Mariko Toyoshima Luis, a disabled wheelchair user from Flat 9 (3rd floor), describes her harrowing escape from Grenfell Tower with her three young children, highlighting the failures of the stay-put policy for disabled residents.
00:00:16 good morning everyone welcome to today's hearing we're going to hear from two further witnesses who were present in the tower at the time of the fire yes mr. Allen good morning mr. chairman
00:00:30 yes mr. Allen good morning mr. chairman our first witness mrs. Mariko toyoshima Luis is already in place mrs. Tuohy Hashima Luis can I ask you please to give the inquiry
00:00:42 can I ask you please to give the inquiry your full name since he must do solemnly
00:00:59 your full name since he must do solemnly sincerely needed to declare and affirm decay and burn that the evidence said
00:01:10 decay and burn that the evidence said that's everything's I shall give I shall give shall be the truth shall be the truth the whole truth holsters and nothing but the truth and the nothing
00:01:22 nothing but the truth and the nothing but the tears thank you
00:01:29 starts again I think good morning can you give the inquiry your full name please yes my name is Mariko toyoshima Louise mrs. Tuohy Hashima Luis the first
00:01:42 Louise mrs. Tuohy Hashima Luis the first thing I need to say sir thank you for coming here to give evidence we're very grateful for your being willing to come and help us further we all know that it
00:01:56 and help us further we all know that it isn't going to be easy to have to give evidence about such a heartbreaking event if at any time as we go along you need a break please let me know
00:02:08 please let me know and we'll stop it everyone here has seen your statements and so I won't ask you questions about every part of your
00:02:19 questions about every part of your statement yes what I'm going to try and do is to keep my questions short and straightforward but if at any time I ask you a question that you don't understand
00:02:35 you a question that you don't understand please tell me and I'll ask it in a different way thank you sir what my questions today will focus on is the night of the fire
00:02:48 will focus on is the night of the fire itself so as you may know there are two phases to the inquiry but today I won't be asking you questions about phase two
00:02:59 what we need to do first is to put your statements into the record and I want to start then by looking at the first statement that you've made which if we can bring the first page up it's iws
00:03:11 can bring the first page up it's iws five zeros 304 please mr. Shima Luis is you'll see it's on the screens but if you look in front of you if you're
00:03:22 you look in front of you if you're helped in the bundle that's in front of you should have the statement there
00:03:34 but what I want us to do is if we can is just turn to the last page in that tab please which is page 10
00:03:56 well well right well can we do it try and do it with the screen is it possible for us to make the screen as large as possible please can you see at the
00:04:08 possible please can you see at the bottom there mrs. Tuohy a milk miss Toya Shima Luis that there is a date of the 11th of May 2018 and above the tight you're typed name is a signature can you
00:04:21 you're typed name is a signature can you confirm that that is your signature yes
00:04:26 there are six exhibits your statement and I need to put those into the records we don't need to bring any of them up but they're made up of four photographs and two videos the photographs are for
00:04:40 and two videos the photographs are for the record MTL one reference I WS 907 MTL 2-1 reference I WS 905 m TL 2-2 I WS 909 m
00:04:58 reference I WS 905 m TL 2-2 I WS 909 m TL 2-3 I WS 9 1 0 the videos have been labeled as m TL 3 a reference I WS 906 m
00:05:12 labeled as m TL 3 a reference I WS 906 m mt l 3b reference i WS 908 you've also made a supplementary witness statement
00:05:23 made a supplementary witness statement that should be in the bundle it's i WS 1090 to the last page of that is up on the screen now but again it's dated the
00:05:36 the screen now but again it's dated the 26th of September 2018 can you confirm that that's your signature yes so I Ashima Lewis have you had an opportunity
00:05:48 Ashima Lewis have you had an opportunity to go over your statements recently yes are the contents of those two statements true
00:05:58 no I'm sorry if you don't understand what mr. Roberts asking you I'm sorry
00:06:08 yeah I'm a the new statement there is new sister listen to me what I know what I'm asking you is whether taking the state the contents of the two statements
00:06:20 state the contents of the two statements are those contents true yes could I start by asking you some questions a
00:06:31 start by asking you some questions a background yes in June 2017 is it right that you were living with your three children in flat
00:06:42 living with your three children in flat nine in Grenville tower yes that's correct
00:06:45 correct and that flat was on the third floor wasn't it yes as we as you've confirmed you were living there with your three
00:06:56 you were living there with your three children you had a daughter who was age nine at the time at that time yes sir and then you had two sons who were age seven and five yes is it also right that
00:07:11 seven and five yes is it also right that you moved into that flat in July 2016 yes correct and at the time in June 2017
00:07:23 yes correct and at the time in June 2017 were you registered as disabled yes us and is it the nature of your disability that you have to use a wheelchair on a daily basis yes
00:07:39 now at the time of the fire in June 2017 you had a mobility scooter didn't you yes and you also had an electric
00:07:50 yes and you also had an electric wheelchair is that right yes
00:07:55 as it also right that you couldn't store either the mobility scooter or the electric wheelchair in your flat could you did you have to leave them outside
00:08:07 you did you have to leave them outside the villa yes mobility school thing the power wheelchair too wide I can't putting her inside of her and was was that because the front door of the flat
00:08:19 that because the front door of the flat was too narrow and so did you have to leave them parked in the lobby area outside your door just to put on Thor Thor Park was there so I
00:08:30 Thor Park was there so I you dropped your voice a little bit you just touch again yes I park front door buzzer and the foot on top of my door so
00:08:42 buzzer and the foot on top of my door so because you couldn't get for example the the power wheelchair into your flat did that mean that you had to have a manual wheelchair inside the place yes and did
00:08:54 wheelchair inside the place yes and did you use your manual wheelchair all the time yes and so did that mean that if you when you were coming home for example you would have to transfer from the power wheelchair into the manual
00:09:07 the power wheelchair into the manual wheelchair outside the front door yes just of roncador I have to transport for the manual wheelchair every day and then once you
00:09:18 wheelchair every day and then once you were in the flat you had to you would move around in the manual wheelchair so if on a normal day mm-hmm you had to
00:09:30 if on a normal day mm-hmm you had to leave the flat how would you get out of the building and just a plan supporters oh you know when you are wheelchair to a power wheelchair or front over my
00:09:41 power wheelchair or front over my enterance door then and will go out would you have to use the lift I guess I have to use that day and so you would
00:09:53 have to use that day and so you would have to take the lift from the third floor to the ground yes what would you do if the lift wasn't working if it wasn't talking just the
00:10:04 working if it wasn't talking just the quarter TM or or a tomorrow the office and sometime you know I couldn't take my children to school
00:10:12 school justic ordered my children to school they explained so before the fire yes were there times when the lift wasn't working
00:10:22 working yeah and and did that mean that on those days you you couldn't leave your flat yes we had a few time and I couldn't to take as a school I now want to ask you a
00:10:39 take as a school I now want to ask you a few questions about there is parts of your flat yes the first question is
00:10:50 your flat yes the first question is about your front door yes did the front door to the flat have an automatic door closer on it yes they have and did that mean that if you came
00:11:02 have and did that mean that if you came out of the flat the door would shut yep and automatically shapped ended up with a key too well was that door closer working on the night of the
00:11:13 door closer working on the night of the fire
00:11:20 now and again if we just moving on slightly to a different topic and this is about what you knew about what to do there was a fire before the fire did you
00:11:34 there was a fire before the fire did you know what you should do if there was a fire in Greenville tower yes and what was that and I can see the sign say
00:11:45 was that and I can see the sign say things our policy before not my product days of fire I have to stay inside if I am I forgot to start the fire I have to go dance there but not you see
00:11:57 I have to go dance there but not you see for myself that I dated and did you know that that was called a mistake put to policy were you happy with that policy
00:12:09 policy were you happy with that policy no why were you unhappy I was a fire today
00:12:18 today at the time my children easily take scape downstair to safe you know necessary to stay inside of the you know
00:12:29 necessary to stay inside of the you know flag I can tell the heat for that that during weeds well can I stop you there I'll ask you in a moment about the night itself generally I think you said you
00:12:40 itself generally I think you said you weren't happy with the idea of staying in the flat so what was it that made you unhappy because I also expected when I called a 999 take on the rescue me you
00:12:53 called a 999 take on the rescue me you know maybe 10 15 minute you know I expect it in 15 minutes but I was a stay quite awhile
00:13:07 again taking you back to before June 2007 so before the fire happened yes if there had been a fire manassas where
00:13:21 there had been a fire manassas where there was a fire how would you be able to get out of the building I wasn't expected for go downstair on my own
00:13:29 own impossible that's why we you know training I would explain to my children if I come just you know go downstair and
00:13:43 if I come just you know go downstair and the judge if a day time go to the you know change in Tunisia Santander tell some stuff to myself was there you know I thought about it - mind the goldens
00:13:55 I thought about it - mind the goldens thereby bottom you know crowing but you know my situation is quite difficult to do that's like only I real tell children
00:14:07 do that's like only I real tell children just to stay together go downstair ask someone to help and say was that a plan in your mind only to do people around
00:14:18 in your mind only to do people around and we have been training a few time you know and I you know take a dance there and I pretend I'm not down stair but say you walk point I made it and meet up
00:14:32 you walk point I made it and meet up position everything but that's a fire they was it wasn't the walk Assad's away so before the fire you'd actually taught your children and trained them about
00:14:44 your children and trained them about what to do yes which and what you taught them was that they should go out down the stairs and go to for example the letter centre to get help yes and for you if if this if the lift
00:15:00 yes and for you if if this if the lift wasn't working and you needed to get out of the building would the only way be that you would have to go down the step down the stairs on your bottom but I
00:15:11 down the stairs on your bottom but I don't have a no choice you know maybe just end of a step and I'm failure Townsel or lured into them I don't know what can I do but you know
00:15:24 don't know what can I do but you know what I can't think of like OSA or I have to just just I have to wait for someone helping me out this is for that I have all the time when I visiting children
00:15:36 all the time when I visiting children the school people carry me up and they carry me down or you know my children in the schools they don't have a nice lift as well and that does a couple as well
00:15:47 as well and that does a couple as well so many people Bronte you know supposed to be helping the safety but they carry me up and carry me down you know so
00:16:01 me up and carry me down you know so yourself is it is it is it the position that because of your disabilities can you actually move distances on your bottom at all and I didn't have the time
00:16:16 bottom at all and I didn't have the time either maybe you know one gained half a years ago or something quite a while ago you know I have a really store on the pain if someone hold it to my arm really
00:16:28 pain if someone hold it to my arm really pay my almost started chain to pay that's why end up with a door opens Aurora I slowly slowly go downstair but take awhile but this is a every time I
00:16:41 take awhile but this is a every time I did you know since my children starting for school because I don't have a no chance you know they don't have no lived I have to visit it for the parents
00:16:52 I have to visit it for the parents evening or I'd have to visit it for the something for the you know school to event you know so many volunteer people helping me carry carry to upstair miss
00:17:04 helping me carry carry to upstair miss answers well in so if you if you go into a building where there isn't a working lift are you dependent on people help carrying you up and down before the fire
00:17:15 carrying you up and down before the fire and whilst you were living at Grenville tower did anyone come to you with any advice about what you should do in a fire yes and I was requested and maybe
00:17:27 fire yes and I was requested and maybe his name a lot part I've and and he's and come off Ramona tomorrow the office and he explained me stay put the policy
00:17:44 and the staple policy was explained to you but did anyone also give you any advice about what you yourself should do as a disabled person if you needed to
00:17:57 as a disabled person if you needed to get out of the building in a fire he told me if called a 999 maybe 8 15 minutes and someone come to rescue you
00:18:08 minutes and someone come to rescue you don't worry about it so the advice that you would what you knew beforehand was that you should stay put call 999 and wait for someone to
00:18:19 put call 999 and wait for someone to come you should be no longer he say all right
00:18:25 right quí now if I may can I ask you questions about the night itself and let's just look at your first statement and just again so that we can understand what was
00:18:38 again so that we can understand what was going on we go to page 3 please paragraphs 12 to 13
00:19:02 miss Toya Shima Lewis I'm not going to read it all out to you but I'm just going to set summarize it but in these paragraphs and the ones on
00:19:16 but in these paragraphs and the ones on the next page you explained that on the evening of the 13th of June yes one of your children was feeling unwell yes and
00:19:27 your children was feeling unwell yes and your ex-husband David Lewis yes had been visiting that night is that right yep correct
00:19:34 correct and he stayed on to help look after your it was your son wasn't it he stayed on health look after your son and if we
00:19:45 health look after your son and if we turn to the next page and look at paragraph 15
00:20:04 page four please
00:20:10 what you say there is that on that night yourself David and your three children were all slept in the same room is that rice and if we look at where that room
00:20:24 rice and if we look at where that room was can we have your there's a exhibited plan which is at iaws 9:07 page one
00:20:35 plan which is at iaws 9:07 page one please
00:20:53 so if I give that reference against iws five zeros nine zero seven
00:21:04 thank you very much we just expand the image as much as possible
00:21:18 that's a plan of the layout of your flat yes and at the top you've got three rooms yes which a marked B for bedroom
00:21:30 rooms yes which a marked B for bedroom yes and in the middle one there we can see what's of two squares are those supposed to be the beds yes and was that the bedroom that you were all sleeping in that night yes how many
00:21:45 all sleeping in that night yes how many windows did that bedroom have two and longer look like the longer window to over them but how could you put a
00:21:58 over them but how could you put a smaller pan there either well I did that for quite some more money but quite long windows here so the frames of the windows were long I was recording and
00:22:12 windows one two sleeve for for each plan therefore one side endure like I said Mercedes sema4 paneer so they had glass
00:22:23 Mercedes sema4 paneer so they had glass panels that is thank you now if we go back please to your statement I WS 3:04 page four please
00:22:34 statement I WS 3:04 page four please [Music]
00:22:42 all right
00:22:47 again if we expand as much as possible paragraph 16
00:23:00 so have you got a difficulty just seeing probably better to use the small screen but to see if we can get it enlarged
00:23:11 but to see if we can get it enlarged even more
00:23:22 Thank You mr. Smithers now if you find it easier to work from the printed version of course do right
00:23:39 what you tell us is that David woke you up at about 1:15 a.m. how did you know that it was about 1:15 when David woke
00:23:53 that it was about 1:15 when David woke you are because I took cause a video outta sight and immediately he woke me up I can see the something falling down
00:24:04 up I can see the something falling down and I hear the something explosion sound as well and I was a diabetes helped me transporter and wheelchair then I rent
00:24:19 transporter and wheelchair then I rent is nearby the window I can see that it is starting for you know he does Evalia then I take the video then that's a
00:24:30 then I take the video then that's a video is this time that's right so
00:24:36 that's 115 was the time that you took the video yes and you say it was you would you looked out a new video from a
00:24:48 would you looked out a new video from a window was was it the bedroom window yes that you were in yes
00:24:59 now I think from that window from that bedroom view if you're looking out of the windows you can see the Academy is that right yes and I think in your statement what you say is that you could
00:25:11 statement what you say is that you could see the windows of the Academy reflecting fire when you were looking out and you're looking out on the windows of the Academy aren't you
00:25:22 windows of the Academy aren't you was it the windows on your left or on your right that were reflecting fire if you just imagine yourself back at your
00:25:34 you just imagine yourself back at your bedroom window looking out and you've told us that you can see windows at the academy reflecting fire were you looking out towards your left or towards your right light you've just told us about
00:25:52 right light you've just told us about seeing trees catch fire was it just one tree that you saw and my eyesight is not too clear but I can see the orange stuff
00:26:07 too clear but I can see the orange stuff starting for burning and I knew it there is two easier that I saw the captain today and and also just more ready I can
00:26:20 today and and also just more ready I can see I've sits at sit down to low position that's why I can't easy this is a reflected for the Granville and tower and more already fire going to few floor
00:26:33 and more already fire going to few floor I can see in from the reflection whereabouts with the trees that you saw with flames just Victor say does
00:26:46 with flames just Victor say does Baltimore was a pass they had to put on the layers that's this place is 34 so what you saw when you looked out was it at the bottom
00:26:57 at the bottom renji Orange Leaf erection I can see so you saw plants at trees planted down at the bottom well yes so we're beginning to burn it and then you saw the reflection
00:27:08 reflection of a fire yes in the windows of the Academy yes from that you say you just said that it was it was going up the tower from that reflection were you able
00:27:21 tower from that reflection were you able to say how far above you the fire was not at a time I saw the couple floors I thought about it not like just a smaller
00:27:32 thought about it not like just a smaller fire isalta were just the one to hook up or what
00:27:36 or what so a couple of flaws but did you get a sense that they were above you that it was above you you said that you saw
00:27:49 was above you you said that you saw small pieces of fire and flaming orange objects falling puffs down past the window yes how big were the objects that you saw I saw quite a large one like and
00:28:05 maybe one meter square or or some MOBAs are quite small I guess but for all thick the like this and my eyesight was
00:28:20 thick the like this and my eyesight was a quite poor that's why everything sometime you know reflected and more you know light was get beetle okay and bad that today I
00:28:31 get beetle okay and bad that today I feel with danger I thought worried because every day diffraction failure heat like orange II reduction come up to my face as well so
00:28:43 reduction come up to my face as well so when you were looking at you feel heat on you and I felt I felt can we look
00:28:55 on you and I felt I felt can we look it's paragraph 18 of the statement
00:29:10 what I'll do mr. Tai Chi Minh Louise I'll just I'll just read the little bit that I want to draw your attention to and that may help you I think you what what you say is that I could also feel
00:29:22 what you say is that I could also feel heat coming through the right-hand corner of the bedroom ceiling by the window yes this was the corner next to the window and between the external wall and the dividing wall to the bedroom next door yes I could feel the heat
00:29:35 next door yes I could feel the heat coming through the floor above and onto my head yes and if we look at let's look back at your plan please I WS 9:07
00:29:49 back at your plan please I WS 9:07 page one
00:29:57 again expand as much as we can
00:30:03 you and your children and David would have been in that middle room yes where the beds are and so if I've understood your evidence correctly do you see that
00:30:14 your evidence correctly do you see that the looking at the image there's a bedroom on the on the left as we look at it
00:30:28 you see that so was it in that dividing wall between those two bedrooms that you could feel the heat next to the window
00:30:41 could feel the heat next to the window top was a ceiling I felt the starting for a little bit do you know heat the immediate area I felt when I woke up
00:30:52 when I woke up so that was heating the ceiling yeah did you see anything happening to the ceiling looks like a normal but I can
00:31:07 ceiling looks like a normal but I can feel different that there is something heat a little bit corner was a room water starting for heat heat up and actually talk to window type I took a
00:31:20 actually talk to window type I took a video what you've also said already is that you could hear explosions yes did you hear explosions when you first
00:31:32 did you hear explosions when you first got up and look at how out of the window I single before called a nine nine nine I can't hear five or six quite large
00:31:43 I can't hear five or six quite large noise you know unusual force arrived and here's a some objects that I think going down and started and I can feel the
00:31:55 down and started and I can feel the firework something can I try and break that desolate what you've told us is that and before you called 999 you could hear five or six unusual noises is that
00:32:07 hear five or six unusual noises is that right
00:32:08 right yes and did you actually see anything hitting the ground and I was just to look at the window yes big object and
00:32:22 look at the window yes big object and falling down I saw it quite a large of the Justice League for them and did you link that object hitting the ground with the sound of the explosion
00:32:42 maybe but you're not some that like a more pop for the firewalker noise I have so the sound of the explosion was like a firework I use it like someone has a
00:32:55 firework I use it like someone has a high yo local a casa so was it like a firework bang yes and just so that we
00:33:06 firework bang yes and just so that we can be clear with those sounds coming from outside the tower and inside oh thank you you've told us that you called 999 and we'll look at that in a minute
00:33:21 999 and we'll look at that in a minute sorry bout the sight and the light and the situs of everything reason love something this always something going on to sister of bodom so when you were
00:33:34 to sister of bodom so when you were looking out of the window you you heard the sound of explosions outside what did you hear from the right-hand side of the building it's a something and explosions
00:33:49 building it's a something and explosions sound they're like yeah something like fire walk sound something going young and the dog put them like so did you
00:34:00 and the dog put them like so did you hear firework sounds above you see so well ended thought of bow down let's go now to use 999 call that was at you've
00:34:13 now to use 999 call that was at you've put it down in your statement at 127 yes what makes you sure it was that time that you first called I took off or
00:34:27 that you first called I took off or thoughts or P tales in just a ton of God not should be like I love the light goes up so you can time your call based on the fact that you were doing other
00:34:38 the fact that you were doing other things like these photos and videos I'd like to show you please the transcript of that call it's at lfb five zeros 5 l
00:34:53 of that call it's at lfb five zeros 5 l FB five zeros 5c please
00:35:10 mr. Shima Lewis if I explained that this is a transcript that's been prepared of the recording of the call that you made just when you dialed 999 and if I'll
00:35:25 just when you dialed 999 and if I'll just explain it you can see I hope if we expand it as much as possible it's dated the 14th of June 2017 which is when you made the call it tells us how long the
00:35:38 made the call it tells us how long the call lasted for which was 30 minutes and 20 seconds that's the bit that's headed call duration and if you can see at the
00:35:50 call duration and if you can see at the top there there's a there's next to the word event there's a very long reference and just again just to explain to you thank you right the the last four
00:36:05 thank you right the the last four letters of that reference is headed and it's nwf see now that stands for North West fire control which is a Fire and
00:36:17 West fire control which is a Fire and Rescue Service it's not the London Fire Brigade but what it means is that your phone your call was put through to another Fire and Rescue Service but you just to be clear what when you rang up
00:36:28 just to be clear what when you rang up were you asking to speak to the fire brigade yes next to that is the time of the call which is put as zero one three
00:36:41 the call which is put as zero one three six two three so one thirty six twenty three now that isn't the time you rang Mitton it's the time that it was answered so with that background and and
00:36:56 answered so with that background and and if we look please at the next page
00:37:02 you just expand to please this document
00:37:18 tgd expand the top half please now the caller speaking at this time it is not you it's somebody connecting your call
00:37:30 you it's somebody connecting your call to Northwest fire control and can you see that they say there that they make a reference to hit seven minutes do you
00:37:41 reference to hit seven minutes do you remember having to wait for some time before they put you through to the fire risk that the change for the second Oh
00:37:54 risk that the change for the second Oh awesome and can you remember now were you waiting for a few minutes before you got to speak to somebody I think I didn't wait too much I guess so I didn't
00:38:09 didn't wait too much I guess so I didn't catch your answer I don't think I didn't do way too much just quite similarly you know connect it does operate I guess thank you if we could just go to the
00:38:23 thank you if we could just go to the next page
00:38:34 I just want to say that you can sort of understand just how the document works if you if we expand the bottom part of it from the the operator who's the from
00:38:49 it from the the operator who's the from the Fire Rescue Service it gets put through to you and we see that in the bottom although your names been typed wrong you say my name is Mariko and then it's been typed on but you give your name and and your flat and
00:39:03 you give your name and and your flat and then you start talking to the operators you follow what I want to do and we will jump around this document a bit but it's
00:39:14 jump around this document a bit but it's a helpful document because it's a recording you made at the time so it tells us what you saw and heard at the time so I just want to ask you some questions about the document all right
00:39:25 questions about the document all right if we go please to l FB 506 page 8 please
00:40:00 could we just expand the the second answer from the operator down and and then just expand them to down to my son
00:40:11 then just expand them to down to my son is not feeling really well the bit above it please
00:40:22 what the control room officer asks you says to you is right so you're in one room and what part are you at the back
00:40:33 room and what part are you at the back of the flat or and you then say and this is yet corner of the house flat and the operator says right so you're in one of the corners of the flat and then you mentioned that your son's not feeling well at the time when you've rang 999
00:40:48 well at the time when you've rang 999 were you still in the bedroom yes if we go to page 16 in the same document
00:41:04 go to page 16 in the same document please
00:41:12 and I'll read out and some of what the questions and answers are second response from the operator down the
00:41:23 response from the operator down the operator says yeah I'll stay on the phone as long as you need me to you say all right and the operator then asks where where is everybody now are you still all in the same room you then
00:41:36 still all in the same room you then respond what I cannot I cannot see that okay and the children are in the living room they sit down in that there now so as you're doing this call and it went
00:41:48 as you're doing this call and it went for half an hour did you in the course of it did you move your children into the living room already children know why you are coming and the stay-put the time the system in the choir you know
00:42:00 time the system in the choir you know you know Korea is the photo Moses Isaiah just for daughter you know with that we did you know we training before just as
00:42:12 did you know we training before just as soon as it is a go sit down and just cross together say listen you media well so if I just break that down with you please so when you began the call 999
00:42:24 please so when you began the call 999 you were in the bedroom yes but as part of what you taught your children before you you asked them to go and sit in the living room quietly yeah I didn't to say
00:42:35 living room quietly yeah I didn't to say sit down but they can remember for the you know training before that the immediate that is just a sick that sit down and the circle so if they say your
00:42:48 down and the circle so if they say your children knew what to do
00:42:55 now
00:43:01 on if we'd stay with that page what the operator then asked you is right is there still smoke coming into your flat and you said yeah I can smell it I can smell it in the white steam coming you
00:43:13 smell it in the white steam coming you know but I tried to block the way to the went to and then there was inaudible it with the towel and the just in case we I'm now in the toilet and the duvet
00:43:24 I'm now in the toilet and the duvet cover put my face in the inaudible now I asked you about questions about the smoke in a moment but what you mentioned there is being in the toilet and a duvet
00:43:36 there is being in the toilet and a duvet cover over your face so what were you doing at that time I was adjusted preparing for that and inside the room was alright but I was a worry for outer side community area then I was just too
00:43:49 side community area then I was just too broke away to the antennas as a door to no smoke coming I can smell it to be that's like just in case put don't because a gap was there I just and was
00:44:02 because a gap was there I just and was this on the front door to the flapper door so what were you were you soaking Hawkins a duvet cover saying just to put it down in front of the gas and was
00:44:15 it down in front of the gas and was there a gap in the front yes the bottom
00:44:33 now as I said in that page you're referring to this being able to smell it and the white steam coming if we look at
00:44:46 and the white steam coming if we look at one of the things that you said earlier in the call and that's at page three
00:44:58 right at the bottom please if we just expand the very last response from mr. general Lewis what you'd said and this was as we look just after you'd introduced yourself and you say I can
00:45:15 introduced yourself and you say I can feel the heat in my room and the fire and the smoke coming inside my room so first question is yes which room are you referring to there this is a Forza
00:45:27 referring to there this is a Forza faster better room and is that the bedroom where you were had all these yeah and we know was a course but after coming then smell like burning or
00:45:41 coming then smell like burning or projectors in there and was that happening before you call then you called 999 at the time I wasn't you know I wasn't I don't know I'm sorry but I
00:45:56 I wasn't I don't know I'm sorry but I opened the window I said and my ex-husband helped me open the window as well that's amore smell like quite a stronger behind Inger smell I can I can
00:46:09 stronger behind Inger smell I can I can tell and the quicker I shut the window so so again if we just look at what you've said you say you can feel the heat in my room so that's the heat in the bedroom and are you referring there
00:46:21 the bedroom and are you referring there to the heat in the series one corner different that if something happened I was a really volley because one corner feel the heat and then you say smoke
00:46:33 feel the heat and then you say smoke coming inside my room is that is that smoke coming through the window yes and could it have been that the smoke had come in because you'd opened the window
00:46:44 come in because you'd opened the window yes I was a and the few time open and the
00:46:50 the with the help of me but and actually and window was no feet - well that's I don't have to come in since Mel keep coming so even with the window
00:47:03 keep coming so even with the window closed yes a smell was coming in yes and what did that's what did it what was can you describe that smell burning burning
00:47:20 you describe that smell burning burning plastic candle like you know a lot of virgins
00:47:25 virgins Bonnie's Baba I can tell the plastic kind of scene I felt the secret so well so how quickly did it make you feel safe
00:47:36 so how quickly did it make you feel safe quickly open the window and smoke was a you know wind is a burrow my sight is then more quickly you know I think
00:47:48 then more quickly you know I think better room was the window is a much really short of time really short time but even after the window was closed the smell was coming in was any smoke coming in even after the window was closed not
00:47:59 in even after the window was closed not smoke any like creosote well but I can smell it for the burning you know stuff starting for little bit too strong up and just so that we can be clear you
00:48:12 and just so that we can be clear you mentioned there in that ants when you speak to the operator you make reference to fire was there any flames at all coming into your bedroom no on before I can't see out the side
00:48:24 no on before I can't see out the side and can I take you please to in this transcript again page 27
00:48:47 and if we again please just expand the just the last third of that so you're talking with the operator and the
00:48:59 talking with the operator and the operator says so you can is it like sort of ash ash and stuff you can see coming out of the windows and you say yeah I can see that you know five things you know and then there's a couple of words
00:49:11 know and then there's a couple of words which the toy the question mark next to but you finish by saying basically I can see all the smoke and the orange color and the operator and the last part of this page says is there any smoke inside
00:49:25 this page says is there any smoke inside your flat and on the next page you say yeah I have smoke and the operator says
00:49:37 yeah I have smoke and the operator says you've got some smoke in the flat and you respond and the smoke yet and now I have one side of the window I try to open and get the fresh air now otherwise I can feel it inside the smell quite bad
00:49:49 I can feel it inside the smell quite bad come through the entrance and the operator says it will smell quite bad are you able have you blocked up the doorways the gaps under the bottom of the door and you say yes now you've told
00:50:04 the door and you say yes now you've told us about smoke coming in through the bedroom window when you opened it and but not when you closed it but that you could smell afterwards after come soon as the call was going on did that
00:50:19 soon as the call was going on did that change did smoke start coming into the flat to be honest I can smell it - stronger but you know and the air was a clear so there were was there any
00:50:32 clear so there were was there any although you could smell something do you have any effect on your breathing at all
00:50:42 we now you know opens a window I can taste the you know balancing I had back when I inside that you know quite the career and you know just something
00:50:55 career and you know just something Barney smell that's it what you've referred to is the entrance watch entrance were you were you referring to
00:51:07 entrance were you were you referring to and the maintenance is that that is that the entrance to your flat yes the front door and so was there smoke coming in
00:51:18 door and so was there smoke coming in through your front door yes I can somebody de started to something come out of sight that's like you know I was really worried might the outer side is
00:51:29 really worried might the outer side is something happen you know this is I was a you know Wally and you've told us about we using the soaking the duvet
00:51:42 about we using the soaking the duvet once you done that and put it across the gap did it stop anything coming in yeah I still don't have to come in like that
00:51:55 I still don't have to come in like that you know no how could you go to not see you know well so many gap as air that's like Justice Amell come up you know some get four per day Cindy gesture but what
00:52:06 get four per day Cindy gesture but what was coming through is a smell rather than actual smoke no I can't see that any canal was a smoke just to smelly
00:52:19 so I think I've been osmosis 45 minutes and I wonder if we could just have a short break at this point yes mrs. Toshi meters would you like to have a break now I think everyone would
00:52:32 have a break now I think everyone would probably quite like to have a little break anyway would it be more convenient for you to leave the room or to stay in the room you rather stay where you are
00:52:47 the room you rather stay where you are behaved evil one time you can leave yes of course you can yes that's what normally happens but I wasn't sure because I know that you were here when I came in that you might prefer to stay
00:52:58 came in that you might prefer to stay where you are but do right we'll have a break until quarter to twelve is that going to be all right and that gives you just over ten minutes I have to ask you
00:53:09 just over ten minutes I have to ask you not to talk to anyone about your evidence while you're out of the room and if you can make your own way the usher will help you out and if you want
00:53:20 usher will help you out and if you want mr. Howard to help you I'm sure he will and take your time we will just wait for you right
00:53:56 right course to 12 and C's
00:59:08 you
01:10:52 [Music] hold on all right we're in
01:11:15 why do you you reddit carry on STDs yes with Robert thank you sir mr. Schumer Lilith's before we had the break and we were looking at the
01:11:27 break and we were looking at the transcript of your 999 call I'd like to go back to that place it's lfb 506 and it's at page 11
01:11:42 if we could just take it from where the operator says hello for the second time then expand just a bit down please that's great thank you I'll read out
01:11:57 that's great thank you I'll read out part that I'd like to ask you a question about you can see that at the top there
01:12:08 about you can see that at the top there where you're identified as the caller so you're the first caller and you say the fire upstairs the fire upstairs about and then the next word is inaudible and the operator then asks you right so the
01:12:21 the operator then asks you right so the fire is upstairs now at that time what we what did you mean to say to the operator when you were referring to a fire upstairs because and so many saw me
01:12:37 fire upstairs because and so many saw me some object falling down Barbara's a my for that so because you were seeing objects falling down and coming from
01:12:49 objects falling down and coming from above
01:12:50 above that's what you you you led you to do believe that there was a fire above you yes you mentioned earlier and you also mentioned when you were making the 999
01:13:03 mentioned when you were making the 999 call about the heat in your ceilings yes I felt did that spread at all not just in a one corner or was it such a better I can fail to hate you've told us about
01:13:21 I can fail to hate you've told us about the explosions you could hear yes and you also mentioned this in this call I just want to show you the pages where you refer to explosions yes could we go
01:13:32 you refer to explosions yes could we go to page 5 please
01:13:40 and just expand the top half please and just a little further down is that so do
01:13:53 just a little further down is that so do you see what what you say in the course of the conversation you say and this is the first time that you mention it you say to the operator I can hear explosion twice now and the
01:14:04 I can hear explosion twice now and the operator says right there's been an explosion actually in the building that you're in and then your answer is partly inaudible but you go on to refer to fire
01:14:15 inaudible but you go on to refer to fire in the tree outside if we go to page nine
01:14:27 again the bottom half of the page
01:14:36 so if we shrink it back please to the whole page please to start if we take the last four ants for responses so when
01:14:53 the last four ants for responses so when we're caller it says there's been an explosion right now if we could expand that
01:15:07 so this is another part of the transcript and again for us this is the second time where you Dow say there's been an explosion right now an explosion
01:15:18 been an explosion right now an explosion and then I'll show you the last reference that you make two explosions and that's at page 21
01:15:34 just right at the bottom if we just expand that last answer you say I heard six times big explosion six times and big you know so while you were making
01:15:47 big you know so while you were making the call were you still hearing explosions still some fireworks and alike goodies and objects the falling down you know if I'm going to the
01:15:59 down you know if I'm going to the buy/sell window yes I can hear that the sound of what sounded like fireworks from outside here and when you use the word big what were you trying to say to
01:16:10 word big what were you trying to say to the operator because at the time I didn't know why so many seen falling down now I know what kind of thing falling down at that time but Tom I have
01:16:21 falling down at that time but Tom I have no idea but so many piece of water and opposite quite a large piece and quite smaller piece flooring like a leaf is
01:16:34 smaller piece flooring like a leaf is falling down style and a lot of sea starting for falling down I never said you know fire like that and other than
01:16:45 you know fire like that and other than saying that they were big objects did you have any idea of what it was that this whole thing no idea at a time but very big object just sticking with the
01:16:57 very big object just sticking with the transcript but just to ask you a different question can we go to page 12 in the transcript
01:17:09 and just expand please from the operators second response which reads right can you safely leave the flat and can you just expand then no expand from
01:17:23 can you just expand then no expand from that down to where the operator says rights no no listen to me listen to me what floor are you on
01:17:34 thank you very much what you're asked by the operator miss Toya Shima Luis is can you safely leave the flat and you then
01:17:47 you safely leave the flat and you then say yeah I just need and that's there's a question mark next to that which means the transcriber wasn't clear about the word but you then say the fire officer talked to me on the megaphone the
01:18:00 talked to me on the megaphone the operator says what floor are you on you then respond this is not inaudible I have to get out the operator says rights no listen to me listen to me I need you to listen what floor are you on and you
01:18:12 to listen what floor are you on and you then say yeah fire officer told me to get out so do you have a recollection of someone outside the building using a megaphone yes not for well I don't
01:18:26 megaphone yes not for well I don't know megaphone like he had done or I can't see but I can hear get out and actually few people definitely point out to me like a poster are Malee's up and
01:18:39 to me like a poster are Malee's up and someone there someone there you know come out get out get out I can't hear clearly you know he and one person is a
01:18:50 clearly you know he and one person is a gentleman I can see I can see see do it but I can't see figure out who is who is he but do you wanna tell he or the keep telling me maybe he can see only my half
01:19:03 telling me maybe he can see only my half face someone there someone says sad or or she's shouting there and police officer as well so but just this person who was shouting get out he what what
01:19:15 who was shouting get out he what what you remember was a few people shouting get out
01:19:18 get out you quite lots of people still at that time and and there was one man in particular that you remember but yet mo get out get out just to get out you know
01:19:29 get out get out just to get out you know but if you is it the case now you can't remember anybody having a megaphone no I haven't I done know do you remember anybody having any kind of system that was an amplification
01:19:41 of system that was an amplification system I don't know and although you said that one of them was a gentleman how sure are you that whether were any
01:19:54 how sure are you that whether were any of them wearing a uniform and I don't think he's a not police officer but NICUs to him one police officer they're saying he stopped with him and the back
01:20:07 saying he stopped with him and the back off back off like Gaza so next to the gentleman shouting get out was a police officer who stopped him but the gentleman shouting get out was he wearing a uniform of any sort and
01:20:19 wearing a uniform of any sort and different that he is a police officer because other Crowder's every scene face on the and and face in the coming but
01:20:31 on the and and face in the coming but he's long to go like he was facing away from you and pushing people back but the person who was shouting get out people comparing him as well you know people I
01:20:42 comparing him as well you know people I can and also I was a raise my armor because I can stand up that's why I will raise my arm and my Vitaphone put on there and the torch I'm here I'm here
01:20:56 there and the torch I'm here I'm here please help me you know I was a because at that time I was already scary supposed to be someone rescued me this time but no one coming you know I also
01:21:09 time but no one coming you know I also have to rescue so many people and everything don't coming this is my mind started then at a time a little bit I was a you know please help please
01:21:22 was a you know please help please I'm here at least help but I gave up after this because a police officer pushes a people's away then I gave up and I don't know sir
01:21:34 then I gave up and I don't know sir and front over entrance you know but that I have to stay here waiting for Sofia you know officer but so you try to
01:21:48 Sofia you know officer but so you try to signal from your window using your torch is that right yes your phone is a torch yes but just we can communicate as well downstairs of people mmm you could shout
01:22:00 downstairs of people mmm you could shout down to people and so you saw a police officer pushing people back and one of those people was a man shouting get out just to focus on him on that man you
01:22:12 just to focus on him on that man you know didn't get out yes did you see him wearing a uniform yes I think baraka kind of see not clear but definitely I
01:22:25 kind of see not clear but definitely I can identify it was a police officer I'd say he was clear in your mind there was a police officer pushing something fast and then in the crowd were people shouting getting it but not many people
01:22:36 shouting getting it but not many people but you know he wasn't taught ID to push you their waiters of people did we just go then to page 18 in the transcript I just want to ask your help for something
01:22:58 it's just at the top there there's a reference that can you see and it's to a different person rather than yourself so
01:23:11 different person rather than yourself so some somebody else in flat but somebody's the fire officer says you should go you should go difficult to go downstairs that's why I'm because I will stay here everyone go follow the
01:23:23 stay here everyone go follow the neighbor okay go out go outside we were you aware that of your neighbors leaving the building I done
01:23:33 done do you remember would you know what the reference to follow the neighbor is
01:23:48 can we just go back to your statement then and back to iw s30 for page six please
01:24:08 and just expand paragraph 25
01:24:22 at the top there and I'll just read it out for you yeah you say at one point I waved to a police officer out of the living room window the officer saw me is
01:24:33 living room window the officer saw me is that a reference to the same police officer that we were just talking about and did that happen whilst you were on the phone that you were doing that I
01:24:45 ought to keep asking him to help I'm here
01:24:48 here I was shouted I have children here and I'm a wheelchair user I am free tonight police we have a fiber people you here I
01:25:00 police we have a fiber people you here I think I shout and danced the other people understand and as a tell there was a police officer - you know why can't go in no one go lycosa what DS if
01:25:14 can't go in no one go lycosa what DS if you think about it do you you you have to have your phone to make the 999 call I think that I was a speakerphone and the left ear and I think I was the
01:25:26 the left ear and I think I was the people get I'll get house that's why I went to that side and this home wasn't to keep next to me I think owns a table or something so you use the phone as a
01:25:37 or something so you use the phone as a speakerphone and you were moving around yeah but to use the phone as a torch would you have to keep it with you yes and the predicta back then they're like
01:25:48 and the predicta back then they're like we know next winder and this could they're like a dining a table what would be the nearby that's right just to put it on and everyone can hear as a
01:26:01 it on and everyone can hear as a conversation and so what was clear in your recollection was at the same time as you're on the call to 999 you're signaling to people outside using your
01:26:12 signaling to people outside using your phone as a torch yes we look at paragraph 29 on page 7 things
01:26:22 again I'm just going to and it just wants you ask for your help just to clear something because paragraph 29 begins 45 minutes after I had made the
01:26:36 begins 45 minutes after I had made the call three firefighters came to my flat two firemen and one fire woman you deal with in more detail in your second
01:26:47 with in more detail in your second statement with the firefighters that arrived but I just want to be clear I want to link that bit of your
01:26:58 want to link that bit of your recollection in your statement with what you said on the call itself and if we go back to lfb 506 and the last page page 32 please
01:27:24 like
01:27:34 do you remember that I showed you a page of this transcript earlier where the operator had said that I'll stay on the phone as long as you need me to if we
01:27:45 phone as long as you need me to if we look at this last page what you're saying there is it begins I'm okay I'm okay
01:27:53 okay in the door and the operator asks are they knocking you say hold on hold on someone knocking someone knocking the operator says someone knocking right
01:28:05 operator says someone knocking right okay that'll be the fire crews and you say or somebody says mummy going mummy going hold on fireman came sorry and the operator ends okay right all right go on
01:28:18 operator ends okay right all right go on I'm glad you're safe bye bye so on that transcript it would seem that at the end of the half hour that you'd spent on the phone that's when the firefighters arrived do you remember that happening
01:28:31 arrived do you remember that happening yes so with the reference to 45 minutes after the call was made was that a reference to how long you thought the call had lasted or the after you'd ended
01:28:43 call had lasted or the after you'd ended the call another 45 minutes took play passed before the firefighters arrived and after just hung up was a form and after this and they came I guess just I
01:29:01 said to someone not get about I was holding the door handle so well I was worried at that time like my mic auto side is afire that's why I grabbed
01:29:14 auto side is afire that's why I grabbed for my question Cory like oh this might handle is a hole but I did it I could is Rory touch terrifying and I opened the toilet
01:29:26 toilet so just to break it down whilst you're still on the phone to 999 you will by your front door were you I think already hung up Sims a came I see so your memory
01:29:38 hung up Sims a came I see so your memory is that you had finished the call and that's when the firefighters came mmm and I think you know fine
01:29:51 and I think you know fine after the hung up and if I earn 1k in your mind system is it very soon afterwards that you hang us that the firefighters were this and you just told
01:30:03 firefighters were this and you just told us that when you buy that door you you pulled your sleeve over your hand because sort out of size and weight or something going on sir this is I was a
01:30:14 something going on sir this is I was a wonder because so many redirecting the heat and the bedroom was all orange because war was Hawaii he proceeded affected the phenomena and the school
01:30:26 affected the phenomena and the school window and the scene was a falling down sometime I can see smoke Roy and decide to smoke become orange graduated for the
01:30:37 to smoke become orange graduated for the fire get bigger that's uh I I'm not sure for the I'm a safe in the room but I have not no idea poza outside the community area and when you touch joking
01:30:52 community area and when you touch joking the handle of your front door was it hot now at that time did you have any sense of any smoke coming in through the door and because I can leach the spy hole I can't I can't see out the side let's say
01:31:05 can't I can't see out the side let's say just a sorority attached and yeah the monetary no key then I slowly open but I toward the children might the Faraci Baca never know that I could you back
01:31:17 Baca never know that I could you back off or you know enter and I will blow away see I slowly open and but although you couldn't look out at the spy hole
01:31:28 you couldn't look out at the spy hole with were there any was there any smoke coming around the gaps and I can't see the smoke but I can smooth it so this is Mel was still there was it yes um you've
01:31:41 Mel was still there was it yes um you've given a great deal of detail in both your statements about your interactions with the firefighters I don't want to go into that detail but what I'd like to do
01:31:52 into that detail but what I'd like to do is just clarify with you some bits of it and just so that we can get your recollection in sequence you we've discussed that the firefighters
01:32:04 we've discussed that the firefighters came can you remember how many firefighters came into your flat initially and possible I think as I came city I have either
01:32:15 city I have either but I couldn't ID identified the one person because behind us a wall but two firefight that came in front of me so two of them came into the flat yeah and
01:32:26 two of them came into the flat yeah and you you think that there was one outside they communicate the somewhat guy for behind the door now by the time the firefighters arrived in the flat how
01:32:38 firefighters arrived in the flat how much smoke was there in your flat as how much smoke was there in your flat by the time they arrived I'm very Korea but I can't marry but I can I can say if open
01:32:50 can't marry but I can I can say if open the door is much more along the smells and inside so had things really changed in your flat at all was it just still
01:33:01 in your flat at all was it just still that there was this smell but not much else
01:33:03 else yeah you know ear was a career now obviously for them to come in you would have to open the door when you looked
01:33:14 have to open the door when you looked out through the door what could you see and if I you have one difficult to get into the front of a door they story can I come back to that rabbit so I I
01:33:26 can I come back to that rabbit so I I guess it one firefighter out the side and two firefighter coming inside but the door is opened what could you smell just don't smell
01:33:42 what could you smell just don't smell was it the same as the smell that you could smell in your face I think a community air hores Alba that's why maybe up the stairs they are coming to down stair I guess and did you see any
01:33:55 down stair I guess and did you see any smoke in the lobby area outside your front door and to be honest it wasn't quite no bad light as a
01:34:07 quite no bad light as a my Fuhrer and the corridor that's a feeder with the dark that's a feeder little bit maybe you know smoke there but no program it I can
01:34:18 know smoke there but no program it I can see you know at the corridor and when the firefighters came in were you still in your manual wheelchair I guess I am money at a wheelchair and
01:34:30 I guess I am money at a wheelchair and outside was the electric chair the power chair and the mobility scooter and I had the mobility scooter in the power
01:34:41 the mobility scooter in the power wheelchair out the side and they they're they're quite big objects aren't they yes and so for you to be able to come
01:34:54 yes and so for you to be able to come out of your flat easily with the firefighters have had to try and move those is the way they have to move and it's right so big there was some
01:35:05 it's right so big there was some difficulty finding the key is that right yes and so did they have to try and used force to try and push it out of the way yes I think you know at that time the
01:35:16 yes I think you know at that time the fire yourself was a really urgent that's why and you know he's light on the site was in the parnell but you know
01:35:27 the site was in the parnell but you know they don't know well it's the key eight and they say Oscar Makeba actually no key just press the button here so so
01:35:38 key just press the button here so so what was they were although they were asking for a key it could be operated by pressing a button facings of what Dan and the other and the mobility scooters oh well put it aside in the manual
01:35:49 oh well put it aside in the manual easily to move but I think as you fairly said they would have to know how those things were so you didn't know how could you you know they don't know wheelchair
01:36:00 you you know they don't know wheelchair how could you use or you know they didn't know not knowledge that's why I said you know happen now you've explained again in your statements that
01:36:11 explained again in your statements that you and your family were then evacuated can you just help us with the sequence of events
01:36:16 of events creations within the flat now are your three children is David and yourself who went first [Music]
01:36:34 a secret payoffs are fast and and my children the day with the went together
01:36:47 children the day with the went together but at that time fire said asking me how do you ever get up you know stand up we are very speedy but I was just that's
01:37:00 are very speedy but I was just that's just not something you can do because of your disability is that right that's it and to fire sir look at the Chasseur you know just a decided I guess you know
01:37:12 know just a decided I guess you know give me that I felt at that time but you know I like to say safe parents I had to send this on my children that's why my
01:37:23 send this on my children that's why my daughter she doesn't wanna go she was quite holding my arm but if you didn't to go downstair they can come in back in the rescue me police called us there and I asked I
01:37:37 police called us there and I asked I gave it to her looks up and because they have a big town say she that's everything inside I explained but my daughter was really listening well
01:37:48 my daughter was really listening well she's really fallen services you are very innocent oh god that's what I told her if you're dangerous or some stray show happen don't worry about this it'll
01:38:00 show happen don't worry about this it'll suck you can you know you can you know you don't have to you know carry all that that miserable deep it some away like so um just to get the sequence
01:38:11 like so um just to get the sequence right you you've told your daughter didn't want to go but you've told her then if she went then the firefighters could come back for you is that right and my son was a you know how can she go
01:38:26 and my son was a you know how can she go out there you know how can I go downstairs he was evicted wondering and was that was that when he was referring she was that referring to how you could
01:38:37 she was that referring to how you could go down the street one day he asked for the payoff sir but just see the noise - I can tell you no lady for me I really
01:38:49 - I can tell you no lady for me I really felt you know let's say just to say goodbye to my children I was smiling I really smiling and tell my excitement
01:39:01 really smiling and tell my excitement the fries look after Japanese an ungraded to say but I'm smiling don't worry they're gonna coming back don't worry like them but I felt you know that's much fire going you I don't have
01:39:13 that's much fire going you I don't have much you know choice if you're not doing that someone know rescue me basically I can go downstair you know and they your children and your husband
01:39:25 and they your children and your husband your ex-husband went ahead and did firefighters come back for you but I was a little bit Helsing the safety might
01:39:36 a little bit Helsing the safety might firebomb over fire says stay with me you know I saw the body but they you know I need assist for two people otherwise I can go down stay away or sleep people to
01:39:47 can go down stay away or sleep people to carry me always you know they help me down like was that that's like but I'm finding Europe I test it out the sighs I think I was a call you know hello hello
01:40:00 think I was a call you know hello hello you know hello he doesn't answer then excuse me I'm still here and the please and when is it people coming back and I
01:40:12 and when is it people coming back and I shout it and poster how could you Cody I can see this by hover post over I'm here I'm here but I shout it but I
01:40:26 here I'm here but I shout it but I recognize all left or left that's why I going back with a better term and the opens you know that's better
01:40:39 opens you know that's better immediately I felt like orange a orange a light was reflecting room has a starting for Hall warm with no hot started and coming from
01:40:52 warm with no hot started and coming from of the one corner sailing and then I was a starting for play I don't think my ceiling falling down if no one coming
01:41:06 ceiling falling down if no one coming down come make it come make just two per day for the my tooth in the future just
01:41:19 day for the my tooth in the future just a safe Tuesday yeah it started and I just pause there for a moment
01:41:30 you know I just took per day you know just to pay you know for this is someone I mean buck for me to these just a big
01:41:45 you okay for me to ask a few more questions thank you I'll just try and move it forward a little bit because I think two firefighters did come back for
01:41:56 think two firefighters did come back for you didn't they and can you remember how many firefighters carried you out and possible one lady and passed a firefighter is I asked to help
01:42:08 firefighter is I asked to help they didn't since second the firefighter came then raid he came she's a you know custom she touched my arm and the shirt
01:42:20 custom she touched my arm and the shirt like to go downstair right because I stand up police like I stand up I can't stand up I can't then she was really
01:42:32 stand up I can't then she was really tiny they did really tiny you know young lady and I really don't think you can carry me because I'm really tall and I'm
01:42:43 carry me because I'm really tall and I'm really heavy I don't think you can do as a firefighter try to go out that I don't think you know I need help you know I can't stand up there as a
01:42:54 you know I can't stand up there as a firefighter men and
01:43:00 and Jen to the monkey and the whole my armoire like like was about my back was really but I can raise my arm and they
01:43:12 really but I can raise my arm and they recognized I can't stand up then they just daughter come me out like just I'm a dog say they just like Dora Dora you
01:43:31 a dog say they just like Dora Dora you know step everything Dora coming down and maybe twice the rope to meet the well and you know they say stand up as a
01:43:42 well and you know they say stand up as a saber my body's a raikou this a calm movie lake that's why just today just my step for iku this my body out you know
01:43:56 step for iku this my body out you know about very quick this is your recollection that from from leaving the flat to getting to the outside of the tower it was very quick unbelievable sale just quick really
01:44:07 unbelievable sale just quick really quick i just scream scream scream force up there painted scream scream scream ism downstair you know just tap for me
01:44:19 ism downstair you know just tap for me shoulder and they put on the wheelchair luckily one one firefighter brought me my money wheelchair for me so they go that's houses yeah when I sat down same
01:44:34 that's houses yeah when I sat down same one firefighter was try to push it aside but I recognized projector already
01:44:45 but I recognized projector already falling down on the ground and some over some mobizen object uh you know still you know like looks like a hot you know
01:45:00 you know like looks like a hot you know no fire like a hole and the smoke come coming but really big opposite then he pushed me Susan
01:45:11 pushed me Susan you know enterance I was just wonder if hit this object I'm dying you know and only city just he push and the push just
01:45:24 only city just he push and the push just that I was that's it he pushed through blast your budget luckily don't put on my right hand aside really huge you're like God this disc size like a disc and
01:45:37 like God this disc size like a disc and the smaller part falling down but I was a Seleucia then I saw the two fire
01:45:48 then I saw the two fire mg around a bunch I was a firefighter and he pushing me I think 20 mega just the corner was a grand fell tower he
01:46:00 the corner was a grand fell tower he left to me there but I asked where should I go where did to my children well my where is my children please tell me where is my children but no where
01:46:11 me where is my children but no where should i he doesn't know just lift it you know can I ask just two questions about being outside the tower they you've you've been bought out they
01:46:22 you've you've been bought out they firefighters brought out to a wheelchair when you first got out of there out of the tower did anyone ask you for a flat number of floor number my second
01:46:35 number of floor number my second question then is and I I don't need you to bring it up what it's in paragraph 35 of your first statement but what you say is that you you had a conversation with
01:46:47 is that you you had a conversation with a police officer which resulted in him taking you to the Medical Center do you remember if that police officer or anyone at the medical said that them he asked me but bikini Adan asked so that
01:47:02 asked me but bikini Adan asked so that ask and he at what information did he ask again he asked for support and the police officer but no one know well we're in order to tend to go or like where did cell tower
01:47:15 where did cell tower I was basically you know at a time is while you have an injured you know uncle the twisty and maybe my body shape was a
01:47:26 the twisty and maybe my body shape was a funny and Portia was honey that's right you know where should I take am bonanza you know they don't know they really don't know where is the point that the
01:47:37 don't know where is the point that the rescues are people where is the injured person take it absolutely no one don't know just just remember time and say it after me
01:47:47 after me grant fertilize example that's war I was at this distance I was a space I think all of us in a 30-minute lifting me because this rope I can go up a can
01:48:01 me because this rope I can go up a can go up I saw you know so many stuff falling down on me is well smaller parts but I can see the people something maybe way before the sheets or something I can
01:48:13 way before the sheets or something I can I guess it but you know fool its I'm can see back some will be connector like
01:48:21 being or can I take you back just my last question I hope just to the police office D ask you for your flats number and your floor number and your name details and police or firefighters I
01:48:37 details and police or firefighters I starting for explaining he asked me I was flat tonight I'm you know just come out the grand vitara I'm looking for my children and what's your name like was a
01:48:49 children and what's your name like was a little bit the conversation but everyone really showed the conversation they don't know they left and they have a place to stay they can't go help each
01:49:02 place to stay they can't go help each according like everyone bunch of group and there I asked to help but they didn't you know some of them can I say I
01:49:13 didn't you know some of them can I say I can say or like I saw the stuff I'm not quite sure what you want to say like
01:49:25 quite sure what you want to say like firefighter is a selfie themself and they sit down or lay down satara's I was shout out to them why are you DUII you
01:49:38 shout out to them why are you DUII you know supposed to be rescue there I keep telling them what are you doing to cruise a photo and the selfie yourself oh my god shame yourself I was a quite done with the actor point but you know
01:49:52 done with the actor point but you know they say you know studio my supervisor someone you know still I have to put put two here but that we can go inside so what they explained to you was the best supervisor was they were waiting for their supervisor yeah then what 44 more
01:50:06 their supervisor yeah then what 44 more than 40 people but and to bunch of people nearby sir you know Ohio sir left and the good in grass save sick thumbs a radom and I was
01:50:18 grass save sick thumbs a radom and I was a really disappointed I think so that's the firefighters nice Wi-Fi days as well but I was really disappointed I was
01:50:29 but I was really disappointed I was weary and what's going on you know people's here I think you can I don't worry I think I think we've got that can I just I just want to check my notes but
01:50:43 I just I just want to check my notes but I think miss Toya she met Lewis I don't have any further questions for you sir I think I need the usual usual break just to check if anybody else has any further questions well it's usually convenient
01:50:56 questions well it's usually convenient that we have a short break mr. bellos Oh mr. Ramos has got to the end of his questions but sometimes on reflection there are further things that he needs to ask you so we'll have a ten minute
01:51:08 to ask you so we'll have a ten minute break and same as before don't talk to anyone about your evidence when they're out of the room and you can simply get out without too much difficulty I hope
01:51:24 all right we'll go to the ocean oven and we'll come back at 22
01:51:35 well done very good at that
01:51:55 alright mr. Rawat 22 one stretch of doing that okay
02:02:11 yes I mentioned you've got one or two questions yes of course
02:03:13 all right you ready to answer a couple more questions let me just do this
02:04:03 no no they rushed it worried right now yes all right thank you very much yes mr. right Thank You mr. chairman mr. Shima Luis think thank you for coming
02:04:15 Shima Luis think thank you for coming back and I'm going to try and keep the questions very short so that we don't detain you [Music]
02:04:23 [Music] it's I've been asked to just deal with two matters with you the first is in relation to the windows in your flat yes you've mentioned that you could
02:04:35 yes you've mentioned that you could smell smoke on that night before the fire did you have problems with drafts by using there's a time and the one what
02:04:47 by using there's a time and the one what was there
02:04:48 was there that's picture in the fifth the Honda side the room they have a big window a lot like a cop or panel over the window so winter times are impossible to say it
02:05:01 so winter times are impossible to say it if we still put on the central heating impossible because the rafter come in non-stop I was raised a position for the TM o welcome
02:05:14 TM o welcome razzuma Marty meierotto faced I'm sorry to interrupt you I just want to just try and focus on what the windows were like in June 2017 and if I go back to you
02:05:26 in June 2017 and if I go back to you that picture I think it's your plan I WS 9:07 page one please
02:05:37 think it'll come up on the screen I hope mm-hmm
02:05:42 mm-hmm [Music]
02:05:44 [Music] you had three bedrooms in the flat yes and you you made specific reference to a left-hand room is that the bedroom that's on the left-hand side of that picture yes and was that the one that
02:05:57 picture yes and was that the one that had particular difficulties particular difficulty because massive windows a hub and maybe one two three four twelve of
02:06:10 and maybe one two three four twelve of panel where did the drafts come in oho every single corner was a window like what door after sound becomes was
02:06:21 like what door after sound becomes was non-stop if you know windy day still I can hear the sound if windy days are coming
02:06:29 coming you know directory then I was comforting about it you know ladies our position because you know tour after coming little bit funny but at all totally not
02:06:42 little bit funny but at all totally not fit to the window I was a keeper Towser you know and lucky mouth office manager can I take you now to the next topic I
02:06:53 can I take you now to the next topic I want to just look you show you please at the the first page of the transcript of your 999 call which is lfb 5:06 one
02:07:10 we looked at this a while ago it's the first page of the transcript of your call and it tells us the time that the call was answered which is 136 and 23 in
02:07:23 call was answered which is 136 and 23 in the morning and it tells us that it lasted 30 minutes and 20 seconds so and I'm sure there'll be others here to correct my maths but that means the call ended about half an hour later so at 206
02:07:35 ended about half an hour later so at 206 20 do you understand oh yes now I showed you the page of that transcript and I can do it again if you wanted but what
02:07:48 can do it again if you wanted but what that page suggests that last page was as at the end of the cause when the firefighters were knocking on your door did you remember that yes and I think you told us that your recollection was
02:08:01 you told us that your recollection was it was very shortly after the call ended that the firefighters arrived so we've got that time of 206 20 we know from cameras in the building that you left
02:08:14 cameras in the building that you left you were taken out and left the tower at 210 50 so about four and a half minutes later but in your mind how much time passed between the first arrival of
02:08:27 passed between the first arrival of firefighters at your door and your evacuation and when you left the building
02:08:33 building this is of course a you know I was I thought 15 or 10 minutes or might attend or five minutes I felt very wrong
02:08:45 or five minutes I felt very wrong because I shall take over capital then I saw that way you know my life you know what maybe in a sailing foreigner maybe
02:08:57 what maybe in a sailing foreigner maybe I was really panic little bit panic but I felt very wrong so you're thinking ready it felt a very long time very long time thank you thank you no I thought oh
02:09:09 time thank you thank you no I thought oh my - I don't know 15 10 minutes or five minutes like you know I was nervous that's why I saw - 15 minutes per state to say might only take about ten minutes
02:09:20 to say might only take about ten minutes or five minutes you know I was written because I thought I'm very stressful yeah I didn't thought about the firefighter left to me along well thank you very much for that that's enormous
02:09:32 you very much for that that's enormous ly helpful mr. chairman I've got no further questions and so what I would like to do is just to thank mr. Schumann Lewis for coming today and giving her evidence yes well so and I am very
02:09:45 evidence yes well so and I am very grateful to you for coming along to give your evidence I think it's probably been quite a big challenge for you and I think you've made a big effort to come and do it your evidence about what went
02:09:57 and do it your evidence about what went on in your flat and in your part of the building is very helpful to us so we're very grateful to you for coming along anyway it's all over now as far as giving evidence is concerned you're free to go and if you'd like to
02:10:09 you're free to go and if you'd like to go to the our show she'll look after you all right thank you very much
02:10:51 well mr. Rummel it's ten to one what do you do know I asked first slightly early lunch but our next witness is scheduled
02:11:02 lunch but our next witness is scheduled to start at two o'clock yes it wouldn't make sense to start the fresh witness at this point so we'll break now and resume at two o'clock and look forward to hearing from the next witness then thank
02:11:13 hearing from the next witness then thank you thank you all very much two times