Evidence from bereaved family members, survivors and residents about their experiences during and after the Grenfell Tower fire, emergency accommodation and council response.
00:00:26 would you ask mr chubika to come back in please
00:00:31 [Music]
00:00:40 all right you ready to carry on i am yeah thank you very much yes mrs islam mrs scherbaker i'm now going to ask you some questions about your emergency accommodation
00:00:51 accommodation is it right that you initially stayed with your parents at their home until the 16th of june yes did you try and get any emergency accommodation between the 14th and the
00:01:03 accommodation between the 14th and the 16th of june no i didn't i didn't know there was anything out there for us so i wasn't really concentrating on the accommodation okay and did you receive any communication from the tmo
00:01:14 receive any communication from the tmo or rbkc between those dates offering you any emergency accommodation no i um the only phone call i got from them regarding accommodation was to ask if i wanted to
00:01:27 accommodation was to ask if i wanted to swap
00:01:28 swap um have a house up so basically before the fire
00:01:31 the fire i um applied for a three-bedroom because i had
00:01:35 i had a girl and two boys and i thought i put myself forward for a home swap and then i got a phone call from tmo asking me if i wanted to swap initially i thought it was a prank call
00:01:47 initially i thought it was a prank call or something um
00:01:49 um but it turned out it actually was a genuine call from them i said i'm like i'm from grenfell walk um do you remember when that call was um
00:02:00 um do you remember when that call was um that was
00:02:01 that was it was within the week of of uh the fire i can't be exact on what day date it was all day but it was within the week because i remember coming out of my
00:02:12 because i remember coming out of my mum's house and i was in a car as it happened so and did they offer you any support in relation to what happened with you being evacuated on that call during that call the lady
00:02:24 on that call during that call the lady didn't know anything about the grenfell tower fire this is what she'd told me um she'd been on holiday so i don't know what you're talking about and i said
00:02:35 what you're talking about and i said this is a joke
00:02:38 yeah i i was in this disbelief i was angry i just couldn't believe that i was getting asked this question yeah thank you
00:02:47 thank you and just returning briefly to the to hotel accommodation is it right that it was your father that told you that hotel accommodation might be available for you he was in the local coffee shop um
00:03:00 he was in the local coffee shop um and his friends were saying that people from the area we're getting accommodation now in the host in hotels and he came back and he said to me um you know
00:03:10 you know this is what they're saying in the coffee and i was like in the coffee shop um i didn't know what he was talking about okay yeah and you say in um paragraph 58 of your state your second statement um
00:03:22 of your state your second statement um that you called the council yourself to ask about hotel accommodation do you remember that just wait for you to get to it yep
00:03:35 can you see that there i can yeah i think it will be blown up with a minute for you no it's uh i've read it yeah yeah thank you um so
00:03:44 so after my dad telling me um having that conversation with me i think it was the following morning me and my husband went down to the westway
00:03:53 westway and we inquired there and they gave me a phone number to call which is the town hall it was town hall team office i can't remember at the time um and they told me to call them back
00:04:05 um and they told me to call them back and they'll be looking for accommodation for me and my family yes and that time we had gone up to kensington town hall because there was a protest okay yeah
00:04:15 okay yeah and is it right that you were eventually offered a place at cop thorntara hotel i was yeah and that was on the 16th of june it was a friday yep yep okay and when you when you asked for the
00:04:27 and when you when you asked for the hotel accommodation did you have any issues
00:04:29 issues with the council in terms of were they happy to make the offer of accommodation to you um
00:04:38 um yeah i don't think there was an issue with them i think they just said i'd recalled the conversation just saying we found into a place it's in the kopfontara it's in kensington and they gave me the dress and that was quite
00:04:49 and that was quite that's it i didn't get anything else out of them
00:04:52 of them thank you
00:04:53 thank you i'm now going to ask you some questions about your hotel accommodation more specifically what were your first impressions of the accommodation that you'd been provided
00:05:06 i just looked around and i just thought to myself how are we going to stay in this in these two rooms they gave us two rooms they weren't joining rooms they
00:05:17 rooms they weren't joining rooms they were next to each other um i had an eleven month baby at that time i had a nine-year-old boy very very active and i had a 12-year-old girl that just started secondary school and me and my husband
00:05:29 secondary school and me and my husband and i just remember thinking to myself this is tiny
00:05:34 and then i
00:05:37 then i went to the window and they placed me on the night floor and i just remember thinking this
00:05:44 this must be how the survivors this must have been the view of the survivors
00:05:51 survivors on the night of the fire so
00:05:54 so i was scared i didn't feel safe i didn't know if this was going to be a trap for them to do something to us
00:06:04 as it sounds crazy at the time i remember thinking maybe they're going to do something to this hotel and that's why they've deliberately put us up on the ninth floor and we won't be able to escape and i i mean at that time i remember everything
00:06:15 mean at that time i remember everything going through my head i i didn't like that hotel and it sounded ungrateful but i didn't i didn't like
00:06:24 like where he was but i knew that we just had to
00:06:26 to deal with it yeah and how long did you and your family stay in that hotel we stayed there for nearly a year or just over a year
00:06:37 nearly a year or just over a year okay
00:06:38 okay if i can turn you to uh paragraph 70 of your second witness statement please
00:06:49 you say i tried not to spend much time at the hotel i felt in a cage i could not even sleep there is that right that's correct
00:07:02 and just turning to paragraph 78 of the same statement please
00:07:09 in this paragraph you're talking about your youngest child and you say he took his first steps in the hallway of the hotel his first eid was in the hotel he had been through a lot without even
00:07:21 he had been through a lot without even realizing it i will never forgive the council for this what was your experience of being at the hotel with with young children
00:07:33 it was horrible it wasn't nice
00:07:38 as i said my child was 11 months his main
00:07:42 main stages of development he wasn't meeting anything because he was
00:07:47 he was in a tiny room my daughter was going she started secondary school the ridiculous amount of homework she got from secondary school um she
00:07:58 got from secondary school um she couldn't complete her homework because there was no space for her to do there wasn't even a table there was taylor chairs there but it had our stuff on top of it so she had no access to any rooms
00:08:09 of it so she had no access to any rooms and to do her homework my son's nine years old um as i said before he plays football um he was very active the room
00:08:18 the room it just wasn't suitable for any of us and the children it it was cruel it wasn't that's not
00:08:29 that's not that's not how you're supposed to treat children
00:08:31 children just putting them into little rooms um
00:08:35 um and then expecting them to just to deal with it their children thank you
00:08:43 thank you just briefly touching on your experience of food and drink in the hotel what was your experience of the food provision
00:08:52 provision um
00:08:54 um so i didn't know if we was allowed to have food in a hotel um not till maybe a few days down the line i had asked reception what was included in our hotel my hotel package um if you
00:09:08 in our hotel my hotel package um if you say that's like i'm on a holiday but you're on sun i'm saying um and they said you couldn't have food throughout the day you can have room service or you can go down to the
00:09:19 room service or you can go down to the restaurant um i said okay thank you um when we went down to the restaurant um asked for the menu
00:09:27 menu so basically that was the same as like what mourinho was saying earlier on because i have fish and chips or pizza because they didn't have halal food i did ask the restaurant chef if you did hello
00:09:39 chef if you did hello he asked me what was hello let me answer my question thank you
00:09:46 thank you now i'm going to ask you some questions about financial assistance and basic provisions do you recall getting any financial assistance from rbkc in the first week following the fire no
00:10:01 can i take you to paragraph 89 of your second statement please
00:10:11 you say at the time i did not have anything i remember looking for ready milk cartons i needed with a baby formula and access to hot water i had a kettle in the hotel but i did
00:10:22 i had a kettle in the hotel but i did not have a flask and i was always out running about so i did not have anything i could bring with me and i could not go shopping you continue we needed everything even things
00:10:33 everything even things as simple as water did anybody from rbkc get in touch with you to ensure that these needs were met no
00:10:44 it's correct as well there was water it was
00:10:47 was the
00:10:48 the bathroom water if i wanted to fill the kettle up i'd have to go to the bathroom i've got an 11 month baby that it doesn't take um you know cow's milk at that time he was still on formula i couldn't even
00:11:00 was still on formula i couldn't even it's the simplest thing to make a bottle of milk for my son because i wasn't gonna
00:11:05 gonna put you know bathroom water into a kettle
00:11:09 kettle it's just not you shouldn't do that yeah
00:11:14 yeah and i think you say in your statement um we can go to it if we need to it's paragraph 87 that the first person who offered you money was from an islamic
00:11:23 islamic charity was that within the first week following the fire do you remember that was yes
00:11:29 was yes yeah that was when we first arrived we got out of our car um
00:11:34 um we
00:11:35 we unpacked a few bags a volunteer came over
00:11:39 over and said oh can you put the donations in the room
00:11:44 the room over on mezzanine for i think it was um
00:11:47 um i said so i'm it's not donations this is my family stuff and we're coming to the hotel because this is where we've been placed
00:11:55 placed um and then that my husband parked the car up um we walked through the lobby and then we saw the man that offered us help and that was the first
00:12:07 and that was the first kind of
00:12:08 kind of financial help that we got was from that charity
00:12:12 charity thank you
00:12:15 thank you attorney now pleased to psychosocial support
00:12:18 support did you receive any psychological support from the council in the first week following the fire no
00:12:27 do you recall there being any such support available when you had attended the westway centre no
00:12:34 no was any such support available at your hotel in the first week following the fire not that i knew of
00:12:42 can i take you please to paragraph 99 of your second statement
00:12:47 and you say i think the council should have organized psychological support at that stage i remember seeing my people my community like zombies completely
00:12:58 my community like zombies completely blank or crying their eyes out what specific support would you and your family have benefited from in the first week following the fire
00:13:09 just someone to come and check up on us just to set just just to even offer some sort of
00:13:17 sort of support
00:13:18 support um psychological support but there was nothing anyone came up to us and
00:13:28 later on in your statement um it's not paragraph 103 if we need to go to it but you say that someone from hestia told you that letters were being put under survivors doors
00:13:40 put under survivors doors advising them of psychological support that you never received those letters is that right that's correct but that was after seven days um this lady was
00:13:51 after seven days um this lady was at the lobby of the hotel and i was always seeing her there with a group of people and some being survivors that she was talking to and i just assumed that she was a survivor
00:14:03 assumed that she was a survivor um and it wasn't until later on me and my husband was sitting downstairs and she said
00:14:08 she said oh i'm
00:14:09 oh i'm i'm allowed to say her name i might
00:14:12 i might ask if you would like yeah okay so i'm sydney and i'm from hestia um how are you guys and i said oh you're what what's sdr and she said a head series a
00:14:23 series a therapy and company i don't know um and we're here like if you need any help we've been given letters and that's why she told me about the letter and i said i haven't received any letter
00:14:35 and i said i haven't received any letter and
00:14:35 and she said well they've been posting it and i said well i have changed rooms since i originally got there and i'm assuming that they didn't update anybody about their moving us rooms inside because i never ever once did i get a
00:14:47 because i never ever once did i get a letter from hestia or they cancel and had you have known about the service would you have used it at that time when i was speaking to senior yes i would have used it for my
00:15:00 senior yes i would have used it for my my children my daughter especially so yeah
00:15:04 so yeah and if i could turn you uh take you please to paragraph 129 of your second statement
00:15:15 you say but in general the response in respect of psychiatric therapy was inappropriate majorly lacking and unempathetic so we decided to pursue private rehabilitation through corporal is that
00:15:27 rehabilitation through corporal is that right
00:15:28 right yes but again that was way after the seven days that was probably september it wasn't it wasn't like instant that after
00:15:39 after fire okay
00:15:40 fire okay and if i can take you please uh back to paragraph 110 of your second statement
00:15:49 you say i was offered a social worker then social workers changed over to key workers they kept on changing all the time i probably went through eight or nine key workers support workers
00:16:00 nine key workers support workers whatever workers it was hard to start again every time i felt like i was constantly repeating myself i felt like when i clicked with somebody every time i liked someone the council would take that person away from
00:16:13 council would take that person away from me
00:16:14 me is that right that's correct yes do you remember whether you were allocated a social worker or a key worker within the first week following the fire or did it come afterwards after it wasn't first week
00:16:26 after it wasn't first week and what was the impact of the repeated changes in that support
00:16:33 it's just traumatizing every single time you have to repeat what you've been through and bear in mind i wasn't only speaking for myself i was speaking for my husband i was speaking for my three children
00:16:42 children so i had to constantly go for it all the time it was draining
00:16:48 draining upsetting
00:16:49 upsetting and and
00:16:50 and and very disappointing because these are strangers to me and i have to repeat myself constantly or at a time when
00:16:58 when really they should have had you know notes written down and and know my situation rather than having to ask me from scratch what happened it was just it was horrible
00:17:08 horrible did you find any of the social workers or key workers that you did have helpful to you and your family yes i did there was
00:17:16 there was a couple of them maybe two that were really good but the problem was they were either getting promoted um so
00:17:24 um so being like the team leader or something or they would leave um and i just felt it was constant like as soon as you finally found somebody that could
00:17:37 finally found somebody that could not understand but simplifies of what you're going through and
00:17:41 and help you and the stuff that you really need help with next thing i'd get a phone call okay well i've left my position and i'm going to bring somebody or i'll get in contact with
00:17:52 or i'll get in contact with so-and-so so the next worker was constantly it was i say eight and nine workers but i key workers but even up until this date is way over 15
00:18:05 is way over 15 workers
00:18:06 workers okay thank you i'm going to ask you now some questions about public communication of support services available you've touched on this already but were you aware of any efforts by rbkc or the
00:18:20 you aware of any efforts by rbkc or the tmo to communicate with residents in the first week following the fire no
00:18:28 can i take you please to paragraph 145 of your second statement
00:18:40 i'm just going to read through some of these paragraphs you say they never give us any information they would not communicate with us you had to actively try and find out it was always me looking for information not knowing what
00:18:52 looking for information not knowing what i was looking for i knew about services offered by a word of mouth or by attending meetings i knew about the meetings because i was sitting in the lobby and people would ask me to attend the council could have organized text
00:19:03 the council could have organized text messages whatsapp broadcasts but they never did the council had my number but they would never contact me some survivors and i created a whatsapp group to communicate with our neighbours
00:19:14 group to communicate with our neighbours and residents to let everyone know what was going on the council were not helpful to me but i was helpful to them i was helping them to do their job because i was so active in the community i was telling them what
00:19:25 in the community i was telling them what people needed and facilitating communication between the council and the people is that right yes correct yes
00:19:37 is that right yes correct yes and again you've touched on this but what was the impact of not having a clear community clear communication of the support and services that were available
00:19:46 available it was it just made my life hell because i just like i said that i didn't i didn't know what i was looking for i didn't know if i was coming or going
00:19:57 i was coming or going um and then when i finally did find somebody and they spoke to me i would be telling them that actually no
00:20:08 i would be telling them that actually no this is how it is and it was just i was i felt like here i felt like i was doing their job for them because i thought i was more knowledgeable than the actual official people um and
00:20:19 um and it was really frustrating okay
00:20:22 okay now you mentioned earlier that you got a call from somebody from the tmo who did not know about what had happened i want to take you to paragraph 173 please of your statement
00:20:38 it says here on wednesday morning so you're talking about the the 14th of june here i had a phone call from the tmo i had a conversation with my housing officer she sounded quite relieved when
00:20:50 officer she sounded quite relieved when she heard my voice she said oh hanan are you all right are you and your family okay i said yeah we are okay bye okay i just wanted to know that you are safe do you remember this call yes was it on the
00:21:02 you remember this call yes was it on the 14th yeah
00:21:03 14th yeah yeah um and was that from somebody from the tmo as you say that was a lady called dion and i think she i think she was my housing officer did she ask you where you were staying
00:21:14 did she ask you where you were staying or where you were going no literally that was our conversation that i can remember
00:21:19 remember i don't remember asking me where i'm staying not you don't know if i was fine and my family were it's right to say that then that you weren't giving it given any information that about where to get emergency accommodation or any other support no
00:21:32 accommodation or any other support no i just remember stupidly asking her um do i need to pay my rent this week because i didn't it sounds so silly at the time but she said no of course you don't and and that's it that's the only part of the
00:21:44 that's it that's the only part of the conversation that we had i had with her and that was nothing she didn't tell me where to go or what i should do yeah okay and turning please to ask you about the
00:21:55 and turning please to ask you about the the community response what was your experience of the voluntary and community response in the immediate aftermath of the fire they were amazing the community people from outside our community just
00:22:07 people from outside our community just came in volunteered and just got on with it and they i still say to this day if it wasn't for them i don't know where any of us us would be because they held us they
00:22:19 they held us they they kept us going
00:22:23 and in your view how did the voluntary response compare to the official response
00:22:29 i felt like i could talk more to the people that were volunteering than actual people that were official and there would be times when i would go to a volunteer and ask them please could you contact the council and
00:22:40 please could you contact the council and find this out for me because i was just tired of
00:22:43 tired of repeating myself over and over again and i'm blessed and they did they did they'd come back to me and they'd say to me you know i found this out for you do this and we'll do that i'll go here and
00:22:54 and they
00:22:55 they did everything you know as much as their power they could do with the council i just i wasn't comfortable going to them because again i just
00:23:04 i just i felt it used to this i would go to them and then they would tell me something and i'll be like well that's not correct and then they'd go off and blow oh actually hannah yeah you're right it's not correct so i just thought it pointless going to them
00:23:15 it pointless going to them and i just asked volunteers please can you just help me i'm just tired and they understood and and they did it and you know i can't praise them enough and i'm always grateful for for what they've done for us
00:23:27 done for us when i say us i'm referring to my family also
00:23:30 also on behalf of everybody else speaking to neighbours and everything they appreciate what they did for them yeah
00:23:38 yeah i'm going to turn now to the last section of my questions and i want to ask you about your experience of the overall response and i want to take you please to paragraph 184 of your statements and i'm going to
00:23:51 184 of your statements and i'm going to read a few of your passages if that's okay yeah so you say the response was inadequate and lacking as grenfell walk residents we were being pushed away we felt like
00:24:02 we were being pushed away we felt like we were nobody the council should have also also the council should also have reassured us that there was some support in place for us victims were driving the response i was doing their job disseminating the
00:24:14 doing their job disseminating the information for them because they would never communicate with us giving us information i knew how important it was to disseminate legitimate information so i had to step into that aziza and i founded the grenfell walk residents
00:24:26 founded the grenfell walk residents association because we knew how important it was to communicate with everyone we did it because we had to we were doing their job for them
00:24:37 just going to ask you a couple of questions about that passage yeah do you feel and again i've touched on this before but do you feel that you were treated differently because you were a walkway resident
00:24:48 because you were a walkway resident rather than a tower resident yes
00:24:52 did you notice any difference in the provision of support on the 16th of june when something called the london gold group took over were you aware of that
00:25:03 were you aware of that no it was it gold was was it called something else i remember gold being in their name but i don't remember what you just said okay did you notice any difference in things getting
00:25:14 notice any difference in things getting better on the 16th onwards no okay
00:25:21 and in paragraph 191 and we can go to it if you want to you say the council should have taken action after having listened to our concerns instead they would listen but they would they never took in
00:25:33 listen but they would they never took in what we said they were constantly repeating the same mistakes is that right
00:25:39 so um i think when i'm talking about this i'm talking i think i'm talking about grandfather walk um i don't know how much you know of um grand football i'm assuming a lot but um
00:25:50 grand football i'm assuming a lot but um the friend fell walk um we
00:25:53 we were
00:25:54 were evacuated from our properties and from this day never been able to go back when the walkways were able to go back we wasn't able to go back um so
00:26:04 um so the council were aware of this but me and aziza and my husband um sometimes uh maybe a couple other people from grandfather had to go in there and explain our case and our situation and
00:26:18 explain our case and our situation and it was a constant they would be um sympathetic to you but then nothing would come out of it you'd have to repeat yourself again and again and
00:26:29 to repeat yourself again and again and again and it was then that me and aziza took up on our house to open to a residence association so to be taken seriously because i don't feel like we was i thought we just they
00:26:42 feel like we was i thought we just they thought oh they're just trying to milk it or they're just you know trying to get us to give them stuff and it wasn't like that at all we needed help desperately and every door we kept on going to was closed because we wasn't ever bereaved or it wasn't a survivor so
00:26:55 ever bereaved or it wasn't a survivor so we was in between so we didn't come out the tower but we also couldn't go back to our property so we were homeless but nobody was helping so we had to do this
00:27:08 and we're still doing it to this day is there anything further you would like to add to your evidence today [Music]
00:27:16 [Music] yes then
00:27:18 yes then i
00:27:20 i like everybody else i said as well i'm um i
00:27:25 pray to god that nobody ever has to deal with what we've dealt with and people learn from their mistakes people as i mean when i say people i mean the
00:27:37 as i mean when i say people i mean the local authority government have a plan in action god forbid if anything did happen like this again because it's it's not fair anybody has to deal
00:27:49 it's it's not fair anybody has to deal with this
00:27:50 with this i would
00:27:51 i would like
00:27:52 like people to take responsibility for what they have done be it the government local authority it just can't happen again um
00:28:02 um and confirm if it does they need to know what to do and act and don't let anybody have to go through the heartbreak that everybody else that we have been through as a community bereaved survivors and i also think it's really important
00:28:15 and i also think it's really important that
00:28:16 that people understand that the
00:28:20 the adults
00:28:22 adults were treated bad with disrespect completely but a big thing is i feel that nobody's taken into consideration the
00:28:33 nobody's taken into consideration the children of what they've been through nobody
00:28:36 nobody looked at their needs sorry it's okay nobody looked at their knees
00:28:42 knees these kids were trying to deal with witnessing the biggest tragedy ever they're probably ever gonna witness in their life um
00:28:52 um they were trying to cope with death of friends and family and these are children they can't process that they can't understand what they've just witnessed and what death is whereas
00:29:04 witnessed and what death is whereas adults we can kind of understand children they can't they were thrown back and forward that
00:29:14 they had no choice they just had to follow their parents or their carers they just
00:29:19 they just they had to go with what was ever happening like i said with my situation i had a baby there was no nursery play rooms anything offered nothing at all
00:29:30 rooms anything offered nothing at all during that stay in a hotel study for children there was nothing there was just they were just completely ignored
00:29:37 ignored and
00:29:38 and and i don't know how damaging that's going to be to any children especially my own
00:29:42 my own so
00:29:43 so i just need somebody to to open their eyes and and and consider this if it was to ever happen again because these children didn't deserve that as much as the adults these children have voices but they're
00:29:55 these children have voices but they're too young to speak and it's only us as adults have to be their voice and you know i just can't stress enough that
00:30:05 that don't let this happen again and take responsibility for what you've what you've done stop blaming on each other step up
00:30:18 those are all the questions that i want to ask you we're going to pause to see if there are any questions from anyone else well as you know we we have a short break at this point to see if there are
00:30:30 break at this point to see if there are questions are going to be suggested from other sources so we'll come back in just under ten minutes twenty to three and then we'll see if there are any more questions for you okay all right thank
00:30:41 questions for you okay all right thank you thank you very much would you give the usher please
00:30:53 thank you mrs long 20 to 3 uh uh if you want more time of course we'll consider it but i think that's unlikely i think so thank you very much
00:41:10 would you ask mr beaks to come back in please okay
00:41:22 good all right we'll see if there's any more questions okay thank you thank you yes this islam there's no further questions so just to say thank you very much for coming today your evidence thank you welcome thank you for having me well let me thank you
00:41:34 you for having me well let me thank you as well because i think all three members of the panel have felt it uh found it really interesting and helpful to hear what you have to tell us you obviously had a very difficult time with it and i'm sorry that if
00:41:45 that if may it may have distressed you to be reminded of it or at least you know to tell us all about it but it has been very helpful thanks and we're very grateful to you so thank you very much indeed thank you very much and now
00:41:57 much indeed thank you very much and now you're free to go thank you all right thank you
00:42:08 thank you very much mrs islam now i don't think we have any more witnesses to call today do we we don't so um at that point then we shall
00:42:19 that point then we shall close for the day and we shall resume on monday the 25th 25th of april after we've had a short break for easter
00:42:31 short break for easter so we look forward to seeing everybody then
00:42:34 then and
00:42:35 and as i say
00:42:37 as i say it will be 10 o'clock on the 25th of april thank you thank you very much indeed
00:43:20 you