Outbreak of fire (21 June 2018 Pt 2 of 2)

Full transcript

00:00:04 yes mr. Willet Thank You mr. chairman mr. chairman I'm going to call the very first of the inquiries factual witness statements mr. Andrew Bell good

00:00:15 statements mr. Andrew Bell good afternoon mr. bell I think first of all you should be sworn I do solemnly sincerely and truly

00:00:27 I do solemnly sincerely and truly declare and affirm that the evidence I shall give shall be the truth the whole truth the whole truth

00:00:42 are you comfortable standing up yes thank you separate Thank You mr. Bell could we stop by you're giving the inquiry your full name Andrew John Bell and your current rank at the London Fire

00:00:55 and your current rank at the London Fire Brigade Deputy Assistant Commissioner when did you join the London Fire Brigade September 1993 and could you just give us please a very brief summary

00:01:07 just give us please a very brief summary of your career to date I joined in 1993 as I recruit firefighter our state bid London Fire Brigade in the role of firefighter to 1996 I then transferred to East Sussex fire

00:01:19 I then transferred to East Sussex fire and rescue where I stayed until 2011 I performed the roles of firefighter through to station manager with that service I've seen seconded to the Fire and Rescue Service national resilience

00:01:30 and Rescue Service national resilience team in 2011 I stayed there until 2013 when I rejoined London Fire Brigade I then went on to comment against the national resilience assurance team in 2015 and then rejoined on the fire

00:01:43 2015 and then rejoined on the fire brigade again as Deputy Assistant Commissioner in October 2016 thank you very much now you have provided to the inquiry a witness statement I think yes

00:01:55 inquiry a witness statement I think yes which you should have in front of you and the relativity reference to that document is lfb zero zero zero zero three five eight eight and we have it

00:02:08 three five eight eight and we have it there on the screen if you could please turn to the second page of that document you will see a printed statement of truth with a signature in it is that

00:02:20 truth with a signature in it is that signature yours it is and it's date of the 14th of June 2018 have you read this statement recently not since I've given it okay and at the time that you gave it

00:02:33 it okay and at the time that you gave it did you think believe that its contents were true absolutely and can you confirm the truth of the contents now for the inquiry yes thank you very much now that statement the Canada's do you want us to

00:02:45 statement the Canada's do you want us to be able to read it on the screen no I think I will try happy to let that go formally into the record mr. chairman happy for me too don't do that that yes it's just that if

00:02:57 don't do that that yes it's just that if you wanted us to be able to read the text in my case that these two don't have to be magnified which I believe it has to be very good I'm content to let you know let you read that to yourself

00:03:09 you know let you read that to yourself and we'll then I'm going to proceed on the basis of that as a document is written is read into the record rather than mean reading it aloud or asking you to do skills to them so that is the

00:03:20 to do skills to them so that is the statement you've confirmed it's true so it's in evidence can I start by asking you about the your current role at the London Fire Brigade what is that my parent role is the head

00:03:31 what is that my parent role is the head of the Grimm felt our investigation and review team otherwise known as GT IRT absolutely and can you please just tell me who commissioned that investigation

00:03:43 me who commissioned that investigation the London Fire Commissioner Danny cotton Danny cotton and when did she commissioned it in the days after the Granville town father and when did

00:03:54 the Granville town father and when did you start your work probably about a week afterwards but the formal establishment of the team was the beginning of July 2017 and how

00:04:07 beginning of July 2017 and how independent is it from the day-to-day work of the London Fire Brigade completely independent so I have an independent role or report to no one I

00:04:19 independent role or report to no one I have a work outside of the normal business processes and governance arrangements within London Fire Brigade in order to maintain their independence thank you

00:04:28 thank you and in summary what work has your team done so far to date so far today the establishment of the team and the terms of reference which includes that

00:04:40 of reference which includes that establishment of Independence agree in the ways of working both with yourselves as the inquiry and operation north Lee the Metropolitan Police's Criminal Investigation and we have protocols with

00:04:53 Investigation and we have protocols with them around the handling of witnesses and information sharing with them excuse me

00:05:02 me so the gathering and collating of evidence we believe to be relevant to both your inquiry and the criminal investigation and the completion of our own statutory duty to review our own performance and then the review of that

00:05:14 performance and then the review of that that evidence has been ongoing since July thank you very much now it is will is about to be a matter of record that

00:05:25 is about to be a matter of record that you produced the operational response document report date of the 24th of May 2014

00:05:39 and the relativity reference to that please

00:05:46 please LF being zero zero zero zero one nine one four can I just ask you one or two questions about that document mr. bell

00:05:57 questions about that document mr. bell because in summary what does that document do so that document aims to deduce a factual account of what we understand based on the evidence we have

00:06:08 understand based on the evidence we have available at this time as to what happened on the night both the actions of the fire fighters and commanders on the ground and the decisions behind those actions who compiled this document

00:06:23 those actions who compiled this document I have a team of investigators working to review the evidence and they have produced the timeline which is informed to that document have you reviewed this

00:06:35 to that document have you reviewed this document yourself I have have you sought to satisfy yourself that its contents are true and accurate within the allowances for error expressly referred to in it I have did you sample test the

00:06:48 to in it I have did you sample test the times and events described against the source data referred to in it yes and having done that mr. Bell how confident are you that the facts described in it

00:06:59 are you that the facts described in it allowing for the tolerances described in it are true and accurate they are true and accurate but I would ask the chair in yourself to note that we have used CCTV footage extensively to corroborate

00:07:12 CCTV footage extensively to corroborate the evidence that's provided in witnessing and contemporaneous notes there are a number of individuals that have reviewed that CCT evidence and in terms of the timing you might understand

00:07:25 terms of the timing you might understand quite naturally some of those have replied a a different time as to when they're describing or applying a time to a series events some of them all have done that right at the start of that series events that describe some of

00:07:37 series events that describe some of a few seconds into that series of events very good so ok see if I've understood your evidence and that the time stamp is

00:07:48 your evidence and that the time stamp is this right listed or identified in the operational response report for each event where it's identified to relate to a CCTV snapshot and a particular camera

00:08:01 a CCTV snapshot and a particular camera that time is the start of a sequence is this right in which the facts described occur generally are generally it will be the start of that sequence but that

00:08:12 the start of that sequence but that might be a few seconds here and there in terms of the document itself is to produce is to help me deliver my own statue to do to review my own performance or the organization's own

00:08:24 performance or the organization's own performance the forensic analysis that I know that you the you are now applying to it may mean that some of those series of events may be a few seconds out very

00:08:35 of events may be a few seconds out very good and who verified the identity of each firefighter on the CCTV footage where they are identified in the ORR so that's generally done through team

00:08:47 that's generally done through team knowledge the the team will review that CCTV footage extensively through their own knowledge they are able to generally identify the majority of firefighters in

00:09:01 identify the majority of firefighters in order to to assure ourselves around that they then go through a series of checks so they actually check out and staff the tendons recording system to check that individual actually was on duty we then

00:09:14 individual actually was on duty we then check through the short incident report to make sure that that individual and the appliance was actually on scene at the time and then every member of London Fire Brigade has a an ID photo they have

00:09:25 Fire Brigade has a an ID photo they have all been collated and stored as crews and then we check the the provisional identification of that individual against their ID photo I see and was the

00:09:37 against their ID photo I see and was the individual CCTV snapshot referred to in the report actually verified with each firefighter firefighter has described know the

00:09:49 firefighter has described know the general terms mr. bell how reliable would you say the identification is I'm confident that in most cases is absolutely reliable thank you well we're we're we're we are not sure around we

00:10:02 we're we're we are not sure around we haven't named that individual and you'll see that in the report we describe a firefighter rather than a man an individual and that because we're not hundred percent sure the identification of that individual yes now you mentioned

00:10:13 of that individual yes now you mentioned a moment ago this something called the short incident log yep which is a document which is being disclosed I think recently and it's under relativity reference met zero zero zero one three

00:10:24 reference met zero zero zero one three eight three zero could you just describe that document and explain what it is so the short engineering report is a is a as you might expect a summary of a long

00:10:35 as you might expect a summary of a long incident report even the short incident report for grant felt our numbers nearly 400 pages the long incident report is many more the short injury report

00:10:46 many more the short injury report reduces or removes a number of system generated logs and I have some examples here if that's helpful to you please please so system generated logs such as confirmation that actions have been

00:10:58 confirmation that actions have been completed by the incident turn out to Gulf 36 which would become a Smith fire station for Gulf 362 Hammersmith pump has been completed the log of action

00:11:09 has been completed the log of action plans being implemented within control various actions are automatically geranium generated by the vision system and the long incident report world will

00:11:21 and the long incident report world will will record those actions and then confirmation that the resourcing requirements have been met each incident type generates a predetermined

00:11:32 type generates a predetermined attendance and when that predetermines attendance is actually on Sina confirmed on scene it will generate a system log to say that the resourcing requirements have been met things like that are taken

00:11:43 have been met things like that are taken out of the lawn report right so just by way of example you gave a moment ago we didn't see on the screen I wonder if mr. trial director you could go to page 8 of this document and mr. Bell I just want to see

00:11:57 document and mr. Bell I just want to see if I can ask you to clarify or explain the answer you just gave my reference to a particular entry now here on the on the screen we've got half way down this

00:12:09 the screen we've got half way down this is page 8 of this document under appliances call sign see sign G 2 7 2 and then 2 7 1 we see that yeah that's

00:12:22 and then 2 7 1 we see that yeah that's been blown up and we see station still g27 that's North Kensington it is and and then across the page if you could just explain what those entries are for

00:12:35 just explain what those entries are for us so as you said I'll start right at the left so the callsign is the first 3 parts of that so Gulf is the area where

00:12:46 parts of that so Gulf is the area where North Kensington originated - 70s Gulf is north Kensington's station number and the 1 or the 2 relates to either it being a pump or a pump ladder the station is replicated

00:13:00 pump ladder the station is replicated again 57 that's the call sign for the station in general status 1 means they're mobile and available or they are available for call the next one initial

00:13:12 available for call the next one initial I'm not entirely sure that means so I won't try to answer that assigned is the point where vision and the control operator assigns those individual

00:13:23 operator assigns those individual appliances to an incident mobile is the time they booked themselves enroute to that incident on scene is the time they arrive so stated straight and then the

00:13:36 arrive so stated straight and then the available is when they leave that incident thank you very much and you we've got status one and you just described status 3 is on scene what is status - status Turley's when

00:13:47 what is status - status Turley's when they book mobile and on route to that instinct you thank you very much we can place that document down

00:13:54 down can I ask you then about get back to your low are are the operational yes report I'm in there we will see some timings of nine nine

00:14:07 we will see some timings of nine nine nine poodles I just want to ask you about those and by reference to an example to take first example which is mr. kuberdas call of zero zero 54:29 on the 14th of June 2017

00:14:22 zero zero 54:29 on the 14th of June 2017 where it appears in the ORR what is that time so might be a useful to you to explain how the system works all 999

00:14:34 explain how the system works all 999 calls originate actually at the BT exchange to start with BT then moves that call through to to a forum rescue service if that's what the non online

00:14:45 service if that's what the non online caller is asked for it comes in to London Fire Brigade verse in via our integrated communication control system or all X and and that's where this the

00:14:56 or all X and and that's where this the control room operator answered the call by the X when that call is answered the vision system which is our mobilizing system then opens a call collection full

00:15:08 system then opens a call collection full which is recorded then in vision the vision system itself and the data within the vision system is not accessible to all members of London Fire Brigade it's

00:15:19 all members of London Fire Brigade it's a live system and therefore we don't allow access to it generally beyond control and our information management team so therefore we use a application

00:15:32 team so therefore we use a application because called Desktop viewer which is accessible across all of our RT system the time the call is answered that time

00:15:43 the time the call is answered that time is recorded in vision and displayed on the boss desktop viewer that is the time that we have applied to each of those called

00:15:51 called and you call the desktop view of something how's it boss right and boss is what is that it's trade name or that's his trade name I believe okay thank you very much now in

00:16:03 believe okay thank you very much now in the case of call handlers who are operating in the brigade control yes how have you identified the control room

00:16:16 have you identified the control room officer who handles any particular 999 call so within the control room there are a number of individual workstations when when the control rooms staff come

00:16:28 when when the control rooms staff come on duty at the start of their shift they are assigned to a role and they are assigned to a workstation they sign in to that workstation with their own details and vision then recognizes all

00:16:39 details and vision then recognizes all of the actions that are that come out of that workstation yes thank you very much finally I just want to ask you about the

00:16:52 finally I just want to ask you about the telemetry information that we have and there's a schedule that was produced under cover of a statement from mr.

00:17:05 under cover of a statement from mr. Malcolm Stanton yes I'll give the relativity reference all that and the reference is lfb zero zero zero zero

00:17:18 reference is lfb zero zero zero zero three five eight seven and it has a number of extracts or exhibits and extracts and those are I'll just give the relativity references say that they

00:17:32 the relativity references say that they are read into the record mr. Bell appreciate on you won't have any questions or answers I still have questions Ben hey no answers as a result of this reading in the rip the references are lfb 0 0 0 0 3 5 8 3 3 5 8

00:17:49 references are lfb 0 0 0 0 3 5 8 3 3 5 8 2 3 5 8 6 3 5 8 4 3 5 8 1 & 3 5 8 5 in all cases preceded by 4 0

00:18:00 all cases preceded by 4 0 so I've read those formally into the record together with mr. Staunton's witness statement now in relation to that there is the telemetry data which

00:18:13 that there is the telemetry data which is lfb zero zero zero zero three one one five and it's there on the screen could

00:18:27 five and it's there on the screen could you please explain to us what that document is whether it would help us exactly if we could see at least a section of it rather larger so that we

00:18:39 section of it rather larger so that we can follow your explanation I think you've now got it actually that's that's it yeah we may have to move across the page which a spreadsheet that so as part

00:18:50 page which a spreadsheet that so as part of our collection and collation of data that has involved retrieving the electronic data stored within each individual be a set or breathing apparatus set of which we took the data

00:19:03 apparatus set of which we took the data from over a thousand breathing apparatus sense and a number of entry control boards which incorporate incorporates a telemetry system each each set of data

00:19:18 telemetry system each each set of data that comes from each individual set is collated and and sitting behind the spreadsheet that we're looking at now or our number of individual records that

00:19:29 our number of individual records that and this document is a summary of those individual records produced together and and as you'll see it's in half an hour time slots but it replicates the

00:19:40 time slots but it replicates the individual and relevant data from each of the collection from each individual breathing apparatus set so each set has

00:19:51 breathing apparatus set so each set has a separate identification yes number yes which is shown on the left and you can tell which station it was operated from we can do at the time so that has taken

00:20:04 we can do at the time so that has taken some investigation so each safeties are identified as either standard duration breathing apparatus shown in column a each one of those 6000 that then has an individual number those

00:20:17 that then has an individual number those sets don't necessarily stay with a station for eternity after they're issued there they go back to a central place for servicing but a record is held

00:20:28 place for servicing but a record is held within the protective equipment group who do that serving servicing as to where that set is located at the time and that station each of these individual sets has a hard copy be a

00:20:42 individual sets has a hard copy be a logbook with it and a part of the data retrieval ninety-degree download the electronic data whether within also took photographs of the individual logbook

00:20:55 photographs of the individual logbook and that that data helped us identify where each set and confirm where each set was located in terms of the station would help them to go right across yet

00:21:07 would help them to go right across yet it's a particular look yes exactly if you could just show us the next section okay I'm going to get left-to-right within the spreadsheet so if we can just move we go back to the original

00:21:18 move we go back to the original left-hand column thank you then we have the station okay there we go SD VA stands for standard duration breathing apparatus and further down

00:21:30 breathing apparatus and further down your document you'll see the ones that colored orange are are denoted edy bi which stands for extended duration breathing apparatus yes the second column is the individual serial number

00:21:41 column is the individual serial number of that breathing apparatus set then you have a station if known and then the wearer if known and could you please explain the different color bands for each of the pairs of wearer's or groups

00:21:52 each of the pairs of wearer's or groups of wares that we see as we go down so that is a piece of work that's been done not by the BA analysis and analyst himself but by the operational response

00:22:03 himself but by the operational response investigation team and that is to denote the individual teams so for example their back to being Brown identified is between

00:22:12 between - who went in if you look further down - columns to rows 23 you'll see there there is a crew of five starting the wolf window known ending and with

00:22:23 wolf window known ending and with Gallagher and they those colors are only two to identify those individual teams so where they are linked by color they have been committed as a group as a

00:22:34 they have been committed as a group as a group from Ridge head that's it thank you and the next column across just take this very quickly vehicle charger disconnected what does that what does that say that is the point of the BAC is

00:22:47 that say that is the point of the BAC is removed from its housing within the appliance and that is captured on the electronic data system held within the body guard unit on the individual bios a very good and where as we see if the

00:22:58 very good and where as we see if the Christopher dog you it's in red can you tell us what that is so that will be one of the that will be an anomaly and under and you would have to ask mr. Stanton to

00:23:11 and you would have to ask mr. Stanton to explain that anomaly but there are as you might imagine in in any of these types of technical systems certainly not anonomys that will arise very good and moving across then further across the

00:23:23 moving across then further across the page to the right hand side if we look at column G switch on button is I think probably self-explanatory yeah is it that is at a point where if you press

00:23:34 that is at a point where if you press the left hand button on the body guard that will switch on that body guard unit right and then can you explain the next column colored in green in my space green khaki green green tally out what

00:23:47 green khaki green green tally out what is tally out me so the tally so there is an individual tally for for that breathing apparatus set the tally fits into the body guard unit and when an

00:23:58 into the body guard unit and when an individual is committed into into the hazard area that tally is removed from the body guard unit which arms a bodyguard unit and is then placed within an entry control board and and that time

00:24:10 an entry control board and and that time that you see there highlighted in green the time that that tally was taken out so that would have been at the time the individual got to the bridgehead and reported to the energy control officer right and then initial pressure is so

00:24:26 right and then initial pressure is so that let's get back and ask good questions yes on tally out so tally out would be the time you say he reports to the entry control officer it will be the exact time he removes the tally from the

00:24:37 exact time he removes the tally from the bodyguard unit so that should be in most cases at the point he arrives at the bridgehead and and goes to the entry control officer cos the bridgehead will be within a what we call a safe air

00:24:49 be within a what we call a safe air environment yes so he doesn't require a recipe to protection at that point and just say we're clear back not the time is it that the VA where either goes under air or leaves the bridgehead no

00:25:03 under air or leaves the bridgehead no right then let's move across the page column I initial pressure that's probably self-explanatory but so at the point he removes the tallien arm to the bodyguard and and the be a set is

00:25:15 bodyguard and and the be a set is switched on and charged with air that is the pressure that's recorded within the be a set at that point thank you and then column J logged on to ECB could you

00:25:26 then column J logged on to ECB could you please explain what that is so that is the point that the tally having been removed from the bodyguard is placed into under the slots in the entry control board and the telemetry signal between the be a set and the engine

00:25:40 between the be a set and the engine control board is established and then I think is it fair to say that in most cases that is within a few seconds or a minute perhaps of the tally out yes and

00:25:52 minute perhaps of the tally out yes and where there are differences we will have to explore those then you have column K the highest breathing rate so as I said there isn't an individual record associated with that breathing apparatus

00:26:04 associated with that breathing apparatus where that has been downloaded from what from the information that he's downloaded that is a record there of the highest breathing rate by that individual and that column has

00:26:16 by that individual and that column has been added for my benefit really because this was such a large be a deployment probably the largest be a deployment we've ever seen in within the UK he's

00:26:29 we've ever seen in within the UK he's getting us a a set of data and statistics that I suspect will never be replicated and that data will be useful in terms of identifying physiological

00:26:41 in terms of identifying physiological impact on firefighters and allow manufacturers to maybe challenge their assumptions around what maximum breathing rates can be going forward in

00:26:52 breathing rates can be going forward in terms of rate could you just explain what the number represents of you if you had so it represents liters per minute liters per minute yeah so the breathing apparatus set the nominal the nominal

00:27:03 apparatus set the nominal the nominal value for breathing is 50 liters per minute and as you can see there on occasions that was much higher and if you could then please go to column L

00:27:15 you could then please go to column L tally in to bodyguard could you please explain what that is so after the firefighters been deployed and he comes back to the bridgehead and reports the

00:27:26 back to the bridgehead and reports the entry control officer his tallies return to him and generally that tally would be immediately placed back into the bodyguard and not recorded what would

00:27:42 bodyguard and not recorded what would that tell us if it shows that the the tally when removed when taken from the entry control board was not immediately

00:27:55 entry control board was not immediately put back into the tally or the individual when he got back into safe air and shot he sat down didn't actually retrieve his tally and I think that's an indication of the of the state of some

00:28:10 indication of the of the state of some of the individual VI whereas when they came out

00:28:12 came out that environment that they weren't in a position to do what they would normally do on the normal procedures which was be to report the entry controlled officer received the Italians shut the set down in the normal way right I'm gonna have

00:28:23 in the normal way right I'm gonna have to ask ask them about that then a column n final pressure you just explained so at the point the the be a set is shut

00:28:34 at the point the the be a set is shut down that is the the pressure left within the set at that point so they start off with somewhere between 240 and 300 but and that pressure there is as

00:28:49 300 but and that pressure there is as you can see the top one is is eighty bar which again is below where we would normally expect them to come out so they can I alert at eighty four bar which

00:29:01 can I alert at eighty four bar which suggests whom they are getting to a low pressure position a seventy four bar plus minus five bar I actually get a low pressure warning whistle that continually sounds normal procedure is

00:29:14 continually sounds normal procedure is for an individual to be out of the hazard area by the time they get to the point of eighty four bar yes thank you

00:29:25 point of eighty four bar yes thank you and then the next column is n end of where time could you just explain how that so that's is that is a point in time where the individual stops breathing and that gets recorded so

00:29:37 breathing and that gets recorded so there will be a point that say they removed the mask and and closed down the set so it's the last recorded breath that's taken before the set is shut down and that's that point in time and then

00:29:50 and that's that point in time and then the next one column o bodyguard slips off tally well so that is just switch off the bodyguard unit by there's a button on the right of the unit you

00:30:01 button on the right of the unit you press that button and that is the time that that bodyguard has been switched off right and then : P logged off modem shut down and what's

00:30:13 logged off modem shut down and what's that

00:30:14 that so that is the point that the BA set has logged off of the telemetry system so it's at a point where the entry control board is no longer talking to the be a

00:30:25 board is no longer talking to the be a set and recording the data and where it's not recorded what what can one tell from that that has been where the set

00:30:37 from that that has been where the set hasn't been shut down in in line with the agreed procedure so that is probably where the air the air supply within the set has not been shut off at that point and that set has been moved away that's

00:30:50 and that set has been moved away that's happy the tally has gone back in the set hasn't been shut down the entry control board continues to try and talk to the individual be a set once it gets out of range

00:31:01 range it in as you can see there it would say not recorded yes and air used it's a thing self-explanatory it's in bars yes

00:31:12 thing self-explanatory it's in bars yes that's a we say that will be from the point the initial the initial amount and and the calculation around how what the final pressure was until until the end

00:31:24 final pressure was until until the end of where time till the end of words on and then finally column are the duration of where what is that what is the measure of that duration so that would be at a point that will be the point

00:31:37 be at a point that will be the point between they start breathing under air and late and then they at the end of where time very good okay thank you very much and just for completeness is saying

00:31:49 much and just for completeness is saying you mentioned that lower down the document there were different colors for EDB a yes

00:31:55 EDB a yes can you just identify where on the screen we see examples of a colored orange there so there we go and yeah so lot so right 39 there 3

00:32:09 and yeah so lot so right 39 there 3 a43 or identify this extended duration breathing arthritis sets thank you very much Don specific vehicles within London Fire Brigade

00:32:27 mr. bell mr. bell thank you very much indeed mr. Chairman I hadn't got any further questions for mr. Bell unless you have know I've been asking mine as we went along so that's fine thank you very much indeed I'm going to give the rebels

00:32:39 indeed I'm going to give the rebels Thank You mr. chairman that concludes the evidence for the day and I'm in your hands as to where we go next with our

00:32:50 hands as to where we go next with our next witness is mr. doughten and we're proposing to take on Monday morning would you like to break this I'm going to be the most convenient course to take yes well we'll have a rather early

00:33:02 yes well we'll have a rather early finish for the day but other things that people can do so we will break now and we'll resume on Monday more money more the ten o'clock on this otherwise advise

00:33:13 the ten o'clock on this otherwise advise yes please yes good thank you

00:33:27 you