Bereaved, survivors, and residents (BSRs) witness statements are read into the record, including powerful testimonies from family members of Zainab Dean, Dennis Murphy, and others about their final communications with loved ones trapped in Grenfell Tower
00:00:15 yes mr. Rohit right mr. chairman may I now call Oh Lucien tell RB yes thank you
00:00:55 I swear by Almighty God I swear by Almighty God that the evidence the evidence I shall give shall be the truth shall be the truth the whole truth or truth
00:01:07 thank you very much mr. lovely sit down make yourself comfortable and before we start can I say that I know you were asked to be here to start it to apply
00:01:18 asked to be here to start it to apply and I'm sure you were here on time and I'm sorry we've kept you waiting but we over ran a bit this morning and they were running a little bit behind that's how I say thank you yes mr. Owen can you
00:01:31 how I say thank you yes mr. Owen can you give the inquiry your full name please my name is unaware Shawn Philippine Thank You mr. to lobby and first thing I say to you is thank you very much of coming to give evidence to us today my
00:01:45 coming to give evidence to us today my questions today are going to focus on the night of the fire and everyone here will know that that is difficult so if at any time you need a
00:01:56 difficult so if at any time you need a break please just tell me and we'll stop what I'm going to try and do I hope is keep my questions short and simple but if I do ask you a question that you
00:02:08 if I do ask you a question that you don't understand and please don't hesitate to stop me and tell me and I'll put the question in this different way that's why thank you the first thing we need to do is to put your statement to
00:02:22 need to do is to put your statement to this inquiry formally into the record so can we have please the first page of that statement which is iws five zeros eight five one just so that we can
00:02:33 eight five one just so that we can orientate ourselves mr. 2rb that's the first page of the statement that you've made for the inquiry you'll see that it I hope that's come up on screen that's on your desk if you need a paper copy at
00:02:47 on your desk if you need a paper copy at any time there'll be one in the bundle that's on the table in front of you
00:02:55 I just want to ask you I think there may be a couple of Corrections or clarifications we need to make to the state we go play please to paragraph 43
00:03:07 state we go play please to paragraph 43 which is on page 11
00:03:17 if we could expand paragraph 43 please
00:03:24 it begins at approximately the firefighters came to the door again now there seems to be something missing between approximately and the firefighters can you help us with that at all I don't know if you're talking
00:03:36 at all I don't know if you're talking about the time so can we clarify that same assay you you don't know what time you were referring to that yes that's
00:03:47 you were referring to that yes that's correct
00:03:49 can we then go to paragraph 54 which is on page 13
00:04:03 and can you see there that the the type version of the statement has missed some words so the first sentence begins the firefighters then came for thee do you
00:04:15 firefighters then came for thee do you know what what should follow after that the last time so just for the record this first sentence of paragraph 54 should read the firefighters then came for the last time yes we go to page 19
00:04:28 for the last time yes we go to page 19 then please
00:04:37 statement we can see at the bottom is dated the 20th of May 2018 and we can see that it's signed is that your signature and have you had an
00:04:49 signature and have you had an opportunity to go through the statement recently yes thank you and subject to the clarification and the correction that you've made are the contents of the
00:05:00 that you've made are the contents of the statement true to the best of my knowledge Oh mr. champ for the record there are no exhibits to accompany the state nor exclude you
00:05:11 can I start please mister sorry with just a little bit of background if I may and I'll take you back to page two of your statement and we just expand
00:05:26 your statement and we just expand paragraph four for us please
00:05:32 you give a little bit of background there and I won't read it out but is it right that in June 2017 Europe working
00:05:43 right that in June 2017 Europe working as a logistics manager in the construction industry no I wasn't a majestic for that time I was working either support I stopped a site in Stratford so a supervisor on site in
00:05:55 Stratford so a supervisor on site in Stratford yes and you had moved in with your partner Rosemarie who we heard from
00:06:06 your partner Rosemarie who we heard from yesterday haven't you yes and your daughter and you moved in you tell tell us in around 2000 of 15 you have been
00:06:17 us in around 2000 of 15 you have been still about like a few times like me bleep up in Italy at that time yeah and that was two flat one one three and the 14th floor of Grenville Tower wasn't it that's correct we have the whole page
00:06:31 that's correct we have the whole page please as I mentioned we we heard from from Rosemarie yesterday and I I mean no
00:06:42 from Rosemarie yesterday and I I mean no disrespect you if I say that I'll try and take things shortly my first question is is you set out in your statement here it's begins at paragraph five you discuss the the neighbors who
00:06:55 five you discuss the the neighbors who lived on the 14th floor yes how well did you know your neighbors I need Dennis Murphy as a guide uh there
00:07:08 I need Dennis Murphy as a guide uh there was a polite guard I just not lead that it was one of the first people I met on on that floor very polite guy every time I would see me always liked Heidi improv these others you know yeah that's the kind of relationship where it was we're not
00:07:19 relationship where it was we're not friends as such but we had like a richer respect to each other and you also mentioned in its the bottom designer Dean and her son
00:07:32 Dean and her son how how well did you know them and he signed up enough Nazi well I knew it
00:07:43 signed up enough Nazi well I knew it sign up I heard this way she was a lady that lived myself of a child so Johnny Liu a child my son came to my flat wasn't wise because this type of left
00:07:55 wasn't wise because this type of left the dog we've left it open and he came and I think designer battery lights and coming to our flat but I will say that means designer Venice was very close for the altercations we would have a chat
00:08:08 the altercations we would have a chat and yeah a son has been in my house twice and would you say it's a would a fair way of describing relations on the 14th floor is that you got on with your
00:08:19 14th floor is that you got on with your neighbors yes and you knew some of them to say hello to and a chat with this now we know the alt hajjali brothers lived in flat 1 1 2 had you come across them
00:08:32 in flat 1 1 2 had you come across them yeah everyone just used to let mind your business
00:08:37 business everyone was everyone's fine and we're just used to go to work a comeback and obviously if you meet your neighbors and lift or or in in the corridor you see a lots of them and yeah that's what does our relationship wasn't like close or
00:08:48 our relationship wasn't like close or nothing yeah as a family did you feel settled in flat 1 1 3 the set would but not safe to pick up your your the last
00:09:04 not safe to pick up your your the last part of your answer I want to ask you just a little bit about what you knew about fire safety in Grand Falls how it before the fire right yeah and what I want to do and it's mr. chairman an
00:09:17 want to do and it's mr. chairman an image we've we've seen a number of times now I just want to show you a fire notice so we're just going to see the notice itself are you happy that we look at that we have please be la for
00:09:31 at that we have please be la for zeroze24 1 6
00:09:44 if I just explain to you mr. to lobby what this image shows it's a notice that was cited between the lifts on the third floor so not your floor but but
00:09:57 floor so not your floor but but obviously you would have come back and forth to your home every day wouldn't you this and did you unless they weren't working did you usually try and use the lifts to get up to the they all flat
00:10:09 lifts to get up to the they all flat asserted again its if the lifts were working was that the usual way you you if the question we use the lift of the loose it wasn't working which happened quite a few times we're both loose wasn't working done in here we have to
00:10:20 wasn't working done in here we have to take the stairs yeah do you remember seeing a notice like that between the lifts on the ground floor their problem the ground floor but nowhere else so you say nowhere else does that mean that you
00:10:32 say nowhere else does that mean that you can't remember seeing a notice like that on your floor definitely not if you look at the top line it says there's a state policy for residents unless the fire is
00:10:46 policy for residents unless the fire is in or affecting your flat did the phrase stay put mean anything to you before June 2017 no I don't think it makes any
00:11:01 June 2017 no I don't think it makes any sense we sustain the burning building if there's a way for you to get out you care you don't stay in a building because someone has thought is to stay or some sinus thought is just that you get up a burning building if you can get up a better muting and that's what I
00:11:13 up a better muting and that's what I would do if I could careful tough to view them um and you say that it you know your view was if there was a fire it was to get out yes I'm did you have
00:11:26 it was to get out yes I'm did you have fire drills at work for example mmm I don't think so so what was it that influenced your view that if there was a fire then the best thing to do is to get
00:11:37 fire then the best thing to do is to get out if you live in a tower block there's no way to live in a table look especially when it's got one stairway and you've got gas pipes running with it
00:11:48 and you've got gas pipes running with it imagine emergency exit there's no way you're not going to think about if I have
00:11:51 have and you trying to get at some point only if you're not but yeah that used to come to my mind sometimes mr. Chairman I wonder if we could just take a break at
00:12:03 wonder if we could just take a break at this moment please yes just just for five minutes right well we're gonna find we have break some time to time for all sorts of different reasons
00:12:14 sorts of different reasons Council would like five minute break now so I think we'll do as he asks and we'll break until 25 to 3 I have to ask you
00:12:25 break until 25 to 3 I have to ask you not to talk to anyone about your evidence while you're after the room all right
00:12:29 right society good let's say with the actual she'll she'll look after you thank you sir
00:12:34 sir [Music]
00:12:47 25 to 3 inches
00:19:46 all right mr. Drummond you ready to go home
00:20:12 all right mr. Dillo be ready to carry on yes a thank you very much yes mr. Arthur thank you sir I'm mr. Lobby can I just ask you a question about a different topic if I may and
00:20:25 about a different topic if I may and it's the how the front door to your flat worked can we just look at your statement just what you remembered about the front door if we go to iws eight five one five please just look at
00:20:39 five one five please just look at paragraph 18 I'll just read out the first part of it front door to our flat
00:20:50 first part of it front door to our flat was replaced it was quite tied to the frame
00:20:52 frame and the door closed properly I can't remember whether we had an automatic door closer or whether there was any form of draft seal or draft excluder I do you know what that when the fire
00:21:03 do you know what that when the fire happened there wasn't any smoke in our flat until after we had opened the door I'd all had a letterbox on it sprang shot almost violently and then you finish I've never had any problem with
00:21:14 finish I've never had any problem with the door itself um but can you just help us with this was your door the type that you couldn't lock yourself out of yes it
00:21:26 you couldn't lock yourself out of yes it was so can you just explain to me just how it worked I mean it can only look yourself it's gonna look it from the outside or the inside if you don't lock it from the inside I'm lucky from the
00:21:37 it from the inside I'm lucky from the outside and you can just open it people from outside or the inside so you'd actually have to turn the lock to shut the door
00:21:45 the door yes fully yes and so if if the door was shot shut and but hadn't been locked could someone come into the flat yeah only if you open it and what kind of
00:21:56 only if you open it and what kind of handle was there on the door um I think it was a gold handle it wasn't a long one it was just like a circle kind of
00:22:07 one it was just like a circle kind of thing Incan just so like a doorknob rather than a and it wasn't a circle were kind of not to describe it but it and so if I'm standing outside that door and I just turn that hand
00:22:19 and I just turn that hand and push yeah and the lock isn't engaged with that allow me to come into your flat yes it would
00:22:28 could I please have page nine of the statement please and can we look at paragraphs 35 and 36 mr. Halabi we're going to take this in stages if I may
00:22:39 going to take this in stages if I may but what I want to do is just start asking you a few questions about the night of the fire it may help if I tell you the poach that I'm going to adopt is
00:22:51 you the poach that I'm going to adopt is not to ask you about every detail that you've put in your statement but just to pick out some issues on which I'd ask for some further information if that's possible and just to give us some
00:23:02 possible and just to give us some context what you say in the first paragraph is that you got home that night at about 6 or 7 p.m.
00:23:14 night at about 6 or 7 p.m. yeah and you described it as a very ordinary and normal evening yes and we were all in bed you say before midnight yes
00:23:24 yes you finish that paragraph we're saying that it was a summer's evening so we had our bedroom door windows open and other windows open to let some air into the flat so we know from we've seen the
00:23:37 flat so we know from we've seen the plants play out of your flat that you had two bedrooms didn't you yes so aside from those bedroom windows can you remember which windows you left open that night definitely the kitchen window
00:23:48 that night definitely the kitchen window because obviously this is someone you're gonna cook it's the kitchen it couldn't eat the windows open constantly so yeah and maybe one or two of the windows in the front room but I'm not sure thank
00:24:00 the front room but I'm not sure thank you we meet up at paragraph 36 what you say there is that it was approximately 1:30 a.m. when you first knew that something had gone awry and what you
00:24:12 something had gone awry and what you heard at that time was noise and shouting um what do you base the timing of 1:30 a.m. on the reason was had what
00:24:24 of 1:30 a.m. on the reason was had what the next day so obviously if I've been waking up by outside I wanted to check to see how much time I got left to sleep before I wake up again or what the next day well yeah you didn't go to plan that way and
00:24:35 yeah you didn't go to plan that way and did you check that by looking at your phone do that just before try to go back to sleep
00:24:50 if we go over to the next page please and just let's expand that from the top down to the end of paragraph 38 you say
00:25:05 down to the end of paragraph 38 you say and I'm dumb just going to destroy your attention part of it no signs of smoke or fire inside our flat from the hub of our voices on what I think was the walkway I could just about make out someone shouting fire fire
00:25:17 someone shouting fire fire it was seconds between waking up and realizing that there was a fire downstairs and then if we look at paragraph 38 say the first place I saw any evidence of the fire was on the
00:25:29 any evidence of the fire was on the outside of our flat and you described going into the kitchen and looking out of the window I just want to ask for a little bit more help on this place and hopefully you can try and help you by
00:25:42 hopefully you can try and help you by showing you a plan we have a meaty triple zero one two five nine three please and page 12 of that document
00:25:56 if we could expand flat three at the bottom
00:26:04 and you may already be aware of this mister to lobby but this isn't layout of the fourth floor yeah but it matches what the layout would be is you would have moved up the the tower so or on
00:26:18 have moved up the the tower so or on your floor that's the approximate layout of your flat your partner Rosemere oh yeah well they explained that what one thing we should notice that there was between the kitchen and the lounge there
00:26:30 between the kitchen and the lounge there would have been a sliding door but what we can see if you look at the if you look at the on the left hand side of the image you can you see sit the blue lines yeah and those those as I understand it
00:26:43 yeah and those those as I understand it designate the window so we've got one window the kitchen yeah was that the window that you first went to yes it was and can you just tell us what you could
00:26:54 and can you just tell us what you could see when you went to that window um so after all the noises for coming out from outside so I decided to investigate if I could see anything and if I around the
00:27:05 could see anything and if I around the building so I went straight in the kitchen and when I went to the kitchen
00:27:14 it has the pretty much been I see smoke coming Sheena from the company going up obviously I couldn't see the couple Cullen was kind of blocking blocking the stock of seats
00:27:27 of blocking blocking the stock of seats in my itself you can break that down and take it in stages so to see your you've
00:27:40 take it in stages so to see your you've told us your kitchen window is open yes and so you leant out of the window is that right no I didn't put my head out nothing I didn't have to put murdered out basically I looked up it
00:27:52 murdered out basically I looked up it wasn't close to the way can see the smoke coming out so probably from someone else's flat doors burning or something cause so yeah but it wasn't as close but could see it so I need us
00:28:03 close but could see it so I need us fight on that side you associated the smoke with with the column yeah and you say that it wasn't close but it
00:28:16 and you say that it wasn't close but it was a smoke below you mmm I could see smoke I don't know if was below coming from above but I could see smoke and I remember not saying nothing could see
00:28:29 remember not saying nothing could see rosemary so she doesn't floor she doesn't start panicking um was any of that smoke coming into your kitchen not upward can we look
00:28:42 your kitchen not upward can we look please at paragraph 39 on this on on back in your statements but page 10 of IW SH 585 one please
00:28:55 expand paragraph 39 please thank you now what you say there is that the next thing that you did was to go to the front door of your flat now before you
00:29:09 front door of your flat now before you got to the front door as you were approaching it were you aware of any smoke coming into the flap through that closed front door no there wasn't in a small good element and what lights did
00:29:20 small good element and what lights did you have on in your flat at that time the Creed on that for sure our bedroom light I wasn't sure about my daughter's
00:29:31 light I wasn't sure about my daughter's remember yeah and the front room that was an uncaused wouldn't leave did that on if weapons a bit sore I'm thinking if that was switched off in the front room
00:29:44 but what you set out in the paragraph is what you encountered when you open the front door and you say was like being punched in the face with thick black smoke
00:29:54 smoke it was akin to opening a hot oven this wall of heat and smoke hits you and can you tell us anything about what smoke smelt like um I can't describe it
00:30:07 smelt like um I can't describe it because there's not something that's not before I don't think anyone else anyone here what it's not sit before so it's not something I can describe to you you can have to read it yourself to understand it did it have any effect on
00:30:18 understand it did it have any effect on you no I don't do you remember where rosemary was at this time mmm popping again cuz I already Faustine hmm what is
00:30:40 again cuz I already Faustine hmm what is it before I open the door and the rosemary and I opened the door together I saw statement is noctis's but yeah all three of us cuz I woke up I told her to
00:30:51 three of us cuz I woke up I told her to get ready
00:30:51 get ready she got cuz I stood where to get to get dressed and all three of us tried to got to kill her and we're heat with the smoke so we had to come back in so if we if we take that
00:31:04 to come back in so if we if we take that paragraph 39 your recollection is that that time that you opened the door here you'd already made a decision to leave the flat yeah that's the first thing we did when I woke up I know what rosemary
00:31:17 did when I woke up I know what rosemary open because it lifts the butan and is it your your memory that the rosemary would have been with you by the front door yes and your daughter was with you
00:31:30 door yes and your daughter was with you yes did you you say I closed the door as soon as we had opened it did you step
00:31:41 soon as we had opened it did you step out into the communal hallway at all I'm not sure if I did or maybe I put that my head out or we try to escape me saw that
00:31:52 head out or we try to escape me saw that it was just deep dark and the smoke was just different he wasn't like a smoke from that cooking it was just like there was something serious happening that you can't take that risk of tryna step in
00:32:04 can't take that risk of tryna step in there so we shot the dog that they shot I shot it yeah can you remember how many times you opened the door me personally
00:32:17 times you opened the door me personally open the door only once Bob the door was open - Oh a few times that night we'll come back to that if I may yeah in due course um again I hope my
00:32:36 yeah in due course um again I hope my questions are just about getting a bit more detailed from you but um when you open the door on this occasion that we see in this paragraph can you describe what your visibility was like in the communal hallway um to be fair I don't
00:32:50 communal hallway um to be fair I don't know I couldn't see nothing I don't even know if the light was switched on on f30 if the smoke was just all thick and we couldn't see delight well it was some pitch black let me open
00:33:01 well it was some pitch black let me open the door
00:33:03 the door let's just take you now to another couple of paragraphs in your statement which is on the same page can we look at paragraphs 41 and 42 please what you
00:33:16 paragraphs 41 and 42 please what you tell us in paragraph 41 that was that Rosemarie began to put blankets around the door to prevent the smoke coming in and you were throwing water on the blankets and did those efforts work did
00:33:29 blankets and did those efforts work did they stop smoke coming into your flat perm yes it did did you know what yeah because she kept on doing it for a long time actually so yeah yeah it helped a bit yeah and what
00:33:43 yeah yeah it helped a bit yeah and what you say we pick now at paragraph 42 10 to 15 minutes after we woken up and discovered there was a fire two firefighters knocked on the door and you say you opened the door and letting two
00:33:57 say you opened the door and letting two firefighters who banged on the door and by doing that more smoke came into the flat
00:34:03 flat can can you describe the firefighters at all
00:34:06 all no I don't know what it looks like I can't describe him they big or small I wasn't thinking I just thinking about getting out getting out the fire do you
00:34:17 getting out getting out the fire do you remember if they were wearing masks I think the way do you remember them ever taking the masks off remember I'm sorry I'll take you back to the plan if you
00:34:29 I'll take you back to the plan if you want to see it and tell me if you do but do you remember how far these firefighters came into your flower I think they actually came into the room
00:34:44 think they actually came into the room because I remember rosemary telling one of them not to stain our wall and I said that's the list of our problem right now because I don't think she knew what she
00:34:55 because I don't think she knew what she was in and when you say they came into the room which room do you have in mind a bedroom let's go to the plan please
00:35:06 a bedroom let's go to the plan please mmm et triple zero one five
00:35:11 come one two five nine three please and page 12 thank you again can we expand flat three down in the southwest corner
00:35:27 you've got two bedrooms and is it right that the bedroom that's closest to the lounge was your daughter's bedroom that's correct and so the next bedroom and that's the bedroom that faces the
00:35:39 and that's the bedroom that faces the front door was yours and Rosemary's bedroom that's correct and is it your recollection that these firefighters actually came into the bedroom yes when they were in your flat
00:35:53 bedroom yes when they were in your flat did they ask how many people were in the flat I'm not sure but maybe they did but I'm not sure before we leave this plan
00:36:06 I'm not sure before we leave this plan we know that and correct me if I'm wrong but that there was a double bed in the bedroom that was used by yourself and Rosemarie is that right no sir Kingsley is better a king-sized
00:36:17 no sir Kingsley is better a king-sized bed what furniture did you have in your daughter's bedroom I'm a double bed a bunk bed a bunk bed yes can we go back
00:36:31 bunk bed a bunk bed yes can we go back to your statement again please I WS a 5-1 page 11 now and could we expand
00:36:43 5-1 page 11 now and could we expand please paragraphs 43 and 44
00:36:51 so when the firefighters first came into your flat can you remember whether it was yourself or rosemary that let them in kora member sir and they then left
00:37:05 in kora member sir and they then left and presumably the door was shut after them is that right yes it was so if we pick it up at paragraph 43 you say that they came to the door again you're not
00:37:18 they came to the door again you're not sure if they were the same two that come previously and they knocked on the door and we let them in can you help us with who who let these two firefighters in this time like I said I can't remember
00:37:30 this time like I said I can't remember their own but could it mean arose may one of us let him in well you still there that time around the front door throwing water onto the blankets and
00:37:42 throwing water onto the blankets and things like that I think song so this is the second visit by firefighters to your flat isn't air
00:37:53 not wrong but can you tell us what you've told us is that you've had one visit where two firefighters come and they come into your bedroom yeah and then this is now firefighters coming
00:38:04 then this is now firefighters coming back to the door again can you can you help us at all with how much time passed between those two visits no I don't wanna say something I'm not sure about that's that's fair enough if we look at
00:38:18 that's that's fair enough if we look at what the firefighters told you you write that the two firefighters that came in told us that our flat was either the least damaged or the least at risk of
00:38:30 least damaged or the least at risk of damage in the farm the 14th floor and they asked you if they could bring people into your flat do you see that yes did they tell you anything of what
00:38:41 yes did they tell you anything of what was going on in the other flats on your floor
00:38:43 floor no they didn't they just said to us is your right they bring our neighbors cause of that seemed to be the safest place as of that time so obviously that
00:38:54 place as of that time so obviously that doesn't sound very good and yet asked us if they could bring our neighbors and we said yes they could and then what we see is that that they if we
00:39:08 then what we see is that that they if we look at paragraph 44 you say it can't be more than a couple of minutes after the firefighters came to the second time when they came again with the people from our floor into our flat so they
00:39:20 from our floor into our flat so they bought in Dennis Murphy showing up and her son and then the brothers Omar and Mohamed do you remember if they all came together in one group or did they come
00:39:33 together in one group or did they come in batches nothing they came together
00:39:40 and when they came did firefighters come into the flat with with them maybe I'm not sure now I think in your statement
00:39:55 not sure now I think in your statement what you explains that each time the front door opened smoke would come in from the communal area through that door wouldn't it yes other than those
00:40:06 wouldn't it yes other than those occasions yeah by the time that your neighbors arrived in your flat had you been successful in stopping smoke from coming through the front door there was
00:40:22 coming through the front door there was smoke coming in but just it wasn't like very smoky but yeah there's more coming in so it was still a bit of smoke in the house it wasn't like you couldn't see nothing or yeah well it was smoke and
00:40:35 nothing or yeah well it was smoke and whereabouts in in your flat did you see that smoke more of the corridor but he wasn't big or nothing no
00:40:51 can we look at paragraph 45 please I
00:40:59 just want to pick up the last sentence of that paragraph please mr. to Lobby you say we were all sat in the bedroom then it's a man one of the brothers were
00:41:12 then it's a man one of the brothers were sat on the bed which bedroom are you referring to there are bedroom so when your what's your recollection of where
00:41:25 your what's your recollection of where your neighbors went in your flat when they arrived oh my and his brother kind of water round I think they were trying to expect I don't know but they walked around I can't remember where Zeynep was
00:41:38 around I can't remember where Zeynep was and and Jeremiah but I can remember Dennis my love you wasn't it in the forum but did they come a time when you
00:41:49 forum but did they come a time when you all ended up in your bedroom I don't know the reasons why we all ended up in the bedroom but Dennis Murphy was in the front room I know that for that because there wasn't really
00:42:00 for that because there wasn't really grabbed him to take it to wash his face and give him more so yeah I remember that clearing so you remember Dennis being in the front room yes and rosemary
00:42:14 being in the front room yes and rosemary helping him to wash his face is that what you said if we look at that sentence as you said that we were all sat in the bedroom and you mentioned Dennis specifically remember Dennis
00:42:26 Dennis specifically remember Dennis being bought into the bedroom I don't know I got in there I think I don't know how we got in there but yeah eating has been very long in the front room because
00:42:37 been very long in the front room because all of us was in the bedroom after a while
00:42:45 and you remember um can you tell us why you all ended up in the bedroom I don't know just I don't know I don't know I
00:42:58 know just I don't know I don't know I don't know I don't know you told us that earlier you've gone to your kitchen window and looked out and seen smoke
00:43:09 window and looked out and seen smoke from either your lounge windows or your kitchen windows had you had you've gone back to look out of those windows at all yes I did go back to the kitchen and now
00:43:20 yes I did go back to the kitchen and now I could see like a bit more kind of like coming not I could see a bit more it was getting and and that's one of the things
00:43:36 getting and and that's one of the things that prompted me to start doing what I was doing that's something I'm going to ask you next if I may but just before we leave that trip to the kitchen window
00:43:48 leave that trip to the kitchen window you say you could see more light did you have a sense of how close that that was to you
00:43:54 to you no but obviously it was sauce smoked before and I can see fire that misses getting a bit closer so yeah and when you say you could smell see fire was it flames that you could see this and where
00:44:07 flames that you could see this and where there you again was it towards your your right as you look out at the different window same area yeah do you remember um
00:44:18 window same area yeah do you remember um zeyneb using her phone while she was in flat one one three yes do you remember who she was calling no I know I didn't know she was talking to that point but now I know she was talking to say that
00:44:30 now I know she was talking to say that was something that yeah at the time you didn't hear who she was speaking to um I saw they're not saying up that night and before the fire started and she was of a man and yeah that's the
00:44:42 she was of a man and yeah that's the person she was diggin see she said she was speaking to a friend of hers yes would you recall and Dennis being on the phone at all a sign of a pawnbroker remember it was actually using the phone
00:44:53 remember it was actually using the phone by some weaver phone but I don't remember you actually using it let's just just remind yourself of
00:45:08 it let's just just remind yourself of that last sentence that you say we were all sat in the bedroom Dennis Dennis zeyneb and one of the brothers were sat on the bed and let's go to M et triple zero one two five nine three again
00:45:19 zero one two five nine three again please
00:45:20 please on page twelve again expand flat three I think and the bedroom you have in mind
00:45:31 think and the bedroom you have in mind is is the bedroom that you that was for you and Rose Marie is that right that's correct
00:45:36 correct Rose Marie told us yesterday that the if you see the wall that separates the two bedroom she's told she told us that the your your king-size bed came out from
00:45:47 your your king-size bed came out from that war into the middle of the room is that your recollection yes correct so there was there would have been a space on either side of the bed with those currents are you able to say you can see
00:45:59 currents are you able to say you can see the door of the bedroom that leads out into the hallway can you tell us where dennis was sat on the bed
00:46:14 so he was up sat on the side of the bed closest to the bedroom door I think we didn't hear your answer sir yeah that's correct
00:46:23 correct and what about Zeynep where was she zeyneb was panicking throughout the whole thing so she wasn't seen down low she was um my image I can see the flame
00:46:34 she was um my image I can see the flame of right now as i standing so on the on the wall that's closest to the the next door flat what the bed here at the foot
00:46:47 door flat what the bed here at the foot of the bed yeah and we were also told yes sir
00:46:53 yes sir Rosen remembered saying of some being put on the bed you remember that as well yes it was next to my door time and do you remember where the the the omar and
00:47:04 you remember where the the the omar and muhammad wa aale muhammad we're walking around the whole place I think obviously if there's a fire trying to seal how to get out I'm trying to see where the fire might be so there
00:47:16 to see where the fire might be so there wasn't really settled in one place it was just was there and when everyone congregated in the room then yeah what oh man oh man I was walking about the
00:47:27 oh man oh man I was walking about the police so what your recollection is that towards the end they they they came into the bedroom all of us was in bedroom and which we're about you mentioned you're
00:47:38 which we're about you mentioned you're saying that one of the brothers was sat on the bed whereabouts was that now I remember
00:47:43 remember Muhammad sitting on a bit it was the window and I remember him reading his Quran thank you
00:47:54 reading his Quran thank you could we please go to page 12 of your statement and let's look at paragraph 46
00:48:05 you saying that paragraph that when the firefighters left after dropping our neighbors off to our flat they told us that they would be back at that time when they told you that did the
00:48:17 when they told you that did the firefighters explain why you could not leave with them no did they give you any advice about what you should do until they did come back not that it in if we
00:48:34 they did come back not that it in if we look on the same page please paragraphs 47 and 48 please this is the part of your statement mr. to lobby where you
00:48:47 your statement mr. to lobby where you explained that you about making the makeshift row I I don't have to go into the detail of it because there it's already there in the statement but can I
00:49:01 already there in the statement but can I just ask you just again for some additional details if I may what you set out in your statement is that you made a rope from bed linen and then you tied it around the metal windows surround can
00:49:15 around the metal windows surround can you remember which window you were tying it around yes I can which window was it that we know in the bedroom and that's the window in the bedroom in your bedroom yes and when you were doing this
00:49:32 can you remember who was in the room with you everyone and did you tell everyone what you were planning to do everyone could see what was doing what
00:49:45 everyone could see what was doing what did they say to you I shouldn't
00:49:50 and just so we can understand me I think you explained how you created the road did when you after you hung it out of the window how far down did it
00:50:01 out of the window how far down did it reach I think maybe about the first floor something like that you explained
00:50:16 floor something like that you explained that you lowered yourself out of the window but the problem was that your daughter didn't want to come with you so she didn't want to be passed to you is that right that's correct
00:50:28 that right that's correct um and when you realize that your daughter wouldn't come out with you how did you get back into the flat so I was
00:50:39 did you get back into the flat so I was struggling to get back into the flat and on that this broke up holding me record
00:50:46 would you like to have a break no scary and please thank you um and when you climbed back in what did you do with your rope I lived it trying it was gonna
00:50:57 your rope I lived it trying it was gonna go back again you've told us that this was your bedroom window at the time that you were making these efforts and what could you see from the window I could
00:51:10 could you see from the window I could see if I hope it gets down there boy did you look like you were going to come help us and what were the conditions like in your flat at this time it's just
00:51:22 like in your flat at this time it's just a bit of smoke and was that still smoke coming through the front door yes but yeah could you at that time were
00:51:36 yes but yeah could you at that time were there lights on in the bedroom yes it was and what about the lighting in the hallway yes yes
00:51:50 can I take you just now to the next page in your statement which is page 13 can we look please at paragraphs 52 53
00:52:03 we look please at paragraphs 52 53 [Music]
00:52:17 just can I just go back to the rope that you put together where did you get the the bed sheets from I took it from every
00:52:29 the bed sheets from I took it from every way in the house I take it from kazars room my daughter's room I take it from like a little storage rink where we kept all bed sheets and everything I'll take it from there take it from our bedroom I
00:52:40 it from there take it from our bedroom I just tied everything that we had announced even the pillowcases and everything so did you have to take the sheets off your own bed as well I'm a caramel boy if I don't if I if I took
00:52:51 caramel boy if I don't if I if I took dominar but yeah so would you remember your neighbours having to move off the bed whilst you were doing that no I started doing nothing buddy came in the house if we look please at some
00:53:08 house if we look please at some paragraphs 50 and 51 in particular what you say is that you made one attempt to get out of the window and you say about
00:53:19 get out of the window and you say about 10 or 15 minutes after the first attempt I decided to make another attempt and how confident are you about the time period between your two attempts to come
00:53:30 period between your two attempts to come out of the window as an estimate and you explained that you took some Nigerian cloth that you had in the flat and you tied your daughter on to your back
00:53:42 tied your daughter on to your back rosemarie yeah and how tightly bound to you was your daughter very thick and was she covered completely by the cloth no
00:53:53 she covered completely by the cloth no hands but and you know legs were hanging out and I had was an analysis
00:54:01 so it's almost like you were giving her a piggyback but with a tight cloth around you her you know and when you made this second attempt was it from the
00:54:13 made this second attempt was it from the same window we didn't make a second attempt because what were you that that's a fair quite a fair response but can I ask it in this way were you going
00:54:24 can I ask it in this way were you going to go out from the same window yes because we didn't think I was coming to get us
00:54:37 so that was was just to be clear was that the the bedroom window yes it was and as you rightly pointed out you say a
00:54:49 and as you rightly pointed out you say a paragraph if you want just as I was being you need to climb out of the window
00:54:53 window the firefighters knocked on the door for the third time so if we take this in stages where were you when you heard
00:55:05 stages where were you when you heard that knock on the door I think we had just died my daughter my back and Rosemere taken this decision cause
00:55:16 Rosemere taken this decision cause obviously she must have popped her head out as well as she must have seen the fire coming from the top because she wasn't she didn't want to in the first place but obviously she decided that that's to me on my head so she had my
00:55:28 that's to me on my head so she had my daughter in my back and I was explaining the way we're gonna get back I'm climbing the thing down and yeah so part of awakened therefore we get the door
00:55:39 of awakened therefore we get the door open and this is the bedroom door open or closed you know at least knock to my recollection it was open so from the
00:55:51 recollection it was open so from the bedroom you could see through to the front door yes you can what were the conditions like in your hallway at that time smoky bar I could still see so from where you were will
00:56:05 still see so from where you were will you buy by the window is that where you were I'll say maybe not very close to the window but just about probably where the zone was standing before about that
00:56:16 the zone was standing before about that yeah I said - I know what standing here son oh yeah and so again what what was the visibility like in there in the
00:56:27 the visibility like in there in the hallway
00:56:27 hallway um to be fair cuz we had spent a lot quite a lot of time in the room and I didn't go back through that way so I don't know what was happening in the kitchen anymore don't know what was
00:56:38 kitchen anymore don't know what was happening in the front room and I don't know what's happening in the corridor was just preparing to go through the window and yeah and then you had to knock on the door I don't think it was a knocker Don of the party and I don't know what he
00:56:49 of the party and I don't know what he was by him do you remember whether the lights were on in the hallway oh yes Oh we lift it on by don't know I don't know
00:57:07 at this time when when you hear this knock on the door can you remember where everybody else was in the bedroom so
00:57:18 everybody else was in the bedroom so let's go to M et triple three one two five nine three again please page 12 and
00:57:30 five nine three again please page 12 and again if we could expand flat three and
00:57:37 again if I could just take it in stages please missus it's lovely but the bedroom we're speaking of is is the one that's closest to the next door flat and that's yours and Rose braces intended
00:57:48 that's yours and Rose braces intended that's correct so your recollection is that the bedroom door was open yes and everyone was in the bedroom I'd like to think everyone's I don't
00:57:59 I'd like to think everyone's I don't know cuz I know Dana wasn't a bedroom her son wasn't a bedroom Dennis wasn't a bedroom I don't know if on my end and
00:58:10 bedroom I don't know if on my end and his preferred water ran by Lord James before Shore was in a bedroom at the time that the knock happens on that door yeah
00:58:18 yeah what's clear in your mind is that you were in the bedroom yes was rosemary with you yes and your daughter was strapped to your back yes so whereabouts were you and rosemary
00:58:30 so whereabouts were you and rosemary there in the back said earlier both but where has said I'm sorry
00:58:40 so towards the foot of the bed yes where was Dennis in position he was was
00:58:52 where was Dennis in position he was was he still sat on the bed yes and on the side of the bed closest to the door yes um which do you think he was close to sat closest at the top of the bed or to the middle of it or to the bottom if he
00:59:04 the middle of it or to the bottom if he opened a door you would see Dennis you would see Dennis and what about zeyneb I don't know but you see Dennis I never seen you see Jeremiah because he
00:59:15 never seen you see Jeremiah because he was on the bed yes can we go please to your statement page 13 again
00:59:31 and pick up please paragraph 54 we can have that this is the the paragraph that
00:59:42 have that this is the the paragraph that you corrected for us mr. telluric so the first sentence should read the firefighters then came for the last time can you remember how many firefighters came um I know it was more than one but
00:59:55 came um I know it was more than one but the person that said go or whatever where he said was one person I think the over fire fire mr. Dennis standing outside of the door so the person that you recall one person saying go yeah is
01:00:08 you recall one person saying go yeah is that right that's correct and where was that person in relation to the front door
01:00:13 door miss probably got one foot inside and one foot outside I'll see something that ever and do you have a clear recollection then of this firefighter
01:00:24 recollection then of this firefighter actual front door sorry so do you have a clear memory of a firefighter at actual front door yes do you know how the do you remember if anyone opened the
01:00:36 do you remember if anyone opened the door to the firefighter no I don't did you open the door I didn't what about Rosemarie no I don't think so
01:00:51 what could you see if the communal hall area behind this firefighter nothing were you aware of smoke coming in there obviously few up on the door in the
01:01:03 obviously few up on the door in the place of smoke it and smokes gonna come for him what you say is that what you heard was go did you say anything to the
01:01:14 heard was go did you say anything to the firefighter no did you hear anyone else speak to the firefighters no and you
01:01:25 speak to the firefighters no and you explained that what what if we look at that last couple of sentences in that paragraph it definitely seemed like an option to rosemarie me it was a matter
01:01:36 option to rosemarie me it was a matter of choices go through the window make a run for it down the stairs or die in the flat so I grabbed rose me by the hand and with this is your daughter on my back we ran just before you
01:01:58 I'll take a step back I don't know what when the firefighter came in through the front door did the visibility in your hallway change it was quick so I don't know if
01:02:10 change it was quick so I don't know if it did what about the last time here yes yeah I don't know cause it was quick do you have a recollection of the front door being open yes I do have a
01:02:23 door being open yes I do have a recollection of smoke coming in through the open front door I don't know um did
01:02:36 the open front door I don't know um did you before you left the flat or when you left the flat what I usually was your daughter's still strapped to your back yes she was and you remember you say that you and
01:02:50 and you remember you say that you and Rosemarie held each other's hands and you ran were any of your neighbors ahead of you I don't know in doing the best you can just before you left the flat
01:03:03 you can just before you left the flat where was everybody else like I said in the bedroom I don't know if Omar and his brother had mute well I know Jeremiah wasn't a bit dennis was just quite for
01:03:15 wasn't a bit dennis was just quite for the whole night it didn't really go anywhere so I'm not Dennis was in a room and Rosemarie was in a room I don't know I'm not sure about Omar and and it's provokers they were very active can we
01:03:28 provokers they were very active can we get a page 14 please and look at paragraph 56
01:03:37 this is part of your statement where you actually if we could look at 57 sorry
01:03:48 this is the part of your statement where you describe what you encountered when you left the flat and you describe the thick smoke hits me I couldn't see anything at all not even my feet or a
01:03:59 anything at all not even my feet or a hand in front of my face
01:04:03 were you aware of firefighters in the communal area yes what was it that told you they were there I'm like I said earlier one of them had his leg in and
01:04:18 earlier one of them had his leg in and one leg out and then he had one person behind him so I'm not sure I mean it was but not that person had someone with them do you have a recollection of being helped out of the flat or pushed along
01:04:29 helped out of the flat or pushed along nobody touched us no one helped to stop
01:04:34 and your recollection is that you you had to push the stairwell door open is that right it was no he did and when you got into the stairwell what were the conditions
01:04:45 the stairwell what were the conditions like there um I felt like I was being strangled it was really hot I felt like
01:05:00 strangled it was really hot I felt like I was being strangled my door was behind me and she was making also of noises and it was just painful to hear I felt like I was pulling now
01:05:11 I was pulling now I don't know you feel like you're putting your door free like obviously it's not your fault you're trying to save her but that's the worst thing you can put your daughter free but yeah so yeah you've set out in your statement
01:05:25 yeah you've set out in your statement how you came down the stairwell and then came out through the main entrance but and you've also described the smoke that was coming into your flat what you
01:05:36 was coming into your flat what you encountered on the communal hallway and then in the stairs when you came out outside of the tower what physical
01:05:48 outside of the tower what physical effect did that smoke have on you I was disorientated I was caught in a
01:05:59 big black stop my nose was running my taught the same thing so was rosemary like was away in a bad state Jamie facts
01:06:16 like was away in a bad state Jamie facts just have a moment before you left the flat did you hear any of your neighbors
01:06:30 flat did you hear any of your neighbors say anything to the firefighter no and more specifically did you hear Omar say anything to the firefighter um I didn't
01:06:46 anything to the firefighter um I didn't say nothing to nobody did you hear the apart from the word go did you hear any firefighter say anything to someone someone in the flat no mr. Jim those are
01:07:00 someone in the flat no mr. Jim those are my questions may I ask for the usual 5-minute break just to check if there are any other supplemental questions I ought to have asked yes lovely at this point council thinks he's asked all
01:07:12 point council thinks he's asked all these questions but sometimes it turns out there are further questions they should have put to you so we're gonna have five minute break now so he can take stock and we all come back at hopple Street see if there any more
01:07:23 hopple Street see if there any more questions I think asked you not to talk about your evidence while you're to the thank you all right thank you give the option and look after you thank you
01:07:43 right haha Street in case
01:16:20 would you like to go out again for spell
01:16:30 cold mr. Darby you come and sit down let them do their talking
01:16:50 not mr. Rohit I take it you've got some more questions it does seem I have small those days gem yes I think any a few more questions I'm hoping so anyway yes
01:17:05 sloppy I there are a number of questions I've been asked to put to you and it may mean that we jump around a little bit so just so that you can get orientate
01:17:17 just so that you can get orientate yourself let me take you back to page 13 of your statement so iw s85 1:13 please and let's look again at paragraph 54 so
01:17:32 this is the paragraph where you deal with the arrival of the firefighters in your home for the last time ok now I think you told us and tell me if I've
01:17:43 think you told us and tell me if I've got this wrong that you were in the bedroom at that time and your recollection is of a firefighter at the front door with one foot in the flat and
01:17:54 front door with one foot in the flat and one foot out yeah it wasn't me I don't think he was in the flat it wasn't in a flat it was in between the door and yeah so would it be would with a fair way of
01:18:05 so would it be would with a fair way of describing say that there was a firefighter on the edge of your front door yes whilst you were still in the flat and before you left it was there any point so far as you can remember
01:18:18 any point so far as you can remember where a firefighter went beyond that front door and further into your flat no and just again so we can clear did you ever see a firefighter walk past your
01:18:29 ever see a firefighter walk past your bedroom door further into the flat at that time no
01:18:39 the pub basically stood there and as and said go minion take your chance and go it didn't I didn't seem go past but he
01:18:53 it didn't I didn't seem go past but he was still standing there when we left say he was in the same position yes and how sure are you in your mind that before you left that flat no firefighter had gone beyond the front door positive
01:19:14 what you say his recollection of the firefighters saying go when you were told to leave do you remember what the
01:19:26 told to leave do you remember what the noise level like was like him in the flat you know that yes when obviously was shouting screaming for help before
01:19:37 was shouting screaming for help before the fire brigade came but I wasn't really shouting because there's no point in making it was just scared you can just feel everyone being scared but people were not shouting off at the time
01:19:49 people were not shouting off at the time that the firefighters arrived and and you heard that the instruction go yeah what kind of noise was there in the flat with you men do you would you remember anybody else talking or shouting at the
01:20:01 anybody else talking or shouting at the time when the firefighters arrived people were not shouting obviously dick at the ferpa I came and we fought there coming to rescue us so I don't think anyone will be shouting at that point if you've seen anyone that's coming to
01:20:12 you've seen anyone that's coming to rescue you um the last time you were you were in your lounge and recognized it what we're talking about now you're
01:20:23 what we're talking about now you're you've told us you were in the bedroom going back to the last time you were in the lounge were the lights in the lounge still working oh let's now us in our in my house was working and you do you have
01:20:36 my house was working and you do you have a clear memory of the lights in the lounge being on yes
01:20:43 and we know when we weave from your statement and from the class sorry can I just say yes I spent a lot of time in the bedroom we spent a lot of time in a bedroom like I said earlier we didn't I
01:20:55 bedroom like I said earlier we didn't I don't know what's happening in the corridor I wasn't focusing always I've been in the corridor the lab might be switched on switched off I do not know that's fair enough thank you um can you just
01:21:06 just was there a door in into the lounge what do you mean well did you have a lounge door if I if I were coming along your hallway to the lounge with a door yes and can you describe that door it was a
01:21:20 and can you describe that door it was a wooden door with glass in it and where was the glass in the door it was just everywhere I think say had it had glass panels from
01:21:32 I think say had it had glass panels from top to bottom I think so
01:21:38 can I take you back please and it'll be for the last time to M et triple zero one two five nine three page 12 again and again if we could expand flat three
01:21:57 if you were if we take you to room in turn if we may but if you were in the bedroom that was yours and rose rosemarys and you were looking out of
01:22:09 rosemarys and you were looking out of that window would you be able from that bedroom to see the walkway that's attached to the tower yes you are and what about from your daughter's bedroom
01:22:20 what about from your daughter's bedroom unless she stretched you up I haven't tried it before cause she's had a bed a bunk bed but because she's still open I've never tried to lay it out to see so I don't know so robably is it from your bedroom that
01:22:33 so robably is it from your bedroom that you get the best view of the walkway yes and if again just for completeness if we were moving along and we're now we move to the lounge would you again would it
01:22:44 to the lounge would you again would it be the case that if you were using the lounge windows that's on the South there would you have to stretch out to try and see the walkway the walk was a long stretch depends on what Provost Rosser walk while you're trying to see if
01:22:55 walk while you're trying to see if you're trying to see where to enter our entrances then it'll be hard if you're trying to look towards like my road then here you can Blake I try to Lutz was where the entrance our entrance was be a bit harder from different room and it's
01:23:06 bit harder from different room and it's that that part that we're interested in is attached to the tower so the best view is from your bedroom yes I think
01:23:19 view is from your bedroom yes I think that's all the questions I've been asked to cover with you mister to lobby I've got one final matter for you is there anything further about the events of the
01:23:31 anything further about the events of the night and what you saw and heard on that night above what you've put in your written statement or in your answers today that you think it's important to draw to the attention of the chairman
01:23:46 first and foremost I'd like to say thank you to everyone that supported us throughout this whole process of trying to get justice we really appreciate it because it's hard but yeah as well I
01:23:58 because it's hard but yeah as well I like to speak about to fabricate if I can no one should ever have to go to work and not return back to their family no one where were your fire brigade
01:24:11 no one where were your fire brigade where your fire fight or whatever job you do but at the end of the day it'll be easier sometimes if you just say the truth because that way people will forgive you it'll be easier for people to forgive
01:24:22 it'll be easier for people to forgive you the people have lost family members in the tower and fire fires of a blight on them and lied about the missions that
01:24:33 on them and lied about the missions that I went on this is not fair on the families and everything they've been through they should be putting the blame on their bosses but not giving them the
01:24:44 on their bosses but not giving them the right equipment to work that night because their bosses put them in danger as well as putting us in danger but you shouldn't lie on residents that confer enough as it is and say it did rescue
01:24:57 enough as it is and say it did rescue missions that I didn't do I would like to thank Peter era for opening that door because if you didn't open that door I probably with a comforting window and I probably would have died maybe maybe not but same time Patera made lots of
01:25:10 but same time Patera made lots of mistakes that night Patera is a human being all you had to say was I tried my best I was scared don't lie on people don't lie innocent people don't know that don't don't know
01:25:21 people don't know that don't don't know people have lost their family members he didn't admit is a lot of the vampires some of their statements I've made the
01:25:32 some of their statements I've made the residents even worse all you had to do was come out hold your hands up and say we tried listen I put myself in your shoes would I want to go into that building No
01:25:43 building No so if you did what are you how much just say listen we tried our best but you're not the right equipment don't lie because that way even if you want to forgive his heart was to forgive you that way if you had if some of them had
01:25:56 that way if you had if some of them had just opened up and said listen couldn't be I think we'll be able to forgive them but yeah that's enough to say and I'd like to thank all the firm or the people like I said before
01:26:08 or the people like I said before everyone does support us everyone all the people all the survivors and hopefully we'll continue to stay strong together and get justice all right thank
01:26:19 together and get justice all right thank you very much thank you very much mr. Davi I think it's right that I should thank you for coming to give your evidence this afternoon it's you had Anna rendus experience and it's
01:26:30 Anna rendus experience and it's obviously been quite difficult for you to come and talk about it and we're all very grateful that you've done so and your evidence will help us a lot thank you very much thank you very much thank you sir right to give the ushers
01:26:42 thank you sir right to give the ushers you look after you
01:26:52 it's Gemini just hand over to mr. Millard yes mr. Jefferson imminent we've got some reading to do and there are a
01:27:03 got some reading to do and there are a number of statements to read into the record yeah it may be I reckon I'll take about 45 minutes or so to do say I don't want to rush it it may be convenient now to take a short break the shorthand writers if if nobody
01:27:16 break the shorthand writers if if nobody else or I can press straight on and me your hands well I'm not getting a signal from my right that'd break his particularly requested by the tour ten writers so I think probably we could just very well
01:27:28 think probably we could just very well know um the first statement I would wish to read into the record is that of mr. Mahmud Kirk al kharid that's under I WS
01:27:42 Mahmud Kirk al kharid that's under I WS quintuple zero eight to one and it comes with two exhibits Mak one and Mak two respectively I WS cripples zero eight one nine and seven nine one now mr. al
01:27:58 one nine and seven nine one now mr. al kharid
01:27:58 kharid was from flat 112 on the 14th floor he wasn't present during the fire but he attended it while it was in progress and his statement was made on the 26th of
01:28:09 his statement was made on the 26th of June 2018 and it is accompanied by a signature with a statement of truth of page 12 I'm going to read particular parts of it to you I'm starting if I can
01:28:22 parts of it to you I'm starting if I can at paragraph 11 on page three he says the front door of flat 112 was wooden it closed automatically the door did not have any damage on the 14th of June 2017
01:28:35 have any damage on the 14th of June 2017 it was the same front door as when he had first moved in it was not changed during our tenancy I think the door had four hinges but I'm not sure the door had a metal letterbox which was easy to
01:28:46 had a metal letterbox which was easy to open when we first moved in the door didn't used to close by itself but after three months someone came to change the mechanism of the door it would then closed by itself there were no problems with the electricity supply and there
01:28:58 with the electricity supply and there were no power shortages I do not know if the electrical installations were ever checked it could be that I was about or a college while they were being checked home or Mohammad never mentioned to me that anyone had come to check the
01:29:11 to me that anyone had come to check the electrics now I should just say at this point that that's a reference to his cousin's Omar and Mohammed and mr.
01:29:28 cousin's Omar and Mohammed and mr. Alcott had lived in flat 112 with omar and mohammad al dajjal e for some time they'd known each other since childhood and they'd moved into Grenville tower in
01:29:39 and they'd moved into Grenville tower in September 2016
01:29:45 continuing with the statement a paragraph 16 he says there were two lifts which were often out of service there was always one out of service sometimes both would be out of service even when using it it was dangerous the
01:29:57 even when using it it was dangerous the lifts make noise and touch the wall the air inside the lift was stuffy and it was difficult to breathe well inside there would also be rubbish inside the lift at all times sometimes when the lifts were not working I would have to walk up to the
01:30:09 working I would have to walk up to the 14th floor usually it took three days to fix the lifts when they were broken in the event of fire I knew not to use the lift I used the staircase once every two weeks the lifts were always busy with
01:30:20 weeks the lifts were always busy with many people waiting to use them especially when only one lift was working rather than waiting I would walk up to the 14th floor and allow the elderly and the children to use the lift the stairwell had good lighting whenever
01:30:31 the stairwell had good lighting whenever I used them however the staircase wasn't clean people smoked weed there so sometimes there was a smell the steps on the stairs were not even some were higher than the others I used to exercise regularly in the
01:30:43 I used to exercise regularly in the stairwell running up and down so I'm very much aware of its general condition the door to the stairwell from our landing on the 14th floor was wooden and it opened out to the stairs the door closed automatically and would shut
01:30:54 closed automatically and would shut behind you the stairwell had a handrail which was very low the stairs were not very wide and only two people would be able to cross on the stairs the flow of air in the stairs was not great I found
01:31:05 air in the stairs was not great I found myself getting out of breath when exercising not only because I was exercising but because the stairwell was a small space with a lack of airflow a tiger of 20 on page five he goes on to
01:31:18 tiger of 20 on page five he goes on to say
01:31:18 say the landlord mr. as AB showed us the fire exit when we first moved in this was the only information that we received about fire safety the information was given orally we knew that there was only one stairwell to
01:31:29 that there was only one stairwell to exit the tower our bkc stroke TMO never gave us information about fire safety I'm not aware of the London Fire Brigade carrying out home fire safety checks in the days before the fire before the 14th
01:31:41 the days before the fire before the 14th of June if there was a fire inside the flat I would have left the building straight away this would be better than staying inside it is safer to leave I feel like I would have control over the
01:31:52 feel like I would have control over the situation if there was a fire somewhere else I would probably wait for the fire brigade for instructions and perhaps leave it if it was a major fire I'm not sure if there was a communal fire alarm system in Grenville tower I did not see
01:32:05 system in Grenville tower I did not see any but I know that there was a smoke alarm inside flat 112 and then he deals from paragraph 14 onwards with the
01:32:16 from paragraph 14 onwards with the evening of the 13th of June I'll read that I think probably to make something slightly clearer than I from what I said before I think I said before that he was
01:32:29 before I think I said before that he was a cousin in fact he was close friends with Omar and Mohammed and the following passage makes that slightly clearer I woke up at about 10:00 a.m. on 13th of June I went to work at about 11:30 a.m.
01:32:40 June I went to work at about 11:30 a.m. I was supposed to go home at 8:00 p.m. but Mike my colleague and friend Omar al Khateeb requested that I stay with him until the shop closed at 2:00 a.m. I didn't have anything to do at home so I
01:32:51 didn't have anything to do at home so I stayed with him Mohammed on Omar's cousin Aseem al Ali came to the shop at 11:00 p.m. to accompany us we drank coffee at dessert and talked it
01:33:02 drank coffee at dessert and talked it was a really fun atmosphere and then at 26 he goes on to describe his experience on the 14th itself and this goes on for a number of paragraphs down to paragraph 40 but I want to read it all because it
01:33:14 40 but I want to read it all because it is its Detailers is important at around 1:00 at 1:10 a.m. SM received a call from Mohammed he looked at stress during the call and I was concerned that something terrible had happened he came
01:33:26 something terrible had happened he came back to the table in a very rushed way and Anna panic voice said there is a fire inside your building and hammered and Omar is still inside I wasn't sure what was happening I was thinking that they may be trapped that
01:33:37 thinking that they may be trapped that maybe the fire was inside our flat I thought that it was something dangerous I was worried about them I said no as another friend and I quickly nefesh shot and rushed to the flat we left within a
01:33:50 and rushed to the flat we left within a couple of minutes and as sin drove us to Grenville tower I called Mohammed while I was in the car he was scared panicking and asking for help he told me to do anything that I could do I called the
01:34:02 anything that I could do I called the fire brigade straightaway they told me that they were aware of the fire and were already there I think that these calls were made from either assemble masses mobile phones there is no record of me making them from my phone but I
01:34:14 of me making them from my phone but I definitely know that I made them while we were in the car and driving on the a40 I saw I saw the fire at the tower the color of the fire was orange flames with black and gray smoke the fire was
01:34:27 with black and gray smoke the fire was just on one side of the building and was on around 6 floors the fire was not on our side that was on the side next to us I had hope that Mohammed and Omar would be able to leave because the fire
01:34:38 be able to leave because the fire brigade were already on site and the fire was not directly on our side we reached the Grenfell area at approximately 1:45 a.m. we could not get anywhere near the tower with the car
01:34:49 anywhere near the tower with the car because the area was so busy so we drove to an area 5 minutes away from the tower I quickly got out of the car and ran towards grenfell Tower I left us him and Moses MO as they were still parking I
01:35:00 Moses MO as they were still parking I could see the fire blazing and as I got nearer the tower it was very hot the fire had got bigger and had spread since I first seen it when we were driving along the a40 I wanted to go inside to
01:35:14 along the a40 I wanted to go inside to see the situation and help my friends and other people I ran to the building from the Grenville Road entrance and I saw emergency services and around a hundred people who had gathered outside the tower I tried to get nearer the
01:35:26 the tower I tried to get nearer the tower but the police shouted at me to stay back I attached as an exhibit ma qk2 to the statement my telephone records for the 14th of June 2017 with
01:35:37 records for the 14th of June 2017 with Muhammad's number highlighted I called Mohammed on his number again at 1:56 a.m. while I was standing outside the building
01:35:44 building I told him to put his hand up and when I did I could see him the fire was about 30 meters away from where he was standing he told me that he and Omar were inside the flat and that they
01:35:55 were inside the flat and that they couldn't go outside because the hallway was filled with black smoke he told me to speak to the police and to get help I remember the words that he said to me in a very scared and desperate tone we are
01:36:07 a very scared and desperate tone we are dying inside in the name of Allah help us ask the police to send a helicopter anything we are dying this may be very sad worried scared and confused I went
01:36:18 sad worried scared and confused I went to the police straight away I told them that my flatmates were still inside the flat and needed help I asked them for advice as to what they should do if policeman told me to tell them to close the windows put towels under the front
01:36:30 the windows put towels under the front door and to stay inside I called Mohammed back at 2:00 a.m. to tell him this information he told me that the fire brigade had already come to his flat and told him and Oman to stay inside the flat he told me that
01:36:43 stay inside the flat he told me that they told him that they were coming soon to help him and that he should wait I tried to calm him down and to make him relaxed he was panicking I approached the police again because I was outside the police cordon and the police were
01:36:56 the police cordon and the police were the first point of contact for bystanders I asked them to help Mohammed and Omar the officer took notes asking asking me their floor flatten number and the number of people inside their flat at that time I think only Omar and
01:37:09 at that time I think only Omar and Mohammed were inside their flat the police kept telling me to tell him not to get out of the flat to put towels at the bottom of the doors and close all the doors I was telling the hammer to stay where he was I was just passing on
01:37:21 stay where he was I was just passing on the information that I was getting from the police they were getting information from the control room I trusted them thinking back now I would have told him to leave and ignore the stay-put advice
01:37:32 to leave and ignore the stay-put advice between 2:00 a.m. and to 46 a.m. I called Mohammed seven times to ask him if health had arrived each time he kept saying no that I could hear that he was getting more and more scared and
01:37:43 getting more and more scared and panicked during one of the phone calls I think at 2:36 a.m. he told me that he and Omar were hadn't were moved to flat 1 1/3 by firefighters and that they were
01:37:54 1 1/3 by firefighters and that they were there with 6 other people I thought that it was strange that they had just moved to another flat rather than being brought out to safety I could see that the fire was getting worse and was uncontrollable and that the safest place
01:38:05 uncontrollable and that the safest place for them would have been outside I was also seeing that other residents had managed to leave the flat so it was more than possible for my friends to leave - the fire was just getting worse and was
01:38:17 the fire was just getting worse and was spreading upwards it was on the side of the tower facing the gym the flames were orange and yellow in color it spread all the way up to the building and then moved left to the side that faces Grenfell Road which was the same side as
01:38:28 Grenfell Road which was the same side as our flat I was afraid for Muhammad and Ouma I thought that they were going to die and I was shocked I was getting even more worried because the fire was spreading I didn't know what to do in
01:38:40 spreading I didn't know what to do in one of the calls Muhammad asked me where the fire was he was scared that the fire was coming to his flat I didn't know what to tell him because I didn't want to scare him even more throughout the hours I was
01:38:52 even more throughout the hours I was standing outside Grenville tower I could see parts of the building falling all around from all sides of the block which were on fire the material which covered the outside of the building was burning and falling we were
01:39:03 building was burning and falling we were standing around 40 meters away from the building the police were pushing people further and further back I spoke to Muhammad again at 2:55 a.m. he told me he couldn't see Omar he was
01:39:17 he told me he couldn't see Omar he was crying I told him to shout out for Omer he told me that he is dying his voice was very low he also cried telling me not to tell his family about the fire he told me to tell his family that he loved
01:39:30 told me to tell his family that he loved them and to tell his mother to forgive him for any wrongs he may have done I had no words to say this was the most difficult conversation of my life I was crying inside and just broke down I did
01:39:43 crying inside and just broke down I did not want to show Muhammad but I was feeling inside so I told him to calm down and that he God willing would get out of the fire after every phone call I kept going back to telling them that
01:39:54 kept going back to telling them that friends my friends were still in the tower I kept going back to the police because they were the first point of contact for people at 3:19 a.m. I spoke to Muhammad for the last time I told him
01:40:06 to Muhammad for the last time I told him to leave the flat and to run down the stairs he said can't leave there is a mother and child with me how can I leave them he told me that there were eight of them before inside flat one one three but now there
01:40:19 inside flat one one three but now there was only four he told me to tell the fire brigade to keep hosing flat one one three with water I went to the police and told them what Mohammed had told me they just said okay and then they would
01:40:31 they just said okay and then they would inform the control room 10 minutes after I'd spoken to Mohammed I got a call from another friend Adnan who told me that Omar was outside I was relieved but also confused
01:40:41 confused I had just spoken to Mohammed and he was still inside I asked Edmund where they were and I made my way to them and while I was sitting next to a tree near Latimer Road underground station I ran
01:40:54 Latimer Road underground station I ran towards Omar his face was black from the smoke and he was wearing an oxygen mask Hashem and Adnan were with him my was inside the police cordon and the police didn't let me go inside the cordon Roma thank God
01:41:07 me go inside the cordon Roma thank God your fine home all looked very distressed he was crying and was very angry he was coughing was finding it difficult to speak because of the smoke he knew that Mohammed was still inside I remember that he called Mohammed while
01:41:19 remember that he called Mohammed while he was outside and told him to leave and not to listen to the fire brigade I remember him saying just leave you could do it it isn't that difficult I went back to the place that I've been
01:41:30 back to the place that I've been standing on Grenville Road I was trying to ask the police for help I kept going back to them telling them that there were people still trapped in flat one one three they told me they would send a request to the control room many of the people had gathered outside
01:41:42 many of the people had gathered outside we're very angry at the police and the emergency services they did not give people any information I recall someone shouting why are you not helping people it's been four hours and the fire is still blazing the fire had spread even
01:41:55 still blazing the fire had spread even more and the smoke was getting thicker but Mohammed was still not getting help I was really worried about my friend I kept going back to the police to put pressure on them to do something but there was no help they kept telling me
01:42:06 there was no help they kept telling me that requests would be made to the control room between 426 and 505 am I called Mohammed eight times the phone wasn't ringing it was just going to voicemail I thought that it was over I
01:42:18 voicemail I thought that it was over I lost hope that he was going to make it I thought that he had burnt all that the smoke made it difficult for him to breathe then around 5:00 a.m. I saw a male Alberta fee Mohammed's
01:42:29 saw a male Alberta fee Mohammed's fiancee outside she was crying and asked me why I hadn't told her about the fire I tried to calm her down we'll say I was told that Omar had been taken to King's College Hospital by an ambulance because
01:42:41 College Hospital by an ambulance because he was coughing at this point I could see the whole tower was on fire I could hear the fire I could hear the fire burning and the noise from the bits of the falling building I sat down I was
01:42:53 the falling building I sat down I was completely shocked at what was happening I had just seen Mohamed the morning before the hours went by so quick I didn't know what was going on I just froze I put my head down watching the fire and hearing Mohamed on the phone
01:43:06 fire and hearing Mohamed on the phone being so scared maybe very upset I've never seen anything like that before I didn't cry because I couldn't cry I had to keep strong because his fiance and his cousin were there I did not want
01:43:17 and his cousin were there I did not want to upset them even further I cried a month later when everything just came back to me until now I still remember everything he said to me over the phone that night I stayed outside the fire tower until approximately 9:00 a.m.
01:43:29 tower until approximately 9:00 a.m. Mohamed still didn't come out
01:43:38 the statement rest of the statement will stand of course yes in its entirety as evidence to the inquiry mr. chairman the next statement that I'd like to read
01:43:51 next statement that I'd like to read into the record is the statement of a male who typhi herself the fiance of Muhammad Al Houla hajjali it's dated the 3rd of June 2018 and it's at iws con to
01:44:03 3rd of June 2018 and it's at iws con to pool 0 6:30 7:00 this morning mr. chairman we heard the evidence of Omar al hajar knee his brother Mohammed
01:44:15 al hajar knee his brother Mohammed passed away in the fire and as I say this is the statement of his fiance they'd met in 2015 and they'd begun a relationship and she explains in her statement that they had discussed
01:44:27 statement that they had discussed marriage soon after meeting and Mohamed was traditional in that way as she says she was with Mohamed until 8:30 p.m. on the night of the 13th of June the night
01:44:38 the night of the 13th of June the night or the evening before the fire she received a message from him around 12:10 a.m. when he told her that he had returned home to the tower we can pick
01:44:50 returned home to the tower we can pick that up if we can at paragraph 12
01:44:56 I'll pick heat up the paragraph 12 she she says there
01:45:09 she says there I'm sorry paragraph 20 I was with Mohammed on the 13th of June 2010 around 8:30 p.m. I was on the bus with him going home I went home to make some food and break my fast he told me that he was
01:45:21 and break my fast he told me that he was going to see a Syrian family with his brother Omar and his cousin to break his fast that was the last time I saw him I have a message on my phone from him which was sent at 9 p.m. which says that
01:45:32 which was sent at 9 p.m. which says that he was on his way to breakfast sorry on his way to break fast we were messaging back and forth after this and we spoke on the phone as well at 12:10 a.m. he sent me a message to say that he
01:45:43 a.m. he sent me a message to say that he was now back at home I was already in bed asleep so I didn't read this I was asleep through the fire so I didn't know what was happening my phone was on silent so I didn't wake up when people were calling me I woke up between 5 a.m.
01:45:56 were calling me I woke up between 5 a.m. and 6 a.m. and saw that I'd missed calls on my phone from people the calls were made to me at around 3 a.m. I answered a call from the woman who was with Omar at the tower she said to me don't panic but there has been a fire Omar is ok but
01:46:09 there has been a fire Omar is ok but he's going to hospital but we can't find Mohamed she told me not to panic and said she would come and get me in her car I waited for her to come and get me but she called me and told me she couldn't get to my house because of the
01:46:21 couldn't get to my house because of the traffic in the roads being closed I left my house in my pajamas I just put a scarf on and left I got on a bus but the bus only took me a couple of stops because the road ran Ladbroke Grove were closed I got off the bus and I ran to
01:46:33 closed I got off the bus and I ran to the tower I could see the smoke in the sky in my mind I was thinking it won't be that bad come on we're living in Britain I thought to myself that it's such a huge block of flats there's no way he didn't get out I thought that if
01:46:45 way he didn't get out I thought that if there was a fire at the top or at the bottom of the tower then he would have gotten out because he's in the middle on the 14th floor I was picturing a fire in a flat I didn't imagine that the fire had spread and the whole tower had been
01:46:56 had spread and the whole tower had been on fire I was running and as I got closer to the tower I could see that there was police everywhere and there were more and more people looking up I wanted to get to the entrance
01:47:07 wanted to get to the entrance of the tower to see if Mohammed was there if he was still in the tower I wanted to be there as he came out so he would see me I saw there was a police cordon and a tape so I couldn't get to the front of the tower the police kept
01:47:19 the front of the tower the police kept stopping me getting in getting any closer I went around and around the tower trying to get closer but I couldn't get any closer because of the police I tried for such a long time as I was approaching the tower I could see
01:47:30 was approaching the tower I could see the smoke in the air and could smell the burning I can't describe how it smelled but the smoke and smell was so bad I was so tired because I was fasting and there was so much heat I think that it was
01:47:42 was so much heat I think that it was heat from the tower there was ash falling next to my feet even though it was quite a way back from the tower I could see bits of black on the floor when I saw the tower for the first time I was shocked it was black I didn't
01:47:53 I was shocked it was black I didn't think it would be like that the most I thought would be a floors on fire it was like a movie it was so surreal there were so many people there and so much media the helicopter was in the sky above the tower I felt like I was
01:48:05 above the tower I felt like I was dreaming or I was in a movie I was shocked
01:48:07 shocked it looked like a war zone it was crazy there were children in their uniform sitting on the ground people were crying I saw so many volunteers running around handing out water to people I got in
01:48:20 handing out water to people I got in contact with Hashem and Mahmud who were both in the tower looking for Mohammed it was difficult to find them there were so many people and so many places blocked off the police were everywhere and residents were all over the floor it was really hard to
01:48:31 over the floor it was really hard to find the two of them I eventually found them both and I was so tired from looking for them and Muhammad we started looking for him together every time we ask people around where we could find him and and that he was missing people
01:48:44 him and and that he was missing people told us to register his name in different places around the area we went to refuge stops to write his name down on a list we asked the police about the hospitals the residents have been taken to but the police would not give us any information I was crying I was really
01:48:57 information I was crying I was really distressed we were running all around to see if anyone had seen him no one was helping us my sister and my friend came to the area to help me look for Muhammad they told me to cover my mouth because the smoke and the smell coming from the
01:49:09 the smoke and the smell coming from the tower was so bad and they were concerned about me and hailing it and the damage it could do if I did
01:49:24 can I just read all save paragraphs 11 and 16 and 17 paragraph 11 she says the
01:49:35 and 16 and 17 paragraph 11 she says the lifts were often out of order Muhammad Muhammad would get worried about me using them because he was worried that I might get trapped in there he didn't think that they were safe to use every time I went to see him he would come out of his flat and get into the lift into
01:49:46 of his flat and get into the lift into the ground floor to meet me and we would get in the lift together and then a paragraph 16 and 17 she says I don't know whether Muhammad's front door automatically closed I think it did I
01:49:58 automatically closed I think it did I don't recall there being issues with the front door to the flat I'd seen the workmen come to fix the entrance door to Grenfell tower I never heard a fire alarm go off in Muhammad's flat or in the tower itself I don't remember seeing
01:50:09 the tower itself I don't remember seeing the fire alarms in the corridors I don't remember if Mohammed had firearms in the flat itself I don't remember there being any fires when Muhammad lived there where I lived we had signs on the walls about what to do where there is a fire
01:50:20 about what to do where there is a fire and we had fire extinguishers in the building but in Grenville tower I don't remember seeing a fire extinguisher in the building or signs up with what to do in a fire and as I say mr. chairman as
01:50:38 in a fire and as I say mr. chairman as with all these witness statements the entirety of that statement will stand in the record to be taken into account by the inquiry in its deliberations the next witness statement I'd like to read
01:50:51 next witness statement I'd like to read into the record is that of francis dean who is a friend of zion Abdeen his statement is iws one zero four eight and
01:51:03 statement is iws one zero four eight and it includes fd1 an exhibit which has screenshots of phone calls made the statement of truth was dated the 28th of august 2018 and is at page 9 of the
01:51:16 august 2018 and is at page 9 of the statement together with his signature he had known Zion Abdeen since 2015 and were close friends they're not related
01:51:28 were close friends they're not related the name is coincidental and she initially employed him to do a decorating job for her as he explains he describes her his sister although as I say they're not
01:51:40 his sister although as I say they're not related on the night of the 13th of June 2017 mr. Dean had given Zion have a lift back to Grenfell town and they got there around 9:30 to 10:00 p.m. he spent time with her and her son Jeremiah before
01:51:52 with her and her son Jeremiah before leaving to go home for the night so I never then called mr. Dean at 1:38 a.m. and told him there was a fire in the tower and he made a 999 call straight
01:52:03 tower and he made a 999 call straight after that to report the incident and can I pick it up at paragraph 20 and I'll read first of all to 25 he says at
01:52:14 I'll read first of all to 25 he says at paragraph 20 I got to the tower around 2:00 a.m. and ran towards the building I called Zion out back at a to a OTO 3 a.m. to identify where she was she told
01:52:26 a.m. to identify where she was she told me she was still inside the tower in flat 1 1 3 I called 999 again and at 2:05 a.m. but I couldn't get through as the phone kept ringing at o2 12:00 a.m. a fire-control
01:52:37 ringing at o2 12:00 a.m. a fire-control operator called me back I missed their initial call but I called them back and they told me that they were only speaking to people who are inside the building and people inside should call 999 I've until 244 a.m. I was on the phone
01:52:50 I've until 244 a.m. I was on the phone on and off woods I nap a total of 10 calls I was running around trying to speak with the authorities to communicate where zone I was and therefore we had multiple exchanges of calls during my telephone calls with her
01:53:03 calls during my telephone calls with her she said that firefighters had moved her to flat one on three on the opposite side of her floor that was Ali's flat he escaped from the 14th floor I told her to get out now
01:53:19 and then I will actually read a little bit further on in this if I may sometime around 3 a.m. I remember taking a video I recall recording the tower for about 30 seconds before wondering why I was
01:53:31 30 seconds before wondering why I was filming I considered how I could try and gain access to the tower to save zone AB and Jeremiah I remember hearing a man trying to get to someone on the 22nd or 23rd floor standing of the cordon I was
01:53:44 23rd floor standing of the cordon I was shouting to the police to tell them she's in floor 14 flat 1 1 3 the police confirmed the flat number and asked me what floor I replied that we've got a young child in there and they're suffocating she informed me that
01:53:55 suffocating she informed me that Jeremiah had collapsed and I told her to get some wet blankets to cover them around him and to cover herself I told her to run but she said that the smoke was too much I don't know why they told her to stay inside the flat and then at
01:54:10 her to stay inside the flat and then at paragraph 32 he says that around 3:17 a.m. I called my duty manager to tell him that I'm not going to come in to work tomorrow at the same time I was running to try to gain access into the
01:54:21 running to try to gain access into the building to rescue sine AB and Jeremiah I ran around the back of the building as from when I was doing the painting of decorating a sign ABS flat I recall there's another entrance on the other side of the law center I jumped over
01:54:34 side of the law center I jumped over fences of other flats and a few gates and I managed to get to the stairs on the outside of the building which is the top entrance to the tower at that point I looked up and the fire seemed that it was at its peak you could feel the heat
01:54:46 was at its peak you could feel the heat something flew out over me I think it was a body things were just flying out I could hear screams and I could hit gasping for air they were shouting help help the kids were screaming
01:54:57 help the kids were screaming the noise haunts me I could hear the noise of the helicopters and see the smoke above me I was screaming I was on the phone to sign AB she was crying she was screaming and she was helpless I
01:55:08 was screaming and she was helpless I told her that I was coming to get her I came down and tried to enter but I was refused entry the firefighters were asking me to get away due to falling debris and he describes further attempts
01:55:21 debris and he describes further attempts at entrance into the building and then at 39 he starts the description of his circumstances surrounding his call with it was designer who wears own dad
01:55:34 with it was designer who wears own dad speaks to the firefighter I was near the basement getting frustrated and kicking around the bin and some bottles and I noticed a fireman sitting on the floor to my right and they were marking on the whiteboard they were exhausted and they
01:55:45 whiteboard they were exhausted and they couldn't fight it I told them she was on the 14th floor in flat one one three I gave the firefighter my phone and I asked him to speak to zine ad I said it's my girl or my baby and she's
01:55:56 it's my girl or my baby and she's trapped up there on the 14th floor I told them that they have been moved flat one one three I thought that they were going to get her out and that is why they prevented me from entering the tower the firemen I think his name was
01:56:08 tower the firemen I think his name was Chris battledore said designer lay down low lay down flat we're coming to get you so I expected that he spoke to her for over an hour that I thought they were going to rescue
01:56:19 that I thought they were going to rescue her but the fire was getting bigger and bigger you could see the fire growing the red flames the yellow flames I was waiting for people to come out of the building whilst the firefighter was focused on Zainab I could hear him
01:56:31 focused on Zainab I could hear him telling her to stay low and you could hear every now and then a boom from the building I didn't see more than about five to ten people come out of the building since he had my phone she never
01:56:43 building since he had my phone she never came out of the flat and when the fire gave me back my phone it was daylight when he gave me back when he gave me the phone back he told me the phone had died so I ended the call as when I put it to
01:56:55 so I ended the call as when I put it to my ear the phone went silent I then called her back and the phone went to voicemail this was sometime after 5:00 a.m. I just thought the phone had died I was not 100% sure that she had died but
01:57:08 was not 100% sure that she had died but I suspected from the call that she did not make it there was still some hope in me that she was still alive I recall leaning against the fence and he told me to walk with him to the
01:57:20 and he told me to walk with him to the fire rescue van I did suspect something had happened the fireman asked me to write down my name and phone number and Zion absent Jeremiah's name on a piece of paper
01:57:34 mr. Chanin that is all I think I need to read from mr. Dean's statement his
01:57:46 read from mr. Dean's statement his statement will be taken into account in its entirety in the usual way I'm reminded from behind me that there are also two further exhibits F D 2 and F D 3 which I shall just mention into the record I WS quadruple 0 1 double 0 4 + 1
01:58:02 record I WS quadruple 0 1 double 0 4 + 1 double 0 5 those are two videos which are exhibited - his statements alright thank you the next witness statement that I'm going to read is that of mr.
01:58:15 that I'm going to read is that of mr. Timothy Murphy he is a relative of Dennis Murphy the reference to that statement is I WS quadruple zero one zero four nine it's dated and signed on
01:58:30 zero four nine it's dated and signed on the 18th of August 2018 the statement of truth and signature are on page three
01:58:38 and he is mr. Murphy's brother as he explains in paragraph two he'd had a number of telephone calls with his
01:58:49 number of telephone calls with his brother in the early hours of the 14th of June 2017 after his wife had woken him up because she'd seen some missed calls and voice mail notifications on her telephone and throughout the night
01:59:00 her telephone and throughout the night Timothy Murphy and other family members attempted to find out what was going on with Dennis and some members attended Granville itself to try to help him just picking it up if I can at paragraphs
01:59:12 picking it up if I can at paragraphs four to six he says I woke up immediately listened to the voicemail message the straightaway found Dennis by this time I think it was around 1:30 6:00 a.m. Dennis answered immediately I
01:59:23 6:00 a.m. Dennis answered immediately I could hear in his voice that he was distressed and in a state of panic he told me that the flats were on fire initially I thought the fire was in Dennis's flat and one of the first things I said to him was den get to the
01:59:34 things I said to him was den get to the window and get some air I was concerned for Dennis's physical health as he had emphysema then said to me that he could not go to the window as that was where all the smoke was piling in from
01:59:45 all the smoke was piling in from I then told him to get out of the flat I have a memory of him going to the door as I heard him opening it but as quickly as I heard it open I heard him shut it he then said to me that it was pitch
01:59:56 he then said to me that it was pitch black out in the lobby and that smoke was coming into the flat I could hear the alarm ringing throughout my call with denne denne was coughing I was worried about him I told him to go into
02:00:07 worried about him I told him to go into a bar the bathroom get towels wet them and put them around the door and make a tent for himself with the wet towels I then told him that I was going to call the emergency services 999 and I said to him not to use his phone or answer it
02:00:18 him not to use his phone or answer it until I phoned him back because I would fail him again once I had spoken with the 999 emergency services I then called 999 and told them about the fire and gave details about Denis to them
02:00:29 Denis to them I made the 999 call and around 146 a.m. I remember telling them that Denis had breathing problems I immediately phoned Dennis after this call to let him know
02:00:40 Dennis after this call to let him know that help was on the way I reassured him at that time I was not really sure of the severity of the fire or indeed whether it was in Dennis's flat or in the entire block and like all the others
02:00:56 the entire block and like all the others mr. chairman mr. Murphy statement will stand as evidence in its entirety to the inquiry where we take into into account the next statement I would wish to read
02:01:08 the next statement I would wish to read into the record is the statement of Ann Murphy she is the sister of Dennis and Timothy Murphy that she was awoken at about 1:45 on the 13th of June by family
02:01:22 about 1:45 on the 13th of June by family members telling her that there had been a fire at Dennis's building and she went to Grenfell tower with her partner and her nephew Peter Murphy who's also given a statement which I shall also read into
02:01:33 a statement which I shall also read into the record shortly and Dennis his former partner Tracey the statement itself is under iws Quinn to quadruple 0 1 0 1 7
02:01:44 under iws Quinn to quadruple 0 1 0 1 7 dated the first of July 2018 and there is a statement of truth in paragraph 1 and a signature on page 6
02:02:00 and there's also a statement of truth on page six as well a paragraph that 10 she picks up the story when they were in the
02:02:13 picks up the story when they were in the car I'll just read three paragraphs 10 to 12 as soon as we were all in the car I guess it was around 2:30 a.m. by this time I called Dennis his mobile phone as
02:02:24 time I called Dennis his mobile phone as soon as he answered the phone I could hear he was struggling with his breathing
02:02:27 breathing Dennis lived with emphysema so he struggled with breathing anyway I said to him it's me eh you okay he said no sis I'm not I'm trapped and I cannot breathe I told him to stay calm
02:02:38 cannot breathe I told him to stay calm to cover his face with something wet and to lie on the floor as there was more oxygen there but I told him we were on our way to him I could hear a woman's voice in the background shouting that an ambulance was needed I then asked him
02:02:49 ambulance was needed I then asked him where he was and he said that he was in a neighbor's flat I was distressed at this point and handed the phone to Peter to speak to his dad Peter was very upset and said to his dad that we were on our
02:03:00 and said to his dad that we were on our way to him and that he was to listen to what I had to do what he was to listen to what I had told him to do we got there
02:03:07 there at 3 a.m. and it was complete pandemonium as soon as I saw the building I was utterly intentionally horrified and my heart sank deep inside of me we could not get near the tower block itself and he had to park by a van
02:03:20 block itself and he had to park by a van Daele Park Peter jumped out of the car and ran off I got out of the car and as I started to walk towards the tower I saw a policeman and I said to him my brother is in there on the 14th floor police can you find
02:03:31 on the 14th floor police can you find out if they've got him out I was really upset and the policemen have phoned through to someone and then said to us there's a glimmer of hope the firemen have reached the 20th floor he's farman are not assigned to your
02:03:42 he's farman are not assigned to your brother's floor but they reached the 20th so there is hope that they reached a 14th floor and got him out I remember getting very upset and distressed at the same as at the same time I ever heard on the officers radio that they were using
02:03:53 the officers radio that they were using the leisure centre as a morgue so I knew then that some people had died we continued walking towards the tower and we reached then reached the cordon people were everywhere the whole scene
02:04:05 people were everywhere the whole scene was crazy people were crying some screaming some silent I could see people in the windows of the tower Blagh we ever heard people saying that people have jumped from the burning tower debris was coming down from the
02:04:16 tower debris was coming down from the building the fire was raging very high up the building the fire was more on the right-hand side from where we were standing it was like somebody had put a flame to a tissue and the fire was rising very quickly I could
02:04:28 the fire was rising very quickly I could see that the fire had reached Dennis's flat the whole tower block was going up like a tinderbox a firefighter actually asked my partner Brian to check in his pocket to see if he had a bunch of keys in there as he couldn't check himself
02:04:39 in there as he couldn't check himself because he was carrying equipment Brian put his hand in the firefighters pocket and told him there was a bunch of keys firefighter asked him to leave them in his pocket we were so distressed and then got worried about where were Peter and his
02:04:52 worried about where were Peter and his mum Tracy who'd gone gone to look for him after he'd jumped out of the car when we arrived Tracy apart from being Dennis's ex-wife she's also my close friend and remained a close friend of Dennis's My partner Brian then phoned them to see where they
02:05:04 Brian then phoned them to see where they were and we agreed to meet them back where we parked the car and like the other statements mr. chairman and Murphy stated but also stand in the record
02:05:15 stated but also stand in the record have you taken into account in its entirety thank you the final statement I wish to read into the record this afternoon is that of mr. Peter Murphy he is Dennis his son and
02:05:31 Peter Murphy he is Dennis his son and his statement is under the reference iws Quinn tuple 0 6 7 5 it was signed on the 25th of May 2018 on page 6 is a
02:05:42 25th of May 2018 on page 6 is a signature and a statement of truth Peter Murphy was the only son of Dennis Murphy and as you know Dennis had lived in flat
02:05:55 and as you know Dennis had lived in flat one-one-one since the 1990s and growing up Peter Murphy had spent weekends living with his father at that address and continued to visit his father regularly up until June 2017 it's also
02:06:07 regularly up until June 2017 it's also right to say that Dennis is Burt dennis Murphy's mother Peters Peters grandmother Dennis's mother Peters grandma that also lived locally to the tower and I just want to pick it up if I can at paragraphs 7 & 8 first of
02:06:19 up if I can at paragraphs 7 & 8 first of all
02:06:26 and seven I just I'll just identify his expresses mr. Murphy's frustrations with the refurb and then at eight on page
02:06:39 the refurb and then at eight on page three at the top of the page he said he had arthritis and more often than not during the works to Grenfell only one lift would be working making it very difficult for people like him to get in and out of the building when the works
02:06:50 and out of the building when the works were completed he would have to come out of the building via the walkway level rather than the street level he did not like the new entrance system that you had to use to access the building you only had ten seconds to get through two
02:07:01 only had ten seconds to get through two doors before you got to the lifts otherwise you were trapped until someone came when my nan would come to Grenfell to visit dad he would always come down to meet her because she would not have been able to get into the building and
02:07:12 been able to get into the building and to the lifts within the ten seconds and then at paragraph 12 just a point on the
02:07:24 then at paragraph 12 just a point on the doors he says my dad's flat was a one-bedroom flat his front door was painted blue with a knocker it looked like a wooden door but once you open the door you could see it had a PVC interior he did not always have that door before
02:07:35 he did not always have that door before it used to be a plain solid fire door and then at paragraphs 14 to 17 he gives his account of his recollection of the
02:07:47 his account of his recollection of the main part of his recollection of the night I was woken up by my mum at around 2:00 a.m. she said my aunt Anne had called her and said there was a fire in my dad's flat and we needed to go over so I got up and got ready mum said Uncle
02:08:00 so I got up and got ready mum said Uncle Tim my dad's brother had called on town to tell her that he had spoken to dad who told him there was a fire in the tower and it was serious my aunt Anna and her partner my uncle Brian came to our house in their car and their mum and I joined them in their
02:08:12 and their mum and I joined them in their car and drove over to Grenville as we were driving over to the town my aren't rang my dad I think it was about 2:30 a.m. but cannot really be sure of the time I could tell by her voice that my dad was not well my aunt was telling him
02:08:24 dad was not well my aunt was telling him to put a wet flannel over his face she also asked him where he was he said he was in a neighbour's flat dan was in a panicky state as she passed the phone to me I remember him saying to me Boise
02:08:36 to me I remember him saying to me Boise Boise I can't breathe I'm stuck I cannot get out I do not know what to do I do not know what to do Boise was my dad's pet name for me he called me that for as long as I can remember I told him to do
02:08:49 long as I can remember I told him to do his aunt Ann had asked him but a wet flannel over your face I was really upset at this point I could hear him coughing and people screaming and someone saying we need an ambulance and now believe it was I nabbed Dean
02:09:00 and now believe it was I nabbed Dean saying I need an ambulance this was the very first time and indeed the last time that I heard my dad so scared I said to him dad we're coming to get you right now please put the flannel on your face
02:09:13 now please put the flannel on your face to help your breathing that was my last conversation with my dad although I did not think at the time it was to be my last conversation when I compose myself I tried phoning him again his phone just
02:09:24 I tried phoning him again his phone just kept ringing he didn't ringing out he did not pick up we got to the tower at around 3 a.m. we turned down Wilson Street we saw the
02:09:35 turned down Wilson Street we saw the tower on fire I jumped out of the car the fire was more pronounced on the right side of the tower I ran to where the cordon was there were a number of fire engines already there at that stage they were putting up
02:09:46 at that stage they were putting up equipment the firefighters were walking to the tower as the road was narrow and all backed up so one had to walk up the road to get to the tower the scene was chaotic there were lots of people around some on their phones talking and
02:09:57 some on their phones talking and videoing some just stood watching there were people screaming and I remember a buzz of what I would think was a helicopter above us there was stuff floating off the tower and landing on cars the smell was awful my eyes were
02:10:09 cars the smell was awful my eyes were stinging from the heat there were sirens blasting out flashing lights the heat was immense at the cordon there were three or four police officers at the front I had to wait my turn to speak
02:10:21 front I had to wait my turn to speak with one of them I told them that my dad was on the 14th floor I did not have the flat number but he was in a neighbor's flat on that floor and was struggling to breathe the police officer told me that
02:10:32 breathe the police officer told me that they I presume he meant the firefighters that they had got to the 20th floor and that people were being brought down we're going up by ambulance to Clarendon Road and he told me to take myself down there as my dad may be there I started
02:10:44 there as my dad may be there I started to walk to Clarendon at this time my mum had found me with my mum I then spoke to another officer asking him about my dad telling him what floor he lived on and where he was the officer said he was going to find out
02:10:56 officer said he was going to find out for me speak with the doctor but he did not get back to me there was no order amongst the emergency services nobody seemed to be in control and then you continue to read on but the further
02:11:07 continue to read on but the further calls and and what happened afterwards again mr. chairman that statement the statement of Peter Murphy Dennis's son
02:11:18 statement of Peter Murphy Dennis's son would stand in its entirety as evidence in the record for the inquiry to take into account before they were originally scheduled to further statements to read this afternoon that for the Assad
02:11:31 this afternoon that for the Assad al-assad's Zahra and Ahmed Al Asad I've been asked by their RL ours not to read those into the record today and I will not do say but I have to be able to do
02:11:42 not do say but I have to be able to do say in due course so that the statements that to be read today it does well at that point I think it right that I should record my thanks and indeed the
02:11:53 should record my thanks and indeed the effects of all those concerned to all those people who've taken the time and trouble to make statements I do want to assure them that they that the evidence is very valuable and it will form part
02:12:05 is very valuable and it will form part of the inquiries record and it be treated just as much as evidence as the evidence of those who have been called to give their testimony in person so thank you very much those of you who
02:12:17 thank you very much those of you who made these statements which we've now heard read out yes thank you mr. Sheva thank you and that concludes the inquiries business for the day right and we will start again tomorrow morning with our next oral witness
02:12:32 good well thank you very much mr. millet um we'll break now and resume at 10 o'clock tomorrow
02:12:41 thank you very much 10 o'clock tomorrow