Hannah Wahhabi gives evidence - survivor from flat 66 and bereaved aunt of Abdul Aziz Al-Wahhabi's family (5 killed). Describes chaotic aftermath, false 'safe list' giving false hope, RBKC interview 'absolutely disgusting', four key workers allocated without knowing each other, and 18 months in one unsuitable hotel room that 'broke my family'.
00:00:24 uh
00:00:31 yes mr islam now you have another witness for us i think i do can i call miss wahhabi please thank you very much
00:00:48 good afternoon miss mohave good afternoon uh you're going to take the oath i think is that right yes there should be a quran there by you on the table could you take it your right hand and read the words on the screen please
00:00:59 and read the words on the screen please i swear by allah that the evidence i shall give shall be the truth the whole truth and nothing but the truth thank you very much all right sit down please and make yourself comfortable
00:01:12 all right we can take this quite slowly so you'll relax as far as you can yeah thank you yeah all right yes resistant thank you thank you very much for attending today
00:01:23 thank you very much for attending today to give your evidence to the inquiry and assist us with our investigations by way of introduction please try and keep your voice up so the transcriber over there can hear what you're saying
00:01:34 over there can hear what you're saying and so that we can capture it on the transcript it also helps to say yes or no rather than not yeah if any of my questions are unclear please let me know and i'll ask them in a different way
00:01:46 them in a different way and if at any point you need to stop for a break or anything like that please let us know and we will make those arrangements oh well thank you you've made three statements to the
00:01:57 you've made three statements to the inquiry the first is dated the 18th of april
00:02:01 april 2018.
00:02:02 2018. if we could go to that statement please it's iws
00:02:06 it's iws 6074
00:02:11 and if we could go to page 21
00:02:16 can you confirm that that's your signature
00:02:19 signature yes that's my signature thank you and if we could turn to your second statement please dated the 22nd of october 2018 that's iws 401146
00:02:31 and if we could turn to page 10 of that statement
00:02:35 statement can you confirm that that is your signature that is also my signature thank you and if we can turn to your third statement which is dated 26th of february 2020
00:02:47 26th of february 2020 which is iws 40171
00:02:51 and if we could go to page 18 of that statement please can you confirm that that is your signature yes it is and have you had the opportunity to read all of those statements recently i have and can you
00:03:02 statements recently i have and can you confirm that the contents are true to the best of your knowledge thank you
00:03:07 thank you i'm going to ask you some background questions first yes you were a resident at flat 66 of grenfell tower at the time of the fire and you had lived there since 2001 is
00:03:19 and you had lived there since 2001 is that right that's correct and you lived there with your former husband and your two children is that correct that's correct your brother abdul aziz al-wahhabi lived
00:03:31 your brother abdul aziz al-wahhabi lived in flat 182 with his wife fawzia al-wahabi and their three children yasin nur huda and mahdi is that right that's right and they tragically perished in the fire yes they
00:03:42 tragically perished in the fire yes they did
00:03:44 did now going to ask you some questions about the night of the fire on the 14th of june
00:03:51 of june you gave evidence in phase one of the inquiry where you told us about your escape from the fire we know from the cctv cctv image you were shown that you left the tower at 121 is that right that's correct
00:04:05 121 is that right that's correct and after leaving the building is it correct that you and your family remained at the scene until it got light outside that's also correct during this time you outline in your statement that you made a number of
00:04:17 statement that you made a number of calls to your brother is that right that's correct do you remember roughly how many hours you were outside of the tower fall
00:04:27 many hours many many hours i'm not sure exactly what time uh
00:04:34 yeah we were there all day all day literally all day okay and how would you describe the atmosphere during those early hours on the scene uh chaotic very chaotic um
00:04:47 the scene uh chaotic very chaotic um uh we're in shock a lot of us are in shock
00:04:51 shock felt surreal and felt like i was watching a movie and it wasn't actually happening
00:04:56 happening and during your time outside of the tower was there anyone from rbkc the tmo or other official presence providing information about where to go or what to do
00:05:08 do no
00:05:09 no no the only presence that that was there was the police um and i do remember them ushering us further back um
00:05:20 um yeah and then there was at one point where i wrote by one of the policemen had a notepad and i remember giving our names to the policemen
00:05:29 policemen thank you and there's a reference in your statement um where you mentioned seeing somebody from the tmo yes i'm going to take you to paragraph 26 of your second statement please
00:05:42 it should come up on your screen in just a moment okay
00:05:51 and you say during the night of the fire and the next day on 14th of june 2017 i didn't notice anyone from rbkc or kctma taking charge of the situation the community organized
00:06:02 of the situation the community organized itself
00:06:03 itself i did see someone who said that he was there to represent the ksetmo he was wearing a lanyard with a name badge but i don't remember his name i saw him at the end of walmar road
00:06:15 i saw him at the end of walmar road towards the rugby portobello club i told him the names of my family and he wrote down their names and my mobile number on his notebook i asked him to get back to me but he never
00:06:27 if we could just turn over please but he never did i didn't see anyone from rbkc or tmo until much later that day
00:06:36 day do you remember roughly when you saw this person from the tmo um
00:06:43 i would probably say it was still dark it was still dark but it was approaching it was explosion light but it wasn't quite light just yeah
00:06:52 yeah um
00:06:53 um yeah so i'm not sure exactly what time though okay to be honest and did the person you spoke to tell you what he was going to do with the information about your family that you provided no no
00:07:04 no and i didn't i i kind of volunteered that information about my family and he wrote them down wrote it down
00:07:10 down and i asked him to get back to me said he would but which he didn't but it was it was more of me telling him as a him as opposed to him asking me thank you
00:07:18 thank you and did he give you any information about what to what to do where to go any rest centers or anything like that nothing
00:07:26 nothing i'm now going to ask you some questions about the rugby club and is it right that at some point in the morning of the 14th you went to the rugby club i did yeah and are you able to say roughly what
00:07:38 and are you able to say roughly what sort of time that was um
00:07:41 um it was still quite dark my nephew's the one my nephew anna scamhi is the one who actually um organized the rugby club to be opened
00:07:49 be opened he um
00:07:51 he um had booked the place before for his own like his wedding he had a reception in the rugby club and he had contacts i believe the gentleman was called chris he knocked on his door and and asked him and said there's people outside can we
00:08:02 and said there's people outside can we open their own club to let people in so they're not out on the streets um i know anna's when it was because of one of the was the first family member from my family that was on the scene to come and support us um
00:08:13 um he it was still dark when he went when he went to have it open but i i didn't go into the rugby club immediately because i needed to see where my family were my brother and his wife and his children and i just
00:08:25 wife and his children and i just couldn't i couldn't um leave knowing that they hadn't gone out yet so although the rugby club was opened and people began to to to use the space um
00:08:36 to to use the space um and be in the rugby club i i just couldn't go in for a while i didn't go in until much later it was it was daylight had been that's when i went in yeah okay and do you remember whether the conversation with the person that you
00:08:48 conversation with the person that you just mentioned with the tmo member was before or after you went to the rugby club before i went to robbie club
00:08:57 and at the rugby club were you aware of a list of safe and missing residents that had been started by members of the community so when i went into the rugby club um i can't remember her name's jan the lady she works at the rugby club
00:09:10 the lady she works at the rugby club um
00:09:11 um we i just said like we've just come out the tower there was no like immediate list right straight away um and then she said oh maybe let's write you know she kind of suggested let's write a list of those if you've come out and said would you like to
00:09:22 come out and said would you like to write your name so i did write my name then i took upon myself to say to her my family haven't come up can't come out can we
00:09:29 can we write a list of people that were missing and so we then made correctly two lists there was one list of people that come out and then another new list that we've created with my family's name first on there to say who
00:09:41 there to say who who we were still looking for um
00:09:44 um and then as time went on somehow there was confusion and those lists must have merged together because we then were given information that our family were on the safe list they called it the safe list
00:09:55 it the safe list um that's what that's so there was a bit of a mistake about that i think the list must have somehow been put together i don't know if anybody else added their their who people they were waiting for i know that
00:10:06 people they were waiting for i know that i did i didn't see any other names after my family but there was a list of people who came out later on um uh
00:10:14 uh um william thompson edwin defan and um mahad i don't know his ceremony they created a big massive list within the rugby club and the big sheets of paper so we could just write who we were still looking you
00:10:26 just write who we were still looking you know who was out people looking for so that was done by the community by those by survivors themselves yes now you've told us that at some point the lists became confused and your
00:10:37 the lists became confused and your family members were listed on the safe list yes
00:10:40 list yes how did that make you feel when you saw that
00:10:44 that i remember being in the hotel when that happened and uh we were given again it was just word of mouth from communities saying that there's a safe list and your family's name are on the list
00:10:54 list uh that safe list was not just a rugby club that's because i think they must have been merging having discussion between the different um community spaces and i think clement clement james as well and the lists were you could find it where you know there
00:11:05 you could find it where you know there were all these lists but they were merging them together and we were given information and i still have text messages where i messaged you know colleagues and you know friends saying this and my family are fine they're on the safest i don't know where they are but they're they're
00:11:18 know where they are but they're they're they're fine um but i just kept waiting for news waiting for news thinking they were they were out and
00:11:24 out and and i was given i know obviously people were in shock and um
00:11:30 um you know i was given information by people somebody who said that they'd seen mehdi uh wearing a gas mask um that was somebody who's you know somebody said they'd literally seen them himself i'd heard from somebody else that my brother came out of the tower and they
00:11:41 brother came out of the tower and they saw him disoriented we got other information saying that yassin was in hospital which is why my family were running around the hospitals so these are information we were given from people saying they spotted them alive it gave us hope and the list the
00:11:53 alive it gave us hope and the list the fact that those lists were together also it gave me hope and then obviously it turned out that they weren't on a safe list and they didn't survive and you've told us about the various
00:12:07 and you've told us about the various miscommunication that was shared about your members of your family in your view what do you think led to inaccurate information being shared the lack of presence from any any uh
00:12:19 the lack of presence from any any uh government you know be it local or you know gen you know local government um central government there was no one there to kind of organize anything it was very chaotic so it was a part it was it was for
00:12:31 it was a part it was it was for people from the community a lot of them being survivors and uh and bereaved themselves just trying to create these lists and people you know you know local residents
00:12:40 residents and they tried their best to do what they could do the fact they were merged it's a human error it was a human error but
00:12:47 but the fact that there was no one there from any authority to support us was was the problem and just taking that one step further what do you think would have prevented inaccurate information being shared
00:12:59 inaccurate information being shared i think
00:13:01 i think one
00:13:03 one obviously having somebody there having somebody something from local authority uh to to to create those lists to they'd have a list so the council knows who lives in those towers they knew who lived in those
00:13:14 towers they knew who lived in those towns they knew that you know i lived in that tower with my ex-husband and my children and my brother lived that he knew they could have had a tick list and kind of ticked off you out or you out and seen but there was none of that so it was left to
00:13:25 there was none of that so it was left to the community to create those lists themselves and the best way they knew how and you've just mentioned that number of your family members attended hospitals do you know whether they were able to
00:13:37 do you know whether they were able to get any information they attended various hospitals i can't remember the names of all of them i've listed them in my statement but the they attend hospitals because that information came from the local
00:13:48 that information came from the local community saying that people had uh had been taken to particular hospitals so i think saint thomas was one of them sent mary's um i can't remember all of them they are in my statement um so
00:13:59 so that was all through word of mouth of where where the ambulances were coming where they were taking people so that's where they went and they did go there and they asked and they questioned but there was they were told
00:14:10 questioned but there was they were told that they weren't there they weren't there especially i think like i said yes we were told that yasin was in a particular hospital somebody said they'd seen him in a bed um
00:14:19 um but like i said people were you know you see things that you think you saw because you just you trumped trauma yes yeah
00:14:28 yes yeah and is it right that you also tried calling the casualty bureau telephone number um yes my family did i didn't personally call them myself i was i was in shock of being a survivor myself and coming out of the tower i was
00:14:40 myself and coming out of the tower i was all the information was being relayed to me and i was asking all the questions and saying go and ask we'll find this go there and all the information was coming with my nieces that were going round to hospitals and they
00:14:49 they called the casualty bureau the number was put up i'm not sure by who whether it was community i'm not sure but but it was just a matter of calling giving the information but you weren't
00:15:00 giving the information but you weren't getting anything back
00:15:04 do you remember when you received any official information about your brother and his family weeks months months
00:15:14 i do remember um
00:15:17 um as you remember the um not immediately i don't know how many days later the um ethelos we had two initial flows um
00:15:26 um um
00:15:28 um jennifer anderson and andrew brown were the two initial uploads that we got and i
00:15:34 i they somehow found my mum's address i know my brother previously lived at my mum's address and maybe that's how they knew where my mum's address was but obviously there were lots of people from the community coming to kind of see the survivors and see you know three
00:15:45 survivors and see you know three families and or didn't know they were bereaved at that point it was quite a busy place so then um
00:15:51 um they were they were asked to just meet at my sister's house amina sharon lahi that's where all the meetings took place which is also on lancaster west estate it's not
00:16:00 it's not immediately in front of the tower but you can see the tower from where my sister lived at the time so lots of those meetings took place there and i remember getting information from my sister saying
00:16:12 from my sister saying the
00:16:13 the the detectives are here there to give you information but there wasn't any information they could give us they were just basically coming to ask questions about them asking whether you know they took dna
00:16:24 asking whether you know they took dna from myself my brother amin al wahabi and they um asked us um about their dentist where their which dentist they they went to
00:16:35 dentist they they went to and what were your experiences of the flos that were assigned to you were they responsive to yours and your family's needs
00:16:41 needs their flows that we had were very responsive to us and our needs they tried their best um i mean they didn't have all the information they didn't know they could only tell us what they did know and obviously the things that they couldn't tell us can tell that
00:16:52 they couldn't tell us can tell that things were confirmed but every time they you know they they there was a glimpse of information they made sure they came and met with us face to face um
00:17:01 um yeah
00:17:03 yeah and how would you describe the overall process of trying to find information about your family in the immediate aftermath
00:17:12 it's the worst experience ever it's the unknown it's the unknown we didn't have any information no one could tell us any information for a very long time um
00:17:23 i can't put it into words it was very very difficult we didn't have any information i mean like i said the efflo's came but they didn't it was just i think you took comfort in having somebody that was
00:17:36 from i don't know an authority that was there to kind of you kind of take comfort and authority being there you think that they're here they can give you information or they're they're just there so when there is something they'll come to you but i think we took comfort in having the ethelos but didn't mean
00:17:48 in having the ethelos but didn't mean that we had any information because they didn't have any information to give [Music]
00:17:54 [Music] i now want to return to the 14th of june and ask you some questions about your time at the rugby club is it right that there were rbkc staff members present at the rugby club on the
00:18:05 members present at the rugby club on the 14th of june not initially they weren't they weren't present at all it wasn't until much much later in the day that um i was downstairs um um
00:18:16 um my daughter came out um i wasn't wearing any issues um so people from the community were bringing some things to where because we came out in our pajamas
00:18:27 came out in our pajamas and i remember being downstairs just trying to find a pair of shoes that would fit her um
00:18:33 um and
00:18:34 and uh somebody said this there's um basically um i'll be casey or upstairs about hotel rooms basically accommodation but it wasn't like i didn't get a phone call i've got my i
00:18:45 i didn't get a phone call i've got my i had my mobile number with my mobile phone with me which rbk sierra they have my number um
00:18:52 um so they could have called me and said we're here i never got information from them it wasn't it was just through word of mouth people saying you know what they're there i'll be casey here they're they're they're they're sending people to accommodation and
00:19:03 sending people to accommodation and that's the first i heard of it so i remember my sister taking me upstairs saying because i just wasn't shocked you just like just guide me and say let's you know let's let's go and see what's going on
00:19:14 let's go and see what's going on um
00:19:14 um so we did go but it was very there was no privacy there was literally table another table another table and i'd have a conversation with the rbkc representative and then there's another surviving family right next to me
00:19:25 surviving family right next to me talking about their own um
00:19:28 um you know
00:19:29 you know about themselves so there's no privacy and
00:19:31 and they weren't polite in any way i remember um them saying they were going to put me in a hotel very far out not within rbkc was quite far
00:19:42 was quite far and i remember saying to them um
00:19:45 um this is my area i need to be here i don't know where my brother is and they said i had to take whatever i was given yes and um
00:19:55 and um i remember pleading saying i need to be close and
00:19:59 close and it just happened to something oh actually we've got one here but there was like no eye contact there was no like empathy there was nothing it was very cold
00:20:08 very cold the conversation with the rbk representative my sister sat with me throughout the whole conversation and like i said you could hear what was going on with everybody else so i was given um the hotel and premiere in in on
00:20:20 given um the hotel and premiere in in on west cromwell road i know there's another one in elscore but i was given the one was cromwell road there were i think um
00:20:25 think um three other families there that were always in that hotel with me okay just want to take you to a passage in your third statement please which deals with this and a little bit more detail
00:20:36 with this and a little bit more detail if that's okay it's paragraph 54
00:20:40 you've just covered some of it but just to revisit it you say at this point it's at the bottom should be at the bottom of your screen at this point i was in shock and someone had to guide me up to meet with them i recall
00:20:51 guide me up to meet with them i recall there were maybe three or four people from rbkc set up desks i told rbkc that i needed to stay within the area i was informed that they would give us whatever came up the person
00:21:02 the person went through a tick box interview we were not asked about whether we had access to money food or water or given away to access them the person conducting conducting the
00:21:13 the person conducting conducting the interview was robotic and did not have any empathy the room was very small and there was no privacy you could hear what was being discussed with the other people in the room
00:21:22 room now you've dealt with some of these points already but i just want to ask you some follow-up questions if that's okay
00:21:28 okay did there appear to be a clear system in place for the allocation of emergency accommodation during this interview
00:21:35 interview no
00:21:36 no no no clear system no we were just like cattle coming through and they were like you know that like i said it was a tick box exercise and
00:21:45 and yeah and when you discuss with other survivors and stuff it was just the conversations were very different so it's just i don't think there was any consistency with with the questions or i mean apart from the fact of you know how
00:21:56 mean apart from the fact of you know how many are you in the household or whatever happened wouldn't really make a difference because they put a sword in one room anyway yeah now you've mentioned that there was somebody sitting next to you during your interview but do you remember if there were other people within the room at the
00:22:07 were other people within the room at the same time there was a desk there was a desk
00:22:11 desk that was um that was uh and our um portobello rugby portobello trust representative that was there that was making sure everybody was coming in uh there was a desk that i was um sat at
00:22:23 uh there was a desk that i was um sat at there was another desk there wasn't i think there were about three or four one two
00:22:28 two three or four desks and each desk had an rbk representative behind the table and there was a family in front so all of this was happening in one room and it wasn't a big room at that yes
00:22:43 do you feel that you were treated with dignity and respect in that interview absolutely not
00:22:49 and in your view what should have been done differently by our bkc staff in those interviews with families well you had the there was bigger spaces downstairs in the rugby portobello you could use in bigger spaces or you could have had a
00:23:01 bigger spaces or you could have had a bit more but there was another room next door
00:23:03 door they'll give it a bit more privacy a bit more privacy and i think a bit more humanity and empathy with the way you speak to people we've just come out of a burning building we're looking for our family you know we've got children like with no
00:23:15 you know we've got children like with no shoes on
00:23:16 shoes on you know around our pajamas we're like in shock you know have a bit of empathy for people there was none of that i think the way they conducted themselves was absolutely disgusting thank you
00:23:27 thank you i'm now going to turn to ask you about the emergency accommodation that you were provided and you've told us that you and your family were allocated one room at the premiere in kensington and is it right that was one room for
00:23:39 and is it right that was one room for the four of you and it contained a double bed a single bed and a sofa bed that's correct a small sofa bed it was it was very tight there's four of us in one room yeah these sleeping arrangements suitable for
00:23:50 these sleeping arrangements suitable for you and your family absolutely not we've all you know there's four of us ptsd children who are looking for their cousins and their uncle and aunts you know there's i just remember collapsing and you've
00:24:01 i just remember collapsing and you've got nowhere to collapse you just that's right in front of your children and i remember people my family and friends come to try and support you and um
00:24:10 um you know you've got a bed and you've got this little little area right next to the bed and i just remember i just i kept collapsing and there's no space
00:24:22 and how long were you in that accommodation for 18 months and were you in that same room for that 80 same room for 18 months
00:24:33 80 same room for 18 months in terms of the provision of food is it right that food was provided at set times at breakfast and dinner time initially i didn't know there was any food provision i didn't know i wasn't aware of that at all no one told us there was food provision at all
00:24:45 there was food provision at all so my friends would bring me food we had local community bringing us food um
00:24:51 um the sikh community were very supportive um
00:24:54 um muslim community they were bringing us food to the hotels that's how we were able to eat or i'd um go to my mum's and people from the community were bringing food there as well i didn't know anything about there being food it was my sister
00:25:07 there being food it was my sister asia who passed away a few months ago who went to the hotel manager and said is there anything for my sister to eat because we were fasting and there were particular times of the
00:25:19 and there were particular times of the day that we need to break our fast pixel times a day that we need to um eat before we start our fast that there was no accommodation for that at all what they did say was that the that we had um
00:25:31 that we had um we could have breakfast but to have breakfast
00:25:34 breakfast you had to leave your room you couldn't take anything to europe you had to go in and mix with just people who were staying there having a holiday people weren't having holiday we had to go in the same room breakfast area food space
00:25:46 the same room breakfast area food space and that's where we could get some breakfast and we'd have to eat it there in front of everybody regardless of what we've been through and that's not the hotel's fault that's their system that's all be fault they should have thought about that and they didn't
00:25:57 about that and they didn't um there was no lunch there there was no lunch provided at the hotel there was a dinner service but it was very um a particular time and it was always basically frozen food that they heat up
00:26:08 basically frozen food that they heat up in the microwave and that was it really there's nothing healthy so eventually within time as time went on then we were given um financial support uh to be able to purchase our own food
00:26:20 purchase our own food so we would just get take out this is el's cool
00:26:24 el's cool i mean
00:26:25 i mean there's nothing healthy you can get there to be honest so i put on a lot of weights
00:26:30 weights after
00:26:31 after after the tragedy and i still suffer from um gastro problems now because of the unhealthy food i i consumed within those 18 months that i might at least have an operation now
00:26:42 might at least have an operation now because i've got um quite a few gallstones as a result of unhealthy eating
00:26:49 and you've told us about the timings of the food is it also right that the food was not halal the food was not halal it was not halal and even the vegetarian option there was no
00:27:00 there wasn't much and my children are quite fussy you know that you know they you know they they you know they're used to home cook meal um
00:27:08 um but yeah we couldn't there was nothing it was all frozen the only thing i gave them was fish fingers so they literally had that every single day so that's they had the same food every single day yeah
00:27:19 yeah and overall what impact did the hotel accommodation have on you and your family um
00:27:26 um it broke my family um broke my family my son who still today um struggles with insomnia i was literally walking that you know he being he was 16
00:27:38 you know he being he was 16 you know 16 you know again in the shock he was literally just walking he just walked the streets i mean what's he going to do come and sleep in the same bedroom his mom and dad's in the same bedroom and his sister's there and so he was just walking the streets there was a 24-hour
00:27:50 walking the streets there was a 24-hour tescos he literally used to walk to that test could walk around and cut he just featured walk with streets that's all he did
00:27:54 did um my daughter was in shock so she would literally
00:27:58 literally be stuck to me um she wouldn't let go of me we had to hold hands like it's only been the last two years that she's been able to sleep in a separate bedroom she had to sleep in my bed and i still have to
00:28:10 to sleep in my bed and i still have to have night lights on and everything for her
00:28:12 her but yeah so we'd we'd have to hold hands and and and i remember just her shaking she just continuously shake like a leaf um but yeah um
00:28:21 um it was too much um to my ex-husband at the time so he couldn't stay he couldn't stay he left
00:28:28 he left he went away to morocco to spend time with his family because he just couldn't be there he couldn't be there for us
00:28:38 i'm going to turn now to ask you some questions about financial assistance in paragraph 66 of your second statement we can go to it if we
00:28:49 we can go to it if we we need to yes please
00:29:07 so paragraph 66 you say i recall we were given payments by rbkc i cannot recall how much do you remember whether that assistance that assistance was provided in the
00:29:18 that assistance was provided in the first week following the fire um i can't remember there was one um lady that came i can't was the first week or just after the first week i remember her coming and she gave us i think about 100 and
00:29:29 and she gave us i think about 100 and something pounds in an envelope and then that was it she gave us that in an envelope and she brought a lady with her
00:29:37 her i put in my statement i think it was sarah cheatham or something like that i put her name in there and she said that this is link person and she gave me her number and yeah and that was it really but then that number just wouldn't work anymore
00:29:49 that number just wouldn't work anymore so i didn't even have that content i never heard from the lady again and that was it yeah we'll come on to that in just a second um
00:29:57 um and is it also right that you received uh cash payments from donations from charities yes do you remember if that was in the first week um yes in the um in the first week yes
00:30:08 um yes in the um in the first week yes there was because obviously we didn't you know we left our idea i couldn't access any of my funds i'm always worked i would have had money in my bank to pay for what i needed to pay to to purchase for me my children but i couldn't access those funds
00:30:20 those funds um so i remember human aid coming to uh to the hotel but then again that was i mean i'm not saying that would have happened to everybody it's somebody that i that i know um
00:30:30 um her mum works for them and so it was like we know somebody's happy so they came to the hotel so that's why they came so i'm not sure if that happened to everybody but we did have somebody and i remember giving us maybe a again some money in an envelope and i
00:30:42 a again some money in an envelope and i remember they gave me a prayer mat and a quran
00:30:45 quran thank you
00:30:47 thank you turning briefly to ask you about communication and how information and support was communicated to you did you receive any information from rbkc
00:30:57 rbkc or the tmo about the support available to you such as through leaflets or phone calls within the first week following the fire nothing nothing from them it wasn't until much later that i even it
00:31:09 wasn't until much later that i even it wasn't so much later it was in the sum in the summer break i am i
00:31:15 i was going to visit my sister asia and
00:31:19 and there was a lady who have done this downstairs her and i think they knew that we've been impacted and her daughter said you know kind of had a discussion about who we were and whatever have you and i said i'm just coming to see my sister and she said that her sister was in henry
00:31:31 said that her sister was in henry dickens estates supporting children with art therapy and that we could use that service for my daughter because she was she was struggling so i remember going to henry dickens
00:31:43 so i remember going to henry dickens estate there's a community hall there and i remember some meeting somebody there called malcolm from hestia i remember meeting him there and there was just they were talking about certain support and you know leaflets nice stuff
00:31:54 support and you know leaflets nice stuff don't get any of them we didn't get any leaflets
00:31:56 leaflets at the premiere in i know that there was another premiere in but i don't know if they did but the primary room that we were on western road we didn't get any leaflets nothing i i don't know if that's because there was only like a handful of that there were like four uh one two three fam four
00:32:09 like four uh one two three fam four families there were four families in the hotel that um that i was in and then two of them left to somewhere else there's remained two families in that hotel maybe that's why we didn't get there wasn't a large number of us in that
00:32:20 wasn't a large number of us in that hotel there was no information but i remember malcolm then making contact um because he said he would and he ensured that we then started getting newsletters to that hotel as well
00:32:31 newsletters to that hotel as well and do you remember roughly when that was
00:32:33 was it would have been uh so i would have met malcolm in the summer months august probably september end of august september september maybe tony now to ask you about key worker and
00:32:45 tony now to ask you about key worker and social worker support if i can take you please to paragraph 67 of your first witness statement
00:33:10 so here you say i was not assigned a key worker or anyone i could call from rbkc initially
00:33:16 initially no one from the council came to see if we were okay in the days following the fire they just left us a lady from rbkc eventually came i don't know how many days after the fire she brought another lady with her named
00:33:28 brought another lady with her named sarah cheatham i wrote down sarah's full name and contact number they told me sarah was my link person i contacted her but she stopped responding and i was told she'd been transferred somewhere
00:33:40 told she'd been transferred somewhere else it was all very confused is that what you were referring to briefly earlier that's what i was referring to yes
00:33:46 yes and is it correct that several weeks later you were allocated someone you had met at the rugby club who was a social worker yeah so um somebody again through word of mouth was
00:33:57 somebody again through word of mouth was saying that were told somehow the information got back to one of my sisters saying that at the ugly portobello there were people there supporting with id the passports because obviously we'd lost our past but we didn't have any identification
00:34:09 didn't have any identification and apparently portobello there was um there were people there supporting so we went there that's why i went back to rocky portobello and i met ashley drake there she was supporting and i had
00:34:20 drake there she was supporting and i had my children with me um and um
00:34:24 um and um yeah so we were there and then i met ashley
00:34:27 ashley she was a social worker but she wasn't like key work at that point but then i didn't have any kind of key worker or link worker where they wanted to call them i didn't have anything at all um then there was a meeting at hoben
00:34:38 um then there was a meeting at hoben bars
00:34:40 bars that the felo the fellows used to have some meetings there they took us there and there were i mean the red cross being there to support us and we were there and um because i said to the fellows it was the fellows
00:34:51 to the fellows it was the fellows basically they got us made sure that we had a key worker because nobody else came and asked us and and i'd relay that information to them and i'd heard other people had key workers but we didn't have anybody and then when we went there
00:35:03 and then when we went there um there were people from um i'll be casey there and it turned out they said i had been allocated the key worker there were four allocated to me four i didn't know about either one of them and they didn't know
00:35:15 either one of them and they didn't know about each other they were from different boroughs they weren't rbkc and then ashley drake happened to be there that day as well supporting and she then um
00:35:26 and she then um said you know what you want me to be your key work and i said yes i met her already so it made sense and she'd met my children um so at that point this there was a representative from rb casey who said okay well we'll
00:35:37 from rb casey who said okay well we'll tell the other four not actually drake that they're no longer to be your key worker although i didn't know they weren't mine anyway no one then contacted me so i then remained with ashley drake
00:35:48 so i then remained with ashley drake which was
00:35:49 which was it was good to have somebody we'd met she was very supportive she helped with obviously my children were struggling and she'd help with like school meetings especially for zach because he had to move um because he was in the middle of
00:36:00 move um because he was in the middle of doing his um as levels when when the tragedy happened um so she helped with meetings to transition which was which was a big problem anyway but but we had ashley but ashley wasn't part of the key worker hub
00:36:12 of the key worker hub so we had support but it wasn't adequate support she was good with what she did as a social worker because she's a professional she could she she knew her job but she couldn't
00:36:23 she she knew her job but she couldn't tap into services through rbkc the key worker hub because she wasn't one of them
00:36:28 them it was very very um confusing so there are lots of support services that were offered to families that wasn't offered to my family because ashley drake wasn't part of the key
00:36:39 ashley drake wasn't part of the key worker hub thank you
00:36:42 thank you and overall how would you describe your experience of the key worker system and the support provided to you by the social worker like i said ashley drake did her best she was very
00:36:54 ashley drake did her best she was very supportive um in the best way she could and what and and like this you know the essentials i mean she helped with making sure we had funds to buy food that's what she was allowed to do but anything else we didn't get any of that no
00:37:06 else we didn't get any of that no support i
00:37:08 support i obviously being bereaved and wanted to know where my family was i was i was i was sleeping at the hotel but i was spending the whole day at my mum's trying to get to my mum's obviously she lives in w11 and i was up in near ellis
00:37:20 lives in w11 and i was up in near ellis court
00:37:22 court so i know that i've heard that there was support service with regards to taxi services that could take you to where you needed to go i remember being given um a um
00:37:33 a um tfl like kind of oyster card for us me and
00:37:35 and us as a family individually that we could use that was there for one month and i and they wouldn't give it to us anymore they just said you've got to make your own way and then i'd heard that there was some people who had their
00:37:46 that there was some people who had their own cars i did have my own car they could help with 50 pound a week towards your petrol um so i said okay so i then said instead of paying because you said look i can't have a car um a
00:37:57 have a car um a tfl card and you're saying that i can't have a taxi service that everybody else is getting we weren't allowed it um
00:38:03 um can i can you please just pay that pay the 50 pound towards my petrol for the week because i'm going back and forth quite a few times and
00:38:13 and um
00:38:13 um i was told they would it never ever happened
00:38:16 happened never happened wasn't supported at all with any transport between my mom's house and the hotel or any appointments were meeting fellows or anything it was all on
00:38:25 all on me
00:38:27 me thank you
00:38:28 thank you i'm going to turn now to psychological support
00:38:31 support were you aware of any counselling services or mental health support being available in the first week following the fire no
00:38:41 did you receive and you've touched on this but did you receive any information about this type of support being available whilst you were at your hotel no no not initially i heard later on
00:38:53 no no not initially i heard later on again through word of mouth not through rbkc or any support services i heard much later later on within the weeks i heard that um there was
00:39:03 there was there were therapists or support workers going to hotels again like i said we had there were two of us by this point in the hotel we didn't have anybody coming to our hotel to support us so if you wanted
00:39:14 our hotel to support us so if you wanted to access that support that i only found out through word of mouth i had to then go to another hotel to access that support and i'd already heard from other survivors and bereaved that that was happening just openly in the
00:39:26 that was happening just openly in the meeting in the reception area of hotels there was no privacy and you know we were bereaved i was still trying to find out i didn't have any didn't know where my family were at that point still i think we had maybe one identification in
00:39:37 think we had maybe one identification in the summer and then we had to wait it was until october 2017 that the final identification was that was that was that was confirmed um so there wasn't i'm not going to be traveling to a hotel and then you don't even know if you're
00:39:48 and then you don't even know if you're going to see someone um so again through malcolm at the i had contact with malcolm at this point so malcolm would just he was my contact person i don't think ashley drake knew about any much because again
00:39:59 drake knew about any much because again she wasn't part of the key worker hub and then malcolm put me in touch with um uh so there was david um david bailey who supported my son zach through from cams
00:40:11 through from cams and who actually actually drake ashley drake did organize that but then malcolm supported with um being in contact with therapists who i still see today
00:40:23 still see today um and you should suggest also yeah today so that's the same therapies i see but that was again not through any rbkc that was through you know a community organization that gave me that information yes but like i said i didn't
00:40:35 information yes but like i said i didn't i didn't tap into it i had an assessment but it took a while before you could you know start sessions because not because of the not because i couldn't have sessions at the at st charles because i wasn't in a good place to start them
00:40:46 wasn't in a good place to start them immediately myself yes if i could turn you please to paragraph 84 of your third witness
00:41:04 statement it's just at the bottom of the page and you say people need to understand that time is not a healer myself and my family are still suffering from the physical and mental effects
00:41:15 from the physical and mental effects of the grenfell fire do you feel as though you have been sufficiently supported by way of mental health provision following the fire i like i said i still see my therapist
00:41:27 i like i said i still see my therapist every single week since uh since 2017 so today it's 2022 and i feel that that support is there what i feel is absent isn't the actual the fact i'm having therapy it's the understanding between
00:41:38 therapy it's the understanding between the physical and what mental health does to you physically i feel that there still needs to be some learning um i've been reading a book called the body keeps score
00:41:49 keeps score and your body keeps score after i know i gave evidence in phase one of the inquiry
00:41:54 inquiry and i was walking around as you can see i've had to have adaptations to my feet now but i need to have adaptations but i
00:42:00 i my body was in so much pain uh i know that the way i evacuated impacted my discs which i didn't think about at the time i was just literally fighting and flying because i just needed to know where my family were and
00:42:11 needed to know where my family were and it was
00:42:12 it was a whole long process it wasn't until i you know 18 months later when i went into the hope that i went moved into the property that i was living in and then in june 2019 a week after the second
00:42:24 in june 2019 a week after the second year anniversary i ended up in hospital i couldn't walk i couldn't walk i had to i was bed bound i couldn't go to the bathroom on my own i couldn't do anything and i had to have adaptations at home so
00:42:37 and i had to have adaptations at home so i just think what i'm trying to say is the fact that yes there is support but for counselling and therapy but i don't think there's an understanding of what it does to us not
00:42:49 understanding of what it does to us not just mentally but physically it's physically draining what we've been through and it impacts us where we hold it we we have to hold it because if i didn't hold it i wouldn't be able to have meetings with the with the felos i
00:43:01 have meetings with the with the felos i would be able to come here today i have to hold it when you hold it hurts it hurts physically not just mentally
00:43:12 you just take a moment if you need to miss what happened
00:43:17 thank you
00:43:21 sorry i just wanted to add to that that it's not just my pain it's my children's pain you know my family's pain my family were running around to support me as a
00:43:32 running around to support me as a survivor when they've also lost their brother and their sister-in-law and their daughter-in-law and their nephews and grandchildren you know they were like hannah and she's the one who's the survivor yes i am a
00:43:43 one who's the survivor yes i am a survivor and it hurts but they've also lost
00:43:46 lost they've also experienced pain and then my children who are just in one room and you can imagine the ptsd that i tried to hold and and there you just just feel like i
00:43:59 you just just feel like i feel like as a mother i failed because i couldn't support them
00:44:09 so there's some support but it's not enough thank you
00:44:16 are you okay for me to continue yeah yeah
00:44:20 yeah just want to touch briefly on your experience of the westway center yeah in your statement you say that you visited the westway center at some point to deal with administrative tasks such as getting documents replaced yes
00:44:32 such as getting documents replaced yes do you remember when that visit was was it within the first week no it wasn't in the first week no okay
00:44:39 okay and generally how did you feel about the services that were available at the westway centre again it's something that i found out through word of mouth it wasn't somebody that wasn't some kind of um
00:44:50 some kind of um professional that would have told us me about it it would have been actually i think the fellows that gave us information about that actually but again majority information was given through word of mouth from the community that would share the information with my
00:45:01 that would share the information with my family and who would share it with me um i mean
00:45:07 i mean you had the you know red cross that would allow that that you'd have to kind of
00:45:12 of to be allowed in so you had to go through that process queuing up and waiting and then just saying who you were and saying that every every day you went you'd have to repeat the same process
00:45:22 process and then when you went in i mean i'm i mean i'm thankful that it was there because i was able to get my driver's license i was able to you know transfer my brother who passed aways um
00:45:32 aways um log book into my my surviving brother's name were able to do things like that
00:45:38 so there was there was the services were there
00:45:41 there but it was very exposed it wasn't there was no privacy in it and and you know everything was happening in one space you had you know i don't know vvla in this section you've got somebody from
00:45:52 in this section you've got somebody from housing over here you've got people giving out clothes and food over here and it's just it was it was a lot it was quite overwhelming you walk in and it's like oh my god
00:46:01 oh my god oh my god
00:46:03 oh my god yeah and how did your experience of the west ray compare to your experience of the rugby club for example
00:46:12 example the rank become club was in my opinion the rugby club was was the best place for me they did the best they they could and i felt that it was very community
00:46:23 felt that it was very community orientated and you felt it you felt that people wanted to help you felt that they would try their best they would tell you what's here whereas in the west way there were there
00:46:34 whereas in the west way there were there were things available but you had to ask what was there no one kind of came and told you if you actually saw a sign if they had like you know might say rbc housing it was very um
00:46:46 office style that's what i can think of i know it was open but it wasn't it wasn't um
00:46:51 wasn't um community friendly whereas rugby porter that was very community friendly and just dealing with the community response more broadly how would you describe the support provided
00:47:03 describe the support provided by charities and community organizations in the immediate aftermath first class first class and how did the response of the community compare to the official
00:47:14 community compare to the official response in your view no comparison they were the best and the officials were non-existent
00:47:24 now pleased to ask you a few questions about your observations on the overarching response um in your second statement and we don't need to go to it unless unless you need us to but in paragraph 81 you say
00:47:37 us to but in paragraph 81 you say that alex sharma sajid javid and theresa may all attended to speak to us what are you referring to when you say that so i um alex sharma
00:47:48 when you say that so i um alex sharma came to the west way again that was through i didn't know he was there it was word of mouth that he was there and you could talk he was third about housing to people needed housing but i remember again like i said it was word of mouth it wasn't
00:47:59 of mouth it wasn't and you had to get there a particular time otherwise you're not going to see him
00:48:02 him and i remember it was a bit like animals basically we're literally just trying to fight to get to see him to like it's my housing it's my housing kind of thing and he just stood there he's just waiting there to speak to us
00:48:13 he's just waiting there to speak to us you have to sit there and wait and then if you get to see him you're lucky if you don't come back tomorrow so that's what it was like with alex sharma and i you know and then with sadie javid that was all good
00:48:24 with sadie javid that was all good through the kind of grenfell united that we got to meet sajid javid and that was through so grandfather united was set up quite early on um and i was initially part of the grenfell united group and that's how i got to meet him otherwise i
00:48:35 that's how i got to meet him otherwise i wouldn't have got to meet him um and theresa may again that was again set up through grenfell united it wasn't um
00:48:42 um this wasn't you know these were set up by our people survivors and bereaved that's how we got to have these people come and meet us um
00:48:50 um i mean theresa may when she came she just spoke openly to all of us in um i think it was um the hotel in kaiser kensington um and sacha jabed again was in um
00:49:01 um and sacha jabed again was in um one of the studios we i met with met with him
00:49:04 with him um
00:49:04 um i think the only thing with satya javid he he had there was somebody called hannah ram and his team that because and like i said my son was struggling between you know academically just trying to transfer because he was a kaa which is by the school he couldn't stay
00:49:15 which is by the school he couldn't stay there for obvious reasons so it's trying to find him a new place to go and study and hannah ram so that's one thing i did got from they helped me to secure him a place at
00:49:25 place at phoenix academy which not honestly wasn't great they didn't support with glasgow grenfell anyway so and generally speaking what was your experience of speaking to these officials from central government were they responsive to your concerns overall
00:49:38 they responsive to your concerns overall they um
00:49:39 they um [Music]
00:49:40 [Music] they took the information you never heard back from them the only only person i heard back from was hannah ram about zach's um
00:49:46 um place in phoenix academy transferred from kaa that's the only information i got there was nothing else you didn't get anything about housing even though you went and shared information about housing you didn't get any feedback you'd go and
00:49:58 any feedback you'd go and give the information but nothing will be back come back thank you and if we could turn to paragraph 72 of your third statement please
00:50:18 you say i feel that rbkc massively massively failed us
00:50:24 failed us as a survivor and bereaved it was extremely hard i was dealing with my own shock at what had happened to us and then also with worries about my brother and his family rbkc supported whoever shouted the
00:50:36 rbkc supported whoever shouted the loudest but i am not a shelter and i didn't have the energy i don't have the words to explain how it was
00:50:43 was it was overwhelming
00:50:47 in what ways do you feel that rbkc failed you in every way possible they were not there
00:50:55 there um
00:50:56 um there was no consistency in how they supported people like i just i mentioned already about um transport there wasn't any transport for me my family but there was right there was for other people um
00:51:07 um yeah they they failed they were not there they didn't look for us um i mean even the fact that you know the felos found my mum's property they knew where my my mum lived my brother
00:51:18 knew where my my mum lived my brother had lived there i'll be casey didn't ever go and visit my mum she lost her son she lost her daughter-in-law she lost her grandchildren they never went so there was there was you know there
00:51:29 so there was there was you know there was they didn't look for anybody i mean the only reason why they knew where we were because they had to pay for our hotel accommodation i mean have they either pay or fork any money they wouldn't they don't care they don't care
00:51:40 wouldn't they don't care they don't care and we experienced this way back before the tragedy part of the grenfell compact they didn't care about us so um
00:51:46 so um they failed us they continue to fail us we're still in our homes now and waiting for for repairs to be to be to be um to be done you know repairs that i mean even today now i've
00:51:59 repairs that i mean even today now i've been trying to sort out and organize repairs in my property to be sorted to be fixed
00:52:04 be fixed and
00:52:06 and i just can't there's no there's no contact you don't get any information back and i keep saying i need in i need lisa response because the unknown i struggle with the unknown after what happened to me there's nothing i got a text today before i came to the inquiry
00:52:18 text today before i came to the inquiry saying i hope you're okay would you like to talk today and by the way good luck this afternoon they know i'm coming here and they text me today of all days i'll be casey all over again
00:52:30 i'll be casey all over again thank you
00:52:31 thank you and if we could just go to paragraph 82 of this statement please you say
00:52:37 you say it was clear that rbkc and the government failed us in their response i hope nothing like this ever happens again however there needs to be plans in place which ensure a coordinated response which enables people have
00:52:49 response which enables people have access to the support and services they need
00:52:52 need families should be treated with dignity and you've just touched on this but if there's anything else you'd like to add what lessons do you feel need to be learned from the experience that you and
00:53:04 learned from the experience that you and your family had in the immediate aftermath
00:53:07 aftermath um i've actually written some words to answer this question because i am i mean
00:53:14 i mean thank you for allowing me to take my time to respond to the questions today that has helped um
00:53:19 um but part of my ptsd is i do kind of get tongue twisters sometimes i the simplest vocabulary just you know just go so i wanted to prepare something that i feel comfortable reading and i've got that with me today to answer that this
00:53:30 with me today to answer that this question of course
00:53:43 [Applause]
00:53:47 um thank you first of all thank you very much um
00:53:51 much um so the last time i was asked that question i implored sir martin to ensure there was change i want to thank you and the entire inquiry team for the work you are doing to expose the truth
00:54:02 to expose the truth about the failings that led to 72 preventable deaths including that of my dear brother apple aziz his wife felsia and the beloved children yasin nur and mahdi
00:54:13 yasin nur and mahdi there are some things i'd like to say that go beyond my statements and to some extent also beyond the scope of the inquiry these are not only addressed to you but to everybody working in housing
00:54:25 to everybody working in housing the built environment local and central government first to the community volunteers charities and religious groups who rush to our aid from all over the country and
00:54:37 to our aid from all over the country and the world
00:54:39 the world who were present and supported us in the best way they could words can never express my gratitude thank you for everything you did and continue to do
00:54:50 continue to do i know the authorities be they local or central government may feel that they have contributed the support during the aftermath for me personally and my family this is far from the truth
00:55:02 far from the truth no one from government looked for us no one helped us we were left exposed and vulnerable and when the authorities eventually did come it felt like a tick box exercise
00:55:14 come it felt like a tick box exercise we were treated like numbers not humans this is something that we still feel today
00:55:21 today in my experience in the eyes of local and central government our grenfell and north kent community are second class the people with needs and problems
00:55:33 the people with needs and problems i cannot help but feel that had our community lived in a different part of the borough on the more affluent side had we been from a different class had we been less ethnic
00:55:45 had we been less ethnic the response in the aftermath would have been immediate it would have been present it would have been felt
00:55:52 been felt we may be different we may be diverse but we are people think of the different professions in the tower of the challenges that so many
00:56:03 the tower of the challenges that so many from the bain communities had overcome prior to the fire in 2017 think of the dignity demonstrated by those of us impacted over the last five years
00:56:15 years are human beings we contribute we pay tax we provide leadership in our communities in truth our differences and diversity
00:56:26 in truth our differences and diversity are a contribution to the borough and the country some people think about the aftermath as straight after the fire but the aftermath continues today five years later
00:56:37 years later the aftermath will last for years to come and the impact will be generational you cannot imagine what it is like having no one there to help you
00:56:49 having no one there to help you to give you any glimpse or bit of information anything
00:56:53 anything any strings to hold on to when you don't know what's happened to your loved ones it's torture we experience torture the aftermath was torture it was
00:57:04 the aftermath was torture it was physically and mentally torturing the prime minister promised that we'll be housed in three weeks four of us including my 16 year old son and 88 year old daughter were moved into
00:57:16 and 88 year old daughter were moved into one hotel room a room i remained in for 18 months four individuals who were survivors and bereaved
00:57:24 bereaved can you imagine the ptsd the impact it had on us as a family and that is just me imagine what it is like for all other families bereaved survivors
00:57:38 families bereaved survivors imagine what it is like for my mum she lost her son her grandchildren her daughter-in-law no one checked on her no one asked about her
00:57:49 her and i want to say something about the children they are the most forgotten even when those who had parents lived parents who had lived in the aftermath of the fire the children
00:58:00 aftermath of the fire the children experienced life as if they were orphans we weren't and couldn't be there for our children we couldn't even be there for us
00:58:09 us my body has never experienced so much pain since the 14th of june 2017 physical internal and emotional pain life isn't easy anymore life is a
00:58:20 life isn't easy anymore life is a challenge
00:58:21 challenge fear is constant nightmares never go inner peace is what we yearn for even when we don't feel even when we feel like it's going to be okay it's just a matter of time that a memory
00:58:33 it's just a matter of time that a memory a thought a feeling and experience will interrupt that and then we're back there again
00:58:39 again like it's happening all over again
00:58:43 you may see us smiling at times you may see children laughing but that is just the part that avoids and masks this tragedy has pierced wounds in each and every one of us in ways that one cannot imagine
00:58:56 in ways that one cannot imagine we may now and again put plasters to hide out hide our wounds but they are still there and sometimes many times those plasters fall off to this day the support that we are
00:59:07 to this day the support that we are given is only provided after jumping through hoops whether it's fighting to get house repairs done or get the medical support we need we are forever being asked to prove that we have been impacted forever
00:59:20 prove that we have been impacted forever having to prove our pain we are constantly having the impact assessed and measured to prove that we need mental or physical therapy to prove we are still in pain is it not enough
00:59:32 we are still in pain is it not enough that we walked out of the building and had to watch my family
00:59:37 my family my brother and his family die we still need support our children need support
00:59:43 support local and central government cannot be allowed to abandon us to wash their hands of us when they think they have done enough what happened to us was through their failings our loss our
00:59:55 was through their failings our loss our pain our wounds are because of them
01:00:02 this duty of care needs to extend beyond us to the rest of the country to the thousands of families who live in communities like us like we had at grenfell
01:00:12 grenfell who are still treated as second-class citizens
01:00:15 citizens it needs to extend to the thousands impacted by the building safety crisis up and down the country we are still impacted we still hurt we still remember
01:00:26 still remember we haven't forgotten all the issues we have the ptsd the mental and physical trauma that you see as problems in us this isn't who we were this is who some
01:00:39 this isn't who we were this is who some of us are now because of what the government did to us because of your absence because you weren't not there because you did not show that you cared you have sacked all the energy from us
01:00:51 you have sacked all the energy from us those that cause this tragedy need to be held accountable their duty of care to us now has no limit
01:00:59 limit thank you
01:01:01 mr herbie can i thank you very much for sharing those closing remarks we're going to pause now to see if anyone else has any more questions for you
01:01:11 you thank you
01:01:13 thank you yes thank you well i think you know don't you that um we have a pause at this
01:01:17 this stage to see if anyone wants to suggest questions at all to be put to you yeah so we'll
01:01:23 so we'll break now until quarter past three or just after okay and then we'll see at that point whether there are questions thank you very much thank you thank you very much would you give the action yeah thank you
01:01:51 right sizzling i'll say quarter past three if you need any further time which i think is unlikely you can ask the usher to tell us that all right thank you thank you very much
01:15:38 would you ask mrs will happy to come back in please
01:15:58 all right well let's see if there's any more questions for you charlie thank you yes mrs miss wahabi there's no further questions for you i just want to say thank you very much for coming to give your evidence i appreciate
01:16:09 your evidence i appreciate it may have been a challenging process for you but we're very very grateful so thank you thank you thank you and i should add my thanks mrs harvey on behalf of all three of us on the panel here it's been very helpful to hear from
01:16:21 here it's been very helpful to hear from you
01:16:21 you i'm sorry it's been difficult because i know it has from time to time and i know you're still finding life very difficult but we are very grateful to you for coming along it's always helpful to hear what people have to tell us and in your
01:16:32 what people have to tell us and in your case particularly helpful so thank you very much indeed thank you for giving us give me the time and space to do that and thank you for all three of you it's good to see three of you because last time we're just one of you so thank you
01:16:43 time we're just one of you so thank you thank you very much one night you're free to go perhaps you just go with the ashes she'll look after you thank you very much
01:17:02 well thank you very much mrs islam now is there anything else that we can do this afternoon not today no not today all right thank you very much well in that case we'll break at this point and we'll resume
01:17:13 break at this point and we'll resume because we have another witness coming tomorrow we'll resume at 10 o'clock tomorrow then please thank you all right thank you very much 10 o'clock tomorrow