Grenfell Tower Inquiry - Evidence from BSRs (1 November 2018 Pt 1 of 2)
00:03:06 you
00:03:53 you
00:14:34 good morning everyone welcome to today's hearing and again we're going to hear evidence from people who were in the tower at the time of the fire mr.
00:14:46 tower at the time of the fire mr. chairman good morning we are and our next witness is Miss Alamos yet de Missy can I call please mr. Missy thank you
00:15:23 I swear by Almighty God that the evidence I shall give shall be the truth
00:15:38 things thank you very much mr. misty would you like to sit down and make yourself comfortable good yes left a
00:15:51 yourself comfortable good yes left a minute
00:15:58 mr. Missy good morning can i start by asking you please to give the chairman your full name i'll em themself and are you sometimes called alan yes i want
00:16:12 are you sometimes called alan yes i want to begin by asking by thanking you for coming here today to help us with our investigations we are very grateful to you and we really appreciate your assisting us if at any time during my
00:16:24 assisting us if at any time during my questions you need a break you feel that bringing it the events of the night back is it is troubling we can stop we could take a break at any time well aim to sit and take your evidence
00:16:38 well aim to sit and take your evidence for not more than an hour at a time but as i say if at any point you want to break before that we can do that also if my questions don't make sense to you or they get muddled up or you don't
00:16:50 they get muddled up or you don't understand them please ask and i will put the question again or we'll put it in a different way I should just also say that sometimes when you're answering my question I'm looking at my screen or my notes or your
00:17:03 looking at my screen or my notes or your statement it doesn't mean that I'm not listening to you I'm very much listening to what you you're telling us all right say can I then start by asking you
00:17:14 say can I then start by asking you please to look at your your witness statement that you've prepared for the inquiry and that is iws five zeros eight six zero and you'll see that mr. Missy
00:17:26 six zero and you'll see that mr. Missy on the screen on the desk in front of you you can also use the screen at the back of the room if you want to is this the first page of the witness statement you've made for this inquiry yes and if
00:17:42 you've made for this inquiry yes and if we can please look at the last page of that statement
00:17:47 which is page seven you'll see a signature is that your signature yes says and it's dated the 30th of June
00:18:00 says and it's dated the 30th of June 2018 I don't think that you've confirmed in writing that the contents of this statement are true but can I ask you now are the contents of this statement true
00:18:12 are the contents of this statement true yes thank you have you had an opportunity to read it recently yes okay and I can confirm for the record that there are no exhibits now I want to ask
00:18:24 there are no exhibits now I want to ask you if I can to start with there's some questions about background but your background in the building you lived I think in flat 94 on the 12th floor of
00:18:35 think in flat 94 on the 12th floor of the tower yes I lived in flat 94 and how long did you live there for 15 years I
00:18:48 long did you live there for 15 years I think you say in your statement that you'd lived there we've all moved in there in 2004 yeah I think I don't exactly remember when but sparc 2004 yes
00:18:59 exactly remember when but sparc 2004 yes okay and as at June 2017 at the time of the fire who are you living with in the plants I was living on my own on your
00:19:11 plants I was living on my own on your own did you rent the flat yes who did you rent it from from there are a borough of Kensington do you remember ever receiving any safe fire safety
00:19:22 ever receiving any safe fire safety advice at the time you moved into grenfell tower in 2004 I don't know that was a long time ago I don't remember
00:19:33 was a long time ago I don't remember that
00:19:37 do you remember ever receiving any fire safety advice for the whole time you were a resident at grenfell tower I don't particularly remember a fire
00:19:51 don't particularly remember a fire safety advice but I remember about a couple of times a lady called Claire coming and asking me questions about the
00:20:07 coming and asking me questions about the threats and how I felt things right did she ask you questions about say anything about fire safety I don't remember when
00:20:21 about fire safety I don't remember when did she give when did she make these visits this Claire do you remember
00:20:26 before and after that if after the refurbishment very fast went okay
00:20:36 can I ask you please to be shown inq six zeros 93 when it comes I mean yes it's
00:20:50 zeros 93 when it comes I mean yes it's on me it's on the monitor now mr. reference to the dolly talk yes now this is a picture of a sign which
00:21:04 now this is a picture of a sign which was in Granville tower at the time of the fire my question is did you ever see a sign like this in the building
00:21:14 I don't remember to be honest I don't I mean it's my weakness I don't pay attention to these things and I do remember something this I don't I don't
00:21:26 remember something this I don't I don't I cannot stand it percent I'm sorry okay in general terms what was your understanding of what you should do if there was a fire anywhere in Grenfell
00:21:38 there was a fire anywhere in Grenfell tower my understanding was to leave the floods as soon as the fire as soon as fire starts not to use a lift to follow
00:21:50 fire starts not to use a lift to follow them you know well and go downstairs for the stairs that's my understanding did you have any fire alarms or smoke alarms in your flat inside yes inside
00:22:04 alarms in your flat inside yes inside what did you have I had a smoke alarm and in the living room in the kitchen on
00:22:15 and in the living room in the kitchen on the corridor on the corridor so a smoke alarm in the living room in the kitchen and in the corridor yes hallway of your flat I'm not sure about the living room but the corridor definitely and the
00:22:28 but the corridor definitely and the kitchen definitely did you install them no they know I didn't though they destroyed it who's they sorry the council the council do you remember whether they were working in a
00:22:41 remember whether they were working in a sense of operate operable functioning in June 2017 yeah though ones in the flat yes yes do you remember whether after
00:22:53 yes yes do you remember whether after you moved in to your flat in 2004 at any time your front door to the flat was replaced yes it was replaced yeah but when was that it was before the
00:23:05 when was that it was before the refurbishment the refurbishment that door was replaced I don't know maybe four or five years I don't remember but yes it was do you remember whether it was a self
00:23:17 do you remember whether it was a self closing door the door that was that the new door
00:23:23 yes it's a self-closing dog it was do you remember whether as at June 2017 your front door was a self closing door
00:23:35 no no the second one was not self closing I don't know I don't remember I mean initially I remember we have the self closing door but the second time
00:23:48 self closing door but the second time I'm not sure we needed to lock it from outside I don't know because I'm in a now in a flat which is
00:23:59 because I'm in a now in a flat which is no self closing so I got fulfilled I'm getting confused right when you well for example when you came in with the heavy things books shopping whatever it is do you remember whether you need door
00:24:12 is do you remember whether you need door would close behind you or you'd have to put your things down and close it you mean when I come out or we're coming in when I'm coming in okay now were you
00:24:30 when I'm coming in okay now were you aware did you have a sense of awareness at around the time of the refurbishment of a smoke or ventilation or extraction
00:24:43 of a smoke or ventilation or extraction system in the communal lobbies
00:24:51 in the common lobby zooming on outside yes outside the flat in the landing where the lifts are there there is
00:25:05 where the lifts are there there is something which I saw but I don't know I didn't know what it was you see I mean this is about me I failed to notice things and maybe there was but
00:25:18 to notice things and maybe there was but I I don't know do you remember a noise of hearing a noise of ventilation or extraction of air or something like that at any time now in your statement you
00:25:32 at any time now in your statement you haven't said anything about the windows the new windows that were installed as part of the refurbishment can I ask you in or after 2016
00:25:44 can I ask you in or after 2016 do you remember noticing any problems with the windows that had been installed in your flat as part of the refurbishment no sometimes small wind
00:25:55 refurbishment no sometimes small wind coming I had noticed coming through their living room window sometimes nothing else did whereabouts around the
00:26:07 nothing else did whereabouts around the living room window do you remember noticing on the left hand side when I sit on the sofa sometimes you say sometimes well yeah I mean you know it
00:26:19 sometimes well yeah I mean you know it wasn't a big problem for me to be honest you know it didn't bother me much did you ever discuss that no with anybody no okay now I'm going to turn to the night
00:26:33 okay now I'm going to turn to the night of the fire itself 13th 14th of June 2017 in your statement at paragraph 7 if you could just go to that on page 2 of
00:26:44 you could just go to that on page 2 of your statement under the heading night of the fire
00:26:51 you can see that you say that on that night you had a Bible study group and your friend Ethiopia was staying with
00:27:02 your friend Ethiopia was staying with you is that Ethiopia SFL yeah that's right okay do you remember whether you both went to sleep after the other members of the Bible study group had
00:27:14 members of the Bible study group had left yes
00:27:16 left yes and you say in paragraph nine of your statement that a phone call wake me up yes it was a call on my mobile you say at a point 1:30 a.m. from a brother from
00:27:29 at a point 1:30 a.m. from a brother from cherish how do you remember that it was about 1:30 a.m. I think I checked it on
00:27:40 about 1:30 a.m. I think I checked it on my more wine [Music]
00:27:47 we're about 130 yeah yeah were you asleep at that time you were asleep yeah and when you refer to a brother from church are you referring to a member of
00:27:58 church are you referring to a member of your church congregation yes and you explained in paragraphs 10 and 11 of how that person came to know you and and and
00:28:12 that person came to know you and and and call you a paragraph 12 you say this is page 3 when I first woke up I did not realize how serious the situation was I
00:28:23 realize how serious the situation was I quickly got dressed and said to Ethiopia that there was a fire and we needed to go at this point I was relaxed so my question is what was your first instinct
00:28:35 question is what was your first instinct to leave the building yes at that point did you see any signs of smoke in your flat nothing the flat
00:28:48 of smoke in your flat nothing the flat no did you see signs of smoke anywhere else at that stage when I blew the door we saw that the smoke before you open the door after no before the before they
00:29:00 the door after no before the before they know right when you wake up and go dress there was Miss Manners by smoke did you look out of the windows of the flaten at that stage no no we went straight
00:29:13 that stage no no we went straight through the door
00:29:16 was there any smell in your flat of anything particular no and in paragraph 12 a little bit lower down you go on to
00:29:27 12 a little bit lower down you go on to say however as soon as I opened the door the smoke was so bad that I couldn't see anything it was dark and smelt of chemicals before you open the door do
00:29:41 chemicals before you open the door do you remember whether you saw any signs of smoke coming from around the door no it was when we opened the door we are we
00:29:52 it was when we opened the door we are we realized that there was smoke right when you open the door and you you saw it you say this
00:29:59 say this it was so bad you couldn't see anything what do you remember what color it was it's just black cloud deeds just
00:30:10 it's just black cloud deeds just completely no smoke but they think we couldn't see through it alright were there any signs of light electric light in the look in the landing at all
00:30:22 light in the look in the landing at all no there wasn't
00:30:26 now you describe the smell as smelt of chemicals can you describe that a bit more for us what kind of chemicals it
00:30:37 more for us what kind of chemicals it wasn't normal it was like like chemical I don't know what particular smell but it just it smelt something but I can't
00:30:51 it just it smelt something but I can't describe that smell was it like anything you'd ever smelled before no did it have when you smelt it did it have any particular physical effect on you I've
00:31:04 particular physical effect on you I've outstayed you know at that stage no okay
00:31:10 now in paragraph 12 at the end you say in the last sentence I do not know the exact time but it must have been between 1:35 a.m. and 1:45 a.m. how do you
00:31:23 1:35 a.m. and 1:45 a.m. how do you estimate that to be the time range yeah because I mean we got about 1:30 and then it went to eat up and told her
00:31:35 then it went to eat up and told her there was fire and she got dressed so I was just estimating it from that I didn't look at that time you okay you opened the door did you try to set foot
00:31:47 opened the door did you try to set foot in the lobby or you did did you close the door again immediately no we didn't we just went to sit the DOE she had her back on haha on her and I just we just
00:32:00 back on haha on her and I just we just went straight to the door we opened it and just completely think and we just we knew we couldn't see with we couldn't breathe so we just said it's better to
00:32:13 breathe so we just said it's better to stay in and wait you know and something happens so how long was your front door open for before you closed it again not long we just closed it immediately did it let much smoke into the flat no
00:32:27 did it let much smoke into the flat no no no when we closed the door there was no smoke in the flats when you opened the door for the first time I know this may be difficult but do you remember
00:32:38 may be difficult but do you remember hearing anything particular coming from the lobby any particular sound no
00:32:53 and and it sounds like a rather strange question but what why didn't you try and leave that at that stage to be honest we
00:33:06 leave that at that stage to be honest we wanted to we wanted to and that was you know in fact it be said I'm not coming back here because she said I go down and I got to work right then she said she
00:33:18 I got to work right then she said she was not going to go back so flat and we wanted to but there was nothing we were unable to see anything and we knew you know not we couldn't make it to anywhere so we went back and we decided to stay
00:33:31 so we went back and we decided to stay in right now we know from the transcripts of your 999 calls that the first call you made to 999 was at 224
00:33:44 first call you made to 999 was at 224 and 19 seconds and I'll just read the reference
00:33:48 reference it's lfb 3 5 3 so that's 224 a.m. which means it is this right that there was about 50 minutes or so maybe 45 to 50
00:34:01 about 50 minutes or so maybe 45 to 50 minutes during which you spent time in the flat before you made that call is that is that about right ok now I want
00:34:12 that is that about right ok now I want to ask you about that period of time between you waking up going to the front door and opening it coming back into the flat and then making your call 50 or so
00:34:23 flat and then making your call 50 or so minutes later and can I ask you first to be shown and I'm asking the documents director to show you Emmie T triple 0 1 2 5 9 3 page 12 now I should just
00:34:39 2 5 9 3 page 12 now I should just explain to you mr. Missy what this is this is a cross-section plan of grenfell tower as at the time of the fire showing the layout of the building with with the six flats and the central lift lobby
00:34:52 six flats and the central lift lobby core you were in flat 94 so you're in the middle one on the west side is that right
00:35:00 right first of all yeah and this is in fact as you can see the plan for flats one through two six that the layouts the same from the
00:35:11 that the layouts the same from the fourth floor upwards that's a flat four would be flat 94 can I just have flat for expanded please during the period of
00:35:27 for expanded please during the period of time that we're talking about between you shutting the door the front door and making your first nine nine called where were you in the flat can you point us out pointed out to us when between the
00:35:40 out pointed out to us when between the living room and you're in the living room yeah did you move around the flat at all or did you stay in the living room between before the phone call
00:35:51 before the phone call and before closing the door
00:35:55 the door so after closing the door but before the phone call during that 50-minute period yeah do you remember where you were in the flat we were in the living room and at one stage we went to the bedroom to
00:36:13 at one stage we went to the bedroom to close the window I don't know what at what time the window the bedroom window was open set half open or something little open not very much and we went to
00:36:24 little open not very much and we went to close the window I remember that right and why did you do that do you remember because I think the smoke started coming
00:36:36 because I think the smoke started coming in and then we noticed that the window was open we yeah and when you closed the window did that keep the smoke out or did this mate continue to come in we
00:36:47 did this mate continue to come in we thought it would and the smoke now it started coming in you know properly and first we thought it was through the window so it throws the window and the smoke started coming through the door
00:36:59 smoke started coming through the door how this is difficult because difficut time is certainly difficult on the night of the fiber how long after you closing the front door having first tried to get
00:37:12 the front door having first tried to get out and you noticing the smoke coming in through the window elapsed okay
00:37:22 did you notice the smoke starting to come in through anywhere else in the flat during that period yeah so the door from the living room so can you just
00:37:33 from the living room so can you just point out down you know down through you know them all down through the floor the door say between the door and the floor
00:37:44 door say between the door and the floor okay in the door between the living room and the hole is that know from the outside door am turbo the front from the front door the front door yeah okay and
00:37:56 front door the front door yeah okay and how long before let's try this one right this way how long before your first nine nine nine call did you start to notice smoke coming through the bottom of the door
00:38:09 [Music]
00:38:14 well when we made the first nine nine call it was about 2:30 to train to something and about stage the smoke was
00:38:28 something and about stage the smoke was coming in the living room and in the different rooms just smoke was coming in yes and what I'm trying to get a sense of how long before yes how long before
00:38:41 of how long before yes how long before the nine line line called did you first start noticing smoke coming through flat
00:38:49 [Music] okay now before you called nine nine nine
00:38:56 nine do you remember whether you felt a change in the temperature in the flat at all yes could you describe what happened when the temperature changed the
00:39:08 when the temperature changed the temperature was rising and we were feeling hot and especially it took we started feeling hot because she was wearing thin shoes and we were feeling
00:39:19 wearing thin shoes and we were feeling it we were feeling it I don't we don't know what degree but it was getting hotter and water really and before the
00:39:30 hotter and water really and before the 999 call before you made your first 999 call could you describe the heat I mean dizzy was it at that point as hot as a summers day or hotter or or cooler it
00:39:42 summers day or hotter or or cooler it just water it was hotter than a summers day yeah it was hotter than a summers okay we'll come back to the question of temperature and how to how to measure the head later on and before you called
00:39:54 the head later on and before you called nine nine nine at 224 did you try to leave again before yes did you make a cell we we may have opened the door
00:40:08 cell we we may have opened the door again but I don't remember but a trip is started putting you know things between the door and the floor you know to stop
00:40:22 the door and the floor you know to stop the fits more coming in so we started block the smoke because we're scared the smoke was coming in at any point during that that period between your first
00:40:36 that that period between your first attempt to leave the flat and your 999 call do you remember looking out of the windows and seeing what was going on outside yes we did but what we thought when we closed the door
00:40:47 when we closed the door what we thought was well this is like when we opened it was we knew it was bad and we knew we couldn't leave so the immediate thing we did was yeah we tried
00:40:58 immediate thing we did was yeah we tried to look through the window and we said let's pray and we stopped we started reading the relevant chapters we thought were relevant to the situation and we read some books some son chapters from
00:41:09 read some books some son chapters from the Psalms and then we started praying and all along we're praying but we were looking especially - he was looking through the window more than I was and we were praying all through all in you
00:41:23 we were praying all through all in you did did you see anything outside during yeah we saw we saw I looked when I looked out we saw fire fighters I didn't see the engine but there were some
00:41:34 see the engine but there were some firefighters across we can see and we knew they were there and so we just continued praying and if they were there there was no needed so we thought there was no need to ring 999 because they
00:41:45 was no need to ring 999 because they already knew so we just thought the best thing was to pray yes I see do you remember seeing any smoke or sparks or flames outside the building when you win yeah yeah I through the
00:41:57 when you win yeah yeah I through the window just you know like something coming down I don't know what the flames I mean you did see that yes can you tell us in which direction you looked through
00:42:10 us in which direction you looked through the living-room window and were the flames to your left yeah what flames are coming from this side to this side like this say from the from your right on your right side from
00:42:21 from your right on your right side from right to left right I see so you can not north to south yeah okay now you then call nine nine nine as as as we see to 24 19 and again to ask
00:42:35 as as we see to 24 19 and again to ask you to look at the transcript which is lfb
00:42:39 lfb at 3 5 3 l FB 3 5 3 now mister Missy
00:42:50 at 3 5 3 l FB 3 5 3 now mister Missy just to help you with the timing of this if you look at the top of the page on the screen in front of you you can see a long line of blue numbers and letters the time for this call is the group of
00:43:05 the time for this call is the group of numbers second from the right Oh two two four one nine which is 202 am 24 minutes and 19 seconds and we can see
00:43:16 24 minutes and 19 seconds and we can see that the phone call starts on page 2 operate a fire brigade hello hello hello fire brigade can I help you over speaking yeah there is fire here in Granville tower and we are in flat 94
00:43:28 Granville tower and we are in flat 94 maybe you know about it already
00:43:32 do you remember making that call yes my next question is what prompted you to make that call at that point we honest
00:43:43 make that call at that point we honest it was ETOP prompted me to make that call in fact I was saying to her look they are here already why are we fawning on them let's just pray in our flat and she was saying yes but still you need to
00:43:55 she was saying yes but still you need to make the phone call and what did you have to achieve by making that call
00:44:09 really I mean we we wanted them to come and help us to cut to God to come out which they did yes thankfully they did okay
00:44:21 and I think if you look a little bit lower down the foot that page the second page of this transcript you say it wait says caller okay okay please come to
00:44:32 says caller okay okay please come to save us
00:44:32 save us and then you describe which floor and flat you're in same does that help with the purpose of the call that you're now
00:44:45 the purpose of the call that you're now decided that you wanted them to come up to say yes yes yes and if you go to the next page on page three the operator
00:44:58 next page on page three the operator says about a quarter of the way down to adults okay and have you put some tiles down to stop the smoke coming in call it mm have you put some tiles against the doors and windows to stop smoke coming
00:45:10 doors and windows to stop smoke coming in and then the caller says for the smoke not to come in yeah put them at the bottom of the door okay and I think you'd already done that yes did you do it do you did you did you
00:45:23 yes did you do it do you did you did you do it again did you do more of the same or did you think you've done enough maybe yeah and then the call ends before it ends two-thirds of the way down page
00:45:34 it ends two-thirds of the way down page three the operator says anywhere else you think the smoke might come in I put them there and what I'm going to do is gonna tell our command unit on the radio what flat you're in and they'll come and check you okay did did that have any
00:45:49 check you okay did did that have any influence on what you did next that advice yeah he said you know we'll check you out and we've fed some hot we
00:46:01 you out and we've fed some hot we thought they would come any minute now but we continue to praying still you know yes at this point can you when you
00:46:13 know yes at this point can you when you make this call this is 224 do you remember what the smoke conditions were like in the flat could you see could you see row
00:46:25 could you see row Ethiopia yes yes could see each other yes do you remember where you were in the flat when you made this call yes I
00:46:38 the flat when you made this call yes I was near the television so it needs a TV I don't know what's I wasn't yeah the first time I was just standing at one
00:46:51 first time I was just standing at one place I think were you in the living room yeah you're in the living room could you see from one end of the living room to the next yes yes you could and
00:47:02 room to the next yes yes you could and could you see where the smoke was coming from at that stage yes go through the door through the living room door
00:47:14 door through the living room door through the living room door yeah but from the front door coming through the corridor and just filling the room now you know like come into the living room I see so it was coming from the length from the lobby rather than from
00:47:26 length from the lobby rather than from outside the building and did the smoke smell of anything in particular at that stage it's just chemical was it the same smell that you'd gone out of the lot
00:47:37 smell that you'd gone out of the lot even stronger stronger
00:47:47 and did this make have any particular physical effect on you at that stage then we started coughing I do not want to stage and we started coughing they don't we were coughing both of us were coughing right and after the call what
00:48:02 coughing right and after the call what did you expect would happen next we thought somebody would come in in minutes but then I was also thinking how come because it was difficult to see and
00:48:13 come because it was difficult to see and we knew it was that flat was not accessible and who'd take that risk to come to say I was thinking and then our saying God will send somebody you know
00:48:25 saying God will send somebody you know my mistake now you make a second call to 999 at 242 and if I can just ask you to
00:48:37 999 at 242 and if I can just ask you to look at paragraph 20 of your statement on page 4 you say no firefighters were
00:48:48 on page 4 you say no firefighters were coming and so I called 999 again the second time I failed 9 9 9 it was a 240 a.m. I did not know what to do and but
00:49:01 a.m. I did not know what to do and but no question is did you met what prompted you to make that call this product we were desperate at our stage because we're coughing just getting hot and the floor was black completely no doctor so
00:49:14 floor was black completely no doctor so we were making me the last attempt to get somebody but behind all in my heart I was saying who would come at that stage well how would somebody pay that
00:49:26 stage well how would somebody pay that price to come into that place you know I just I was desperate but on in the meantime I was believing God you know that's he would send somebody yes and
00:49:37 that's he would send somebody yes and did you did you call on that second occasion eighty minutes later because no firefighter had yet come to the flash now can I ask you please to be shown the
00:49:48 now can I ask you please to be shown the transcript of that call which is lfb 683 683
00:50:02 and again let's let me see the time of that call can be found in the group of numbers second from the right in that long line of numbers Oh 240 240 and do
00:50:19 long line of numbers Oh 240 240 and do you remember where you were when you made that call that second call I think as the same place but this time I was moving around because he was giving his
00:50:33 moving around because he was giving his advice to leave I knew he didn't realize how bad it was and I was like in panic every other stage you were speaking to a
00:50:46 every other stage you were speaking to a man I spoke to a man yeah with a distinctive voice okay and the bottom of page two you see you say this is a 2/3
00:51:08 page two you see you say this is a 2/3 of the way down the page fire fire and the operator says yeah is there smoke coming into the flat and you say yeah it's coming right have you the doors covered sorry over the page have you all the doors and windows closed
00:51:20 the doors and windows closed what where was the smoke coming from at that point so we're now at 242 where was the smoke coming in it must be coming from everywhere because just think now very very thick so it was coming from
00:51:32 very very thick so it was coming from everywhere maybe it was coming from everywhere you know because that's the other stage it was like chaotic right did was the smoke at this point thicker
00:51:44 did was the smoke at this point thicker than the time when you made your first call okay now can I just ask you to look at page 8 of the transcript
00:52:04 this is after you've been told that you had to leave you say at the bottom of the page you're he says dat the bottom
00:52:16 the page you're he says dat the bottom of the page get into the stairwell and make your way down okay you see where he says that there's the red dot next to it and then you say yeah I can't see and
00:52:27 and then you say yeah I can't see and several inaudible words we went two times to go out we can't even see it now my question is about the two times that you refer to there we know about your first attempt to go into the lobby after
00:52:39 first attempt to go into the lobby after you woke up when you and ethiopia tried to leave when was the second attempt to go out i think it was after the first call you know when he said leave you
00:52:51 call you know when he said leave you know we tried again I think do you remember making that attempt second time we did we must stuff because like we
00:53:04 we did we must stuff because like we were getting desperate more and more desperate we knew we couldn't but still and were the conditions in the lobby when you went out try to go out the
00:53:15 when you went out try to go out the second time if you can remember it at all well they're the same or different from the fourth it's just because we're desperate we try it again because we put
00:53:26 desperate we try it again because we put up left at the first instance when we knew then if you go back in the transcript to page 5 at the top of the
00:53:38 transcript to page 5 at the top of the page the operator says yeah I'm going to tell you you have to leave okay and you say okay thank you
00:53:49 say okay thank you right so you need to get a towel cover it with water okay please stay on the family while you do it and then over the page he repeatedly says to you we need
00:54:01 page he repeatedly says to you we need you to leave and then again on page 7 as well and repeat and repeatedly
00:54:09 and then if you come to page 12 of the transcript a third of the way down the operator says if you don't do what I
00:54:21 operator says if you don't do what I tell you you're going to die in that flat okay I know it's really harsh but that's the truth right you need to cover your face with the wet towel and then there's some over speaking go out of
00:54:32 there's some over speaking go out of your flat turn left and get to the stairwell and you say I can only try sir okay
00:54:37 okay and he says right you have to do it okay and then are you doing it now what impact did the operators advice
00:54:48 what impact did the operators advice have on you we realized it was like I
00:54:59 have on you we realized it was like I mean we realized we were about to die but when he said that he just confirmed what we knew so then we just started getting ready to die and one of the
00:55:12 getting ready to die and one of the things we did was we said you know God forgive us for our sins and then we started praising God for the life we had in the past I mean just I mean he just
00:55:23 in the past I mean just I mean he just confirmed really what we thought was going to happen so I started thanking God for the good life we have
00:55:35 can I just ask you them to get back to your statement and look please at the bottom of page four paragraph 20 you say
00:55:50 bottom of page four paragraph 20 you say I listened and and told Ethiopia we should leave while he continued to speak to us on the phone while on the phone to
00:56:01 to us on the phone while on the phone to him we tried to leave the flat and open the door again as we did this it was terrifying the smoke was so dark and made his cough on the second time we opened the door it was even worse than before it was just not possible to walk
00:56:14 before it was just not possible to walk through the smoke or know where we were going we had to come back inside and shut the door I lost contact with the nine nine nine call and in my rush to get back in the phone was cut off so
00:56:26 just say where I'm we're clear mister Missy you're on the phone to the operator while trying to leave is that is that what happened yeah I told
00:56:37 is that what happened yeah I told remember that part but we must have because he insisted you see he said you know it's either dying or you know so that's it's like I'm not not all these
00:56:53 that's it's like I'm not not all these things and we just we wanted to leave again we knew we couldn't then just when you do when you don't know what to do you know do you remember how far you got
00:57:12 you know do you remember how far you got into the lobby the landing but then we didn't got to get to the lobby not at all
00:57:17 all we didn't get to the lobby know where we could we couldn't leave the flat itself but maybe through the corridor I meant maybe you know when I said lobby I mean you're at the landing outside your phone no no no no
00:57:29 no no no no there was no way right see after the call which we've just looked at finishes you come back into your flat did you
00:57:40 you come back into your flat did you shut the door again maybe I meant to the living room come back to the living room not to the flat because we never live the flats spicy so you didn't leave the flat wall okay so
00:57:55 you didn't leave the flat wall okay so can I just be clear then when you say a paragraph 20 who the foot of page 4 while on the phone to him we tried to leave the flat and open the door again
00:58:06 leave the flat and open the door again which door are you talking about there [Music]
00:58:11 [Music] it must be the throne maybe we opened the font job maybe because what I know is at that stage everything was a dead
00:58:23 is at that stage everything was a dead end
00:58:24 end everything and we knew we were about to die but we must have I must have done it could be worse relatively calm we were
00:58:35 could be worse relatively calm we were kind relatively and considering the situation and we must have done different things which I don't exactly recall as you can imagine but what we knew was we were going to that is for
00:58:48 knew was we were going to that is for sure for me right after this call do you remember whether there was any
00:59:00 do you remember whether there was any fire in the flat at that's that by that stage
00:59:07 now moving on in your statement if I count a paragraph 22 on page 5 you say
00:59:18 you say after the second 999 call I gave up nobody was coming and we tried to leave the floor was completely black now and we were simply waiting for it to
00:59:29 and we were simply waiting for it to catch fire the heat was starting to get to Ethiopia's feet she could feel it because she was wearing thin shoes was
00:59:43 because she was wearing thin shoes was that after you came back into the flat or after you tried to leave during or after that cause we never I never left the flat but maybe I meant but living room and it's what we were going around
00:59:56 room and it's what we were going around at that stage we were walking to the living room to the corridor to the front we just were like looking at the floor and how in a black it was and we were
01:00:07 and how in a black it was and we were like moving around and the heat started coming to her earlier than that really at an earlier stage but it was getting worse and worse it was telling me that
01:00:21 worse and worse it was telling me that the temperature matters what was the floor and your flat made of wood and when you say the floor was black was it black with charcoal yeah
01:00:34 black was it black with charcoal yeah was it actually going the address it was would who would awkward but it just changes charcoal color
01:00:44 did you know I didn't know whether the fire was coming to come down I don't know but it was like blood all right and you say in your statement that
01:00:55 and you say in your statement that Ethiopia could feel it because she was wearing thin shoes so the floor was hot was it did you feel yourself yes yes no my shoes but the temperate the whole the
01:01:06 my shoes but the temperate the whole the room time I was feeling the whole their own temperature was really really hot now right now it was not particularly my feet but temperature is very very poor can you tell us how heart but comparison
01:01:18 can you tell us how heart but comparison very very hot I've never experienced ok
01:01:27 since you made your statement after you made your statement never you've been provided with to further 999 call transcripts there's a third call that
01:01:38 transcripts there's a third call that you made at 258 and 44 seconds and that's NFB 680 and there's a fourth call which is at 305 and that's inq 281 I
01:01:50 which is at 305 and that's inq 281 I just want to look at your third call which is lfb 680 if we can just have that up please
01:02:10 you can see mr. Missy that again like the other calls we looked at before in the long line of numbers at the top of the page there there's a group of numbers towards the right Oh 258 44 which shows at the time shows the time
01:02:23 which shows at the time shows the time of the call and we start on the first page of that fire-brigade hello hello hello I'm ringing from flat 94 you're ringing from flat 94 inaudible right
01:02:34 ringing from flat 94 inaudible right here in Granville tower yeah and then over the top of page 2 the operators is right you need to listen to me carefully okay you need to get as many towels on tea towels anything you can find cover
01:02:45 tea towels anything you can find cover them with water okay okay okay cover your face and get to the stairwell okay okay right you have to do that that is your only option okay hmm just important want to do it operator listen carefully okay your only
01:02:57 operator listen carefully okay your only chance of surviving this fire is to cover your face with a wet towel and get to the stairwell and make your way downstairs okay caller we can't we can't do so we can't go out even in the flat
01:03:09 do so we can't go out even in the flat now the smoke is coming in the flap you can't even see now anymore listen this is your only chance it's the only way you say okay sir okay god bless you god bless you now that's a I've read most of
01:03:21 bless you now that's a I've read most of that to you because it's a short call do you remember what you did in response to that advice you know it's just I thought
01:03:33 that advice you know it's just I thought I made only two phone calls and it your baby calls we made more phone calls I only remember the talks I told them but I remember I do not want to say it
01:03:45 I remember I do not want to say it should be going to the bathroom wet in the towel and bringing it for us because he advised us to do that I remember that but I do not want to stage the phone calls I only remember to be
01:03:58 the phone calls I only remember to be honest really okay what mr. Missy we've been going for about 50 minutes now and I wonder mr. chairman weapons and the presenters are great yes
01:04:10 presenters are great yes it is well but maybe you would like to have a short break oh yes of course well we'll stop then for give me just over ten minutes I'm going to ask you not to talk to anyone about your
01:04:21 not to talk to anyone about your evidence while you're out of the room and we'll resume at five past eleven so if you'd like to get with the usher now she'll look after you right thank you
01:04:45 right five possibilities
01:14:51 you
01:18:42 yes Oh John's mr. Missy to come back in please
01:19:02 alright are you happy to carry on yes thank you yes mr. Vallot mr. whizzy thank you very much for coming back to us
01:19:12 us can I turn then to your description of the firefighters arriving at about 3 a.m. as you say in your statement and
01:19:23 a.m. as you say in your statement and take you please to paragraph 24 of your statement on page 5 you say there at around 3 p.m. a firefighter came to our
01:19:35 around 3 p.m. a firefighter came to our door first of all should that be a.m. yeah yeah yeah how do you remember that it was about 3 a.m. I think when we we
01:19:54 it was about 3 a.m. I think when we we left the place we must have looked at out oh we must have checked after we came out we must have checked what time
01:20:05 came out we must have checked what time we came out I think and that's why I see so this is you later on when you did yours say yeah looking back on it and
01:20:16 yours say yeah looking back on it and we'll remember yeah okay now that that's tried this approach and now you don't
01:20:30 tried this approach and now you don't remember your third 999 call but how long after the last call you remember do you think the firefighters arrived it
01:20:42 you think the firefighters arrived it could be 10 minute 10 minutes about 10 minutes
01:20:50 minutes what were you doing when the firefighters arrived at your door when there are other door I remember that instant we'll just like
01:21:04 I remember that instant we'll just like waiting for the flood to catch fire and we were praising God again in the game for his goodness we say we weren't looking back at our
01:21:16 we say we weren't looking back at our lives and we said you know we were praising God we were in we were praising God a lot on that stage in the living room we're in the living room living
01:21:27 room we're in the living room living room now there's one more 999 call which was made at oh three oh five twenty
01:21:39 was made at oh three oh five twenty seven and that's inq two eight one if I can just ask you to be shown that please
01:21:48 now this is a transcript of an emergency call received by the police the MPS and associated calls time 203 o 527 if you
01:21:59 associated calls time 203 o 527 if you if you see that and it I'll just read a little bit of it to you the police operator who's a male says police
01:22:12 operator who's a male says police emergency can I help you there's background noise and then operator two female hi its Porter down connecting mobile number and then you can see some of that mobile number there the last
01:22:24 of that mobile number there the last four digits of got three digits of four four nine
01:22:26 four nine there's been no request but it something to me something upset in the background there police operator no problem Porter down thank you can I just take their service provider please yes it's who
01:22:38 service provider please yes it's who sorry Oh - I see that great thank you hello caller this is the police can you hear me and then the caller says Jesus Jesus and then female caller a little bit lower down
01:22:49 female caller a little bit lower down Jesus Jesus and then operator where are you female caller Jesus where a caller where are you calm down where are you and then a little bit lower down do you
01:23:00 and then a little bit lower down do you see it's a female caller assist Jesus Jesus Jesus and then caller can you hear me where I email call of Jesus and it goes on a little bit like that for over the page
01:23:14 little bit like that for over the page and then a third of the way down over the page female caller Jesus Jesus and then female caller I'm here sir god bless you
01:23:24 bless you - Monsieur you alright yeah no I'm fine it's just you know this is just the power of course yeah but if you need a
01:23:35 power of course yeah but if you need a little pause it is - yes yeah take a take a pause there's some water on the desk you need something
01:23:57 all right yeah and it's difficult to Britain to bring these back my question having shown you that is do you remember making this call at all honest I don't
01:24:11 making this call at all honest I don't remember this appalled by this court but
01:24:18 you know we weren't like complete like we knew you know we knew it at the end and I I wasn't frightened of death in
01:24:31 and I I wasn't frightened of death in the past but it was it I was face to face with death and we were face to face and about the stage he just didn't I didn't know if this is like my night I I called Jesus every time in my life every
01:24:43 called Jesus every time in my life every time every minute I call him and this was like just coming naturally I wasn't thinking I wasn't justices okay just
01:24:57 thinking I wasn't justices okay just take you to your statement let me take our time in estate or go to our state good your statement and turn to page six and paragraph 28 now this is the second
01:25:10 and paragraph 28 now this is the second paragraph in the section of your statement I was wait for it to come up on to the monitor for you this is the second paragraph in the section of your statement underneath the heading leaving via the stairs and you explain in
01:25:25 via the stairs and you explain in paragraph 27 going into the stairs and we'll look at that in just a moment in a bit more detail but on this I just want to show you paragraph 28 you say as we
01:25:36 to show you paragraph 28 you say as we were walking I was feeling very scared the smoke was very thick and it was dark and I was shouting Jesus Jesus just pausing there I remember that clearly I
01:25:48 pausing there I remember that clearly I remember because now I knew what we will come we were coming out and I was calling Jesus like intentionally and knowingly and that time it was dark it
01:26:00 knowingly and that time it was dark it was frightening still frightening but other statistics there was a little bit of Hope and I remember instant it found the fire man said please be quiet because he felt
01:26:11 please be quiet because he felt distracted I think and and I was I continued shouting the other one I don't remember you don't remember the other just just look just showing you the call
01:26:22 just just look just showing you the call and showing you this do you think you remember saying that in the states remember the other one I don't know do you remember having your telephone your mobile with you when you were in
01:26:34 your mobile with you when you were in the stairs
01:26:37 no no what happened was I had more my mobile and I put it in my pack my bag was on the on the on the table and when
01:26:49 was on the on the on the table and when the firemen came it should be and I were like living and it should be said pick up your bag and I picked up my back because she knew the mobile was she saw
01:27:00 because she knew the mobile was she saw me putting the mobile in the back so but I wasn't talking oh I wasn't holding it was in the back I think the mobile was in the back and as we were going I mean
01:27:13 in the back and as we were going I mean you know they were like you know sure they were like also confused how to take us down it is not easy so they were trying this way in fact
01:27:25 so they were trying this way in fact what they said when they arrived was we would we will try to take you out they said we're not sure but we will try to save you you know so there's like
01:27:37 save you you know so there's like leading us sometimes from the front from the back and they were pushing us along yeah yes I just tried to get out just trying to get a sense of whether the
01:27:48 trying to get a sense of whether the what you were saying on the transcript of the cold Jesus Jesus was when you were in the stairs or before you left your flat no on the phone I might have said it's
01:28:01 on the phone I might have said it's because I didn't my I don't remember making that phone call I don't remember the last phone call the last word I remember from the board room was when he said you know if you don't go out now
01:28:13 said you know if you don't go out now you
01:28:14 you would divert I remember that that part and I thought that was the last call but I might have made I mean I have made more cause then I don't remember that I
01:28:25 more cause then I don't remember that I mean we put this possibility to you is it possible that your phone made up as it were a pocket call from your bag and then recorded what was being said okay
01:28:40 then recorded what was being said okay now coming back to the arrival of the firefighters into your flat - do you remember whether they came inside the flat when they arrived they didn't come
01:28:51 flat when they arrived they didn't come inside
01:28:52 inside they were other drawn did they stay at the door you know they just okay I don't think they came to do do you remember
01:29:03 think they came to do do you remember whether a firefighter took you into the bathroom in order to help you put wet towel on your head or around your head okay did you have a conversation with the firefighters at that point I don't
01:29:14 the firefighters at that point I don't remember even that one the one this when they said there will try to be remembered it's my dad it's not me I remembered enough right did they say
01:29:25 remembered enough right did they say anything to you that you remember
01:29:28 hmm did you say to anything to them that you remember yeah then I asked just shouting Jesus I see
01:29:43 when you went out of the flat do you remember whether the door was closed behind you that door needed looking I
01:29:59 behind you that door needed looking I think it was not a self closing door I don't know I don't know for some reason I thought I needed the keys isn't
01:30:12 I thought I needed the keys isn't because I drove to my key it's again you know like a confusion of knowing what was happening and then hoping to come back and when I dropped my key I was
01:30:24 back and when I dropped my key I was like saying oh I dropped my king you know so it's like you say that in paragraph 20 I did say I dropped my key
01:30:36 paragraph 20 I did say I dropped my key so my question is do you remember whether the door when you left the phone
01:30:44 when you came out of the flat with Ethiopia were you first or was she and you were she was she was best do you remember what the conditions were like in the in the landing outside your flat
01:30:56 in the in the landing outside your flat at that stage everything was with Rhoni impossible
01:31:03 nothing we could see did this make smell smell what was the smell bad came across
01:31:15 smell what was the smell bad came across same as sounds before that's just breathing was the problem right now let's just look at that a bit more when you if you gave please to paragraph 26 of your statement so going back to page
01:31:27 of your statement so going back to page 5 you say at the foot of that page paragraph 26 the smoke was really bad as we came out of the flat and very hot I
01:31:39 we came out of the flat and very hot I don't remember it all but I think I had a towel at home I had there was a there was very strong smoke that smelt of chemicals
01:31:51 was the smoke in the communal hallway the landing worse when you came out on to it then with the firefighter than it had been on the earlier occasions you'd opened the front door the same but in
01:32:08 opened the front door the same but in the flood of least I could see you know I could see inside the flood but on the outside I didn't see anything inside
01:32:19 outside I didn't see anything inside nothing until we got to the second floor of that and you say it was very hot as you came out of the flat was it hotter
01:32:31 you came out of the flat was it hotter than the flat I don't know it's about the same rate as you know and you go on to describe the smoke smelling of
01:32:43 to describe the smoke smelling of chemicals it was that the same chemical smell that you had smelt while you were in your flat just just smell of
01:32:56 in your flat just just smell of something but when you left your flat and went with the firefighters do you remember how you got to the stairwell
01:33:07 remember how you got to the stairwell door yeah the firefighter was like you know doing this this and he was trying
01:33:19 know doing this this and he was trying different ways of coming out and taking me sometimes he was you know next to me sometimes behind us like sometimes pushing it is there trying to find the
01:33:33 pushing it is there trying to find the way I think I he was just very difficult I don't know how he did it did he have a torch palmtops I had it's a light you mean maybe he had
01:33:45 a light you mean maybe he had all right but he was not able to see wanna see them what's not he because how I know is like he was like picking out this way and then he takes us back and then this way
01:33:56 then this way so he III didn't know he didn't he was not able to see what yes and then when you got to the stairs you when you got
01:34:13 you got to the stairs you when you got to the stairs you say there was thick smoke in the stairs how did the stairs smoke in the stairs compared with the smoke in the lobby the landing would be
01:34:26 smoke in the lobby the landing would be one of the same gonna be about the same
01:34:30 still dark still fake smoke still just dark just dumb what I remember clearly about the stairs is how dark the stairs were and did you
01:34:44 is how dark the stairs were and did you notice any anything about the temperature in the stairs when you went into them yeah it is hot but maybe it so what I mean the second thing was the
01:34:56 what I mean the second thing was the darkness by the stairs for me to be honest do you remember anything about the temperature
01:35:08 could be hot and also you know from inside I know that was hot there was hope so I was like I wasn't even maybe I wasn't paying attention to the heat this
01:35:19 wasn't paying attention to the heat this there was some hope you know of coming out of that yes and as you came down the stairs to the temperature change at all yes fine there's no money then
01:35:31 yes fine there's no money then downstairs did they come a point on your journey down the stairs when the temperature started to drop again I would say damn it was fine this is and
01:35:44 would say damn it was fine this is and also we were able to see the light and you know the temperature wasn't the problem I wouldn't even think about it because at what point do you remember first seeing light so quite close to
01:36:05 first seeing light so quite close to when on your journey down the stairs did you notice any doors from the stairwell
01:36:16 you notice any doors from the stairwell to other lobbies are open downstairs to mean on the ground floor no let me put it a different way as you were coming down the stairs did you notice whether any of the stairwell doors were open
01:36:32 and I what I didn't see I dunno it was dark
01:36:39 you didn't see any light coming from any of those doors
01:36:56 yes but Mr Missy I've come to the end of my questions that I wanted to ask you and I'm very grateful to you mr. chairman it might be appropriate if we just take a short break yes no just to make sure that I put
01:37:08 yes no just to make sure that I put everything I need to yes thank you well just let me see it it made me that on reflection mr. millet will find that he has a few more questions so we're going
01:37:19 has a few more questions so we're going to give him a tuna tea to think about that now we'll break until 25 to 12 again please don't talk to anyone now
01:37:30 again please don't talk to anyone now it's for evidence when they're out of the room and then when you come back we'll see if there are any more questions for you all right say if you'd like to give the usher and will you zoom at 25 to 12 thank you
01:37:54 right had given you a slightly longer than usual five minutes mr. millet but it works on the clock yes may thank you very much 25 to 12
01:38:56 you
01:50:58 you
01:51:09 you
01:52:04 well I mr. millet I imagine you found one or two questions Harold if they want - oh thank you
01:52:14 I feel regressing that
01:52:31 right mr. Messina mr. millet says he has one or two questions for me just say let's see how he gave me mr. missy thank you very much for coming back to me first of all when you left the flat do
01:52:43 first of all when you left the flat do you remember whether the flat itself was on fire yeah did you check the rooms to see whether it was on fire about two
01:52:54 see whether it was on fire about two days after yes I checked through you know from the streets checked if the flat was burned from outside done the day not on the night okay now when you
01:53:07 day not on the night okay now when you went down the stairs did you have a wet towel around your nose and mouth but I don't think you know that's another
01:53:18 don't think you know that's another thing you see I don't remember that detail because I remember having it something on me but I don't know if I put it on if I left it or I don't
01:53:29 put it on if I left it or I don't remember I think maybe I have I have then maybe maybe I covered and I it could be different things yeah okay
01:53:45 now at paragraph 29 of your statement on page 6 if you can just be shown that you say we came out at 3:11 a.m. the
01:54:00 say we came out at 3:11 a.m. the firefighters were in line standing outside of the tower they were standing waiting to go in the two firefighters who came for us saved our lives I did not meet those two firefighters afterwards for us they were angels do
01:54:14 afterwards for us they were angels do you want to add anything there to your expression of gratitude okay make it a little bit emotional about this case our
01:54:29 little bit emotional about this case our experience is unique and it's unprecedented and especially for me I've had challenges in my life but this is
01:54:40 had challenges in my life but this is unique in its form no death was there right now in front of me it would be who was that assist she's
01:54:52 me it would be who was that assist she's a sister in issues not just a friend she was with me on that night she came because of me and we were both to die
01:55:05 because of me and we were both to die and she was going to live a son who who she was very very she's very close to behind and she lost her husband about
01:55:22 behind and she lost her husband about four years ago and I mean I was like in tears all the time thinking about you know her I mean I was thinking about myself and also her being in that tub in
01:55:34 myself and also her being in that tub in that situation and I mean in my with my faith you know death should not be feared but ours to be honest I was terrified I just I don't remember any
01:55:47 terrified I just I don't remember any situation I've been to that level and [Music]
01:55:53 [Music] the and also all along I was praying we were praying seriously we were reading the Bible but finally we gave up hope we
01:56:05 the Bible but finally we gave up hope we thought nobody would come one thing is they wouldn't be able to get to that place because we saw it what was his life and who would sacrifice no alive to
01:56:16 life and who would sacrifice no alive to come there and die with us you know so that is a hopeless situation and they arrived and they took us out by hand and
01:56:29 arrived and they took us out by hand and they for me they were sent by God and there were engines just what I'd say thank you and may God bless them and
01:56:40 thank you and may God bless them and their family their loved ones really you know I don't know what to say mr. mister thank you for that I'm sure that you will be thanked I have a final question and it's this in
01:56:53 I have a final question and it's this in addition to the witness statement that you provided and in addition to what you've told the Chairman this morning is there anything else about what you saw felt smelled on the night of the fire
01:57:07 felt smelled on the night of the fire itself that you would wish the Chairman to know I think I've said I've experienced talking about it and facing
01:57:18 experienced talking about it and facing the situations under the same you know I'm relaxed and I'm in a room here and I survived while in a lot of residents who
01:57:31 survived while in a lot of residents who we knew who were close to us didn't make it so now it's a I it's like boom for us it's a time of saying thank you ralina
01:57:44 it's a time of saying thank you ralina for me what I want to take from this is that this lesson will be you know like learnt properly and the mistakes mistakes which were made in the past
01:57:56 mistakes which were made in the past wouldn't be met again that's the most important part and and the other thing is nobody coming back you know things
01:58:09 is nobody coming back you know things just that happened the other thing is I am in a permanent a component place
01:58:23 am in a permanent a component place right now and I feel I've been supported to get this place and I would like to say thank you to everyone literally
01:58:34 say thank you to everyone literally everyone who supported me and European the other residents friends I personally
01:58:45 the other residents friends I personally would like to say thank you for helping me to get back my life and I would like to say thank you to the
01:58:58 I would like to say thank you to the people of this country who who contributed towards all this getting
01:59:10 contributed towards all this getting back life together in different ways I don't know what who to say I mean if I call you know Department if I say for example London Transport it just it's
01:59:22 example London Transport it just it's just a simple thing to say because there are so many and a lot of the government departments and the Prime Minister made a pledge as well and the RAL family and
01:59:35 a pledge as well and the RAL family and the British public the kind-hearted Bush public helped us to get back to where we are and I love this country I've always loved this country and thank you too you
01:59:51 loved this country and thank you too you know my pastor who is here accompany me and Shannon my counselor is here with me as well and I would like to say thank you for all the support I've received
02:00:02 you for all the support I've received literally that I don't want to mention this department this department if I say this Social Work about so it doesn't because there are so many people involved and all the faith communities
02:00:14 involved and all the faith communities involved and just I thank God for all this that's what I want to say I don't want to remember but much more the chemicals and things because doesn't
02:00:26 chemicals and things because doesn't help me helps me you know to remember the whole things I have received others almost diversity thank you very much and can I thank you very much for coming here today last ring our questions assisting us
02:00:39 last ring our questions assisting us with our investigations we really are very grateful to you so thank you yes mister Missy I'd like to add my end thanks to that you've obviously had a terrifying experience and we're very
02:00:50 terrifying experience and we're very grateful to you for being willing to come along and talk about I didn't explain what things were like on the night in question it's important for us to know what people experienced and what think what was going on inside
02:01:02 and what think what was going on inside the building at different times so your evidence will be very helpful to us and I want you to know that and that we're very grateful to you for coming and I'm sorry if it's been a difficult experience for you to do that
02:01:13 experience for you to do that but we are very grateful thank you all right thank you very much you'd like to go over the offer
02:01:36 nervous to it tell us chairman there are two further statements I would wish to read into the record you know the first of which is the witness statement of
02:01:50 of which is the witness statement of Ethiopia are safer which I shall read and there's quite a lot of this which is worthy of reading aloud into the record
02:02:01 worthy of reading aloud into the record yes and you've heard quite a bit already this morning from the last witness about it yes her statement is iws five zeros
02:02:16 it yes her statement is iws five zeros eight nine one it's dated the 8th of June 2018 and there's a statement of truth above the signature on page 18 of
02:02:27 truth above the signature on page 18 of that statement yes she originally lived in flat 195 on the 21st floor of Grenfell tower for some 20 years or so
02:02:41 Grenfell tower for some 20 years or so with her husband who died unfortunately in 2016 and with her son Gabriel who is now an adult and they moved away in 2014
02:02:56 now an adult and they moved away in 2014 as you've heard she's very good friends with the last witness an omission to misy who she calls a lamb and they had a study group about which you've heard can
02:03:08 study group about which you've heard can I pick it up at paragraph 13 on page three of the statement first of all she says I said goodnight to a lamb that
02:03:20 says I said goodnight to a lamb that around 20 to 30 she went into her bedroom and I lay on the sofa in the living room reading my book before I fell asleep I think it was around 11:00 p.m. when I fell asleep and then at
02:03:34 p.m. when I fell asleep and then at paragraph 14 she says I woke up suddenly in the middle of the night I didn't know what time it was when I woke up I could hear a lamb in the corridor saying yes I will pray I will pray I think this is
02:03:45 will pray I will pray I think this is what woke me up at the same time I heard a glass window break I could hear a lot of noise coming from outside it sounded like glass smashing outside and then at 19 she says over the
02:03:59 outside and then at 19 she says over the next page Alan went to the front door to the flat to leave and I was stood behind her when she opened the front door heavy thick black smoke suddenly entered the flat it came pouring in I froze I felt
02:04:13 flat it came pouring in I froze I felt hot smoke on my face it was pitch black in the communal landing I couldn't see anything or hear anyone in the landing I couldn't see a thing outside of the flat I was completely and utterly shocked I
02:04:26 I was completely and utterly shocked I just couldn't understand how this had happened I was terrified there were no fire alarms going off still this was the moment I realized how serious the fire was I thought to myself that we were
02:04:37 was I thought to myself that we were trapped and we wouldn't be able to get out and I'm quickly closed the front door to stop the smoke we looked at each other in horror I was speechless I didn't know what to say after a few
02:04:49 didn't know what to say after a few minutes I said to her I'm sorry I lamb we can't try and get out there is too much smoke we can't see anything if we can get help from the firefighters then we can get out but otherwise we can't leave I was absolutely petrified I had
02:05:02 leave I was absolutely petrified I had this sudden realization that we were both going to die I tried to stay calm but I couldn't and neither of us knew what to do I remember trying to think of ways that we could get out of the tower I thought about her holding onto me and
02:05:14 I thought about her holding onto me and walking down the stairwell but we would be walking down blindly because of the thickness of the smoke I decided that this was not a good idea as I thought we would just pass out from the smoke the
02:05:25 would just pass out from the smoke the smoke was so hot and thick I said to Alan we are not leaving we walk to the living room and shut the living room door this is because the living room was the furthest away from the front door
02:05:36 the furthest away from the front door and we wanted to get away from the smoke and that she describes praying and calling her son and picking it up at the bottom of page 6 paragraph 29 she says I
02:05:52 bottom of page 6 paragraph 29 she says I looked outside the window of the living room as I was on the phone to him I could see fire coming straight up the west side of the tower towards Alan's flat
02:06:00 flat the fire was below the flat I could see firefighters outside on the ground in my mind I believed that calling 999 was pointless because I didn't think they would be able to rescue us but I told my
02:06:12 would be able to rescue us but I told my friend that I would call them anyway and then at 30 she says I understand that the inquiry have disclosed to 999 calls which were made by Elham I understand
02:06:24 which were made by Elham I understand that they recorded as having been made at 202 24 and a 240 I recall that Alan made four phone calls to the emergency services and may be wrong about the number of calls which were made what
02:06:35 number of calls which were made what happened to us was so traumatic and this may have affected what I can remember all I can say is that I believe Alan may 4 999 calls in total and then mr.
02:06:46 4 999 calls in total and then mr. chairman from paragraphs 32 through all the way down to 45 she deals with the first second and third calls call she
02:07:00 first second and third calls call she deals with a paragraph 46 and I'll just read some of those paragraphs 32 she says I told Alan to call the emergency
02:07:11 says I told Alan to call the emergency services on nine nine even though I didn't believe that they could help us I'll and then looked outside the window and questioned why we needed to call them as the fire services were there and aware that there was a fire in the tower
02:07:22 aware that there was a fire in the tower she probably saw the firefighters at the bottom of the tower when she said this I insisted that she call anyway so alum used her phone to call 999 and paragraph
02:07:38 used her phone to call 999 and paragraph 37 at the top of page 8 she says
02:07:44 so I should pick it up at 36 in fact in the bottom of 7 she says my phone started ringing it was my friend who I'd spoken to before I answered the call and
02:07:55 spoken to before I answered the call and he asked me what the operator had said I told him that they had told us to get out of the flat he agreed with the advice and told me to get out I explained to him that there was too much smoke in the hallway so he couldn't get
02:08:06 smoke in the hallway so he couldn't get out he didn't know what to say he told me to call 999 again to ask them what to do I hung up the phone and said Alam can you phone them again she refused at first to call because she said that it
02:08:17 first to call because she said that it was pointless and that we were going to die I also believed that she was right but I insisted and that she called them and she did agree to call them again and then at paragraph 38 to 41 she deals
02:08:31 then at paragraph 38 to 41 she deals with the second call and she says at 39 there was now smoke coming into the living room from the hallway and inside the flat I looked over at the living room door which was closed and could see smoke was coming through from the gap
02:08:43 smoke was coming through from the gap underneath the door it was a light gray smoke that was starting to spread around the living room I could still see in the flat despite there being smoke it wasn't like the smoke I'd seen outside the
02:08:54 like the smoke I'd seen outside the front door of the flat I started praying again but at this point my lungs started to feel tight and felt like they were burning from the smoke and my eyes were watering I was coughing to the living
02:09:06 watering I was coughing to the living room window was closed the whole time so I don't think smoke was coming through from the window the kitchen window is open but I hadn't realised this until later on I didn't know at the time that the kitchen window was open I really
02:09:17 the kitchen window was open I really started to panic and I was crying out in fear the room was filling up with smoke and then a paragraphs 42 to 45 she deals with the third call mr. chairman and if
02:09:30 with the third call mr. chairman and if the paragraph at 43 she says I grabbed some clothes that were already in the living room wet them in the kitchen then put them under the door of the living room to try to block out any more smoke from entering at one point I was banging
02:09:43 from entering at one point I was banging on the living room window to try and get attention to where we were after the fire I remember watching a video of the fire and I saw footage of someone at the window who I believe was me but I can't remember where this video was from and
02:09:54 remember where this video was from and what news
02:09:55 what news showing it I was wearing a long-sleeve blue cardigan on the night I remember my friend phoned me again to find out if I'd called nain nain nain and what I was doing he told me to call them again to
02:10:07 doing he told me to call them again to ask them what to do next I was incredibly reluctant to do this but I told a lamb to call them one last time and then of paragraph 46 she says a line
02:10:21 and then of paragraph 46 she says a line called nine nine nine for the very last time again I heard a tell them that she was in flat what the flat 94 this was a very short conversation and I just heard to say okay thank you god bless you
02:10:33 to say okay thank you god bless you she hung up the phone as I've said this is my recollection and I may be wrong about the number of calls that Ellen made to the fire brigade she looked at me and told me that they said if we don't get out of the flat in the next
02:10:44 don't get out of the flat in the next two to three minutes then we are going to die when she said this I froze she grabbed my hand tightly and said if it is in God's will then there is nothing we can do about it we've had a good life we both said goodbye to each other I
02:10:56 we both said goodbye to each other I really believed that this was it this was the moment we were going to die we both sat down on the sofa I still had my scarf wrapped around my neck and my bag over my shoulder Allen still had the wet
02:11:08 over my shoulder Allen still had the wet towel over her face I had taken the wet towel I had around my face off and put it on the table as I sat on the sofa I could see the wooden brown floor turned black with smoke I can't say now whether
02:11:21 black with smoke I can't say now whether it was actually the floor which changed color and turned black or whether it was the black smoke on the floor which made it look black I was so scared so traumatized at the time that it's difficult to remember all I can say is
02:11:34 difficult to remember all I can say is that the floor which was brown was now black I had my shoes on but I could feel my feet were getting hot I think the floor was getting hot I was absolutely petrified I was so scared and
02:11:45 absolutely petrified I was so scared and wondered which part of the flat was going to catch fire first for a split second I thought about how he could escape I thought about jumping out of the tower I looked out of the closed window the ground floor was far too far
02:11:58 window the ground floor was far too far down to jump and the fire was coming up the tower I thought to myself that jumping out the tower would be certain death but then again staying in the flat would also be certain death I personally thought that there was no
02:12:09 I personally thought that there was no difference in dyeing on the safe hole jumping out of the window and dying outside I banged on the window with my fist just in case anyone could see us but I knew this wouldn't help I sat back down and I could just feel my throat
02:12:21 down and I could just feel my throat burning from the smoke it was difficult to the breathe it was difficult to breathe there was smoke all in the living room my eyes continue to burn and water and I was coughing from the smoke
02:12:32 water and I was coughing from the smoke I knew that this was the moment I was going to die and I'm shouted I can hear someone knocking I could hear a knocking noise - I quickly got up ran to the living room door opened it and looked
02:12:43 living room door opened it and looked into the hallway of the flat I shouted is anyone there no one answered but the knocking on the door carried on I opened the front door of the flat and standing outside the flat was a firefighter
02:12:54 outside the flat was a firefighter I couldn't believe someone had come to save us he was wearing what I would describe as a gas mask and he had a torchlight on his head as soon as I opened the door thick black
02:13:05 soon as I opened the door thick black smoke from the hallway poured into the flattened eye that I saw another firefighter standing behind him he asked me if I was alone I said no I'm with my sister he told me to go and get her we are going to try and save you my heart
02:13:18 are going to try and save you my heart was racing so fast he didn't enter the flat but waited in the hallway with the door open I ran into the living room and told Alam to come with me as there were firefighters she came with me to the
02:13:30 firefighters she came with me to the front door the same fire at fire for the same firefighter told us to hold on to him and to put towels around our faces he said he would try to get us out of the tower by the stairs and that we had
02:13:41 the tower by the stairs and that we had to hold on to him tightly although the firefighter had a gas mask on I could understand him very clearly I went back into the living room and I picked up the wet towel it was on the side of the table a lamb already had her
02:13:53 side of the table a lamb already had her towel over her mouth so she stayed by the front door I still had my bag over my shoulder and put the wet towel over my face I think that we had been trapped
02:14:04 my face I think that we had been trapped inside the flat for around two to three hours before we were rescued before I left the flat I remember thinking this is my last chance of making it out alive I put the wet towel over my face and
02:14:15 I put the wet towel over my face and held the firefighters hand tightly Alam was behind me with the other firefighter as we walked into the hallway I couldn't see anything it was pitch black and full of thick smoke I had now covered my
02:14:28 of thick smoke I had now covered my entire face with the towel I didn't know where the fire exit was because of the layout of the hallway seemed different since I'd lived there I remember it took
02:14:39 since I'd lived there I remember it took us a few minutes to find the fire exit door to the staircase the firefighters had torches but they couldn't see anything with them on either and that was because of the thickness of the smoke I remember bumping into a lot of
02:14:51 smoke I remember bumping into a lot of walls on this floor trying to find the doors to the stairwell the firefighter was feeling his way around and tried several doors before we found the door to the stairwell I was just praying to God that we would make it out alive I
02:15:02 God that we would make it out alive I was coughing uncontrollably and it was so hard to breathe once we found all the doors to the stairwell we started to walk down the stairs as fast as we could I remember feeling incredibly hot as I
02:15:14 I remember feeling incredibly hot as I was walking down the staircase it was hot like an oven the firefighter kept shouting out to his colleague to make sure that we were still all together alum and the other firefighter were behind us on the stairs
02:15:26 were behind us on the stairs suddenly the firefighter I was holding onto said we've lost your sister we need to go back upstairs to find them I was terrified I think we walked up one flight of stairs and he shouted out for his colleague at this point I quickly
02:15:38 his colleague at this point I quickly removed the towel from my face and could see Anam I'm not sure what floor this was the smoke must have been thinner here because I was able to see her the stairs were very narrow and the
02:15:49 stairs were very narrow and the firefighter I was with quickly moved me to one side to give way to another firefighter who was coming down the stairs because the firefighter was holding someone in his arms it looked like he was holding a child I will never
02:16:00 like he was holding a child I will never forget this image it was haunting to see I have a feeling that this might have been Isaac Paulus I did not know him before the fire but I have seen his photo since Allen and the other
02:16:14 photo since Allen and the other firefighter were back with us I put the towel over my face again held on to the firefighter tightly and continued to walk down the stairs as we were going downstairs I could see through the towel that the smoke was a little bit lighter
02:16:25 that the smoke was a little bit lighter I didn't talk the whole time we were walking down the stairs I didn't reply to the firefighter either if he said something I just kept praying and praying that we would get out of the tower safely it was difficult to breathe
02:16:38 tower safely it was difficult to breathe on the stairwell and it was hot the firefighter I was with kept calling out to his colleague to make sure that they were still behind us I couldn't hear any fire alarms going off in the building as I made my way
02:16:50 off in the building as I made my way down the stairs I could occasionally hear Alan shouting Jesus at one point I heard a shout I dropped my key the firefighter told him not to worry about that I could hear people screaming in
02:17:01 that I could hear people screaming in the stairwell but I didn't recognize the voices I assumed it was other residents trying to get out of the tower I was trying to block this out I don't know which floors I heard this from the firefighter I was holding on to it was
02:17:13 firefighter I was holding on to it was encouraging me to keep going we were walking down the stairs relatively quickly there was smoke throughout the stairwell and I remember seeing bits on the floor like wallets and clothes but I don't think they were large enough to
02:17:24 don't think they were large enough to obstruct the stairs I don't remember how long it took us to get down the stairs I just remember the firefighter I was with say we made it I could hear a lot more noise now I removed the wet towel from my face and I
02:17:37 removed the wet towel from my face and I saw that I had made it to the ground floor alive I couldn't believe it I was in a complete state of shock I turned to the firefighter and just kept holding him telling him that he had saved me and
02:17:48 him telling him that he had saved me and that he was my angel and then the paragraph 69 she says because of the falling debris we could not get out of the tower sister safety we needed to get
02:17:59 the tower sister safety we needed to get to the other side of the road but we couldn't because the debris was raining down suddenly four or five firefighters circled round me and covered me with shields to protect me I waited with the firefighters by the
02:18:11 I waited with the firefighters by the entrance waiting for the moment when the debris stopped the firefighters with me suddenly shouted go and we ran out of the tower and we ran across to the other side of the road I understand there is a
02:18:22 side of the road I understand there is a photograph taken from CCTV inside the tower which shows me leaving the tower at a 307 police showed me this photograph and I identify the person in it as me I think that we were trapped in
02:18:34 it as me I think that we were trapped in the flap 2 hours that would mean I woke up at around 1:00 a.m. I believe that Alan called the fire brigade for the last time not long before we were rescued by the firefighters
02:18:45 we were rescued by the firefighters after this I don't know how long it took me to get from the flat down the stairs mr. chairman that's all I could place to read from the statement thank you and it will stand like that all the others in
02:18:57 will stand like that all the others in its entirety as evidence in the record have all were taken to into consideration the second statement that I would wish to read to you this morning before I hand over to mr. Rawat is the
02:19:10 before I hand over to mr. Rawat is the statement of Ray Rojo that is I WS six zeros sixty-six it's dated the 24th of
02:19:23 zeros sixty-six it's dated the 24th of April 2018 and she lived a flat 91 on the 12th floor of grenfell Tower so the same floor as ulema shet de missy and
02:19:36 same floor as ulema shet de missy and ethiopia Asif al from whom you've just heard the statement of truth is on the first page in the middle of the page before the main statement starts and the
02:19:48 before the main statement starts and the signature page is at the very end at page 7 there are a number of paragraphs I would just wish to read she explains in paragraph 6 that before December 9
02:20:00 in paragraph 6 that before December 9 2016 she visited grenfell tower approximately three times to visit a relative who she calls uncle and that's her friend Farshid cafe Chirag II who
02:20:11 her friend Farshid cafe Chirag II who she came to know in 2012 she says that paragraph 12 but the tenant management organization had changed the front door to flatten 91 about a month before the
02:20:23 to flatten 91 about a month before the fire from a brand or into a white door the new door shut and locked automatically you had to lock the old one from the outside at 14 she says the
02:20:35 one from the outside at 14 she says the windows were just normal windows I didn't notice any problems with them she says a paragraph 18 that while she was staying with uncle she met Helen Deborah mescal and started staying with
02:20:47 Deborah mescal and started staying with her two to three times a week and she lived at flat 186 on the 21st floor and she's also provided a witness statement to the inquiry mr. chairman
02:20:58 statement to the inquiry mr. chairman and then at paragraphs 31 and following she describes her experiences on the night of the fire itself and if I can just pick that up at paragraph 31 and 32
02:21:13 just pick that up at paragraph 31 and 32 at 31 she says on the evening in question I was in Helens flat but uncle called me and asked me to go to his flat this was early on in the evening it was past 11 p.m. by the time I was able to
02:21:24 past 11 p.m. by the time I was able to go down to his flat everything was normal at that time I was trying to help him clean up mess in his kitchen because there was work going on in his flat they'd removed the old door in his kitchen to change it I was in his flat
02:21:35 kitchen to change it I was in his flat in the kitchen when we heard commotion downstairs we heard the fire department's car we looked out of the window this was past midnight I'm not sure of the time I think half past midnight to 12:45 when
02:21:48 think half past midnight to 12:45 when we heard the commotion downstairs I now know that the fire was reported at 54 minutes past midnight but this is how I remember it I saw the smoke first the smoke was rising past the window I was
02:21:59 smoke was rising past the window I was looking out of I was looking out of the kitchen window it was thick black smoke and then picking it up a paragraph 36 she says I felt something was wrong so I
02:22:11 she says I felt something was wrong so I looked out of the bedroom window and saw some people standing in front of the building near the Kensington leisure center I saw something like firecrackers in the window it was like fire balls that were spreading I cannot explain it
02:22:22 that were spreading I cannot explain it exactly I saw the firecrackers in the air it was spreading they were going up from what I could remember the colors of the fire were yellow bits of red and some blue and black smoke the bedroom
02:22:34 some blue and black smoke the bedroom window was open at this point I could smell burning and gas at the same time the smell smelt like burning plastic but a stronger smell was gas well I smelt that I went to the kitchen to check
02:22:45 that I went to the kitchen to check there was no gas leak or that uncle had left the cooker on he had a gas hob as far as I can remember I could hear sirens from fire cars at that point but no fire alarms smoke was not yet coming
02:22:57 no fire alarms smoke was not yet coming into the flat my instinct told me to leave I had two Mobile's at the time my Apple iPhone was charging so I left that but I grabbed my Lebar which I used to make international calls
02:23:08 which I used to make international calls to my family in the Philippines and had that with me when I left the flat there was no smoke in the flat at that point the bedroom window was left open I'm sure that was the only window which was
02:23:20 sure that was the only window which was open the front door shut behind me when I left the flat all of the other doors inside the flat were open when I came out of his flat I went to the lift there was a guy from the same floor he came
02:23:31 was a guy from the same floor he came out wearing just shorts saying what is happening I said there is the fire brigade here and there is a fire going on from a lower flat he went back into his flat I did not know what his name was at the time but I recently bumped
02:23:43 was at the time but I recently bumped into him in the street and we talked about meeting that time his name was Roy from flat 95 there was no smoke in the hallway I pressed the lift button I know this is wrong but I was panicking when
02:23:56 this is wrong but I was panicking when the lifts arrived there was a black guy in his 20s or 30s in it I went into the lift and the lift started to go up the other guy was just pressing buttons I remember thinking that if it went to the 21st floor I would bang on Helens door I
02:24:07 21st floor I would bang on Helens door I didn't have her number on the mobile I'd taken with me the lift went to the 18th floor and the doors opened I left the lift to check what was going on two
02:24:18 lift to check what was going on two ladies in the hallway opened the stairwell door and I could see thick smoke in the stairwell at that point I was scared and panicked and went straight back into the lift the two ladies got into the lift with us on this
02:24:30 ladies got into the lift with us on this floor my understanding of their actions was that they wanted to go down the stairs but came into the lift after seeing the smoke in the stairwell The Doors managed to close again on on the
02:24:41 Doors managed to close again on on the eighteenth floor and no smoke came into the lift at this point the lift started to go down again the lift stopped at the 12th floor but the lift doors did not open it then continued to go down all of
02:24:55 open it then continued to go down all of a sudden thick black smoke I'm sorry thick smoke came into the lift the door didn't open so I don't know where this may it came from it might have been from the tenth or ninth floor as it was after
02:25:08 the tenth or ninth floor as it was after the lift stopped at the 12th floor the lift was stopping at every floor and the smoke was very thick we could not see each other and I held my hand in front of my face I wouldn't have been able to
02:25:19 of my face I wouldn't have been able to I was really panicked at this stage the lift was full of smoke from the ground to the ceiling and I felt like I was trapped when the lift stopped at the ground floor it didn't open straightaway
02:25:30 ground floor it didn't open straightaway at that time I felt like the doors would never open the lift had been stopping at every floor and the doors hadn't opened I really panicked and begged that I was not ready to get to go bye go I meant
02:25:42 not ready to get to go bye go I meant died when the doors opened I was crawling coming out of the lift I wasn't standing when the Fix mate came in I went down to the ground as it made me feel dizzy and the lift doors opened
02:25:54 feel dizzy and the lift doors opened smoke spray everywhere he went everywhere from the lift it was black thick smoke it was just the smoke coming out of the lift there was no other smoke I didn't see anyone from the fire
02:26:05 I didn't see anyone from the fire brigade inside the building I've seen a CCTV still with a handwritten note of me leaving at oh one 2705 I think this time is accurate I
02:26:16 2705 I think this time is accurate I didn't hear a fire alarm at any point whilst in the building or uncle's floor or the 18th floor and mr. chairman that is all that replaced to read from his
02:26:27 is all that replaced to read from his rojos statement and like the others it will stand in its entirety as evidence the inquiry and be taking your consideration in full well thank you very much and as I've said in other
02:26:39 very much and as I've said in other cases the inquiry is very grateful to those who taken the time and trouble to make these statements and they will form part of the evidence which is taken into consideration yes yes thank you very much thank you at that point mr. chairman and at the
02:26:51 at that point mr. chairman and at the time came for a place to hand over to mr. Rawat straight away without further ado yes
02:27:05 yes mr. robot when you're really Thank
02:27:16 yes mr. robot when you're really Thank You mr. chairman what I posed to do now is to put into the record two statements from residents of flat 6 in Grand Falls how the first
02:27:27 of flat 6 in Grand Falls how the first statement is that of Joseph Kyle John the reference for the statement is iws 6 0 62 yes
02:27:46 if we go to the last page of that statement its page ten that's on the screen now we see that it's signed dated
02:27:58 screen now we see that it's signed dated the 13th of April 2018 and accompanied by a statement of truth if I give some
02:28:09 by a statement of truth if I give some context mr. chairman first mr. John and his then partner Leon Jackson LeBlanc moved into flat six on the second floor of grateful tower in early 2017 and miss
02:28:23 of grateful tower in early 2017 and miss Jackson's brother Kareem al-ansari moved in with them shortly afterwards the couple had a young child who in fact had chicken born the year before they
02:28:35 had chicken born the year before they were at home with their child on the night of the 13th of June 2017 mr. eller and sari was not at home and if I pick it up with mr. John's statement at page
02:28:50 it up with mr. John's statement at page three please and from paragraph 11 I was indoors with Leanne and our son they're both asleep and I was up watching TV I
02:29:02 both asleep and I was up watching TV I was watching a movie but I can't remember what it was I think it was just after 12 a.m. but I'm not sure about times I was just about to go to bed I was hearing a lot of noise on our floor
02:29:13 was hearing a lot of noise on our floor and outside the building I looked through the window in our sitting room to see what was going on like to see a fire engine outside I opened our front door to see what was happening I went
02:29:24 door to see what was happening I went out onto the landing and pushed open the door to the stairs where the noise was coming from there was a big computer monitor on the floor there was a firefighter kneeling down on the floor doing something on the monitor there
02:29:35 doing something on the monitor there were four or five firefighters on our floor they were watching what was on the monitor
02:29:39 monitor there was a hose coming out of the lift stretching along the floor of the lobby no one was holding it or using it it was just lying there I asked them what was going on one of the firefighters said
02:29:51 going on one of the firefighters said there's a minor fire in your block go back inside and wait for further instructions there was no smoke or fire at this point in our flat on the landing or in the stairwell I told them I have a young
02:30:03 stairwell I told them I have a young baby and a disabled person living with me what is the procedure for getting them out the firefighter replied go back and wait for further instructions I went back to the flat and woke up Leanne I
02:30:14 back to the flat and woke up Leanne I told her that there is a fire in that in the blog she started panicking she went into blind panic she just wanted to get out our first priority was and the names
02:30:26 out our first priority was and the names redacted that's a reference to the couple's son I said to her don't panic they've told us to stay where we are and they will come to get us I was trying to calm her down and reassure her which she was really panicked she wanted to leave
02:30:38 was really panicked she wanted to leave a flat straightaway I was telling her they were going to come and get us and we needed to wait for them it was a smoke alarm in our kitchen but it didn't go off while we were in the flat I didn't hear any alarms going off after
02:30:51 didn't hear any alarms going off after 20 to 30 minutes no one had come to get us and I started to smell smoke it smelled like plastic like burning tires I looked out of the window and I could see smoke and fire burning going up the
02:31:03 see smoke and fire burning going up the outside of the building there was a car at the bottom of the building I could see the reflection of fire in the windscreen so I could see the fire moving upwards there were red flames and there was a lot of dark black thick
02:31:15 there was a lot of dark black thick smoke I could hear the fire was shattering the glass of the windows and the flats above me people were screaming and people outside the building were calling out get out get out I started
02:31:26 calling out get out get out I started panicking I could see the people on the walkway who was shouting at us I don't remember any one in particular there were no firefighters or police on the walkway at this stage the people shouting were from the community we were
02:31:39 shouting were from the community we were still waiting and watching the fire growing the flexion of the glass I could see that the fire was completely out of control
02:31:45 control I decided that we couldn't wait any more we got ready to go I was in boxes and a vest no shoes on I put on a jacket and a pair of trousers and a pair of trainers
02:31:56 pair of trousers and a pair of trainers LeeAnn had some slippers on she was in the nightie I helped her to put a jacket on mr. John then says that he put a jacket on his son in the next paragraph he continues Leon
02:32:09 in the next paragraph he continues Leon called 999 she told them that she's in flat six on the second floor and that she needs help to get out she said to them what's going on it's been 20 to 30 minutes
02:32:18 minutes she was crying I asked her what did they say
02:32:21 say she said they told her hold on someone will be coming to get you she was panicking crying my son was crying now I thought about the window I pushed my
02:32:32 thought about the window I pushed my head out of the window and saw the flames on the side of the building I felt that the only way out now was the window
02:32:38 window I knew the window had opened wide enough for us to climb out I didn't know where the fire was I didn't want to risk going into the stairwell I knew that people would help me if we went outside the window because I could see them shouting
02:32:50 window because I could see them shouting to me so I decided to get out I didn't want to risk opening our front door I could smell smoke from inside the building and thought that there would be smoking the lobby in the stairs it was
02:33:01 smoking the lobby in the stairs it was just one flight down but I didn't want to take that chance with my son who was so young and so fragile we left everything lost everything we didn't take anything I said to Leon let's go I
02:33:14 take anything I said to Leon let's go I told her if you're with me let's go he continues in paragraph 17 on our floor we had access to Grenfell walk there was a passageway connecting the
02:33:25 there was a passageway connecting the tower to the wall but it was blocked by a big gate it's a black gate nearly twice my height and it goes the whole way across touching onto our short wall I knew it was always locked but I tried
02:33:36 I knew it was always locked but I tried it anyway some people tried it as well the gate is always locked to secure access to the tower otherwise you would be able to get right up to the window of our sitting room nice to hang washing out of the window the lock on the gate
02:33:48 out of the window the lock on the gate was very strong it was a big C lock the window opens outwards a small way I had to break the hinges to force it fully open I took my son and climbed out I told my partner I would come back for
02:34:01 told my partner I would come back for her I climbed over the gate and handed my son to a complete stranger I handed him to a Muslim lady who was wearing a headscarf she was with a man who I presumed was her son he was one of the
02:34:12 presumed was her son he was one of the people who helped me I swung names redacted but it's a reference to mr. John's son over the gate and her son reached out to take him and then his mum took him then I went back for Leon it
02:34:26 took him then I went back for Leon it was a lot of drama to get her out I climbed through the window with her I took her out to the passageway we couldn't pass through the gate because it was locked we had to go around the gate and I had to get help to bring her
02:34:37 gate and I had to get help to bring her over
02:34:38 over it was scary frightening I had to carry her out in my arms the scariest part was on the corner when we were trying to get her round the gate we were on the second floor so there was a big drop one wrong
02:34:51 floor so there was a big drop one wrong move and we would have fallen God was with us I climbed up on the gate I told her to go sideways on the wall there were two Muslim men who helped me to scooch her over the wall we kept moving
02:35:03 scooch her over the wall we kept moving over until we cleared the gate she was terrified frightened she had no belief that she could do it she was crying telling me she can't get up on the wall she can't climb she's in pain she held
02:35:16 she can't climb she's in pain she held on tightly to the gate and then we had to take our time and slowly scooch her over until we cleared the gate and there was people there to help us it was risky but it was our only option we got Leanne
02:35:27 but it was our only option we got Leanne out onto Grenville walk and then I was looking for my son the woman who took him was sat down with him I hugged her thanked her and she gave me back my son Leon was crying I told her to sit down
02:35:40 Leon was crying I told her to sit down it was deep we sat there and witnessed everything mr. Chairman I just want to read to further paragraphs from his statement which refer to what mr. John then saw once he was outside the tower
02:35:52 then saw once he was outside the tower just when if I go to paragraph 22 which is on page six he says there the fire had red flames and then later on I also saw blue flames like it was two different types of fire the smell of the
02:36:04 different types of fire the smell of the smoke was very terrible you could smell the plastic I've never smelled anything like that before the blaze was massive things were blowing up glass was breaking popping like if a glass gets
02:36:16 breaking popping like if a glass gets too hot it shatters you could see shards of glass falling down from the building it looked like the building was being eaten away on the outside it looked like a death trap no one was going to be able
02:36:27 a death trap no one was going to be able to survive on the upper floors the ones who did they are very very blessed if I move on to paragraph 24 before I finish reading from this statement I also saw a
02:36:39 reading from this statement I also saw a guy with a long sheet running down the window
02:36:41 window he was bawling he had a kid in a partner he wanted to come out down the sheets with his little girl on his back we were all shouting at him not to someone makes me was on the phone to the firefighters
02:36:52 me was on the phone to the firefighters and I think the firefighters are already inside the building they were able to tell the firefighters where this family was I don't remember what this person looked like but I believe it was someone who knew them we were shouting at them
02:37:03 who knew them we were shouting at them to put wet towels around their heads and to try to flood the flat that help was on its way his flat was just to the right of the walk on the same side of the walk I turned away because I didn't think they were going to be helped in
02:37:14 think they were going to be helped in time I saw this man later in my hotel and I was so surprised he was alive his name is Ola and he's now one of my best buddies
02:37:21 buddies I end with that statement but now I'd like to put into the record the statement of Leanne Mayer Jackson LeBlanc the reference for that is iws
02:37:32 LeBlanc the reference for that is iws five zeros one seven seven it's a 16 page statement and if you go to page 16 please
02:37:51 there is a statement of truth signed and dated 18th of May 2018 there are no exhibits accompanying and statement if I
02:38:02 exhibits accompanying and statement if I would like to just read it part of miss Jackson LeBlanc statement and that relates to her account of the events around the fire itself she gives a
02:38:16 around the fire itself she gives a similar account to mr. Jones in terms of learning of the fire and if we pick it up at paragraph 49 please in page 8 of
02:38:27 up at paragraph 49 please in page 8 of the statement in paragraph 49 she begins at around 1:00 a.m. I woke up and then
02:38:38 at around 1:00 a.m. I woke up and then she continues I could hear a sound but I was not entirely conscious of the sound as I was still asleep Joseph said to me eh you okay I said yeah what is that noise he said it's just a fire engine
02:38:50 noise he said it's just a fire engine outside I said what is going on he said there's a bit of smoke and in the next paragraph
02:38:57 paragraph miss Jackson LeBlanc continues around 10 minutes later Joseph came back into the room I opened my eyes and he said just making sure everything's okay I said yeah I'm fine what's going on he said
02:39:09 yeah I'm fine what's going on he said there is a fire they're just putting it out I spoke to the fireman he said go back inside it is under control so I came back inside I said okay and continued to lay there I thought to
02:39:20 continued to lay there I thought to myself it's fine the fireman said it is fine so it is safe in paragraph 53 miss Jackson LeBron says I could still hear the noise it sounded similar to Hoover
02:39:31 the noise it sounded similar to Hoover but not as loud I was not really aware of what was going on but I felt safe at first however I then started to feel uneasy in thought there is a fire but where is it I got up and wanted to find out more information
02:39:43 and wanted to find out more information I went into the living room where Joseph wasn't from the window I could see smoke I did not put my head out the window I just looked whilst the window stayed shut my living room has two windows one
02:39:54 shut my living room has two windows one which faces out the south side of the tower and one which faces out from the west side
02:40:00 west side I was looking out the window that faces the Southside smoke was thick the smoke was coming from the east side of the tower I could see the fire brigade was there so I just left it and thought it was safe
02:40:11 was safe I then went to the back bedroom which phases out the south of the tower but more towards the east side and then the living-room window does I turned the light off as I did not want people to be able to look into the property I looked
02:40:23 able to look into the property I looked outside the window to see a black cab downstairs in the window of the cab I could see the reflection of the flames on the tower some blonde continues in the next paragraph I then went back to
02:40:34 the next paragraph I then went back to Joseph and said that is a fire not smoke how can it be under control we continued to talk hoping no one was injured and that we it would get put out quickly that was the kind of conversation we
02:40:45 that was the kind of conversation we were having we were concerned that the firemen had said everything was ok but I could see flames reflected onto the cab window while we were talking Joseph opened the living room window that faces the west side we were interrupted by a
02:40:57 the west side we were interrupted by a bunch of screaming that started taking place and took our attention I said to Joseph why people screaming how can it be okay people are screaming I told Joseph to jump onto the landing of the
02:41:09 Joseph to jump onto the landing of the walkway to see what was going on she continues in paragraph 58 when he went out and saw it was going on he came back and said I think we need to make a move
02:41:20 and said I think we need to make a move I went and picked and the name is redacted but the name of the couple's son up I was panicking could not breathe properly statement continues I could
02:41:31 properly statement continues I could hear people screaming outside saying don't jump they're coming to get you and people are saying back we are going to jump the statement continues in paragraph 60 before leaving the house I
02:41:42 paragraph 60 before leaving the house I called my sister naturally from the house phone and I did not have my phone on me at the time I cannot remember exactly what time it was maybe around 1:30 a.m. I told Natalie there was a fire in the building and that we were
02:41:54 fire in the building and that we were safe and leaving now so she did not need to panic
02:41:57 to panic I cannot remember what her response was Joseph took and it's the name of the couple's son from me and put his coat on headed over to the South Side livingroom window
02:42:08 window he passed against a reference to the couple's son back to me and opened the window
02:42:13 window he then jumped on out the window onto the landing I held this reference to this couple Sun out the window to pass him to Joseph while this was happening people started to see us and came closer
02:42:25 people started to see us and came closer to help someone want to call go call someone else I'm assuming the caretaker to open the black gate that is on the landing outside my flat they were taking so long to come and I was getting scared
02:42:37 so long to come and I was getting scared I did not look up to see the fire I could not see smoke but I could smell it the smell was so strong it made me feel like it was really close a lady came and
02:42:48 like it was really close a lady came and asked if we want help and to look after it's the name of the couple son again redacted Joseph passed a couple son over the gate to the lady I did not know who
02:42:59 the gate to the lady I did not know who this lady was mr. bong Sun was not crying at this point he was just looking around at everything at this point more people came to help including Hernan
02:43:10 people came to help including Hernan cherubic and her husband in order for me to get over the fence I would have to climb onto a wall and climb around the gate
02:43:16 gate I started panic as this was not something I felt I could do I saw the drop from the wall to the ground which I later found out was 20 feet my legs were shaking Joseph got me onto the wall and
02:43:27 shaking Joseph got me onto the wall and I was sitting on there he helped me stand up whilst I held on to the gate he guided my foot onto the next part of the wall when I got to the part of the wall that passed Elias grabbed me and took me
02:43:38 that passed Elias grabbed me and took me off for Joseph then followed and that's where I was pause in reading that statement yes thank you Gemini have another statement
02:43:49 thank you Gemini have another statement to put into the record at this stage and that is the statement of Kareem el and sorry and it's a statement the reference for which is iws six zeros
02:44:01 for which is iws six zeros 88
02:44:10 and if we go please to the last page on page seven statement is company by statement of truth it's signed and it's dated the 10th of May 2013 18 as I
02:44:24 dated the 10th of May 2013 18 as I explained in Fleur Liam's 2l and sorry's the brother of miss Jackson the blonde he wasn't there on the night of the fire itself but he did once he learnt about
02:44:36 itself but he did once he learnt about it returned back to the tower and if I pick it up please at page 3 of the statement in paragraph 26 on 13th June
02:44:51 statement in paragraph 26 on 13th June 2016 I was working a shift I got a call from LeeAnn I'm not certain what time it was but I think it was around 1:30 a.m. she said the buildings on fire I asked
02:45:02 she said the buildings on fire I asked her if she was ok and told her that I was on my way she told me she was fine as she was outside when LeeAnn was called I was very worried about her and her and the the redaction is a reference
02:45:14 her and the the redaction is a reference to miss Jackson a blonde Sun as Leon is disabled and he's unable to walk I was thinking about how she would be able to get out
02:45:23 get out I always cycle home to him from work I started cycling faster and faster I saw a fire engine past me I got to the tower around 2 a.m. as it takes around
02:45:34 tower around 2 a.m. as it takes around 40 minutes to cycle from Shoreditch when I was driving towards the tower I could see the fire from Ladbroke Grove Notting Hill Tower looks like a giant candle forbidden it and the sky was bright
02:45:46 forbidden it and the sky was bright around the tower I could see a bit of smoke when I got to the area I parked my car to the west of the tower I started looking for Leon and Joseph I do not
02:45:57 looking for Leon and Joseph I do not remember if I call them or not shortly after arriving I found them when we stood near the tower facing the southwest side of the tower the fire completely covered the south side of the tower it was moving fast like it was
02:46:09 tower it was moving fast like it was running the fire was moving upwards and around the tower the speed at which we was going up was faster than the speed at which it was going around the fire was red and
02:46:20 was red and and also in between a blue purple color it was not just a straight red color like a normal fire is the smoke was thick and black I could feel the heat from the fire on me
02:46:32 from the fire on me I could smell burning plastic and smoke at one point I'm not sure what time it was but I know that the Sun was starting to rise it was around dusk I tried to go into the tower I saw a man with an axe
02:46:44 into the tower I saw a man with an axe he was not a firefighter and I did not know where he got the axe from he was going towards the tower from the landing by ground for a walk he managed to get into the tower through a window I was behind him as I wanted to go in with him
02:46:56 behind him as I wanted to go in with him however I stopped by a firefighter just as I climbed onto the window the firefighter told me do not go in I told him that someone had just gone in that I wanted to go into to help he responded again telling me not to go in I climbed
02:47:09 again telling me not to go in I climbed back down the window and back onto the outside landing and stood with LeAnn and Joseph I tried to find different ways of getting into the building but the police and firefighters kept stopping me from going in there's also riot police that
02:47:20 going in there's also riot police that blocked me from getting closer to the tower I told them that I know first aid and how to do CPR but they did not take any notice I felt very frightened and scared I could see people at their
02:47:31 scared I could see people at their windows now scared for them I could see people what looked like Christmas tree lights out of their windows and torch lights trying to signal to the firefighters I could hear screams and
02:47:42 firefighters I could hear screams and crying I saw a man around the 10th 15th floor was trying to climb out of his window with his bedsheets I felt angry the police and the fire brigade the police were pushing me away
02:47:54 police were pushing me away coming into the morning I'm not sure what time it was but it was getting brighter I had been walking around the area trying to find a way to get into the tower I eventually realized this was not going to work I ended up on the main
02:48:06 not going to work I ended up on the main road near to Latimer Road station I saw a medical van and told them that I'm a certified lifeguard and whether I could help the medic said it's okay we have it under control I noticed a big case of
02:48:18 under control I noticed a big case of water bottles next to the van so I took it and went back towards the entrance of the tower wherever when a firefighter would bring out a survivor an officer would taken to the medical vans whilst
02:48:30 would taken to the medical vans whilst they did this I handed out the bottled water most of the survivors took it but some did not want any water I was standing around two swimming pool lengths away from the tower maybe around 50 feet I was stood within the area that
02:48:42 50 feet I was stood within the area that had to be barricaded by the police I had tried to go through the barriers earlier in the night but been stopped by the police however when I was carrying the water no one tried to stop me from going past the barriers and that's where thank
02:48:56 past the barriers and that's where thank you mr. chairman one more statement that we can put into the record of this stage and that is the statement of mohamed ahmed the statement references iws 4
02:49:09 ahmed the statement references iws 4 zeros 1 1 1 3 we go to the eighth page
02:49:36 straighten carry the statement of truth it's signed in its day to the 3rd of October 2018 and accompanying it are four exhibits labeled ma one two four
02:49:47 four exhibits labeled ma one two four but the collective reference for those so that they can be put into the record these I WS four zeros one one five five if I could return back to the first page
02:49:58 if I could return back to the first page of the statement please in the statement mr. Ahmed explains that he lived in flat 102 on the 13th floor
02:50:10 he lived in flat 102 on the 13th floor of gradual tower his wife Rhonda ROC has already made a statement which would be corrected if I'm wrong but has been put into the record a couple were living a
02:50:22 into the record a couple were living a flat 182 with their two children at the time and if I just pick up before going to miss Talmud's account of the night
02:50:33 to miss Talmud's account of the night just two paragraphs from an earlier part of his statement and the first one is on page three of the statement paragraph 18 and this is in section where mr. Ahmed
02:50:46 and this is in section where mr. Ahmed is dealing with the refurbishment and he says I think they told me that firearms were going to be installed in the hallway I remember seeing them working on both sides of the lifts on something that was there before the refurbishment
02:50:57 that was there before the refurbishment I asked them what they were doing and the workmen told me it was to do with fire it was metal and inside the wall it looked like some sort of vent it was from the floor up to about three feet
02:51:08 from the floor up to about three feet and if we go to the the next page at paragraph 25 mr. Ahmed has this to say about his flat the door to flat 102 my
02:51:22 about his flat the door to flat 102 my flat door was not changed in the refurbishment it was a door that would not shut automatically and you had to pull it shut I think there was a fire alarm on the ceiling in the hallway directly outside the lift but I own have
02:51:33 directly outside the lift but I own have only ever heard the smoke alarm ringing in my flat if I turn now to the account of the fire and mr. Armas recollection
02:51:44 of the fire and mr. Armas recollection of events of that night it begins at paragraph 20 and he begins paragraph 28 by saying Tuesday 13th of June 2017 it was a
02:51:55 Tuesday 13th of June 2017 it was a normal night in Ramadan and he had broken fast with my brother and work colleagues at a restaurant and he then continues at the time of my police
02:52:06 continues at the time of my police statement I thought that I had got home at about 12:00 midnight I've now been that I have now though been shown as still from a CCTV camera from the downstairs lift lobby area that shows a
02:52:17 downstairs lift lobby area that shows a time of zero zero twenty-eight so it was slightly later than I had initially thought I took the lift up to my flat on the 13th floor the kids were asleep in
02:52:28 the 13th floor the kids were asleep in their room and my wife was with two female friends in the living room after I had been back home for about 20 to 30 minutes I heard a fire engine siren I looked out of the sitting-room window
02:52:41 looked out of the sitting-room window which looked to walk which looks towards the leisure center and saw a fire engine by the building which had come in from Grenfell road area about five minutes later I saw another fire engine it was
02:52:53 later I saw another fire engine it was lost and had gone past the entrance to town on the road where the rugby club was I then moved to paragraph 32 which is on page five armored continues I went
02:53:06 is on page five armored continues I went into the kitchen and got on the table to get higher to look down I did not open the window because it was locked for my kids safety when I looked out of the window I saw the trees below reflecting
02:53:18 window I saw the trees below reflecting the light from the building it was a light that was moving the trees should have been dark but I did not realize that the light was from a fire I didn't know what it was then someone banged on
02:53:30 know what it was then someone banged on the door really hard like somebody was scared my wife and friends said that we should not open the door were scared that someone was coming to attack us I looked through the spy hole in the door
02:53:42 looked through the spy hole in the door I could not see anyone I opened the door and smelled smoke it was a very strong smell I did not see any smoke or anybody in the lobby this name continues I went back into the
02:53:55 this name continues I went back into the flat and told everyone we had to leave and mr. Ahmed then describes how they he picked up one of his children and one of
02:54:08 picked up one of his children and one of their guests picked up the other and he continues my police witness say miss Jess that we all left together but in fact I went first with the children and one friend and my wife and her older friend stayed in the flat and came a
02:54:20 friend stayed in the flat and came a short while later before leaving my floor
02:54:23 floor I knocked on all my neighbor's doors to alert them but no one answered I'm not sure if I've seen a sign in the tower but I knew from general knowledge not to use the lift if there is a fire we
02:54:34 use the lift if there is a fire we therefore open the door on the left lobby area and went down the stairs I didn't see anyone else on the stairs and although the smell of smoke goes stronger as we went down I did not see any smoke until we reached the fourth
02:54:45 any smoke until we reached the fourth floor on the fourth floor I saw two or three firemen who were wearing masks one of them was at the door to the lift lobby area for that floor it looked like they were trying to unwind a hose they
02:54:58 they were trying to unwind a hose they were panicking and told us not to stand and just to go down we did not stay there for long a matter of seconds there was thick black smoke coming from the hallway into the stairs the smoke was very thick and
02:55:11 the stairs the smoke was very thick and had a strong taste like metal the smoke was only on that floor and we passed through it as we went down we continued down to the third floor where we had to change stairs the door out of the stairs
02:55:22 change stairs the door out of the stairs on the third floor was closed but we just pushed it open then we went down the second stairs the ground floor and out of the tower I've seen as still from the CCTV system at Granville Tower that
02:55:34 the CCTV system at Granville Tower that shows myself and my daughter at the bottom of the stairs and is timed at one 22:17 mr. chairman that's all I proposed to read from that sleeve and that is in
02:55:48 to read from that sleeve and that is in fact all the reading that we have for this morning yes well again I think is right I expressed my thanks to those who've made these statements and they will of course form part of all the evidence before the inquiry and will be
02:56:00 evidence before the inquiry and will be taken into account thank you so is that it for the morning it is when we have a witness scheduled for two o'clock right well in that case we'll break now and have a slightly
02:56:11 we'll break now and have a slightly longer break than usual and resume at two o'clock then