Evidence from BSRs (3 October 2018 Pt 2 of 2)

Full transcript

00:00:02 yes mr. millet Thank You mr. chairman our next witness is mrs. Maria de fátima Alves mrs. Alves can I please call mrs. Albers

00:00:36 yes I swear by Almighty God I swear by Almighty God that the evidence I shall give that the evidence I shall give shall be the truth shall be the truth

00:00:47 shall be the truth shall be the truth the whole truth the whole truth and nothing but the truth and nothing but the truth

00:00:52 the truth thank you very much sit down make yourself thank you good afternoon mrs. Albers can I start please by asking you

00:01:05 Albers can I start please by asking you to give the chairman your full name Lady of fátima bleached I've had hours right I wonder if it might be possible for you to pull the microphone just a little bit closer to your to your mouth so that the

00:01:17 closer to your to your mouth so that the transcriber can hear you thank you very much can I begin by thanking you very much for coming here to the inquiry and assisting us with our investigations we really are very grateful to you you're

00:01:28 really are very grateful to you you're welcome

00:01:29 welcome I understand that it might be difficult for you to answer some of my questions and relive the events of the night and so if it's difficult at any time we can take a break all you have to do is just

00:01:41 take a break all you have to do is just signal and we can stop my questions are intended to be short and simple and sometimes they're not and if you want me to repeat a question or a word or explain the question I'm very happy to

00:01:53 explain the question I'm very happy to do that as well thank you it may also be that sometimes when you're answering my my question I'm looking somewhere else I'm looking at the screen or my papers but I am listening very hard to what

00:02:05 but I am listening very hard to what you're saying so don't think that I'm not paying attention thank you now can I start by asking you to look please at your your witness statement that you

00:02:17 your your witness statement that you gave to the inquiry and that is iws four four three page one

00:02:25 now on the screen in front of you and you can look at it in the file if you like I can't see ya it's not a is it not on the screen yeah but I can't see with these glasses

00:02:36 yeah but I can't see with these glasses okay yeah I'll thank you yeah okay well you've got dessert there's a paper there's a paper version of that in the

00:02:47 there's a paper version of that in the file in front of you so we can we can use that if you if you if you prefer thank you and we'll do our best easement now all right okay there's also the screen at the back of the room you know that may be help maybe

00:03:00 the room you know that may be help maybe terror as well no this one is okay no no I have my know about this one is fine now I have my covert thank you it was too small he in right all right thank

00:03:12 too small he in right all right thank you this look thank you very much anyway the first page of your witness statement is this and can I just ask you to look at the last page which is page 13 please

00:03:24 at the last page which is page 13 please well if we could just have that blown up sets a bit bigger yeah we can see that the statement is dated the 18th of May 2018 can you see the signature there yes

00:03:36 2018 can you see the signature there yes can you confirm that that is your signature that it is mine yes have you had an opportunity to read this statement recently yes I did and can you confirm for us that its contents are true yes it's true thank

00:03:47 contents are true yes it's true thank you now I also want to read into the record so formally the exhibits to the statement and those are MDF a1 and MDF a2 and the references are iws 4 4 1 1 &

00:04:00 a2 and the references are iws 4 4 1 1 & 4 4 1 2 respectively and they're both maps aerial maps of the tower and the surrounding area which you've marked can I didn't start and having done that with

00:04:11 I didn't start and having done that with some general background is it right that in in June 2017 your family home was flat 105 on the 13th floor of Greenville tower yes it's true and you I think

00:04:24 tower yes it's true and you I think started living there as a tenant but then you bought the property together with your husband right that was in when was that you read a thousand may 2001 yeah

00:04:35 yeah and I think after that you made it into three bedrooms yes we did so you'd been living there 18 years before the fire yes

00:04:46 before the fire yes besides your husband and you who else was living in the flat as at June 2017 only our only four of us the four of you he said that's Tiago your son

00:04:57 your son yaagh my son my daughter e-news my husband Miguel and myself and how old was was Tiago at the time see I was 20 in is she was 16 and my husband your

00:05:09 in is she was 16 and my husband your husband can I ask you about your front door do you remember whether at the time of the fire before just before the fire it had a self closing mechanism no it

00:05:21 it had a self closing mechanism no it wasn't no no does that mean that the door if it was open wouldn't shut itself you know was it always like that yes did the TMO ever come to you and tell you to

00:05:33 the TMO ever come to you and tell you to put a self closing mechanism on it no when they changed for the new doors our door was not changed because we were you know the flood was ours so they

00:05:46 you know the flood was ours so they didn't change our doors and on the night of the fire itself we can turn to that if we can if you go to your statement

00:05:57 if we can if you go to your statement and look at paragraph five first of all page two you explained in paragraphs five six and seven what you did in

00:06:10 five six and seven what you did in detail that evening and just to summarize it I think you went out for dinner

00:06:14 dinner yes we've coped with cousins or relatives yes my cousin and you went to a Portuguese restaurant yes nearby called the village yes village fair yes and after dinner

00:06:26 village fair yes and after dinner everyone went back to flat your flat yes but Tiago I think went yeah my husband dropped Tiago to meet his girlfriend but a nanny came

00:06:37 girlfriend but a nanny came didn't take too long with her notes so he came afterwards of fuel and I think you go on to say that at about 12:20 a.m. you and big well your husband left

00:06:49 a.m. you and big well your husband left the flat to drive your relatives back to their hotel yes and that was I think I think you said in Sussex Gardens yes you tomorrow Sussex and then you came back to back to home yes and then you came

00:07:06 to back to home yes and then you came back home park the car and then walked to the front entrance of the tower is that right yes all right I just want to show you a CCTV still which is inq three

00:07:19 show you a CCTV still which is inq three nine three please

00:07:31 and if we could just have that enlarged a little bit

00:07:43 the so that you know that the adjusted time for this is zero zero hours 56 minutes and 12 seconds so just shortly before 1:00 a.m. yeah can you just tell

00:07:55 before 1:00 a.m. yeah can you just tell us what their shows here in the picture it's me and my husband enter the building and so does that is does that accord with your recollection yes okay

00:08:09 accord with your recollection yes okay when you were walking up to the tower at that time do you remember whether you saw any signs of smoke or fire no it's this moment no nothing everything was normal when he went into the lobby just

00:08:24 normal when he went into the lobby just after this photograph was taken do you remember what the temperature in the lobby was like it was warm because it was warm outside but nothing nothing any

00:08:35 was warm outside but nothing nothing any there was no suspection of a fire at that point right which was the temperature warmer than usual yeah the usual yes it was normal yeah could you

00:08:47 usual yes it was normal yeah could you hear any sounds when you went into the lobby on

00:08:57 and you then say that you got into the lift to go to the 13th floor which is where your flat is and two other men got into the lift and press the button for

00:09:08 into the lift and press the button for that floor can I ask you to go to paragraph 10 of your statement please

00:09:20 well just read it together we say as the lift door opened at the fourth floor the two men walked out and turned left out of the lift they could have been walking to flat 14 15 or 16 and not sure which

00:09:32 to flat 14 15 or 16 and not sure which one we watched them as they walked out and in the same direction there was smoke across the ceiling it was hardly noticeable and was a white light gray color in the hallway I couldn't see

00:09:44 color in the hallway I couldn't see where the smoke was coming from big well suddenly said there's smoke there's a fire my police statement says that I could smell smoke but I do not recall being asked this and I have no recollection of smelling anything at

00:09:55 recollection of smelling anything at this stage now can I just first of all ask you having shown you that to look at

00:10:06 ask you having shown you that to look at a floor plan of the fourth floor and it's M et triples triple zero one two five nine three at page 12 that's triple

00:10:20 five nine three at page 12 that's triple zero one two five nine three page 12

00:10:29 so mrs. Alves we have a floor plan of the 4th floor of the tower and we can see the lifts in the section just to the left of the main core yes

00:10:41 left of the main core yes towards the west side do you remember which direction the the men came out of the lift and went in I'm not sure if

00:10:52 the lift and went in I'm not sure if they went to flood 16 or flat 15 I know they when they exit they turn left yes but I'm not I can't say I can't

00:11:03 yes but I'm not I can't say I can't remember I know them just going onto the left direction but I didn't see which flood they got in right and or could be the flood for four flat four as well

00:11:16 the flood for four flat four as well either flat sorry flat five yes either flat four five or six

00:11:23 six now when the dead lift doors opened as you described in your statement could you see the lobby area of floor fall clearly yes were the lights working well

00:11:36 clearly yes were the lights working well yes I'm clearly right and you described smoke across the ceiling was this the ceiling of the lobby area yes and how thick in the ceiling it was not a peak was just very light smoke white Mike

00:11:49 was just very light smoke white Mike white smoke okay and they smoke at any other level no did you hear anything but you know now the

00:12:02 you hear anything but you know now the lift you were in had a camera and then if you know that Butler yes yes and it's C 18 and I want just to show you two CCTV stills taken from that camera the

00:12:13 CCTV stills taken from that camera the first one is inq three nine four if we could just have that up

00:12:28 now this is timed at an adjusted time mark of zero hours 56 minutes and 38 seconds and can you describe what you

00:12:44 seconds and can you describe what you see there what do you think you see that yeah it's me and my husband Miguel got into the end of the left on the basement and the entrance the entrance the ground floor yes run fluorophore basement sorry okay now we've got a second photograph

00:12:56 okay now we've got a second photograph it's inq three nine five please and this is taken with an adjusted time of zero

00:13:09 is taken with an adjusted time of zero hours 57 minutes and 24 seconds so it's six seconds later can you describe for us what we see there

00:13:20 us what we see there yeah when those two men's exit this is on the fourth floor when those two men's exit from the building we notice was smoke after I've

00:13:34 building we notice was smoke after I've seen this footage I see there's a lot of smoke but at the moment was you know we didn't realize was so much smoke and here we can see because the camera was higher and then ours

00:13:47 higher and then ours yeah and then we we immediately left the lift

00:13:51 lift yes I see thank you yes and this does this photograph accord with your recollection of how much smoke there was at the ceiling level who was not much it

00:14:02 at the ceiling level who was not much it was not much system on the ceiling but it was not a big smoke

00:14:13 do you have a recollection of the smoke coming into the lift as long as the doors open no no I just remembered as I said to see the the smoke in the ceiling

00:14:26 said to see the the smoke in the ceiling but here it shows more than then on the night of the fire when the doors open mm-hmm do you remember whether the smoke had any effect on you nothing now in

00:14:41 had any effect on you nothing now in your statement we can look to look at paragraph in left on the next one you you say that Miguel told me to get out of the lift and to take the stairs up to

00:14:52 of the lift and to take the stairs up to our flat

00:14:53 our flat I couldn't hear any fire alarms as we were about to go up the stairs Miguel realized that he'd left his phone in the car he turned and said to me I'll go and get the kids you go down and get my phone from the car he told me not to

00:15:05 my phone from the car he told me not to take the lift down but to walk down the stairs and then he's saying the next paragraph I agreed and opened the door to take the stairs and at that stage did you see anybody else in the communal

00:15:18 you see anybody else in the communal area yeah I saw a lady she was carrying but I think it was after the door cause there was the whole the whole way where

00:15:31 there was the whole the whole way where the lifts are and then doesn't there was another door and then there was the staircase yes and I saw a lady with a suitcase with some clothes on her arm and I helped her and bringing the

00:15:45 and I helped her and bringing the suitcase down ok well we'll come we come to to look at that in a moment before we do I'm talking about the lobby as soon as you come out of the lift into the lobby area

00:15:56 come out of the lift into the lobby area no there was no there was no ok did you hear any smoke alarms no did you hear any voices no did you and it's maybe

00:16:08 any voices no did you and it's maybe difficult did you hear any vents operating or air extraction system no things like no did you notice any movement of air no they wind blowing I

00:16:19 movement of air no they wind blowing I don't remember no but I don't because sometimes there was the ventilation and we we hear that not much but at this point I don't remember to hear anything because I

00:16:31 remember to hear anything because I never thought was a you know in the beginning when I saw the smoke I thought maybe was you know something burning but not a fire so you didn't does that mean you didn't

00:16:42 so you didn't does that mean you didn't notice no when I saw the smoke was smoke but I never thought I thought maybe was something burning on the on the hob or I never thought it was a you know a major

00:16:53 never thought it was a you know a major fire could be a major fire just to just to go back to my question again do you remember

00:17:00 remember do you ever hearing or noticing any any smoke ventilation system working or no I don't remember to hear anything like that no movement of air no okay now when

00:17:13 that no movement of air no okay now when you came out of the lift I think the stairwell will be on your on your right yes was it you or was it made well do you remember who opened the door to the stairwell

00:17:24 to the stairwell it was Miguel as Miguel and you remember the weather the door was closed or whether it was open it was closed is closed

00:17:34 so was Miguel a head of you then when he went into the stairs yeah yeah through first no no no he opened the door and then he got out of the

00:17:46 then he got out of the the wrong way and then he said to me to go down because he left his phone in the car in the garage and he was going up to bring the children down yeah did he get first into the stairwell or did you go

00:17:58 first into the stairwell or did you go first into the stairwell no you went up and I went down sorry baby I don't know did he go through the door first or did you go no no you went through the door first

00:18:07 first yeah and did you notice any problems with the door no like no opening or not

00:18:19 with the door no like no opening or not shutting properly no okay when when you went through it both of you went through it did it close behind you I think so because the door closed I believe some and when he went into the

00:18:33 believe some and when he went into the stairwell do you remember whether there was any smoke in the stairs I don't remember but I don't think at this point was any smoke unless when you know when we opened the door the smoke came out

00:18:46 we opened the door the smoke came out through the door but at at this point if there was any smoke was very very small okay do you remember whether you felt when you got into the stairwell whether

00:18:57 when you got into the stairwell whether there was any movement of air or any sound of a fan or vent going I don't remember but I don't think it was any

00:19:08 remember but I don't think it was any any ventilation but I can't say you know he was or wasn't because I don't remember

00:19:16 remember no hey thank you now in the next paragraph you paragraph 12 still on page 3 of your statement you describe the

00:19:29 3 of your statement you describe the encountering a woman on the stairs you say as I approach the landing to descend the stairs I saw a woman I can't quite remember what she looked like and I wouldn't be able to recognize her again but I believe she was in her late 30s

00:19:40 but I believe she was in her late 30s olive-skinned and about my height she had a large wheeled suitcase with her and she was trying to carry it down the stairs and some coats or clothing balance on her other arm and you said I can help

00:19:50 can help you and you helped her um first of all when you say as I approach the landing to descend the stairs could you just describe what you mean by the landing it

00:20:01 describe what you mean by the landing it was halfway the stairs down okay nice then so I'd say down one flight yeah because it was the the stairs and then

00:20:15 because it was the the stairs and then there was a door at the end and then there was the new stairs they built after the refurbishment so I think it was up to there and then the lady stayed there I thought I helped her downstairs

00:20:29 there I thought I helped her downstairs to the the ground floor but after I've seen this the footage I left her there and then someone else helped her to bring the suitcase down okay well we can look at some pictures first of all can

00:20:41 look at some pictures first of all can we look at inq 62

00:21:01 now this is a picture taken from the CCTV outside the boxing club and the adjusted time we have for it is zero

00:21:12 adjusted time we have for it is zero zero hours 59 minutes and 12 seconds so just before 1 a.m. can you identify yourself in that picture yes with them orange loss right

00:21:24 picture yes with them orange loss right now jeans and and the lady with the suitcase can we see her there yes yes he's the one over there do we know she thought that she's on your right is she

00:21:35 thought that she's on your right is she I think that's what you're pointing Parvin it's she's on your right yes that's where she that's where you were pointing yeah ok and can we see the suitcase I think you can is that the

00:21:46 suitcase I think you can is that the silver object yes yes ok we may get a better view of that in the next picture mister documents directors that's inq 63

00:22:00 mister documents directors that's inq 63 which has a time adjusted time mark of three seconds later at 0 0 59 15 that

00:22:12 three seconds later at 0 0 59 15 that may be a better picture is that is that as you recall it the lady with the suitcase yes right

00:22:22 now you then say in your statement that you continue to make your way down the stairs to the ground floor as you do in paragraph 12 and we have a picture of I

00:22:37 paragraph 12 and we have a picture of I think you're doing that it's inq 396

00:22:52 if we can just have that enlarged can you identify yourself in that picture yes that has a as I say a an adjusted time mark of 1 a.m. and 16 seconds sorry

00:23:06 time mark of 1 a.m. and 16 seconds sorry adjusted to 59 40 so that the adjusted time for that is 0 0 hours 59 minutes and 40 seconds so just after you'd encountered the lady with the suitcase

00:23:17 encountered the lady with the suitcase yeah

00:23:19 yeah oh my question is on your way down to the bottom of the stairs did you come across any smoke no no smoke did you come across any other people apart from the lady with the suitcase I don't think

00:23:32 the lady with the suitcase I don't think so I don't remember but I don't think so ok now in your statement if we just go to paragraph 15 we could jump ahead to page 4 you say there's a photo of me

00:23:46 page 4 you say there's a photo of me coming down the stairs which was included in the police statement this photo was taken at 1:00 a.m. and 16 seconds which I think was just after I'd

00:23:57 seconds which I think was just after I'd left the firefighters given given what we've been looking at this afternoon mrs. Alvarez and the photographs would be looking at do you think that's now right it was after the firefighter saw

00:24:09 right it was after the firefighter saw would or did you come down the stairs then before seeing the firefighters I still don't know I think I came down and then when this one this picture was when

00:24:22 then when this one this picture was when I first came down and then I met the firefighters at the entrance and then I went up again with the firefighters I think that pictures is when I first came

00:24:34 think that pictures is when I first came down yes okay I think that's very helpful

00:24:37 helpful but I think with that that might be clearer as we look at some more pictures what you have to do next

00:24:44 so if we can in fact look at inq 3 9 7 I'll just show you this this is another CCTV still and again formal question

00:24:58 CCTV still and again formal question really can you identify yourself in that picture yes and this is this is at an adjusted time now of Oh 59 53 so 13 seconds after we

00:25:10 now of Oh 59 53 so 13 seconds after we saw you coming down the stairs can you describe what you're doing there this I was buzzing up my husband to say but at this point I have spoke already with the

00:25:22 this point I have spoke already with the firefighters well there's another photograph we're gonna look at in a minute which shows you look buzzing because I buzzed my husband after I spoke with the firefighter when he said

00:25:34 spoke with the firefighter when he said to me to you know to tell my family to stay in the flood right so okay well let's see how we go you think that's do you think that's after least I think so

00:25:45 you think that's after least I think so what I'm not sure no but I think it was after I opened the door for the first firefighters okay

00:25:55 consumer what you were doing buzzing yeah yes yeah I was buzzing up yeah for sure

00:26:01 sure this is for sure can I just ask you about this buzzer when you press the button what happens I have to press 1:05 and then the button says cold okay and is what happens when you do that

00:26:13 is what happens when you do that normally the the person answered but at that moment I couldn't hear anyone so I didn't hear my husband answer but and then he said later on that he answered

00:26:24 then he said later on that he answered the phone at home but I didn't reply maybe I didn't wait enough at the you know at the entrance it was a

00:26:36 know at the entrance it was a miscommunication I'm just interested in how this buzzer system worked and when when you press the buzzer 105 call what happens in the flat does the phone yeah the phone rings in the

00:26:47 the phone yeah the phone rings in the flat and then it has to be answered yes doesn't you can't broadcast into the flat no okay so no no so just answer you have to lift the the handles of the

00:26:58 have to lift the the handles of the phone and speak I see yeah thank you um now you then say in paragraph 13 of

00:27:11 um now you then say in paragraph 13 of your statement if we can just go back a page to that yesterday I was just waiting by the main entrance door for MIG well when I saw more than four firefighters arrive I held the door open

00:27:22 firefighters arrive I held the door open for them to let them in they let them get inside the tower one of the firefighters asked if he could use my fob key but I said that I needed them as it had my keys including my keys for my job on it I said I could open the door

00:27:34 job on it I said I could open the door as for them instead and do you think that conversation was before or after the time when you buzzed the intercom it was before you think it was before okay

00:27:49 do you do you remember who made the decision whether you and your family should leave the tower what my husband

00:28:02 should leave the tower what my husband okay now can I just we'll come back to this sequence of movement and the fob key in a minute but I just want to ask you one or two other questions about the building could you please be shown inq

00:28:17 building could you please be shown inq 93

00:28:27 inq number 93

00:28:50 hmm another one seems a certificate on a blank never mind any try something

00:29:03 different can I please ask you to be shown BL a quadruple zero two four one six if this

00:29:19 quadruple zero two four one six if this can be shown the right way round thank you now this is a notice that is entitled fire action Grenfell tower this

00:29:30 entitled fire action Grenfell tower this one I think comes from the lifts at floor three mrs. Alves but do you remember seeing a notice like this anywhere in the building yes you did yes

00:29:41 anywhere in the building yes you did yes what's that one on your floor yes there was did you ever read it I remember read it but I I don't remember what well you know we read but I don't remember what

00:29:54 know we read but I don't remember what it was no written on it but it was something about fire area okay and did you leaving aside the latest what was

00:30:07 you leaving aside the latest what was your understanding on the night of the fire as to what you should do in the event of a fire in the building exit exit yes we're coming in the building that was your understanding was it yes okay did you ever read the limits

00:30:21 it yes okay did you ever read the limits a to you there's a series of red and green blocks in this notice and just above halfway down if we just expand it mister documents director it says if you are safely within your block and there

00:30:33 are safely within your block and there is a fire elsewhere in the block and then we need the we need the green text as well it says you should initially be safe to stay in your flat keeping the

00:30:44 safe to stay in your flat keeping the doors and windows closed on arrival the fire brigade will make an assessment and will assist with evacuation if required if you wish to evacuate leave closing the door behind you and use the

00:30:55 the door behind you and use the staircase to exit the building do you remember knowing that that was the advice that had been given to you in the event of a fire and in Grandville Tara what do you mean to

00:31:06 in Grandville Tara what do you mean to reactor reading that yes yeah as I said I read that when they they first put on next to the lifts but I don't remember what it was written afterwards because I

00:31:18 what it was written afterwards because I I think we never thought that the fire is going to happen yeah yeah but as you said before you you thought yeah exit was your yeah okay and apart from this

00:31:29 was your yeah okay and apart from this notice were you ever aware of any advice being given to you or other residents about what to do in the event of a fire in the block no I remember once the

00:31:40 in the block no I remember once the firefighters came into our flat and they was giving fire smoke smoke alarms but and they fixed one on my corridor but

00:31:51 and they fixed one on my corridor but and then few months later it fell down just fell down from the ceiling good and then I stick it on the wall and it fell down again and then I went to the firefighter to exchange for a new one

00:32:03 firefighter to exchange for a new one and I had it in my floods right but never anyone came and give advice in case of a fire okay and where was it in your flat on the night of the fire I

00:32:15 your flat on the night of the fire I smoke alone it was on the left and I think on the on top of the there was covered between the kitchen and the toilet and it was on top of that door

00:32:28 toilet and it was on top of that door covered Oh

00:32:39 now can I take you to paragraph 13 of your statement which is on page three

00:32:47 you say I was just waiting by the main entrance door for MIG well we've read this before it's about your discussion with the firefighters and you say you couldn't

00:32:59 firefighters and you say you couldn't give them your fob can I show you another picture it's some inq 96

00:33:16 now the adjusted time for this mrs. Albers is 1 a.m. 1 minute and 55 seconds so 1 minute and 55 seconds past 1:00

00:33:30 so 1 minute and 55 seconds past 1:00 a.m. I'm sorry I have given you a long time it's 1:00 a.m. and 50 seconds as an adjusted time say 50 seconds past 1:00 a.m. do you know what you're doing in

00:33:42 a.m. do you know what you're doing in this picture well sorry can you identify yourself yes yeah I was open the door with my fault right and let the firefighters in okay and this is the

00:33:55 firefighters in okay and this is the second door and then after this tour was the lifts right it was a rule okay I could have given this phone but at this point I did when they asked can I have

00:34:07 point I did when they asked can I have your key I thought well I'm not going to give him my key I could but I did at this time I didn't realize you know I could just leave the phone it was silly of me but I didn't realize yes I could

00:34:20 of me but I didn't realize yes I could give my fault no do you remember who asked you for the fob it was one of the firefighters I don't know was he wearing a white helmet right I don't know I have no idea were

00:34:33 right I don't know I have no idea were you surprised to be asked by the fire brigade for your thought to get into the building yeah because I thought you know all the the buildings if an event of a fire I thought the firefighters would

00:34:46 fire I thought the firefighters would have like a master fog to open all the buildings because if someone ring at my Bell at two o'clock in the morning says I'm the firefighter open the door for me

00:34:57 I'm the firefighter open the door for me I don't know if I was going to open cross once I had at 5 o'clock in the morning someone said I didn't the police officer could you open the door for me I said I'm sorry you can't prove you are a

00:35:09 said I'm sorry you can't prove you are a police officer I'm not going to open the door for you and I didn't so I assumed that firefighters had like a master for all the the buildings to get to get into

00:35:21 all the the buildings to get to get into the the

00:35:22 the the they think no in case other fighters is there any way the firefighters could have got through that door without no I thought and once they'd gone through

00:35:37 thought and once they'd gone through that door could they come back through that door without a fob yeah if they come back yes but and then if they want to get in again no yes no we can see that in this picture just above where

00:35:49 that in this picture just above where the firefighters and you are standing there is a gallery met Sedin floor there yes would you need a fob key to get to that yes and could you just point out on this photograph yeah one on top of where

00:36:01 this photograph yeah one on top of where I you know where the firefighters are just on top yes they need a key and and is when I you know I got into the stairs and opened that door for them because

00:36:13 and opened that door for them because otherwise they couldn't go in for the staircase and what about the door on the right of the picture by the green wall that takes you to the foot of the stairs do you need a fob to get through that door as well that one here last door yes

00:36:26 door as well that one here last door yes yes we need a father's will I see so all three doors we can see on this picture need a fob yes and your one fob works for all three doors does it yes did right actually was the first

00:36:38 yes did right actually was the first time I use that glass Thorin on that night really yeah okay now going ahead with CCTV we then have a photo which is

00:36:51 with CCTV we then have a photo which is inq 400

00:36:57 and this shows a timestamp of adjusted of 1 1 a.m. and 1 minute and 55 seconds so that's about a minute and five

00:37:11 so that's about a minute and five seconds after the last picture we've seen where you're helping the fire fighters in through the door with your fob what can you tell us what's happening in this picture I was trying

00:37:22 happening in this picture I was trying to listen to my husband answer the deposit right so we've got two pictures of you by the intercom this one at time

00:37:33 of you by the intercom this one at time dat low 1 a 155 and as an adjusted time and the earlier one we saw oh so there are two different yes because that one

00:37:45 are two different yes because that one the only one we looked at do you remember what it was time in 50 59 minutes and 53 seconds after midnight so there's a good two minutes or so which separates these two pictures working on

00:37:56 separates these two pictures working on the adjusted times we've done on the basis of that two minutes and you can you can also see poses there now in the picture yes so probably after when I came down to open the door the door for

00:38:09 came down to open the door the door for the staircase was probably that when I was my husband right I don't know if it was for the second time I can't remember no okay probably was yeah and looking

00:38:20 no okay probably was yeah and looking back at these pictures now do you remember more clearly whether you had the conversation with the firefighters after the first time you try to speak to make well on the intercom I think when I came down and the first time and I

00:38:33 came down and the first time and I reached the front door I saw the first fire engine arrived and then I thought well I'm going to wait here at the door you know to let them in and then I asked

00:38:46 you know to let them in and then I asked them but I can't remember if it was at that point or after I went to open the doors and then came back to the entrance again I can't remember but I remember to

00:38:58 again I can't remember but I remember to ask one of the firefighters I think was at the second time I think it was at this time because they were just spreading the horses on the and I said is that safe to stay in the

00:39:10 and I said is that safe to stay in the building and he said to me no you stay here but and then I said yeah but my husband and my children are upstairs in the flat and he asked me which floor I

00:39:21 the flat and he asked me which floor I said 13 and he said to me tell them to stay in closed doors and windows and staying and it was probably when I tried to to bus my husband say to you know to

00:39:35 to to bus my husband say to you know to stay inside did you succeed in getting hold of me well no so he came down thank God yeah but he said to me even if I say that to stay inside he would come down

00:39:53 now yeah thank you can I show you another CCTV image and this one is imq 402 4:02 now this one has a time an

00:40:12 402 4:02 now this one has a time an adjusted time mark of oh one Oh 219 so this is about a minute or so after then

00:40:23 this is about a minute or so after then about 25 seconds after the last one we've seen where you were outside using the intercom this is about almost 30 seconds later can you tell us what

00:40:36 seconds later can you tell us what you're doing in that picture I was going with the firefighters I had the four win my right hand the blue thing isn't my fault but that's it is it the blue thing yeah I was going to open the door for them at the top of the stairs

00:40:48 them at the top of the stairs I just don't next to the boxing club pretty low on the left so I CT before this did you put the firefighters through the door into the living yes

00:40:59 through the door into the living yes then were there other firefighters you took through the glass door and then I I think I came again to the the front door and then there was more firefighters and then I opened the door they said they was going through the staircase and then

00:41:12 was going through the staircase and then I opened the glass door at the ground floor and then up the stairs yes I see that's very clear and we can see we can see two firefighters in there with you with it

00:41:23 firefighters in there with you with it were there any any others we can't see do you think I don't remember fair enough so you had to use your fob key more than once to allow firefighters

00:41:35 key more than once to allow firefighters in yes two batches effectively one through the Liz's right doors at least four doors to opened it was the front door the main building door and then the the door who leads into the lifts and

00:41:47 the door who leads into the lifts and then there's the right last door on my last door on my right and then up the stairs the top one to lead them into the staircase yes I see after that did you

00:42:03 staircase yes I see after that did you need to use your fob to let any more firefighters in no because when I came down I went to the it was coupled with the tool it was two girls and then they

00:42:16 the tool it was two girls and then they were sitting and the girls were shivering and and then I went to the garage to bring some clothes for them and you know and then they left the

00:42:27 and you know and then they left the doors open I assumed and then they didn't let us go in so they said just them and then I stayed outside that's it let's go outside then if we can you I

00:42:40 let's go outside then if we can you I think leave the tower and MiG well and the children come down how long after do you think after you had let the

00:42:52 you think after you had let the firefighters in for the second time the second batch of firefighter did me well and Thiago in has come down I don't remember I don't think it was too long I

00:43:04 remember I don't think it was too long I don't know maybe no more than five minutes I have no idea but I don't think it was more than I don't know between five and ten I have

00:43:15 now you in your statement you you say on page five like to show you paragraph 21

00:43:28 page five like to show you paragraph 21 you described their in some detail about your concerns about a neighbor joy usual

00:43:41 your concerns about a neighbor joy usual sure yeah yeah at least have got that right sure and he's a neighbor in flat 104 yes and you haven't seen him come

00:43:54 104 yes and you haven't seen him come out of the tower so you were concerned about him yeah because when my husband came down he said they woke up all the neighbors and I was trying to see if I if I knew all the neighbors from our

00:44:06 if I knew all the neighbors from our floor to coming out of the building and I remember to see the Spanish family Dorinda and her husband and I remember

00:44:18 Dorinda and her husband and I remember to see Adriana and husband and the two children and then I said to Miguel but you know the the neighbor who lives on 101 is not I didn't see him and then my

00:44:32 101 is not I didn't see him and then my husband said he's on holiday and then I said well I didn't see the family from 102 which is the Eritrean family and my husband said you know they left I saw

00:44:43 husband said you know they left I saw them out so and then I was thinking well so is everybody out so he's wrong he's not here and Miguel said I knock on the door and then I opened the door and I shout for him and he said the bicycle

00:44:57 shout for him and he said the bicycle from Francisca was not that cross francis was working in a hotel and and then I asked my husband for his phone and I tried to ring him and he didn't answer and I was you know ringing

00:45:09 answer and I was you know ringing ringing ringing and then he picked up the phone and I said where are you he said I'm in bed because sometimes he was not staying in the flat he was staying with other friends and then I said well

00:45:20 with other friends and then I said well there's a fire in the building get out secur yeah this was wrong yeah so you said to him get out yeah and then he was panicking I said you don't need to panic he said don't leave the phone continue

00:45:31 he said don't leave the phone continue talking to me because I'm I said don't panic okay now can I ask you to look at

00:45:43 panic okay now can I ask you to look at paragraph 22 you say and I'll read it all to you I looked up at the side of the tower the inside of flat 16 was dark but I could see smoke

00:45:54 but I could see smoke I saw more firefighters arrived and spread their hoses on the floor they tested them briefly then the family who I gave the jumpers to the children approached them they were talking to them at the time the window fell from

00:46:05 them at the time the window fell from flat 16 there was a sudden flash like lightning I saw the window explode and the glass shatter I saw flames shoot out of the window it was coming out and burning on to the outside cladding about

00:46:17 burning on to the outside cladding about three feet high this must have been around 1:15 a.m. now you I think of marked on your map where you were at this time can we just have a look at

00:46:29 this time can we just have a look at that it's an I WS four four four one page one and if we could just swivel

00:46:40 page one and if we could just swivel that round so if we can enlarge it can you just describe for us in a bit more detail mr. self as where you were standing when you saw the window explode

00:46:55 so grenfell I was yeah where the the cross yes

00:47:07 cross yes so you were to the east of the door southeast of the tower I did you have a good my question is did you have a good view of the of the window yeah yeah yeah what just outside them right facing the

00:47:20 what just outside them right facing the laser center right were you standing on the grass yes you were on the ground okay not on the grass at that moment I wasn't on the grass I was on the pavement right there was two like concrete stools yes

00:47:33 was two like concrete stools yes the this couple were there with it with the girls and I was next to them okay okay now you described smoke here in the

00:47:44 okay now you described smoke here in the in the inside of flat 16 could you could you see where that smoke was inside the flat I don't know I saw through the window but I can't I remember seeing inside the window at

00:47:58 I remember seeing inside the window at that moment when you looked up and saw smoke

00:48:00 smoke did you see the exterior on fire no no no fire ax dude did you see anything happened to the window frame before the window fell I don't think so okay then

00:48:15 window fell I don't think so okay then you go on to say there was a sudden flash like lightning yes could you what was the color of the flesh orange yellow I believe it was a dollar yeah and you

00:48:28 I believe it was a dollar yeah and you say you saw the window explode and the glass shatter when you say it exploded could you just describe the explosion for us yeah I heard the crack you know and then the window you know glass fell

00:48:41 and then the window you know glass fell on the floor and I used to know was the window the glass on the hole in a frame of the window but it was the no we know okay and then you say I saw flames shoot

00:48:53 okay and then you say I saw flames shoot out of the window do they come out of the window space where the glass had been yes it was you know was the the window and then the flame she was just

00:49:04 window and then the flame she was just coming upwards right okay on top of the window on top of the window yes did you see fire coming out from

00:49:17 did you see fire coming out from anywhere else around the window fires fires flames did you see flames no nowhere else not the Monday you didn't and when he said when you say there were she the the

00:49:29 when you say there were she the the flames were shooting out of the window how far out of the window did the flames come how far yeah sorry what do you mean how far what distance if you've got the window here

00:49:41 distance if you've got the window here and the flames came out of the window oh no he was not coming this way what's coming up puts up yeah half hour upwards from the window did he do you think the flames went well no because we at this

00:49:53 flames went well no because we at this point I think we couldn't see too much flames outside it was you know I saw flames how can I explain yeah it was the

00:50:09 flames how can I explain yeah it was the flames from the fire inside the window and then I was reaching up and then I was waiting and and see where is the you know the firefighters to to tackle on

00:50:20 know the firefighters to to tackle on the fire and yeah but it was quite high I don't know maybe I'm a meter high or less the flames you know did you see but ask you this after you

00:50:36 did you see but ask you this after you saw the flames first coming out of the window what happened what was the next thing that happened with the flames I remember seeing crackling and I

00:50:49 I remember seeing crackling and I remember seeing like droppings of melting plastic dropping on the floor and I remember seeing a yellow bin the

00:51:01 and I remember seeing a yellow bin the big yellow bin and the this like melting plastic was falling on top of that pin and I I said to Miguel if they don't

00:51:12 and I I said to Miguel if they don't remove this bin soon they're going to catch fire from the the ground up as well

00:51:18 you know so it was like you know crackling and droppings of melting plastic on flames really yeah

00:51:30 plastic on flames really yeah did you when he looked up could you see the fire starting to burn the exterior the cladding on the exterior of the building I think so I assume so because it was a lot of flames I and I remember

00:51:44 it was a lot of flames I and I remember to sing like was piece of papers falling down like that these I didn't know and then I realized was the cladding from outside but he was just flying like that

00:51:56 outside but he was just flying like that like a piece of paper on fire yes on the floor then what noise did it make you remember no I remember the crackling and the you know the noise of the fire yes

00:52:21 yes no mrs. Alvarez I've come to the end of the questions I wanted to ask you but there may be a few more which have you looked at my notes again I may want to

00:52:32 looked at my notes again I may want to ask you so I'm going to ask the Chairman to take a short break if I can mr. chairman is that convenient yes sure how long do you like ten minute ten minutes yes yes welcome as Elvis it does happen from time to time the

00:52:43 does happen from time to time the council finds there are more questions you should have asked you so we'll have a break nerve okay anyway we've been running for an hour so you probably welcome a break anyway and when you come

00:52:54 welcome a break anyway and when you come back then we'll see if they they really are any more question say we all rise now and return at five past three okay and I have to ask you

00:53:05 past three okay and I have to ask you not to talk to anyone about your evidence right yeah so if you like give the access you look after you thank you thank you

00:53:30 like right five four three please thank you

01:05:04 well yes mr. millet I have no further questions no further lessons right well I think we better invite mrs. Arthur's back here just to thank her and tell her

01:05:15 back here just to thank her and tell her they want any more questions yes

01:05:25 just take a seat

01:05:32 all right thank you yes mr. millet mrs. Albers thank you for coming back to us you'll be glad to know I don't have any further questions for you and therefore it remains for me to thank you very much for your assistance to the inquiry today

01:05:44 for your assistance to the inquiry today it's very it's very important that we get your evidence and you've given us a lot of useful and interesting further evidence on top of your statement before we let you go I would like you if you want to to tell the Chairman whether

01:05:55 want to to tell the Chairman whether there's anything else about the night and the events of that night which you can remember in addition to your statement and what you told us today that you think it was in it would be

01:06:06 that you think it was in it would be important for the Chairman to know that people's lives would be safe like if

01:06:18 people's lives would be safe like if they were evacuated

01:06:24 well mrs. Albers we're all very grateful to you for coming along to tell us about your experience it's only big from people like you who were present at the

01:06:35 people like you who were present at the time that we can really find out what the conditions were like inside the building so as I say it's very valuable evidence and we're very grateful to you for coming along

01:06:47 thank you thank you very much indeed now you can you're free to go so if you'd like to give the usher show the contents

01:07:10 yes let's do it mr. chairman there are now some statements I need to read into the record yes I would follow on from the witnesses we've heard today already

01:07:21 the witnesses we've heard today already this won't take too long but it isn't an instantaneous exercise it isn't material so what I'm going to rush it no I'm grateful what I need to do is to

01:07:33 no I'm grateful what I need to do is to read the statement into the record with a brief background summary and then give some context to what those witnesses tell us in writing yes and in a and also add to that by reading out parts of the

01:07:46 add to that by reading out parts of the statement whether particularly relevant or particularly illuminating and I start with Jamie Murray and that is inquiry statement reference iws one double zero

01:07:59 statement reference iws one double zero eight with two exhibits jm1 iws 1 0 1 2 which is a fire and smoke description and jn2 which is iws 1 0 1 4 which is a

01:08:11 and jn2 which is iws 1 0 1 4 which is a plan of the area around Grenfell tower yes she lived in flat 15 on floor 4 with her husband Mahad Eagle was also given a

01:08:23 her husband Mahad Eagle was also given a statement and her two or their two young children Vega lily and Zakaria to give some context to that I'm going to read some parts of the statement they were

01:08:34 some parts of the statement they were all of home in their flat on the night of the fire the children were asleep in bed and mrs. Murray had just finished her dinner with her husband when they heard a banging on the door mr. Eagle

01:08:45 heard a banging on the door mr. Eagle answered the door and then told her that there was a fire and he gave her a wet towel and they went to pick up their children as they did and they carried them out to safety

01:08:56 them out to safety can I read from paragraph 19 of Jamie Murray's statement I'll read paragraph 19 and 28 apart of 21 and 26 19 says when we stepped into

01:09:12 21 and 26 19 says when we stepped into the fourth floor hallway I could see smoke I remember that the lights were on and I could see okay but there was a light gray smoke hazing throughout the corridor there was a strong smell of

01:09:23 corridor there was a strong smell of smoke

01:09:23 smoke but I didn't have any difficulty breathing that I was taking fast panicked breaths I've been shown a smoke and fire descriptor chart by my solicitor which I exhibit as jm1 and the state of the

01:09:34 exhibit as jm1 and the state of the smoke was somewhere between pictures B and C I remember looking to my right towards flat 14 and seeing that the door was shut and Abdul was standing outside he was looking panicked but I can't

01:09:47 he was looking panicked but I can't remember him saying anything when I looked the other way I could see that the door to flat 16 was open and smoke was coming out all you could see in the doorway of flat 16 was like gray smoke

01:09:58 doorway of flat 16 was like gray smoke billowing out and moving quickly as though there was a draught from the moment I turned away from flat 16 I remember just focusing on mahad's back and I didn't see anyone else as we left

01:10:10 and I didn't see anyone else as we left the fourth floor hallway and went out into the stairwell that was much less smoke but I remember the smoke coming out behind us in drafts every time that we opened a door who went into a new area we went down the stairs and I

01:10:22 area we went down the stairs and I remember it felt drafty and light smoke was blowing behind us it had always been drafting on the stairwell and when it was windy outside you could hear the wind howling on the stairwell and then

01:10:34 wind howling on the stairwell and then at paragraph 26 she says when we got to the lobby part I could see firefighters were entering the main door I can't recall how many I just felt relieved because they were there we went past

01:10:45 because they were there we went past them and as we were leaving one of the firefighters requested a key fob Mahad gave then his fob I remember Mahad saying to the firefighter remember me I'm the young man those are my keys and

01:10:57 I'm the young man those are my keys and there's a word redacted between young and man as we can see and her statement is dated the 10th of August 2018 and is

01:11:08 is dated the 10th of August 2018 and is as always provided under a statement of truth the and in common with other statements it will form the hose yes mr.

01:11:21 statements it will form the hose yes mr. chairman absolutely and I should just finish by saying that she is seen on the CCTV to have exited the tower at zero hours 59 minutes

01:11:32 hours 59 minutes forty-eight seconds has adjusted the next statement I would wish to read into the into the record is that of her husband Mahad Eagle and he liked her was

01:11:45 husband Mahad Eagle and he liked her was a resident of lap 15 on the fourth floor at the time of the fire his statement is iws one zero one zero and he has provided three exhibits me1 which is i

01:11:57 provided three exhibits me1 which is i WS 1 0 1 3 m e 2 which is iw s 1 0 0 9 and M III which is iw s 1 0 1 1 and I

01:12:09 and M III which is iw s 1 0 1 1 and I just want to read two paragraphs from that statement if I may paragraphs 32 and 33 then 32 he says when you get to

01:12:23 and 33 then 32 he says when you get to the bottom of the stairs there are two doors one as a fire exit door to the right of this lead straight outside I have had sight of a CCTV still which I exhibit as me2 and this shows the door

01:12:34 exhibit as me2 and this shows the door to the right the other door is to the left and leads into a glass panel area which in turn leads to the main entrance I cannot remember why I didn't exit through the fire door but in general residents would never use that door so

01:12:46 residents would never use that door so it may may have been that it didn't occur to me in the panic of the moment to get out through the glass doors however you need a fob and I remember some moments of panic and I thought we were trapped until I found my fob in the

01:12:58 were trapped until I found my fob in the pocket of my trousers once we got into the main lobby area I could see that there were four firefighters there they were carrying a big red object between them as we went out through the door I remember that one

01:13:09 out through the door I remember that one of the firefighters who I assumed was senior because he had a silver insignia on his shoulder was asking in a general way if anyone had a key they could give him

01:13:17 him I gave him my key and I remember telling him to remember to give the key back to me and to remember that the key belongs to a young descriptor man at this point I was expecting that the fire would soon

01:13:29 I was expecting that the fire would soon be put out now he would have to get back in using our key to the best of my recollection at this point the senior firefighter was just outside the main door mr. Eagle exited the tower at the

01:13:43 door mr. Eagle exited the tower at the same time

01:13:44 same time as his wife and children at zero hours 59 minutes and 48 seconds his statement to his date at the 10th of August also with a statement of truth and like that

01:13:55 with a statement of truth and like that of Jamie Murray it was all of it will stand as evidence to the inquiry and mr. chairman will be taken into account the next statement is that of Alison Moses

01:14:06 next statement is that of Alison Moses she lived alone in flat 11 on floor for that she exited the tower at 0 1 hours 7 minutes and 45 seconds her inquiry

01:14:18 minutes and 45 seconds her inquiry witness statement is iws 3 0 1 and to put a little bit into context she had lived in flat 11 on the fourth floor of

01:14:29 lived in flat 11 on the fourth floor of Grenfell tower for some 13 years she was at home alone on the night of the fire when she heard some banging on her front door and I can pick it up at paragraph nine of her statement and just read a

01:14:42 nine of her statement and just read a few paragraphs 9 to 14 which provide some useful information I was wearing a t-shirt she says so I fetched my

01:14:53 t-shirt she says so I fetched my dressing-gown and put this on I opened my front door and saw my neighbor from flat 16 who was banging on flat 12 and then started banging on other doors on the fourth floor he looked at me and said there had been a fire he was

01:15:05 said there had been a fire he was frantic distraught and panicky which I thought was normal fart behavior for a fire I did not smell anything I did not see any signs of a fire I walked back into my flat to get my keys I already

01:15:17 into my flat to get my keys I already had my mobile phone on me I walked straight into the sitting-room and only when I walked back into the sitting-room could I smell smoke but it was not enough to worry me at the time my kitchen window and living room window

01:15:28 kitchen window and living room window were open I thought about closing them but because they can be difficult to close I decided not to I returned to the communal landing of the floor and my neighbor David from flat 12 was there I

01:15:39 neighbor David from flat 12 was there I told him that there had been a fire and he needs to wake his partner Zoe but she has to come out I did not see anyone else on the landing the lights on the landing were on at the time and I still I could still not smell smoke I closed

01:15:52 I could still not smell smoke I closed the door to my flat behind me pulled the handle up which locks the door I made my way to the stairwell as I knew not to take the lift when there is a fire the door to the stairs was ajar and it did not shut behind me after I'd

01:16:04 and it did not shut behind me after I'd gone through it in early 2017 the spring - this door broke and it would make a loud banging sound every time someone used it I reported this to the TMO at the time he fixed it and not sure what

01:16:16 the time he fixed it and not sure what they did to the door the slamming stopped but the door was always ajar and never shut after that and her statement is dated the as you can see from the

01:16:28 is dated the as you can see from the last page the 18th of May 2018 under a statement of truth and again mr. chairman her statement will stand in full as evidence to the inquiry and be taken into account in full the next

01:16:41 taken into account in full the next statement I would wish to read into the record is that of Zoe Denton that she lived in the tower in flat 12 on the fourth floor with her mother Jenny

01:16:52 fourth floor with her mother Jenny Denton and her sister Leia weeks on the night of the fire she was in the flat with her boyfriend David Benjamin her mother and her sister were visiting her grandmother nearby and Zoe left the

01:17:05 grandmother nearby and Zoe left the tower at oh one 13 and 37 seconds her statement is iws zero eight zero six and

01:17:16 statement is iws zero eight zero six and there are five exhibits z LD 1 2 5 respectively which have an inquiry reference of I WS 800 801 802 803 and

01:17:28 reference of I WS 800 801 802 803 and 804 so he had lived in flat 12 on the 4th floor since she was 4 or 5 years old and that's what she says that paragraph 25 of her statement I would just read

01:17:40 25 of her statement I would just read paragraph 47 of her statement into the record

01:17:48 and I'm going to read down to paragraph 58 which is quite a passage but worth you having at the forefront of your mind mr. chairman she says paragraph 47 at around 1 a.m. I

01:18:00 she says paragraph 47 at around 1 a.m. I woke up to someone banging on our front door I did not know who it was but I now know it was Mahad from flat 15 David and I both got up and went to the front door to see what was happening David looked

01:18:11 to see what was happening David looked out of the spy hole and saw two people running down the communal stairwell he did not recognize them we opened the door and I saw my neighbor Alison from flat bonnet 4 flat 11 who was standing

01:18:22 flat bonnet 4 flat 11 who was standing in the landing she said that there had been a fire babe I think she said that the fire was in flat 16 at this point I could not see or smell smoke but I thought I could smell gas I did not see

01:18:34 thought I could smell gas I did not see anyone else in the communal area at this time I shut the front door and walked into the kitchen area I remember the notices around the building saying that if there was a fire in the building to stay in your flat so

01:18:45 in the building to stay in your flat so I thought that was the best thing to do when I was smoking at the kitchen window I saw my neighbor Mahad who lives at flat 15 he was walking across the grass towards the Leisure Centre with his children I could not see his wife that I

01:18:57 children I could not see his wife that I knew she would be with him and the kids there were also a few other people outside but this time I did not see any evidence of a fire or any smoke from my window I did not hear anyone screaming

01:19:08 window I did not hear anyone screaming to get out or other commotion I called Alison a few minutes later on her phone she answered and said that she was already outside and told me to get out I walked to the front door and opened it

01:19:19 walked to the front door and opened it for the second time to see what was happening when I did I saw two male firefighters standing in the communal area I think they were trying to access the dry riser and either there wasn't any water or they couldn't access it

01:19:31 any water or they couldn't access it they just looked at me but but didn't say anything but we made eye contact I saw a red heavy looking object with them but I do not know what this was I could smell and see a thin layer of smoke above head height in the communal

01:19:44 smoke above head height in the communal area it was like cigarette smoke I was surprised that the firefighters did not say anything to me I closed the front door and decided that we should leave immediately I grabbed my phone and door keys and

01:19:55 I grabbed my phone and door keys and David took his phone and his bank card I was in my pajamas and put on a dressing-gown and first pair of shoes that I could find my Nike sandals at this point I did not think we would be outside for more than half an hour there was no smoke in our

01:20:07 half an hour there was no smoke in our flat when we opened the front door for the third time to leave I could now see that the landing was full of thick black smoke it had only been a few minutes since we had last opened the front door

01:20:18 since we had last opened the front door I was shocked how quickly this had happened I could not see my hands in front of me let alone the fire door I could only just see the communal lighting I did not see the firemen who I had seen by the dry

01:20:30 the firemen who I had seen by the dry riser before I was very scared the smoke alarm bilayers room started to go off David went in front of me and I closed the front door before heading to the fire door using my memory this was

01:20:41 the fire door using my memory this was Lake ated on the right about four or five steps away from my front door I knew not to lose the lifts in in the event of a fire my eyes were stinging and iron hailed some smoke when we were

01:20:54 and iron hailed some smoke when we were leaving the flat which left a horrible taste in my mouth it was difficult to breathe so I put my dressing-gown over my mouth and nose I heard crackling sounds in the communal area it was like popcorn or a campfire

01:21:07 area it was like popcorn or a campfire with crackling wood I could not hear or see anyone else on the landing I was scared and alarmed by all the smoke the communal area was hot when we opened the door to the communal stairwell there was

01:21:19 door to the communal stairwell there was a fireman with a hose I don't know where the hose came from I told him to check that I had closed my front door he acknowledged my comment but did not say anything the stairwell was completely

01:21:31 anything the stairwell was completely clear from smoke and it was not hot I could still smell the smoke but couldn't see it I couldn't smell gas anymore either

01:21:38 either however I just wanted to get out of the building as quickly as possible and as I say they left the tower at 1:13 37 the

01:21:52 say they left the tower at 1:13 37 the statement will also stand of course as evidence to the inquiry in in full and it stands under a statement of truth dated the 1st of July 2008 years

01:22:03 dated the 1st of July 2008 years the next statement is that a of David Andrew Benjamin as you probably just heard he's the boyfriend of Zooey Dayton

01:22:15 heard he's the boyfriend of Zooey Dayton who lived in flat 12 on the fourth floor he visited the tower often and was present in the flat on the 14th of June with Zuri on that night the reference to

01:22:26 with Zuri on that night the reference to his statement is iws zero eight seven six and he evacuated with her at the same time at oh one 1334 there are just

01:22:37 same time at oh one 1334 there are just one or two paragraphs I want to pick up if I may to read out aloud at paragraph 14 in a passage which starts at

01:22:48 14 in a passage which starts at paragraph 11 under the heading the flat he describes the flat and he says this a paragraph 14 the front-door was replaced but I do not remember when but it was before the cladding window replacement

01:23:00 before the cladding window replacement and gas supply works the new door was not self closing and you would have to pull it shut the new door felt light compared to my own flat door the letterbox would snap back when opened and had brushes inside I was not aware

01:23:13 and had brushes inside I was not aware of any damage to the front door prior to the fire and then at paragraph 21 he says there were no sprinklers the fire extinguishers which used to be next to

01:23:24 extinguishers which used to be next to the dry riser in the communal landing were removed during the recent refurbishment I do not know why and at 26 he says before the last refurbishment they used to be a concierge downstairs in the lobby but this disappeared which

01:23:36 in the lobby but this disappeared which was a real shame and then he expresses an opinion about that which I don't need to read and then at paragraph 64 he says and I'll read

01:23:47 at paragraph 64 he says and I'll read till 67 inclusively in describing his exit he says I went to the front door with Zoe behind and opened it the slightest bit there was thick black smoke everywhere diagram of smoke

01:23:58 smoke everywhere diagram of smoke picture descriptions my initial thought was that the fire must have spread I slammed the door shut and got my hoodie and trainers on Zoe put on a dressing-gown and flip-flops we then left with just the clothes that we were

01:24:09 left with just the clothes that we were wearing and our phones nothing else the smoke and the communal landing was thick and black

01:24:14 and black this meant I could not see anything in front of me including my hands or feet I could not breathe I was shocked how rapidly things have changed in such a short space of time it must only have been about 10 to 15

01:24:26 must only have been about 10 to 15 minutes since we've been working up by that by loud banging on our door it was incredibly scary they did not appear to be any firefighters on the landing although I would not have been able to have seen them because of the smoke it

01:24:38 have seen them because of the smoke it was incredibly hot so I assumed that the fire must have spread onto the landing

01:24:44 and mr. chairman that statement will also in full stand as evidence query in its entirety to be taken into account and it stands under a statement of truth

01:24:57 and it stands under a statement of truth provided on the 29th of June 2018 as we can see from page 18 of that statement the next statement I wish to read into the record is that of jenny denton she

01:25:14 the record is that of jenny denton she is a resident of flat 12 grenfell tower on the fourth floor she had lived there for some 25 years prior to the fire and she lived there with Zoey Denton and

01:25:26 and she lived there with Zoey Denton and Leia weeks she was staying with her mother and her daughter there weeks in the area on the night of the fire and returned after the fire had started her statement to the inquiry is I WS zero

01:25:39 statement to the inquiry is I WS zero nine three nine zero nine three nine which I read into the record and she's provided two exhibits jd1 and jd2 under reference iws zero nine three six

01:25:51 under reference iws zero nine three six and zero nine three seven respectively

01:25:59 and I don't think there's anything I need specifically from the statement to read no perhaps paragraph 37 is worth just picking out under the heading fire

01:26:12 just picking out under the heading fire safety he says despite living at Grenville town for 25 years I was never given any safety information fire safety information from either our BK see all the TMO on what to do in the

01:26:24 BK see all the TMO on what to do in the event of a fire I did not know where any assembly points were and we never had a fire drill to my knowledge there was no communal fire alarm or pre-recorded message to warn residents about a fire there were no sprinklers I often

01:26:36 there were no sprinklers I often wondered what we were supposed to do in the event of a fire because we had never been told I'm also not aware of any fire checks being undertaken by the London Fire Brigade at grenfell tower then she

01:26:48 Fire Brigade at grenfell tower then she says 39 during the refurbishment I believe a new sign appeared telling you to stay put in the event of a fire it was located by the lifts in the main foyer at ground level but I do not remember seeing this sign on the fourth

01:27:00 remember seeing this sign on the fourth floor in any event I wouldn't have personally followed this advice in her statement that stands - the enquiry again in its entirety and will be taking into account in full mr. chairman and

01:27:11 into account in full mr. chairman and it's dated the 16th of July 2018 under a statement of truth yes thank you and then finally mr. chairman we have a statement from Eamon

01:27:23 statement from Eamon Zarda he lived alone in flat 54 on floor 8 of grenfell tower he's 36 years old or wasn't the time he made his statement

01:27:34 wasn't the time he made his statement and Grenville tower had always been his home until the night of the fire when he was 10 his parents separated and his mum left and he became a young carer for his

01:27:45 left and he became a young carer for his dad after his dad had a stroke and then his father died when he was 15 years old in 1997 he was always lived in the tower as I say and was supported by other residents and I now want to put into the

01:27:59 residents and I now want to put into the record his inquiry statement which is iw s 0 9 8 9

01:28:04 s 0 9 8 9 and he has four exhibits to that he said 1 2 3 & 4 respectively at I WS 9 7 8 9 7 9 9 8 0 & 9 8 - and he his statement is

01:28:21 9 9 8 0 & 9 8 - and he his statement is provided under a statement of truth which is dated the 19th of July 2018 and again mr. chairman his statement will stand in its entirety as a as its as a

01:28:33 stand in its entirety as a as its as a as evidence to the Enquirer inquiry I've just noted that there is actually something in the statement that just I just want to read aloud into the record if I if I may and that's a paragraph 30

01:28:51 if I if I may and that's a paragraph 30 at the very end he says after having described the events that existed inside the building prior to the refurbishment he says halfway down there was a main

01:29:05 he says halfway down there was a main ventilation vent for the stairway the stairway was always drafty and cool even in the summer it was concrete cool but it was windy you could hear a howl in the staircase I remember some people smoking cigarettes on the stairway and

01:29:16 smoking cigarettes on the stairway and the smoke would just disappear after the refurbishment that all changed the vent was covered over when the new flats were built the stairways became hot stuffy and airless if someone had a cigarette the smoke would stay and linger and I'm

01:29:34 the smoke would stay and linger and I'm asked by mr. mr. Rawat just to pick up the fact that he lived in flat 54 and then moved to flat 53 when he was a year old so I think I started by saying he lived in flat 54 he had done plenty for

01:29:47 lived in flat 54 he had done plenty for a year of his life before moving to flat 53 so it's flat 53 that's the focus of his statement and he left the building at oh one 12 and 29 seconds right I just

01:29:58 at oh one 12 and 29 seconds right I just want to offer my thanks to all of those residents who have provided those details and very useful statements and I commend them to you sir yes well there are

01:30:09 are and contain important evidence which we shall consider together with all the other evidence before the inquiry I'm very grateful as you say grateful to those who taken the trouble to make these statements yes mr. chairman there

01:30:22 these statements yes mr. chairman there are two other matters of housekeeping that I should cover now if I may and I think then that lays the business for the day the first it relates to our witness timetable for this week yeah the fourth witness whom we were due to hear

01:30:36 fourth witness whom we were due to hear tomorrow afternoon Hannon Wahhabi for good reasons is unable to give evidence tomorrow unfortunately we only found out about

01:30:48 unfortunately we only found out about that of very recently we will call her to give evidence at a later date in the program the result of that is that there will only be one witness tomorrow who

01:31:02 will only be one witness tomorrow who will be MiG well Alvarez the husband of Fatima Alves from whom you heard this afternoon he'll come tomorrow morning but we will use some of the time tomorrow to put in further written

01:31:13 tomorrow to put in further written statements into the record as I've done this afternoon right say mr. chairman ten o'clock start is something that I think we can live with yes well

01:31:26 think we can live with yes well uncharacteristically or not inviting you to do anything else no not on this occasion the other thing I should do is just bring people up to date very

01:31:39 just bring people up to date very briefly with disclosure phase one disclosure first of all the position is this excluding technical duplicates identified by our technical advisors the

01:31:52 identified by our technical advisors the inquiry currently has seven 370,000 268 documents those are phase one phase two and expert reports we have 25,000 974

01:32:05 and expert reports we have 25,000 974 documents relating to phase one and two expert materials of which 19,000 and 6 documents have been disclosed to core participants equates equating to some 73

01:32:16 participants equates equating to some 73 percent of the phase 1 documents it's important to bear in mind that many of the phase 1 documents held by the inquiry are duplicates and there's not a

01:32:29 inquiry are duplicates and there's not a which are those not a previously identified by our technical advisors they've been a sport or they've been assessed by the enquiry is not relevant or probative to phase one or else have been determined as relevant to Phase two

01:32:41 been determined as relevant to Phase two and they'll be disclosed as part of Phase two subject to further relevance tests we have currently 343 phase 1 items yet to be disclosed one percent

01:32:52 items yet to be disclosed one percent will say or phase one disclosure all of which are presently proceeding through the inquiries usual processes of redaction and mps approval or non veto

01:33:03 redaction and mps approval or non veto as it were where necessary you know and the majority of those RBS are statements and accompany exhibits which are still coming through we continue to receive disclosure from the lfb from the police

01:33:16 disclosure from the lfb from the police and from bereaved survivors and residents on a rolling basis on receipt of that disclosure the inquiry processes those materials for relevance where we do redaction reviews and we do

01:33:27 do redaction reviews and we do subsequent disclosure as fast as we possibly can but it's inevitable I'm afraid that there will be late receipt of material which results in later disclosure to later caught two core participants at a later stage

01:33:38 participants at a later stage that's just unavoidable but that then leaves three hundred and forty four thousand two hundred and ninety four documents which don't relate to phase one the scale of the inquiries

01:33:50 one the scale of the inquiries disclosure exercise relating to Phase two is significantly larger than phase one and there are some examples I can give of the scale of the disclosure provided to the inquiry relating to

01:34:01 provided to the inquiry relating to Phase two as I'm presently advised Ryden have provided sixty four thousand two hundred forty six documents studio e eleven thousand seven hundred and ninety four than ten thousand four hundred

01:34:12 four than ten thousand four hundred sixty four rbk c twenty seven thousand nine hundred and thirty Secretary of State for the Home Department forty-five thousand nine hundred and twenty two and the Department for Communities local government or ministry of housing the

01:34:24 government or ministry of housing the communities and local government as it now is eighteen thousand four hundred and ten those missed at disclosure is being monitored closely and examined placing for further documents or categories of documents as they come in

01:34:35 categories of documents as they come in and as we go so it's a rolling program the inquiries second level review of Phase two documents has started in earnest good progress is being made on the construction documents and on the

01:34:47 the construction documents and on the aftermath documents you'll remember mr. chairman that we've previously indicated that phase two disclosure will commence after the rule nine witness statements are received from those from whom we

01:34:59 are received from those from whom we have requested them yes we remain on track to release the first tranches of Phase two documents during October and disclosure will continue thereafter on a rolling basis for the rest of the year

01:35:10 rolling basis for the rest of the year and into 2019 we aim to produce a disclosure update in more detail later this month as soon as possible I hope with further details on progress made on document review and an update on

01:35:22 document review and an update on document requests made so I hope that that gives you and everybody else something of a flavour of what we're doing behind the scenes on documents it's very helpful I think everyone here is aware that the volume of material

01:35:35 is aware that the volume of material disclosed in relation to Phase two is enormous

01:35:38 enormous I hope having heard those figures that there are quite a lot of duplicates but even if there aren't there's still evenings there are there going to be a large amount to assimilate yes that's

01:35:49 large amount to assimilate yes that's right

01:35:50 right it just takes time that's right I should just also add because I know people who asked about it that the relevant test they applied is the test in our in operator our documents protocol yes and it's being applied the city asleep by

01:36:01 it's being applied the city asleep by faith level 1 and level 2 reviews good so mr. chairman that concludes the business for the day I'm glad to say and

01:36:10 ask you to place for the day well thank you very much well there it is we shall break now and resume tomorrow morning at 10 o'clock and when we look forward to

01:36:21 10 o'clock and when we look forward to hearing from another witness okay ten o'clock tomorrow then keys