Testimony from Richard Fletcher, resident of Flat 131 (16th floor), describing his family's escape from Grenfell Tower on the night of the fire.
00:00:02 yes whistling good afternoon mr. chairman may I call now Richard Fletcher please yes thank you
00:00:45 the first idea she was having true true
00:00:52 thank you very much mr. Fletcher all right
00:00:58 all right yes mr. Rohit good afternoon mr. Fletcher
00:01:01 Fletcher can we start by or can I start by asking you to give the inquiry your full name please Richard played on Fletcher thank you can I move on by first of all
00:01:12 you can I move on by first of all thanking you for coming to give evidence to us today we're very grateful first for the witness statement you provided to us but also secondly for your willingness to come and continue to
00:01:24 willingness to come and continue to assist the inquiry with its work just some preliminary matters please firstly
00:01:35 some preliminary matters please firstly we everyone here will recognize that it is difficult asking residents of the tower to go back and think and answer questions about 14th of June it is
00:01:47 questions about 14th of June it is important that you take your time if you need a break at any time please just say so and we'll stop and the last thing is that hopefully if my questions will be
00:02:00 that hopefully if my questions will be short and straightforward but if at any time I ask something that you don't follow or don't understand just tell me and I'll put the question in a different way off the focus of what I'm going to
00:02:11 way off the focus of what I'm going to ask you about today is on what the inquiries become describes as phase 1 which is what happened on the night before we go on what we next need to do
00:02:23 before we go on what we next need to do as the formalities to put your statement into the record could we have please iws 5 zeros 9 1 3 page 1 mr. Fletcher if I
00:02:35 5 zeros 9 1 3 page 1 mr. Fletcher if I explain to you that's the first page of the witness statement that you've provided specifically to the inquiry and obviously you can see it on the screen in front of you prepare if you prefer
00:02:46 in front of you prepare if you prefer paper there is a bundle in front of you and you can go find a copy of the statement there could we go to page 24 in that statement please
00:03:01 can see that under the heading statement of truth there's the date of the 20th of May 2018 and a signature can you confirm
00:03:12 May 2018 and a signature can you confirm that that's your signature please that's my signature have you had an opportunity to go over your statement recently that's not yet and can you confirm that the contents of the statements are true yes mr. Chen for
00:03:26 the statements are true yes mr. Chen for the record there are no exhibits to put into the record right thank you let's go back then to page 1 of the statement of paragraph 5 please
00:03:46 if we pick it up with paragraph five mr. Fletcher
00:03:51 Fletcher by June 2017 you'd lived in Grenville tower for approximately 16 years is that right yes and at that time June 2017 you
00:04:02 right yes and at that time June 2017 you were living there with your wife hymanot cushaw and your daughter who was aged 6 at the time is that right that's right yes
00:04:11 yes were you a tenant yes and and who did you have the tenancy with auntie mo in
00:04:24 you have the tenancy with auntie mo in your statement you described converting the flat from a one-bedroom flat to the two-bedroom flat to include a second bedroom for your daughter could we have please m83 zeroes one to five nine three
00:04:39 please m83 zeroes one to five nine three and page 12 of the of that document if I just explained mr. Fletcher what we're looking at is a outlined plan of the
00:04:50 looking at is a outlined plan of the layout of the fourth floor but it's the same layout for all the floors as one goes up so it matches what your floor would be on this plan we can expand it
00:05:03 would be on this plan we can expand it flat one three one would be what's what's identified there as flat one do you have it it's just in the middle there behind the stairwell isn't it yeah and that is the conventional layout
00:05:18 and that is the conventional layout where you've got a one-bedroom flat so you've got bedroom next to kitchen next to lounge if you could refer to can you indicate where you created the second bedroom for your daughter those I'm in
00:05:31 bedroom for your daughter those I'm in to get it here or public if you want whichever you prefer it's place
00:05:40 so you took a portion of the living room off and made a bedroom yes it's marked up on the drawing yes and if
00:05:54 it's marked up on the drawing yes and if we stick to that plan did you make any other modifications to the flat which would make it different from what we see that was the only modification but
00:06:05 that was the only modification but actually at the time of the fire it wasn't being used as a bedroom my daughter didn't sleep there so we tried it but didn't as you work and if we
00:06:17 it but didn't as you work and if we could just look again using the plan can you just describe the route that you would have to take to get to the stairwell
00:06:30 our front doors here father is here come out
00:06:35 out it's an right turn right thank you
00:06:42 now we know grandpa had lifts but did you ever have occasions to use the stairwell many occasions and on those occasions when you would have to use the
00:06:55 occasions when you would have to use the stairwell how long would it take for you to get from your front door to the door leading into the stairwell seconds and
00:07:06 leading into the stairwell seconds and do you remember the door to that stairwell opening out into the stairwell or opening into the hoods inwards into the stairwell no towards us towards ice
00:07:17 the stairwell no towards us towards ice so you would have to pull it towards you yes and before we leave the plan we can see there that nearby were flats too and
00:07:29 see there that nearby were flats too and flats three so that will be flat one three two and three one two three three and we can see on there that I think we we don't need you to point out but there their front doors would open out into
00:07:41 their front doors would open out into the same area that your front door would wouldn't it yes pretty much we're going to jump around a little bit in your statement so I'm going to now take you
00:07:52 statement so I'm going to now take you to page 21 of it and I WS 9 1 3 21 please
00:08:05 it just expand paragraph 1 1 3
00:08:16 we know that there was a refurbishment of the tower did you get a new flat door as part of that refurbishment we did yes and taking you back to June 2017 were
00:08:27 and taking you back to June 2017 were there any gaps around the door no so there's for example no gaps between the base of the door and the floor no did the door have a letterbox yes did
00:08:38 no did the door have a letterbox yes did it have an automatic closer it was broken it originally had and then it was replaced and it broke and then was actually never replaced so no we didn't have at the time of the fire no you know
00:08:49 have at the time of the fire no you know but originally it did have money fitted it so taking you back to June mm and you had a door without a working closer yes
00:09:01 had a door without a working closer yes what did you have to do to shut the door physically shut the door and it was it did you have to pull it too hard or was it something that closed quite easily it was somebody who closed pretty easily
00:09:14 and I just just need to ask you if you can just to clarify one detail in paragraph one one three because there you've referred to our bkc coming and
00:09:26 you've referred to our bkc coming and doing works on the door will you be more accurate to say that it would have been the TM oh that would have done that yes
00:09:42 let's look please a paragraph 1 1 5 which has just starts bottom of the page
00:09:55 what you mentioned there is the experience of having a power search and that was in 2016 in June 2017 were you
00:10:08 that was in 2016 in June 2017 were you experiencing power surges in your flat no we had a probability electricity but not a problem with the power surges we couldn't find the correct company that
00:10:20 couldn't find the correct company that was dealing with the power and my wife had made a number of complaints because in our fly that time was a key mid system it wasn't working correctly so he said what kind of system Akemi the
00:10:31 said what kind of system Akemi the system and they weren't charging us it wasn't working correctly right so my wife had gone to I think it was Eon at the time and I said to them that anymore you're not charging us and we don't want to get a bill it in 12 months time for
00:10:43 to get a bill it in 12 months time for five grand so can you sort it out for us and we never got to bond with it basically but at least you weren't cut off let's look
00:10:57 at least you weren't cut off let's look now please up the next page page 22 and let's look at paragraph 1 1 7
00:11:09 there you mentioned you had an extractor fan in both of the bathroom and the kitchen and you say due to the extractor fan not being installed correctly there used to be a draught which came through it just so that we can be clear which
00:11:22 it just so that we can be clear which extractor fan are you referring to there the kitchen and how did the draught come through that extractor fan as far as I understand it the air was supposed to blow out from our kitchen outside but
00:11:36 blow out from our kitchen outside but the air came in both directions so if the extractor wasn't physically on be able to come the other way so it didn't block the air and so if it what the air shaft wasn't on there was constantly a breeze coming in and did you when did
00:11:51 breeze coming in and did you when did you feel that breeze whenever there was a wind but and was it when you did you need to have a win for that to happen I mean did it vary at different times lobster cleaner and was it did you have
00:12:03 lobster cleaner and was it did you have a kind of kitchen window where you had the extractor fan fitted in into the window itself I think it was fitted into the war was the window
00:12:25 could I take you back now please to paragraph one one two
00:12:38 you say there is only when we were leaving the flat and opened the door that I believe the car alarm went off in our flat I do not remember the smoke alarm going off in our flat does that
00:12:50 alarm going off in our flat does that mean you had both a fire alarm in your flat and a smoke alarm I suppose a lot the father's considered a smoke alarm right so how many smoke alarms did you
00:13:01 right so how many smoke alarms did you have in the flat that I remember or one in the hallway no in the kitchen itself one in the hallway so there's just one in the flat as I remember it yeah and
00:13:16 you didn't hear we'll go on to the nice and a moment but you didn't hear any smoke alarm from your flat that night is
00:13:27 smoke alarm from your flat that night is that right no when we left the flat because we left the door open and then when the smoke all rushed into our flat end of that set off the alarm and our flat right but prior to that there was
00:13:38 flat right but prior to that there was no long they were silent all right well I'll come back to that when we I asked your questions about events the night
00:13:46 could I ask you just to be shown a photograph and mr. chairman art I give the usual warning it's a photograph we've seen before it's not distressing but it was off the interior of the
00:13:58 but it was off the interior of the towers on fire can we have please be la three four zero two five one three mr. Fletcher if I could explain to you
00:14:10 mr. Fletcher if I could explain to you this is a photograph that's taken on floor six what you can see in the ceiling is a white detector can you
00:14:21 ceiling is a white detector can you remember if there were similar detectors in the communal area on your floor I can't remember that it's more likely
00:14:30 okay can we go back please two
00:14:35 page three in the statement in paragraph eleven
00:14:54 just to give you some background mr. Fletcher in this is the part of the statement way you deal with the events of the night and I say that on the 13th of June you use at home watching
00:15:05 of June you use at home watching television and that night your wife had gone to bed your daughter was already asleep and if we pick it up at paragraph 11 I want to
00:15:17 we pick it up at paragraph 11 I want to just you you might want to just make a quick correction but you say whilst watching TV you heard a fire engine arrived followed by a second fire engine and this was at some time approaching 1 p.m. that should be one am rather than 1
00:15:32 p.m. that should be one am rather than 1 p.m. yes accepting that it is 1 a.m. can you help us with just how you how you
00:15:43 you help us with just how you how you knew what time it was when you saw these fire engines because of the time that my wife like to work I'm told what time to mollify to bed and I'd briefly flicked up the TV remote and it came up with the
00:15:55 up the TV remote and it came up with the time I think I the time I checked it was about 1250 so I sort of had it on 5 10 minutes onto it that's what got to 1 1 a.m. thank you um can we expand that now
00:16:09 a.m. thank you um can we expand that now to on the same page to look at paragraphs 12 and 13 please what you say in these paragraphs
00:16:20 in these paragraphs mr. Fletcher is that you opened up the window in the living room looked out and you could see three fire engines and then you saw a fourth fire engine arrived soon afterwards and you estimate
00:16:36 arrived soon afterwards and you estimate that after looking out and we pick it up paragraph 13 after looking out of the window you then went to bed and this was around 1:00 to 1:15 a.m. again just help
00:16:51 around 1:00 to 1:15 a.m. again just help us with how you're working out the time at this point okay so the first fire engine in my estimation was about one o'clock well if you if you look I'm not sure what time I went to bed but estimated was around 1:00
00:17:03 estimated was around 1:00 to 115 so you've got you've been woken you've got the arrival of the first fire engines at 1:00 a.m. you then see when you look out the window you see more vehicles and then you give an estimate
00:17:16 vehicles and then you give an estimate you went back to bed at that or you went to bed at that point I'm just asking for your assistance just with how you are timing things okay initially I believe I heard the first fire engine about one o'clock one a.m. excuse me second third
00:17:29 o'clock one a.m. excuse me second third I shut the window because it was all very warm like that night so I shut the window cut very noisy close the blinds went back to the movie and I watch maybe
00:17:40 went back to the movie and I watch maybe 5 10 minutes of movie this sound once the window was closed it drowned out most of these sounded fire engines but I'd already seen the movie already so of who let me go off the bed so that was
00:17:53 who let me go off the bed so that was about I watch about another 10 minutes of the movie 10 15 minutes of the movie brush my teeth that's how I get to about 115 thank you if we bring up and go back
00:18:05 115 thank you if we bring up and go back to met three zeros one two five nine three on page 12 again please and just expound on flat one please
00:18:27 you've got your lounge there and in your flat all the windows face the same direction can you indicate which window you would have been looking out from up
00:18:40 you would have been looking out from up here yes please
00:18:46 so you moved from your living room to your kitchen initially when I got sort of fire yeah no lady when I saw the fire sorry when I saw her the parity yeah and
00:19:05 sorry when I saw her the parity yeah and then from there you then moved into you
00:19:09 and then from there I am Caitlin move another ten minutes then I went a bit thank you now we know that that those
00:19:21 thank you now we know that that those windows face East so what can you see from you the windows of your home what could you see that wasn't that was a nice thing we had a really nice view we had a view looking back toward central London they could see the London Eye cuz
00:19:32 London they could see the London Eye cuz him Lennon will he can saw that stuff from our window because we were also pretty high up so the fee was so much here and in terms of buildings that were closer to you what sort of buildings did
00:19:45 closer to you what sort of buildings did you look out on we were looking down on the my cabinet and to the slightly to the right you can see the Support Center
00:19:56 now one of the points you you make in your statement is that at the time that you assumed that the fire engines had arrived because someone had got stuck in the left was that a common occurrence
00:20:09 the left was that a common occurrence not common but it it had happened before and when it had happened you'd seen fire engines turn out yes when you went to bed that night were the windows in the
00:20:22 bed that night were the windows in the flat open door closed and I closed them because of the sound of fire engines so you chat every window in your flat yes
00:20:34 and let's take you back to your state and please and let's look at paragraph 14 if I pick it up at the second
00:20:47 14 if I pick it up at the second sentence you explained that you it took you about 15 minutes to fall asleep and then you continue but very shortly after at about 1:30 a.m. I was woken up not by
00:20:58 at about 1:30 a.m. I was woken up not by the sound of a smoke alarm but by a popping sound in the background I thought I could hear something going pop pop pop I did not know that sound was part of a dream I had just I adjust or
00:21:10 part of a dream I had just I adjust or if it was real natural was very drowsy having just fallen into sleep once obviously the sound was loud enough to wake you up out of your sleep once you
00:21:23 wake you up out of your sleep once you were fully awake how loud was this pop sound it sounded like a firework was outside the window but they'd been the ground didn't sound as if it was directly outside my window it just
00:21:34 directly outside my window it just sounded like a firework being it off on the ground and could you tell where it was coming from did not initially know
00:21:45 was coming from did not initially know it were just but it was continuous so that was what was the concern was it kept going it wasn't one or two pops it was a continuous thing and so you're woken up by the noise you get out of bed
00:21:56 woken up by the noise you get out of bed and all you can hear is a continuous sound that's right yeah and did it appear to be coming in from out outside your windows but further down on close to the ground a distance away
00:22:10 at that time when you woke up could you smell any smoke in the flat No aside from the popping sound was there anything else unusual No
00:22:27 can we go to page four of your statement please
00:22:32 please paragraph 16
00:22:41 what you've described in this paragraph is looking out your bedroom window and seeing an orange streak on the side of the building when you're looking out of
00:22:53 the building when you're looking out of that window is that Street to the left or to the right to left
00:23:05 could you see how high up it was going it'll look like a loan for the building I'm sorry I didn't quite catch the answer it looked like the length of the building and when you say that did he
00:23:16 building and when you say that did he look as if it was above your your little it was two left and above me could you feel any heat at this time no and you
00:23:29 feel any heat at this time no and you don't remember at this point smelling any smoke or any lights look there was no burning of the smoke so all there was was just this streak yes all it was was a popping sound and when I woke up I
00:23:42 a popping sound and when I woke up I opened the blinds I looked up and I saw this Orange Street going outside the building and that's the reason why I woke up my wife because I didn't know what it was if we look on the same page
00:23:55 what it was if we look on the same page at paragraph 18 please
00:24:04 you've described just in the preceding paragraph awaking up your wife and then you continue we moved to the kitchen to look out the kitchen window to see if we could get a better view as this was closer to where the light was we still
00:24:16 closer to where the light was we still can see what it was so we moved to the living room right next to the orange light
00:24:21 light I opened the main blind in the living room so saw fire along the whole length of the building from the 19th floor down to the bottom of the tower so is the
00:24:32 to the bottom of the tower so is the case you had blinds on your windows and so it was at this point you lifted the blind and was it were able to properly see what was outside that's right yeah so initially we saw it in the bedroom but we were distance away from her so
00:24:44 but we were distance away from her so you couldn't tell what it was we moved to the kitchen so we're a little closer open those blinds it was a little clearer and then we moved again to the living room now we were maybe 10 12 meters away from it and
00:24:57 were maybe 10 12 meters away from it and we could see it more clearly and it took maybe 5 10 seconds of looking at it before the penny dropped as to what it was or what we thought it was at least and what did you think it was initially
00:25:10 and what did you think it was initially I thought was a firework I thought someone I left a firework in there in a flap and it was going on the side of the building then I thought that it's petrol I saw was lit some petrol
00:25:22 it's petrol I saw was lit some petrol going on inside the building because it wasn't burning it was just a light and after we looked at it for the 10 seconds or so we both loved each other me realize that it was more than likely
00:25:34 realize that it was more than likely fire and what you've said is that it's the long the length of the building from the 19th floor down how could you tell that it was it had reached the 19th notice thus I said that in a statement
00:25:46 notice thus I said that in a statement but I can't be as specific as there I can say was the 19th floor it could have been the 20th floor could have been a 22nd floor it was above us to the left but for me to say exactly what floor is on I cannot other it was you you opened
00:25:59 on I cannot other it was you you opened up your window and looked out know
00:26:04 and it's obviously there at your floor level knows how close was it to the window that you were looking out of
00:26:16 listen from where I'm sitting now to
00:26:22 pretty much where you were from you to me yeah but in my talent could you at that time then feel any heat I didn't
00:26:33 that time then feel any heat I didn't feel anything I was trying to figure out what it was so no I couldn't really hear that stage name okay you've told us how you with your wife moved from window to window um did you notice anything any
00:26:49 window um did you notice anything any smell inside your flat or any smoke inside your flat no smell Muskoka not that no like that stage we go please just it's on the same page but let's
00:27:01 just it's on the same page but let's look at paragraph 20
00:27:08 in this paragraph you've explained mr. Fletcher that your wife went to the front door and opened the front door which would obviously access the
00:27:21 which would obviously access the communal hallway um and you say you were you were behind her mm-hmm before she opened the door was there any smoke coming through the front door into
00:27:32 smoke coming through the front door into your flat no any smoke coming through the letterbox no but what you then say is that she opened the front door thick
00:27:43 is that she opened the front door thick black smoke rushed into the flat from the hallway obviously your wife's at the door
00:27:49 door where were you there at agonda and how long did she open the front door for a split second maybe two seconds the most
00:28:06 other than its its color and thickness can you tell us anything else about that smoke what I can tell you it's not like in the movies when you were see smoking it's you can see above the the top of it
00:28:18 it's you can see above the the top of it and you can see the person this is pitch black you can't see anything it's as if I close my eyes and when she opened door they and then we could feel the heat from beef from whatever it was
00:28:29 the heat from beef from whatever it was from the fire so she opened the door I didn't even know she was running to the door she we were we were standing in the living room looking at this flame and the frying of it she was running to the
00:28:40 the frying of it she was running to the horse she was at the door I was just following her and before I knew she'd open the door I would have checked that the hubachek myself but back of my hand
00:28:51 the hubachek myself but back of my hand for a heat on the door and on the rest of it but my wife didn't do that she just opened the door and as I said it's not like I see in the movies where you can see anything you can't see anything we couldn't see a thing
00:29:02 we couldn't see a thing so she quickly slammed the door and then we realized that we were in big big big trouble and obviously I think that night
00:29:16 trouble and obviously I think that night before you woken up or before you were disturb from watching television by the sound of fire engines arriving were there any problems with the lights on the landing on the the communal hallway
00:29:28 the landing on the the communal hallway no say that they were on on the night of the fire or I didn't well on the night of the fire with a lack were there any problems with
00:29:39 with a lack were there any problems with the landing lights and a little night at the fire you can see a thing so where do they want a lot it make no difference you can see I'm sorry I'll the way I phrased the question before you noticed anything amiss an earlier
00:29:50 you noticed anything amiss an earlier point in the evening what were the weather as far as you were aware with the lights and the communal hallway working the majority damn at least yeah but then when you even for that split
00:30:02 but then when you even for that split second when the door opened you could see nothing but thick black smoke yes and
00:30:11 if you take it from sort of the ceiling down to the floor did the smoke stop at any point all it was a hard to see them and you mentioned that your wife just
00:30:24 and you mentioned that your wife just opened the door but it didn't touch the door fur or feel it if it was hot or anything don't you feel any heat coming from the hallway when she open the door yes and can you tell us a little bit
00:30:35 yes and can you tell us a little bit more about that things it was not burning hot but it was 10 degrees hotter than it was in the flat it was a hot night that night particularly was up was a warm night so was stuffy in the flat
00:30:47 a warm night so was stuffy in the flat anyway because I had closed the windows because of the noise of fire engines when she opened the door if the flat was 20 to 23 degrees and was maybe 3035
00:30:58 20 to 23 degrees and was maybe 3035 degrees when she open the door but you felt it as she opened the door as if there's heat coming from there's a fire just outside the door and even though um
00:31:10 just outside the door and even though um your wife slammed the door shut and did it some of that smoke come into the flat a lot of the smoke came to a flat and into the hallway into the hallway of off light of your flat yes and did the smoke
00:31:22 light of your flat yes and did the smoke have any effect on you no what about your wife no if we look at the next page page 5 please and just
00:31:36 the next page page 5 please and just pick up paragraph if we could pick up expand paragraphs 21 through 224 please
00:31:46 what you say is that you I did not hear the sound of any smoke alarms and I just want to clarify which alarms you're thinking of is that the alarm in your own property there were most maqams period and the
00:31:57 there were most maqams period and the hallway that we could hit a smoking are coming from the hallway or from our flats so when the smoke rush into our flat it didn't set off the fire alarm that was in the hallway of our flat or
00:32:09 that was in the hallway of our flat or the one in the communal area it was it was silent and did you expect there to be an audible alarm smoke alarm in the communal area yes and what was it that that gave you the view that there should
00:32:21 that gave you the view that there should be that alarm I had a conversation maybe a month before the fire with one of my neighbors on my floor and we were laughing about the work that right and
00:32:33 laughing about the work that right and had done the the contractors we had mentioned the fact that they had spent so much money on err on the reefer with a building and he said to me they had done a good job and I said to you being
00:32:44 done a good job and I said to you being ridiculous they've spent upwards of 10 million pounds refurb in the building surely everything is working smoke alarms I assume that yes there were sprinklers in the burn I didn't know until after the fact that there were no
00:32:55 until after the fact that there were no sprinklers I didn't know that the fire alarm weren't working in our burn until after the fact so I was saying to him my neighbor that I thought if they've invested so much money in the building
00:33:08 invested so much money in the building everything's working that's what I assumed so your expectation was that if there were smoke in that communal hallway an alarm would sound yes did you
00:33:23 hallway an alarm would sound yes did you know anything about how the communal hallway was ventilated I had noticed a large fence a couple of large mines in a cornea and did you ever hear any noises from those large vents
00:33:34 from those large vents yes loud costs of them air coming through so heroically yeah when you were using the hallway to get to and from your home did you did you feel the
00:33:46 your home did you did you feel the movement of air not every time but occasionally you would feel it yes and
00:33:54 can you tell us when what when would with those occasions are when would you hear that or feel those logical air in the very concert so it
00:34:05 logical air in the very concert so it wasn't as if it was a particular season of the year or a particular time of day no if we look at paragraph 22 you say
00:34:19 no if we look at paragraph 22 you say that you and your wife walked back into your living room didn't turn the lights on it was dark and the room was now smoke-filled but the flame from outside
00:34:30 smoke-filled but the flame from outside was illuminating the flat so we could see each other and was the smoke that you're referring to was that just the smoke that had come in from the front door the weight is written heiresses is
00:34:42 door the weight is written heiresses is not correct the room wasn't smoke-filled well can you tell us what conditions were like in the living room the living room was there was smoke that come in the living room from my wife initially
00:34:54 the living room from my wife initially opening the front door but it wasn't smoke-filled there was smoke but I could see my wife clear enough and obviously you know you had your the windows as
00:35:06 you know you had your the windows as well where you looked out and seen these streak was any smoke coming in to the through into the flat from anywhere else other than the front door no what was
00:35:21 other than the front door no what was the temperature like in in your living room at that time like I said you'd be really we'd noticed oh I noticed it was getting slightly warmer but it wasn't it
00:35:32 getting slightly warmer but it wasn't it wasn't ridiculously odd it was cooler than the heat that you'd noticed on the communal hallway yes could have flames are still a distance away from us well
00:35:45 are still a distance away from us well if we pick up on that in in paragraph 10 to you you you refer to the flame from outside can you just just clarify for us what are you meaning there that is it's
00:35:56 what are you meaning there that is it's still a reference to the streak that you'd seen that's right yeah did you see any flames closer to the windows of your property so what I'd notice this was all it's all happened a really quick space of time but um
00:36:07 of time but um it looked like this Orange Street these flames were coming towards us so it was going from left to right so it was coming towards us like just
00:36:26 jump forward please to the next page page six and we could have paragraphs 28 31 up on the screen
00:36:41 you've set out in your statement in detail mr. Fletcher the barest thought processes you went through about what to do next but you and you and your wife
00:36:53 do next but you and you and your wife had a discussion and you came to a decision that you would need to leave right what you say and it's just it's
00:37:04 right what you say and it's just it's just the last sentence of paragraph 29 if you look at it well we knew that nobody was coming and realized we had to figure this out for ourselves how did you know that nobody was coming because
00:37:16 you know that nobody was coming because we were on a sixteenth floor we realized that it was gonna take him a period of time to get through the smoke because we had seen how thick the smoke was and because the streak the flames were
00:37:29 because the streak the flames were coming towards us it felt like we didn't have a lot of time if we had sat that we didn't call anyone if we had called the fire brigade or call anyone we felt like we had minutes as opposed to hours to
00:37:42 we had minutes as opposed to hours to stay in a flat so we didn't think anyone's gonna come to us in time basically and you've said in your statement that you were you were aware of the notices by the lift weren't you right yeah and you were
00:37:53 weren't you right yeah and you were aware of the the policy that you should stay in your property we'd made a joke about it maybe a month before the fire yeah and what was your position in
00:38:04 yeah and what was your position in relation to that policy my wife and I were taking my daughter's school one morning and we noticed a notices and then we read it and I said to my wife if
00:38:16 then we read it and I said to my wife if there's a fire imma be the last person to sit here and wait for the fire to come and catch me so I always thought the term it had there been a fire regards fuels in our flat on our floor on our side the building wherever there
00:38:29 on our side the building wherever there was a fire we were gonna leave so whenever a position that we were gonna say in a flat that wasn't everything what you say and so start a paragraph 30 I've had lots of fire training through
00:38:40 I've had lots of fire training through work did that training influence what you decided to do next yes in what way I was able to think a
00:38:52 yes in what way I was able to think a little clearer than maybe my wife maybe some others because I worked a few incidents a few unpleasant incidents at work the day of the the bombing in London at work that
00:39:06 the the bombing in London at work that they work in the transport industry so I I am I'd end up working that 77 I was supposed to be on Russell Square that they end up not being as quite a day so
00:39:20 they end up not being as quite a day so I had been close to a few incidents before I'd seen serious RTC's I've seen fatalities had seen a few things so I was able to think a little bit clearer than maybe someone who haven't seen
00:39:31 than maybe someone who haven't seen something like that before
00:39:40 and if we just to keep the context but what you explained then is that you conclude paragraphs 30 by saying you were trying to figure out the safest way
00:39:52 were trying to figure out the safest way to get out and down from the tower your wife was walking around the living room and you you collected the things that you needed to take with you if we go
00:40:07 you needed to take with you if we go then to page 7 please and look at paragraph 33 to 37 please well 33 36
00:40:25 although you-you-you collected some things you make the point in paragraph 33 that you had no shoes on we're just wearing pajamas and shorts and then you
00:40:37 wearing pajamas and shorts and then you went back to your front door with your wife collecting your your your daughter you say we did not know if the fire was
00:40:48 you say we did not know if the fire was at the front door when we'd open the front door before we'd seen lots of thick black smoke but no flames therefore we thought there was a chance of getting out and down the stairs irrespective of whether there was fire there or not
00:40:59 there or not we knew that down the stairs was our only chance um what your your decision was was that you and your family had to go back out into that communal hallway
00:41:11 go back out into that communal hallway wasn't it right that's right and so you would have to open that front door for a second time wouldn't you that's correct yes before doing that and as you're in your hallway did you notice if any smoke
00:41:24 your hallway did you notice if any smoke was coming into the flat from the front door no smoke was coming flow what about from any other area of the property was there any smoke coming in so we first say at that time there's no signs of
00:41:36 say at that time there's no signs of fire inside the flat there was no signs what what had what we did notice what the flames were coming closer but a flame from the outside of the building that we'd initially seen as opposed to
00:41:47 that we'd initially seen as opposed to it being where you are it was where the judges computer is now so it moved maybe two three feet within a couple of minutes so we knew the time was running
00:42:00 minutes so we knew the time was running out basically
00:42:04 could we look please at how about 37 you set out there what happened next that you've told your
00:42:15 what happened next that you've told your wife to keep her head as low as possible where the air was clearer you say we left and crouched down low and took about three steps we were immediately in thick black smoke and apart from what
00:42:26 thick black smoke and apart from what seemed to be a phone light ahead of us we could not see anything when he then heard our neighbor a Turkish man who was holding the phone with the light told him there was a fine he should get out he had opened the door to his flat and I
00:42:39 he had opened the door to his flat and I shouted that in fire fire fired get out he went back into his flat and slammed shut the door he lived in flat 133 I could not believe that he went back in
00:42:51 could not believe that he went back in now we saw on the map that flat one through the doors flat 133 would be along the line from your front door wouldn't it just taking that paragraph
00:43:05 wouldn't it just taking that paragraph in stages when you say you crouch down low how low did you have to go hands and knees pretty much and even doing that
00:43:21 knees pretty much and even doing that what was the visibility like for you zero well five percent because you couldn't physically see anything but the
00:43:32 couldn't physically see anything but the light from my neighbor's flat and phone you could see that but you couldn't see the shape of him you can see anything I don't know so the the only light source you you could make out as you opened
00:43:44 you you could make out as you opened your front door was any light coming from his front door and and his mobile phone light that's really oh did you protect yourself in a rage you have anything covering your mouths at all no
00:43:56 anything covering your mouths at all no so again it's thick black smoke did that smoke have any physical effect on you No
00:44:06 and this time what was the temperature like in the lobby in the I said I've called it a lobby a communal whole air okay again probably same temperatures we
00:44:17 okay again probably same temperatures we went in earlier maybe mid 30s as far as sentiment and this site of thick black smoke and a hot environment was that
00:44:31 smoke and a hot environment was that immediate fear did you encounter that immediately on opening your front door yes could you hear any noises or sounds in the communal hallway it was silent so
00:44:47 in the communal hallway it was silent so how did you then find your way to the stairs and what was it a case of just holding onto your wife's hand and just feeling your way through what I can tell
00:45:00 feeling your way through what I can tell you is I don't want to sound dramatic but I didn't find my way we were just we just made our way I don't how he made our way because it was stabbing a dog we couldn't see where we were going
00:45:11 couldn't see where we were going it was guestimation when you're approximately where the the door was but I don't know if I took three sets five sets went too far came back I don't I
00:45:22 sets went too far came back I don't I kind of blacked out without it so I don't remember making my way to the door I remember getting into the stairwell but I don't remember the few seconds it
00:45:35 but I don't remember the few seconds it took for us to get from the our flat to the stairwell actually my memories I don't remember a bit not clearly anyway do you remember whether when you got to
00:45:48 do you remember whether when you got to the door that leads into the stairwell whether that door was open or closed it was closed and so were you the person who were you the was it you had to open the door yeah
00:45:59 the door yeah and once you've got into the stairwell did the door automatically close behind you
00:46:04 you yes it did did you see anyone else in the stairwell in the area of the door that Sage's we initially went through
00:46:15 that Sage's we initially went through the doors
00:46:16 the doors we saw someone maybe a flight of stairs below us and says I didn't quite catch enough just below us there was a person a flight of stairs below us right so but
00:46:27 a flight of stairs below us right so but there wasn't anybody on that floor of the stairwell no and the person the flight for stairs below is that the only person you saw on the stairwell at that time he was with someone else well I'll
00:46:38 time he was with someone else well I'll come back to that fine day um can you just you've told us that what you encountered in the communal hallway can you and what were the conditions in the stairwell like it was clear you could
00:46:50 stairwell like it was clear you could see and the lights were on and the air was fresh and you could see what was happening and was any of that smoke that was in the communal hallway coming into the stairwell so what happened was when
00:47:02 the stairwell so what happened was when we got onto the stairwell I looked up and I look down because we weren't sure if we were walking down the stairs into the fire so before we started walking down the stairs I looked down and I
00:47:14 down the stairs I looked down and I looked up and people that were coming from their hallway onto the stairwell they were opening the doors a year and fighters and smoke was coming in as they opened their doors but there wasn't a
00:47:26 opened their doors but there wasn't a source of fire in the stairwell mr. chairman I just noticed the time I'm a good way through I probably be a little
00:47:39 good way through I probably be a little bit more than probably more than more than an additional 10 minutes but perhaps what we could do is I'll if we could have a break now I'll also use that break to see if there's any other questions about this might want me to
00:47:51 questions about this might want me to ask so we don't need to rush that aspect mr. Fletcher we usually have a break after we've been running 45 minutes to an hour would you like a break now no
00:48:02 an hour would you like a break now no problem
00:48:02 problem yeah well well would you rather carry on we can whatever since well why don't you go on for another 10 or 15 minutes and if you haven't finished my 3:15 we'll
00:48:13 if you haven't finished my 3:15 we'll definitely have a all right I'm gonna right by you that's fine you're speaking okay well let's just look at page 8 of your statement
00:48:26 just look at page 8 of your statement and just please expand paragraph 38 39 please
00:48:36 so in paragraph 38 deals with your making it to the stairwell and you say I'd estimate that we entered the stairwell sometimes between 120 and 125
00:48:47 stairwell sometimes between 120 and 125 again if you can just help us with how you're estimating time at this point from the time I went to bed to the time that I woke up to the time that we made
00:48:58 that I woke up to the time that we made the decision to come out the flat I mean from the time that we woke up the time to actually get at the flat nut was that was minutes that was to three minutes tops so that's where I come to estimate
00:49:10 tops so that's where I come to estimate but as far as five to ten minutes get down the stairs closer to five than ten pretty sure of that and you told us that when you got into
00:49:21 and you told us that when you got into the stairwell it was clear could you hear any fans at all no notice no could you feel any movement of air in the stairwell just the heat as people open
00:49:35 stairwell just the heat as people open the emergency exits the access to the stairwell so the warm air would rush in as they opened EMS and the smoke would Russian as well but you didn't feel a nice did you feel any movement of cool
00:49:47 nice did you feel any movement of cool air no not particularly no
00:49:57 we look on the same page just let's go to the bottom paragraph paragraph 45
00:50:09 just summarize that paragraph for you miss Fletcher you explained here that you you took your daughter from from your wife had been carrying her up on to
00:50:20 your wife had been carrying her up on to that point and you then continued that there was smoke coming downwards from the higher floors and then coming up from floors due to people opening the fire doors which was letting
00:50:32 opening the fire doors which was letting the smoke through however the smoke was not so thick that it was not possible to see as we came out of our flat the communal landing directly outside a flat was engulfed in smoke and you could not
00:50:43 was engulfed in smoke and you could not see anything so from where you were what was it that made you conclude that
00:50:54 was it that made you conclude that people that floors high to you were opening the doors how else would a smoke come up so did you and and was it this did you well you could hear the doors closing could hear the doors opening
00:51:05 closing could hear the doors opening closing the fire doors opening closing slamming closed and that was above you as well as built that was both above and below and did you then we then aware of smoke filtering down from above you and
00:51:17 smoke filtering down from above you and also from below yes but we weren't focusing on that was it any different from the smoke that you'd encountered in the communal hallway yeah I couldn't say
00:51:28 the communal hallway yeah I couldn't say we won't examine it I can say now you've told us you could hear doors opening and closing right did you were you aware of people moving on the stairwell above you
00:51:40 people moving on the stairwell above you yes in which were you aware with was it you also your sense of people were coming down towards you or moving away from you coming down and what about below you do you where
00:51:51 and what about below you do you where people say oh well no one was coming up but we saw
00:52:01 so you then began going down the stairwell as you went down the stairs did you see any doors that would exit into communal hallways that were propped
00:52:13 into communal hallways that were propped open in any way no if we go to paragraph 54 which is on page 10 please what
00:52:30 54 which is on page 10 please what you've said there is that when you reach the sixth floor those smoke below us and I thought this was where we were going to have to stop heading down using the
00:52:41 to have to stop heading down using the stairs and jump from a window this is a terrible thought to have to contemplate when you realize it involves your young child
00:52:48 child however thereafter the sixth floor the smoke started to fade slightly and we were able to continue so if just so I can understand it you've you've come
00:53:00 can understand it you've you've come down from the 16th floor and you noticed by the 6th floor that there's smoke below you did you have a sense that there was that the smoke below you was denser than that which you'd come from
00:53:11 denser than that which you'd come from on the same I said the 6th floor but that's that's a guesstimate the one thing is that the numbering of the floors wasn't clear so I was trying to count backwards but at the same time
00:53:23 count backwards but at the same time there were a few people in the stairs and I was carrying my daughter so it said the 6th floor but it may not be the 6th floor maybe an eighth floor maybe the fifth floor I don't know hundra said it was a sixth floor well it was it was a lower floor
00:53:35 floor well it was it was a lower floor it was a proximate listing floor and it looked like someone opened the fire door but as opposed to smoke dispersing quickly it lingered for a bit so my
00:53:48 quickly it lingered for a bit so my thinking was maybe the fire was there and once we caught we were gonna get trapped what methods go any further so we would have to hop off it the floor
00:53:59 we would have to hop off it the floor above and then contemplate jumping so I was trying to count backwards to see how far down we were to see how feasible it was to jump basically
00:54:11 what you do say is that when you were going down the stairs you came across someone called mr. sharp and another person yeah did you see anyone on the
00:54:23 person yeah did you see anyone on the stairs from your floor no one from my Falana and did you did any firefighters pass you in the stairwell we passed the firefighters when we caught two I think
00:54:36 firefighters when we caught two I think it's called us I think the second floor where it was all glass that's where we sort of firefighters not indeed main stairwell now we look in the same page but a paragraph 52 pleats you say I
00:54:49 but a paragraph 52 pleats you say I think one man passed us on his way up to the tower saying he was going to go upwards in the tower you mean he felt this was the best course of action to avoid the fire I did not recognize this
00:55:00 avoid the fire I did not recognize this man heading upstairs I cannot remember if he said anything to me but I assumed that he was saying heading up was to try and escape from the fire below but you decided to just keep going down well although you you
00:55:13 keep going down well although you you didn't recognize him was he a resident of the tower someone who someone who'd been in the tower that night that I can say and did
00:55:26 tower that night that I can say and did you see where he went after he passed you we weren't working to see where people went now can you help us at all can you describe him can you remember anything about this man I can describe the few people that were coming down
00:55:38 the few people that were coming down with us mr. Shaw and his wife Muhammad Rasul he was helping an elderly gentleman and there was a couple of children on the stairwell but when we left or when we were leaving there were
00:55:49 left or when we were leaving there were literally five eight people the most on the stairwell there wasn't many people at all well let's go to page and 11 of
00:56:00 at all well let's go to page and 11 of your statement please
00:56:05 and we have paragraph 58 this going back to answer you gave a few minutes ago about encountering firefighters and you
00:56:17 about encountering firefighters and you explained there where you met firefighters and just so that we can be clear about that encounter did any of
00:56:28 clear about that encounter did any of these firefighters ask you which floor or flat you'd come from did they think knowledge us at all now in your
00:56:39 knowledge us at all now in your statement and I can take you to page if you need it but you say that you left the area at around 150 a.m. had any
00:56:51 the area at around 150 a.m. had any firefighter or police officer asked you which floor or flat you'd come from by the time you left the area no one spoke to us the only person we spoke to a residents that were coming out from the local area who are asking for you were
00:57:03 local area who are asking for you were ok but no official no policemen and firemen no no one on the scene spoke to us now do you hear anyone directing people coming out of the tower to a
00:57:14 people coming out of the tower to a point where they could give details there was no one directing anything went when we left there were no one direct anything was very haphazard at that time
00:57:25 the thing that what upset me annoyed me at the time was when we left the actual building the front door of the building I was described by the earlier witness there was bits of debris that was falling from the building large chunks
00:57:37 falling from the building large chunks of plastic burning plastic and they were dropping close to us they were dropping 10 10 meters away from us maybe and because obviously they drop it from a height they're dropping and they're they're exploding when he hit the ground
00:57:49 they're exploding when he hit the ground and there was no one uh sure in us to be on the right-hand side away from the building that these fallen debris was happening so kind of it's in my statement but I I had made a joke a joke
00:58:01 statement but I I had made a joke a joke a bad joke to my wife that we then survived the burning building and now we're gonna kill by this um falling masonry
00:58:12 mr. Chairman I I have now reached the end of my questions but well that's a good time to have a break isn't it mr. Fletcher we will have a short break now
00:58:23 Fletcher we will have a short break now because mr. Rawat leaves a little opportunity to check but he's asked all the right questions and others may want to suggest other questions we're gonna have a break and we'll come back at
00:58:34 have a break and we'll come back at twenty past three I have to ask you please not to talk to anyone about your evidence when they're out in the room and if you'd like to get with the action now she'll look after you as I say we'll
00:58:45 now she'll look after you as I say we'll resume at 20 past 3:00 Thanks thank you very much
00:59:00 right 25c please
01:13:05 well this relative found small question well there's just one matter that we'll need to cover with with mr. Fletcher that's all right of course
01:13:32 I think it's just too pessimistic thank you very much mr. Fletcher um can i
01:13:43 you very much mr. Fletcher um can i before dealing with one final matter thank you once again for coming to give evidence to us today has been enormous ly helpful thank you um everyone here
01:13:55 ly helpful thank you um everyone here will have read your written statement and the details in that above what you have put in your written statement and above the answers that you've given to the questions I've asked today is there
01:14:08 the questions I've asked today is there anything else that you saw or heard on that night that you think it's important for the Chairman to know I just feel that on the night the fire had there
01:14:20 that on the night the fire had there been someone directing people to come out of the building a lot of the people had been saved had the fire alarms been working on the landings a lot of the people have been saved just the fact
01:14:31 people have been saved just the fact that I assumed because it a refurb all his equipment was working I didn't know who I was shocked when we went on the Levin and it was full of smoke because I
01:14:42 Levin and it was full of smoke because I assumed that the smoke loss would have gone off so I don't understand how no one has been held accountable for that and how if I'm looking at the fire and
01:14:54 and how if I'm looking at the fire and I'm not an experienced fireman and I conceded the speed of the fire why was no one a senior fireman a Muslim and a fireman came to the building could because obviously they did amazing work
01:15:05 because obviously they did amazing work they were trying to save people but why was no one downstair saying this fire is not behaving like a normal fire less evacuate as many people as possible I don't understand why that's the case
01:15:17 thank you very much again well mr. Fletcher I'd once thank you very much for coming to give your evidence it a little bit easy to read relive a night like that if I may say so you showed a
01:15:29 like that if I may say so you showed a great coolness of judgment to get you and your family out of your building and I'm very glad you did escape and thank you very much for coming to tell us all about it thank you guys you like to get with the
01:15:42 thank you guys you like to get with the Usher she'll look after you thank you very much
01:15:49 [Music]
01:15:55 mr. Gela tonight just to use some of the remaining time just to put two statements into the record if I may yes
01:16:06 the reason for doing so is that the authors of these statements are closely linked to the two witnesses that we've heard from today and their experiences therefore add important context of
01:16:18 therefore add important context of today's oral evidence I want to read sections from these statements and but as we've already made clear the whole of each statement stands in for as evidence
01:16:29 each statement stands in for as evidence to the inquiry yes thank you the first statement mr. chairman is that of David Lewis yes it is at iws five
01:16:44 of David Lewis yes it is at iws five zeroes two nine seven yes there's a six page statement and if we go to page five
01:16:57 there is a statement of truth there it's signed and dated on the 18th of May 2018 and there is one exhibit with it which
01:17:09 and there is one exhibit with it which is a plan and the reference for that is iaws five zeroes three zero three to put the before I start reading some extracts
01:17:21 the before I start reading some extracts from the statement is to give it some context
01:17:26 context miss Lewis is the former partner of Mariko toyoshima Lewis who we heard from this morning as mr. Shima Lewis explains she'd lived with the couple's three children in flat
01:17:38 with the couple's three children in flat nine of Grenville tower since summer 2016
01:17:42 2016 mr. Lewis was a regular visitor to the flat throughout the year and he was present in the flat on the ninth the 13th of June and in fact he was awake as mistura's toyoshima Lewis told us
01:17:55 mistura's toyoshima Lewis told us keeping an eye on one of their children who was unwell if I pick it up then from paragraph 8 which is on page 2 so I WS
01:18:10 paragraph 8 which is on page 2 so I WS five zeros to 972 please thank you and the heading above that paragraph is experience of the fire in Grenville tower and the statement continues at
01:18:21 tower and the statement continues at some point I started to see orange sparks out of the window immediately to my left the sparks were just floating in the air and moving very slowly downward there were only a few sparks at this
01:18:33 there were only a few sparks at this point I just thought it was someone outside of the building messing around with fireworks I noticed these sparks at around a few minutes prior to 1 a.m. a few minutes later in that same period of
01:18:45 few minutes later in that same period of first looking out of the window I started to see larger items on fire falling down I did not know what this was at the time but I now understand that this was the cladding the pieces
01:18:57 that this was the cladding the pieces falling down were large around 6 foot across the way they were falling gave the impression of being light I woke up Mariko and then she took control telling
01:19:08 Mariko and then she took control telling me get
01:19:09 me get the kids clothes ready and calling 999 my memory then becomes hazy in terms of what happened and the exact timings I can remember some detail which I will
01:19:21 can remember some detail which I will describe here how are there some details which I cannot remember in general while in the flat I did not see any evidence of firefighting taking place outside and I did not hear any fire alarms at any
01:19:33 I did not hear any fire alarms at any time children and I moved into the living room at about 1:20 a.m. we went into the corner of the room marked s on the plan X on the plan exhibited to this
01:19:45 the plan X on the plan exhibited to this statement Exhibit D l1 because based on our view of the fire from the bedroom window this corner seemed to be the furthest from the fire the 999 operator
01:19:56 furthest from the fire the 999 operator advised us to go to the coolest place in the flat I know that Marika has said that she could feel the heat of the fire but I didn't find it hot and at no time throughout the evening did I see any
01:20:07 throughout the evening did I see any smoke coming into the flat I stayed in the corner with the children they were using the iPad and I was just trying to keep them occupied I was quite impressed because his name has been redacted knew
01:20:21 because his name has been redacted knew about keeping low to the ground to remain in clean air I'm not sure where he learned that we could see fire officers and police out of the window in the living room mariko tried to shout to
01:20:33 the living room mariko tried to shout to get their assistance but I don't think they could hear her at one point I'm not sure if I was in the living or or elsewhere in the flat I heard noises outside of the flat but inside of the
01:20:44 outside of the flat but inside of the building my either opened the front door or look through the spy hole I'm not sure which and I saw fire hoses in the landing and running towards the stairwell door I cannot remember
01:20:56 stairwell door I cannot remember anything clear about where exactly the fire hoses were in the landing but I have drawn their general location on the plan exhibitors of this statement Exhibit D l1 I did not see any firemen when I looked out the fire officers came
01:21:10 when I looked out the fire officers came to the flat at one point and banged on the door I don't remember exactly how the door worked but I remember us looking for the key and trying to unlock it so they would not have to knock it down
01:21:20 down I do not remember us finding the key but we managed to get the door unlocked and the firefighters came into the flat there was a quick discussion between Mariko and the firefighters and Mariko
01:21:31 Mariko and the firefighters and Mariko was saying get the kids out the firefighters has told us to go so I took the kids and we headed straight down the stairs no firefighters or other escort came with us I did not see any signs of
01:21:43 came with us I did not see any signs of smoke anywhere everywhere smelt the same as it always did before the fire when we got down to the first floor of the tower there are about six firefighters all just standing around they just told us
01:21:55 just standing around they just told us to get out we walk down to the ground floor atrium I think in this place but I also call the atrium I could hear a faint alarm when we got there was deserted and there was no guidance about
01:22:07 deserted and there was no guidance about where to go but it was still relatively early in the fire so I can understand why this was the case we exited out of the main entrance and that's mr. chairman where I proposed to stop
01:22:18 chairman where I proposed to stop reading thank you the second statement that I'd like to put into the record at this point is the statement of Jaime hymanot cushaw who's the wife of Richard
01:22:29 hymanot cushaw who's the wife of Richard pleasure from whom we've just heard she lived in flat 131 with her husband and their daughter the statement reference is at I WS 5 zeroes 9 9 0 it's a 15 page
01:22:45 is at I WS 5 zeroes 9 9 0 it's a 15 page statement and if we go to page 15 there is a statement of truth it's and it's signed and dated 20th of May 2018 and
01:23:01 signed and dated 20th of May 2018 and mrs. Kershaw has explained at home she's known as Jaime hymanot Kershaw also known as hymanot Kershaw and I just proposed again to read some paragraphs
01:23:14 proposed again to read some paragraphs from this statement
01:23:19 and again just to give it context as we heard mr. Fletcher was awake watching television whilst mrs. Kershaw and their daughter were asleep and around 1:00 a.m. mr. Fletcher woke mrs. Kershaw up
01:23:32 a.m. mr. Fletcher woke mrs. Kershaw up and under the heading on paragraph 414 on I WS nine nine zero three
01:23:48 under the heading my experience of the fire
01:23:52 fire mrs. Kershaw says having looked out the window and seeing the fire I went to our front door and opened it as I did smoke came pouring in through the open door
01:24:03 came pouring in through the open door from the communal outside landing smoke outside the door was black and thick and even in the brief time the door was open smoke poured into our flat I slammed the
01:24:15 smoke poured into our flat I slammed the door shut and said to Richard that we can't take and there's an reference to their daughter's name which has been redacted out in that or words that effect he replied that we had to get out
01:24:28 effect he replied that we had to get out and point it to the living room window where we could see the fire outside I could hear the flames and something possibly the cladding popping and it felt like the flames were going to burst in from outside and engulf us my first
01:24:41 in from outside and engulf us my first thought was that there had been a terrorist attack I went back into our bedroom and picked up the name of the couple's daughter has been redacted there and Richard picked up some bits we
01:24:54 there and Richard picked up some bits we had no shoes on we then opened the door and carefully stepped out onto the landing the smoke was black and you couldn't see anything though no flames just the thick black smoke I was just
01:25:06 just the thick black smoke I was just expecting the flames to suddenly appear and engulf us there was thick smoke outside of our flat on the landing you couldn't see anything we saw the man opposite from flat 133 and I think
01:25:19 opposite from flat 133 and I think Richard shouted to him that there was a fire but he went back into his flat I now know that he was subsequently rescued by the firefighters we had decided the best plan was to try and go down towards the front exit of the tower
01:25:31 down towards the front exit of the tower using the stairs we knew not to use the lift as a matter of common sense and I'm a fire marshal at work I had never been told by anyone I'll be cacey to not to use the lifts in the event of
01:25:45 to not to use the lifts in the event of a fire there were no signs stating this the only sign by the lift was a stay put sign ie if there was a fire you should remain in your flat Richard took name of
01:25:56 remain in your flat Richard took name of daughters and redacted off me and she's quite heavy and we went down the stairs with Richard carrying daughter I'm not sure which of us was in front we went slowly down the
01:26:07 us was in front we went slowly down the stairs to make sure we did not fall however once we're on the emergency stairwell and heading down the stairs the smoke much lighter and no longer thick the smoke was much thicker outside
01:26:18 thick the smoke was much thicker outside of our flat than it was on the stairs on the stairs the smoke was coming down from above it seemed to be coming through the fire doors above leading onto the stairwell as people were opening the emergency doors to escape
01:26:29 opening the emergency doors to escape via the stairwell we only passed a couple of people one of these with mr. Shah who was walking down the stairs with a pair of trousers in his hand he was crying my house my house I also
01:26:42 was crying my house my house I also remember two little girls and a woman and I think that they were heading down stairs I do not remember which floor this was it was possibly a low floor we overtook them as they appeared relatively relaxed and maybe did not
01:26:54 relatively relaxed and maybe did not realize the extent of the fire it is hard to remember such details due to not being able to see much because of the smoke on our level it cleared as we made our way downwards as well as the fact
01:27:05 our way downwards as well as the fact that we were in a terrifying situation the smoke was clearer on the stairs and it was on the landing outside of our flat however there was some smoke on the stairs which was coming down from the
01:27:17 stairs which was coming down from the higher level through the fire doors as people above us opened them we kept going down until we reached the floor level with a glass Lobby staging floor possibly the second floor and this was
01:27:29 possibly the second floor and this was where we saw the fire fighters when we saw the firefighters and knowing that this floor level of towers at the bottom we then realized that we were going to make it as stated above we encountered
01:27:41 make it as stated above we encountered the firefighters at about the first or second floor on the glass staging level this was the first time we saw fire fighters the firefighters didn't say anything to us they didn't even
01:27:52 anything to us they didn't even acknowledge us but clearly they were focused on going into the fire mr. chairman that's as much as I could play story in your nation to that and I think for the benefit of mr. Shah and
01:28:03 for the benefit of mr. Shah and everybody else we should just confirm that no statement will go in the inquiry record and will form part of the evidence which will be considered in due course and but both individuals
01:28:15 due course and but both individuals who've made the statements have the thanks of the inquiry for doing so good thank you very much mr. Chen can I raise one final matter yes and that is in relation to the program for Monday yes
01:28:27 relation to the program for Monday yes we were due to here on Monday morning from Nicholas Burton for personal reasons mr. Burton can't attend on Monday but we still have one witness
01:28:38 Monday but we still have one witness listed for the afternoon we're making inquiries as to whether she will be able to come in the morning but she will be heard either in the morning or the afternoon either way there will be work
01:28:49 afternoon either way there will be work for us to do that will take up hearing time yes well thank you for clarifying that position we'll see when the witness on Monday is able to be here but in any
01:29:01 on Monday is able to be here but in any event we will sit at 10 o'clock and do whatever work there is then to be done thank you thank you all very much we'll break now and resume at 10 o'clock on Monday please