Jose Piero Vieira, a long-term resident of Flat 46 (7th floor), provides evidence about window defects and his family's escape experience.
00:00:17 yes just a minute mr. chairman we now call our next witness to give evidence mr. Jose Yero good thank you
00:00:48 I swear by Almighty God I swear by Almighty God that the evidence I shall give the evidence I shall give to be the truth
00:01:04 thank you very much mr. Vieira would you like to sit down make yourself comfortable thank you yes mr. millet
00:01:17 comfortable thank you yes mr. millet Thank You mr. chairman mr. Vieira can I ask you please to give the chairman your full name it's kosher Piero no Sophie all right and can I start by thanking you very
00:01:28 and can I start by thanking you very much for coming here today to give evidence to the inquiry it is immensely important that we hear from you and we're very grateful to you for your assistance if at any time you need a
00:01:39 assistance if at any time you need a break from giving evidence or you find it all too much then please just say and we can take a break at any time it's not a problem and there's no rush if I if I
00:01:51 a problem and there's no rush if I if I questions are you find my question is difficult to understand or you can't hear them I'm very happy to repeat the question we'll put the question in a different way so just say again there's
00:02:02 different way so just say again there's no problem okay and sometimes sometimes when you're answering I may be looking at the screen or at my notes but I will be still listening to what you've got to tell us because of course it's extremely
00:02:13 tell us because of course it's extremely important and I start then by showing you your statement your witness statement to the inquiry which is iws quadruple 0 1 1 2 2 and that is page 1
00:02:27 quadruple 0 1 1 2 2 and that is page 1 of your statement and it's best to you can either look at it on the monitor in front of you on your on your desk or at the screen at the back of the room if you turn please to page 14 you can see a
00:02:40 you turn please to page 14 you can see a date at the bottom 12th of October 2018 and a signature there is that your signature yes have you had an opportunity to read this statement recently yes I have and can you confirm
00:02:51 recently yes I have and can you confirm for the Chairman that its contents are true yes thank you mr. chairman there are no exhibits to this statement to put into the record right thank you very much okay to begin
00:03:02 right thank you very much okay to begin mr. Vieira if I can by asking you a number of just background questions first of all and you lived at flat 46 gets you a grenfell town and that's on the seventh floor yes yes when did you
00:03:16 the seventh floor yes yes when did you first move into Grenfell tower and March 9th of 76 76 so you at the time of the fire you've been living in Grandville
00:03:27 fire you've been living in Grandville tower for about 41 years yes and I think it's right that you raised your three children in your flat at groennfell tower yes who lived in flat 46 with you
00:03:41 tower yes who lived in flat 46 with you in June 2017 my wife might not die on me
00:03:50 and did you rent or did you own flat four trends you rented it and do you remember who you rented it from from the council catchment or on Chelsea yes and
00:04:03 council catchment or on Chelsea yes and um your your daughter at the time was she an adult yes she was living with you and with which bedroom should did she occupy second bedroom that you're going
00:04:20 yes I see we'll look at the plan shortly and before I turn to the events of the night of the 13th and 14th of June 2017 I just want to ask you some questions
00:04:32 I just want to ask you some questions about windows in your flat can I ask you please to go to page 12 of your statement and turn to paragraph 52
00:04:46 you could see that the on that page there mr. Vieira Reza is a heading Windows and you described paragraphs 52 to 55 all down page 12 your experiences
00:05:00 to 55 all down page 12 your experiences with the windows and how they were replaced and at paragraph 53 you say I
00:05:11 replaced and at paragraph 53 you say I was in the flat when the windows were installed then you go on to say then in the third line the new windows were
00:05:22 the third line the new windows were installed 10 centimeters further out from the wall of the flat than the location of the old windows there was also a very big window sill I recall that despite the distance between the
00:05:33 that despite the distance between the walls of the flat and the windows the windows themselves were noticeably smaller than the old windows they were replacing and then you say I noticed that there was a gap a two to three inch gap between the edge of the window and
00:05:46 gap between the edge of the window and the wall of the building was that the case well which which windows are you referring to there in the flat Halloween
00:05:58 referring to there in the flat Halloween us all of them and when you refer to the edge of the window can you describe which edge it is it was in both sides of
00:06:11 which edge it is it was in both sides of the window and the outside between the day the previous wall on the Denese clad in the report
00:06:25 and the two to three inch gap was that a gap which faced you as you look at the
00:06:36 gap which faced you as you look at the window from the inside or was it to the side parallel with the the the wall he was a gap in both sides of the window as
00:06:48 was a gap in both sides of the window as you look at the window and between the old window and the new window as well and the outside okay you then say I to fill that gap the window
00:07:01 say I to fill that gap the window contractors use thick sheets of a white foamy material I would describe it as being very similar to polystyrene but I cannot recall much more about the material that they used I did not recall
00:07:15 material that they used I did not recall observing the installation of my kitchen window but on all of the windows I did see being installed this material was used first of all mr. Vieira which windows in your flat did you see being
00:07:26 windows in your flat did you see being replaced
00:07:28 replaced the two bedrooms and the living room okay
00:07:32 okay so all of them except the kitchen yes thank you
00:07:37 thank you and should I understand that the gaps that you are describing you saw that during the course of the work going on well I noticed that they dange even
00:07:50 well I noticed that they dange even before that because they the frames for the window they were fitted before yeah and then I I knew that the windows they are going to be smaller the ones because
00:08:04 are going to be smaller the ones because I can see it was a piece in each side from the frames in the outside and the framing from the old windows now when
00:08:15 framing from the old windows now when you say in your statement a paragraph 53 to fill that gap the window contractors used thick sheets of a white firming material did you did they did they do
00:08:27 material did you did they did they do that did they fill the gap because you asked them to or did they do that anyway no no they lured I didn't ask them to do anything and then paragraph 54 you go on to say after
00:08:42 then paragraph 54 you go on to say after the windows will replace obsessor after the installation of the new windows I noticed that there was a breeze coming into the flat from underneath all of the windows and then you say I complained to
00:08:55 windows and then you say I complained to this about the window to the window installers themselves and can you tell us exactly where the breeze was coming from from underneath the window they
00:09:06 from from underneath the window they jacilla
00:09:07 jacilla and they need the seal they press it in top of the the the old shield but underneath of it the window the chemists in okay no the window itself he was
00:09:20 in okay no the window itself he was underneath the sill of the window underneath the sill and was that was that say was that true in respect of all of the windows in your flat some of them they were more than the other but most
00:09:31 they were more than the other but most of them they have some a kind of draft coming right was the draft forceful was it strong or strong but you can notice
00:09:42 it strong or strong but you can notice especially when when it was cold you can see the breeze coming and he was called right do you remember which window let in the most breeze property was my
00:09:58 in the most breeze property was my daughter's bedroom and one of them in the in the living room just say we can be absolutely clear can I ask you to be shown the plan of the flat please which
00:10:11 shown the plan of the flat please which is M et triple zero one two five nine three at page 12 now I should just be clear as to the arrow this is a a plan diagram of grand felt our on the fourth
00:10:24 diagram of grand felt our on the fourth floor as you can see because it refers to flat 16 in the top right which we know is on the fourth floor but the design and layout of each floor above
00:10:35 design and layout of each floor above the fourth floor is the same and your your flat would have been you above flat 16 in the north east corner
00:10:47 above flat 16 in the north east corner is that right yes I am when I say immediately above splat 16 some floors above it three floors above it and was the layout of your flat the same as we
00:11:00 the layout of your flat the same as we can see here on the diagram on the plan
00:11:07 yes and so which bedroom did you occupy the first bedroom as you're going just in front on the main door I say the bedroom to the the one of the
00:11:19 I say the bedroom to the the one of the to the bedroom on the left yes did your daughter occupy the one on the right
00:11:36 yes yes
00:11:40 say the windows that let in the most breeze you think were the window to to the second bedroom the one on the right and the windows round the living room of
00:11:51 and the windows round the living room of the windows round the living room which were the windows that let in the most breeze do you remember yes was the one in the in the corner facing north facing
00:12:04 in the in the corner facing north facing north okay so just to the left of the corner column is that right if you look at the plan just to the left just of the
00:12:16 at the plan just to the left just of the corner column yes one second yes of course take your time
00:12:49 it's because from my position that the flat number six he doesn't much with the northwest
00:13:02 he doesn't much with the northwest position I mean Northeast some habit in my mind the layout is the same it's exactly the same but it's a is there
00:13:16 exactly the same but it's a is there where is I cannot make a fun day yes yes
00:13:27 where is I cannot make a fun day yes yes yes okay I can see it now yeah you think we can take time and go through thee no no no it's a diagram if you'd like to okay so you think that the the window
00:13:39 okay so you think that the the window well perhaps if we do it differently this video shutter shut our eyes and imagine you going into your into your living room go into the door which was you go into the living room which was
00:13:50 you go into the living room which was the window that letting the most breeze do you think the one on the right say the one of the right side yes the living room is sort of L shape so you've got windows on two sides yes and
00:14:01 you've got windows on two sides yes and as you go into the living room you get it's the one on the right is you know facing north price that is the window that is near the near the east side of a
00:14:15 that is near the near the east side of a yes
00:14:25 now you if we can go back to paragraph 54 of the statement you say mister the error in your statement there that you in the second line I complained to about
00:14:38 in the second line I complained to about this to the window installers themselves the people that installed the windows told me that they were doing as they were told
00:14:45 were told I complained to Ryden in person that there were gaps now do you remember who the people were who installed the windows do you remember the name no okay
00:14:58 windows do you remember the name no okay do you remember who you complain to Ryden about the gaps I complain why it was two people that they go around checking on everything and asking for
00:15:11 checking on everything and asking for signatures to do to work and the appointment and there those are the ones I complained to them were you ever asked to sign a piece of paper saying you were happy with the windows I don't know I
00:15:27 happy with the windows I don't know I don't remember Saturday if it was for the windows I sign papers for the work done yes okay
00:15:36 and then you go on to say I cannot recall to whom I complain but eventually write and staff did come back to the flat to observe the problems about which
00:15:47 flat to observe the problems about which I was complaining the people that came back to remedy the problem with the windows were not the contractors that had completed the work but rather ride and staff I do remember that they were different people from different companies and first of all do you
00:16:00 companies and first of all do you remember when even roughly they came back to to remedy the problem a few weeks after they did the windows after that I complained they come and we ride
00:16:14 that I complained they come and we ride and still on site doing the refurbishment at that time they were and after the ride and staff returned to fill the gaps was there still a breeze coming through the windows
00:16:26 coming through the windows no I sometimes I feel that he was cold coming in but it was no way that we can figure that it was a breeze coming and then in the windows I think after the
00:16:38 then in the windows I think after the repair they were okay right and then you go on to say in paragraph 55 to fix the problems with the breeze in the living
00:16:50 problems with the breeze in the living room I recall that right and sealed the bottom of the windowsill with silicon or some other sealant from a gun in my bedroom
00:16:57 bedroom they put a class trip of plastic similar in appearance to the material from which the windows were made directly under the window sill in order to block the flow of air coming into the bedroom did you
00:17:09 of air coming into the bedroom did you did you did you observe them doing that work yes and did it take long did it take them long nah do you remember
00:17:22 take them long nah do you remember whether it worked and kept the breezes out Shawny did it work to keep the breezes out yes
00:17:38 and as at the night of the fire in June 2017 were you experiencing any kind of drafts or breezes through the windows in your flat
00:17:55 can I then ask you about a different subject which is knowledge of fire safety if you'd go please to page two of your statement so going back in your
00:18:06 your statement so going back in your statement at paragraph seven you say in the fourth line i additionally was aware
00:18:24 the fourth line i additionally was aware of the so called stay-put policy that existed in the tower from signs outside of the lifts again which I will discuss in more detail later in this statement I knew from my work in hotels and restaurants however that should you take
00:18:36 restaurants however that should you take an early opportunity that you should take an early opportunity to escape the scene of a fire if it's safe to do so my experience with work is the reason I did that I decided to check the landing immediately outside the front door of
00:18:47 immediately outside the front door of our flat now I just want to ask you first of all about the signs that you'd seen and can we please have up on the screen BL a quadruple zero two four one
00:19:00 screen BL a quadruple zero two four one six and this is the safety notice which our experts took after the fire sighted at between the lifts in one of the
00:19:14 at between the lifts in one of the lobbies this is the one taken at floor three and is that the sign that you were referring to in your statement yes that's the last one yes okay and do you remember how long before the fire has
00:19:28 remember how long before the fire has soon before the fire you saw these signs I don't know where subtly the time and when they were fitted but he was at the
00:19:39 when they were fitted but he was at the time of the or shortly after they had Rivera did you do you remember whether there was a sign like this between the lifts on the seventh floor where you lived no I cannot I cannot remember for
00:19:54 lived no I cannot I cannot remember for sure I have seen it then but probably was in the lobby downstairs another flaw do you have any recollection of seeing this sign or this
00:20:05 recollection of seeing this sign or this kind of sign anywhere else in Granville tower before the fire no apart from the the ground floor lobby or the seventh
00:20:16 the ground floor lobby or the seventh floor I'm really going to the used to go into the other floor okay and collectors
00:20:29 into the other floor okay and collectors are skip to look then the beginning of paragraph 17 you where you say this alright in this paragraph 17 page 2 of your statement
00:20:46 you say at the beginning of paragraph' seven I was not particularly worried when we first discovered that there was a fire as I have experienced a number of fires in the Grenfell tower during my
00:20:57 fires in the Grenfell tower during my time living there none of the fire those fires escaped the flats that the fires were in and you do go on to discuss those later on but just while we're on that during those fires
00:21:09 while we're on that during those fires do you remember anybody telling you to stay put in your flat while the fire was dealt with yes once somebody was telling us that not to go
00:21:20 somebody was telling us that not to go out to stay in there in the flood because he was okay do you mean there do you remember who that was you know was it someone from the farm brigade or some somebody from there from their marriages
00:21:31 somebody from there from their marriages yes as at June 2017 what did you understand was the advice given to all
00:21:43 understand was the advice given to all residents of grenfell tower about what they should do if there was a tower if there was a fire somewhere in the tower I'm sorry can you ask again I didn't catch you the first part okay as at June
00:21:55 catch you the first part okay as at June 2017 at about at that time did you have any understanding about what the general advice to Grenville tower residents was about what they should do if there was a
00:22:06 about what they should do if there was a fire to stay put under the fires in their own flat okay and did you have that understanding because of the notice
00:22:17 that understanding because of the notice or some others no no further not yet and I get to turn to the night of the 13th 14th of June 2007 teams to verify if I
00:22:31 14th of June 2007 teams to verify if I can and I just like to show you page 2 of your statement where I think we still are and you start your description of that night at paragraph 5
00:22:46 and you say at approximately Oh 1:05 a.m. mrs. Coste from flat 103 on the 13th floor found a flat on our landline
00:22:57 13th floor found a flat on our landline telephone and is that Dorinda yes Dorinda Costa and can I ask you how do
00:23:09 Dorinda Costa and can I ask you how do you know that she called at approximately that time gosh I look on the world because it was not the time and that we received phone calls that late and I and because of that I thought
00:23:21 late and I and because of that I thought it was something going on and I check on my my watch now I didn't quite catch the first part of your answer and I didn't think the transcriber did either what
00:23:32 think the transcriber did either what did you look at to check the time when she called well my my wife took could they had the call and I look at the farm i watch because she was not timing to receive a phone call okay and were you
00:23:46 receive a phone call okay and were you in bed at the time yes
00:23:52 and in paragraph 6 of your statement I'm sorry can I just go back go back a little bit paragraph 5 you say my wife
00:24:04 little bit paragraph 5 you say my wife answered the telephone and her and mrs. Coste had a conversation mrs. Coste sounded panicked you you could you hear what mrs. Coste was saying or or could
00:24:16 what mrs. Coste was saying or or could only your wife here my wife he was telling me what they were but he was I can hear that this you were voices in the phone right as well but my wife told me that she was funny and it was a fire
00:24:29 me that she was funny and it was a fire right you then said paragraph six we both got up immediately whilst my wife was still on the telephone I ran to
00:24:40 wife was still on the telephone I ran to the living room via the hallway past my daughter's bedroom at the bathroom at that time do you remember whether you smelt or saw any signs of fire
00:24:51 smelt or saw any signs of fire no what about smoke did you see your smell any smoke no I didn't see any smoke or smell in this market that Dame where your living room windows open
00:25:06 where your living room windows open there were some of them some what about the windows in your bedroom he was shopping us well what about your
00:25:17 shopping us well what about your daughter's bedroom do you remember he was shopping and then at paragraph 8 of your statement on the top of page 3 you
00:25:34 your statement on the top of page 3 you say from the window in the dining room I went to the landing and opened the door where is the dining room in your in your
00:25:45 where is the dining room in your in your flat is it part of the living room sunny where is the dining room in your flat is it part if she is bad to the Lea window ok you say I went to the landing
00:25:56 window ok you say I went to the landing and opened the door
00:25:59 and you say there was no sign of smoke or fire on the landing did you shut the front did you shut the front door
00:26:10 front did you shut the front door yes you did in the paragraph nine you say you went back to the bedroom and got dressed and then you say in the second line whilst my wife was changing I went
00:26:22 line whilst my wife was changing I went back to the window in the living room or in the living from which I'd looked before
00:26:27 before now just pausing there which which window in the living room did you look out of the first time how'd you look out at the one on the right near the kitchen okay
00:26:42 near the kitchen okay let's just have that up on the screen if we can again when we look at we look back please at the flat plan which is M et triple zero one two five nine three and if we
00:26:53 zero one two five nine three and if we just expand flat six can you tell us which window you look to have first time
00:27:06 which window you look to have first time the one on the right there are three on the right or there are two and then in the living room one who's doing they went wrong one in the kitchen is the one in the middle the one on the menu in there and the second time you looked out
00:27:18 there and the second time you looked out did you look out at the same window yes same with now you then say
00:27:29 and you saw this is the third line of paragraph night I saw thick black smoke moving upwards from below the windage
00:27:38 and the thickness of the smoke meant that I could not see where it was coming from and then you saw I could also see orange sparks below my kitchen window though I cannot remember how far below my window they were I also caught the
00:27:49 my window they were I also caught the strong smell of plastic burning at that point when you were looking out did any smoke or sparks enter your flat no not
00:28:02 smoke or sparks enter your flat no not in time did you see any signs of fire about to enter your flat at that time you know and when you described the strong smell of plastic burning was that
00:28:13 strong smell of plastic burning was that when you looked out of the window or could you smell that in your living room if you weren't looking out of the window no if you go to the window us melody
00:28:25 no if you go to the window us melody inside the flat it was a lot of time it was not
00:28:33 now paragraphs 10 and 11 you continue to refer to what you did next and you say it the beginning of paragraph 10 I
00:28:44 it the beginning of paragraph 10 I opened the front door to the landing again my wife was with me by the front door why did you do that why did you open the front door well because I
00:28:55 open the front door well because I wasn't as I was hesitating to go out or to wait to see what is going on and I want the reference I want to see if he was smoked or it was something that he
00:29:08 was smoked or it was something that he tells me for sure that he was a big fire going home and that in case I had to leave that the way out it was clear and
00:29:20 leave that the way out it was clear and you say in the next sentence I recall there was no smoke in the lobby and certainly no fire could you could you smell anything when you put your head out into the lobby not so it was clear
00:29:33 out into the lobby not so it was clear as normal was it and then you say three lines up from the bottom of paragraph 10 on my way back into the flat I got small
00:29:46 on my way back into the flat I got small towels from the bathroom as I knew from fire drills at work that you needed you need something to cover your mouth in the event that you need to escape the fire where there is smoke did you wet
00:29:59 fire where there is smoke did you wet the towels no you didn't and you then say in paragraph 11 I walked into the kitchen and as soon as I did so I saw my nylon kitchen curtains have caught fire
00:30:10 nylon kitchen curtains have caught fire with a bright orange flame I closed the kitchen door behind me so as my wife would not know that there was now far in the flat and how long did you spend in
00:30:24 the flat and how long did you spend in the kitchen second second one minute then two minute decide oh no I said that he died me was very long right could you
00:30:35 he died me was very long right could you see anything else burning around the window at that time the first thing I noticed burning it was the Fateh destructor that's the one he put the fire on the
00:30:46 that's the one he put the fire on the guardians right so I cannot I'm not sure I caught what you just said I'm so sorry mr. Vieira the first thing you saw burning was not get it because they
00:30:57 burning was not get it because they catch fire from the strata right from the strata yes what's the strata did the fan the fan
00:31:08 what's the strata did the fan the fan oh the Xstrata okay they expel air so did you see the the fan on fire yes okay and I see did you see any flames around
00:31:25 and I see did you see any flames around the edges of the windows no the flemish first came the through the for the fun where the Halliwell that I was I see and
00:31:36 where the Halliwell that I was I see and did you see whether the fan was still in its place no it was shy it gave me and he was hanging by the the electric wire that is supported okay and said it was
00:31:50 that is supported okay and said it was there a hole where it was a hole where the fire was coming the father was coming in through the hole was it was that that was at the only place at that time when where fire was coming in he was the only place then
00:32:02 was coming in he was the only place then you start to come through the left side of the window right I see the left side of the window yes at the bottom of the window all the side all the top all all all the left
00:32:13 side all the top all all all the left side hold the buzzer more towards the top then then the bottom
00:32:30 you then say paragraph 11 that once again the strong smell of plastic burning was overpowering did you have a
00:32:42 burning was overpowering did you have a physical effect on you not that that mullen nah okay you then in paragraph 12 say I pulled the curtains down with my hands all to the floor of the kitchen you're pulling the curtain down I call small burns on my
00:32:54 curtain down I call small burns on my hands I attempted to stamp out the flames by jumping on the curtains that were now on the ground and the flames subsided and then you say the left-hand
00:33:07 subsided and then you say the left-hand side of the window caved in and landed in words into the building and landed against my fridge the back of which was placed tight against the window frame do
00:33:18 placed tight against the window frame do you remember it was whether there was a noise when that happened yeah what should we do the nice iCLASS she knows but there was not that because she didn't the weenie didn't travel very far
00:33:31 didn't the weenie didn't travel very far because he came up from the top and he landed in in on top of the fridge he was a tall Fritchie that he was in there nearly what and that's the left-hand
00:33:44 nearly what and that's the left-hand side of the window what happened to the right side we stay put it's tapered okay did you see what it calls the window on the left side to cave in in that way no I assumed it was
00:33:57 cave in in that way no I assumed it was the fire that he was covered in it and could you see what was happening to the window sill the window sill you start to melt top on left side first and then all
00:34:08 melt top on left side first and then all around the window and the under seal right down could you see once it started to melt did it start to drip and pull away did he start to melt away from the window
00:34:20 he start to melt away from the window yes he was completely separated only only only the the skillet of the window his days Wednesday and the rest he was melting how close to the window were you
00:34:31 melting how close to the window were you when it was doing that juanita really did you feel very hot yeah it started to get hot but it wasn't it wasn't really a big fire one the time I was there it was
00:34:43 big fire one the time I was there it was not a big fire it was fire and the way nobody was nothing big and nothing right when the windowsill and the side of the
00:34:56 when the windowsill and the side of the window started to melt did you see behind it could you see anything behind that no
00:35:08 could you see what was happening at the top of the window frame at that time when the left-hand side of the window collapsed it was it was melting there subtly the same addenda size he was the
00:35:20 subtly the same addenda size he was the same material it was burning a subtly the same I'm melting and dripping down right do you then say in paragraph 12
00:35:37 right do you then say in paragraph 12 the last sentence I could now see fire burning in my flat of the smoke was getting worse was anything actually burning in your flat apart from the curtains that you've extinguished was
00:35:49 curtains that you've extinguished was anything else on fire in your kitchen and there's no no that guillotine say the smoke when you say the smoke was getting worse was the smoke coming in from outside yeah and what color was the smoke that
00:36:00 yeah and what color was the smoke that you could see it that it was gray black he was a bad color but he was not a huge amount that it was coming in right did
00:36:13 amount that it was coming in right did it could you taste it or smell it you smell yes you smell plastic yes okay
00:36:25 and then you say at paragraph 14 on page four I went back towards the bedroom closing the kitchen door behind me my wife was standing outside of the
00:36:36 my wife was standing outside of the front door waiting for me to leave and then you continue to explain what you collect you say in the third line I left fourth line I'm Rob should say I left
00:36:47 fourth line I'm Rob should say I left the flat as quickly as I could looking our front door behind us my wife and I walked into the landing area immediately outside the front door of our flat at this time between 110 and 115 a.m. there was no evidence of fire
00:37:00 115 a.m. there was no evidence of fire or smoke in the landing area on the seventh floor now I just want to ask you about the timing how did you know that it was this time or between these two times do you think well I cannot be sure
00:37:13 times do you think well I cannot be sure I started that Dan wasn't looking on my watch it was about the diamond that they took me and by the timing that we get
00:37:25 took me and by the timing that we get down it was around that time he can be a minute more or less but I cannot say is precisely what time it was okay now you
00:37:40 precisely what time it was okay now you say that we've just seen there were no signs of smoke or fire in the landing area on the seventh floor did you did you notice anything about the temperature in the communal landing on
00:37:51 temperature in the communal landing on your floor at that time were the lights still on and working in their world could you hear any sound yeah him voices
00:38:06 could you hear any sound yeah him voices people walking bus and the stairs I can hear then could you hear any mechanical sound no
00:38:18 now I wonder whether the witness could please be shown by NQ Quinn tuple 0 4 6 1 now this is a still photograph mr.
00:38:37 1 now this is a still photograph mr. Vieira take taken from the CCTV from the camera placed on the seventh floor communal Lobby and this I think is the
00:38:49 communal Lobby and this I think is the first picture of you on that camera that night after 1:00 a.m. and this is with an adjusted time it had its oh one fourteen ten there's an unadjusted time
00:39:04 fourteen ten there's an unadjusted time at the bottom left-hand corner of oh one fourteen fifty but when it's adjusted because it must be it's oh one fourteen ten do does this trigger a recollection
00:39:19 ten do does this trigger a recollection of your leaving your flat at about that time no do can you identify yourself in that picture yes I think yes that's you
00:39:31 that picture yes I think yes that's you you remember wearing a stripy shirt okay now you say in your statement of paragraph fifty at the end of paragraph 14 and beginning of paragraph 15 if we
00:39:43 14 and beginning of paragraph 15 if we can just have both of those are
00:39:48 you say in the end at the end of 14 as we were walking toward the stairwell we saw a single firefighter emerge from the doorway to the stairs the firefighter was only slightly taller than me
00:40:00 was only slightly taller than me approximately five foot four inches tall he did not have any equipment with him only a cylinder of about two feet length on his back we did not have a mask on and he was not wearing breathing apparatus and I think you then go on to
00:40:17 apparatus and I think you then go on to say that you took him into your flat and showed him the fire in the kitchen yes and picking it up at paragraph 17 of
00:40:29 and picking it up at paragraph 17 of your statement at the bottom of the page
00:40:33 you say at this time the whole of the plastic window frame had melted the pane of glass on the right was still in place it had not yet collapsed onto the floor well it's nothing else in the kitchen had caught fire the whole of the window
00:40:44 had caught fire the whole of the window surround was a flame firefighter looked at the window and said there's nothing we can do with this or there's nothing we can do we have to go out or worse that effect I cannot call the precise words that he used and did the
00:40:59 words that he used and did the firefighter mention staying put at that time or did he make it pretty clear to you than you had you told me that they're actually right when you went into the kitchen at that time how much
00:41:11 into the kitchen at that time how much of the fire spread into the kitchen no much he was I think he was starting to burn in the end the sliding door between the kitchen and the and
00:41:24 the kitchen and the and right pious TV was not that huge violence right did the firefighter show surprise was he no really no no not like
00:41:38 surprise was he no really no no not like I seen that he was surprised he was not did you see the firefighter using his radio to contact anybody do you remember
00:41:52 radio to contact anybody do you remember what the smoke was like inside your flat at back was getting thicker and and vodka all around the ceiling of the kitchen right so to come down from the ceiling
00:42:03 ceiling how far down from the ceiling had accomplished you remember no I think he was more question or he was going up he was coming from the window and he was
00:42:14 was coming from the window and he was staying up like a like a cloud on top of the near the ceiling how thick was the cloud at the top of the snow no no very thick about moaning okay could you smell
00:42:30 thick about moaning okay could you smell yes it was about that Danny the smelly was getting a wash down washed he was he was uh it was some pleasant to to breathe in then did it affect your
00:42:44 breathe in then did it affect your breathing no
00:42:49 and what was the temperature in your kitchen like at that time they was getting hot he was hot darling a lot hotter than he was before
00:43:00 hotter than he was before and then at paragraph 19 of your statement you but I should just say you described in 18 how you rich you turned around and left with the firefighter and
00:43:12 around and left with the firefighter and then wanted to go back and collect your your mobile phone and your glasses yes so you get back into the flat yes as it were a second time and 19 you say with
00:43:23 were a second time and 19 you say with the towel over my mouth I walked back into our flat the smoke hit the smoke hit me immediately whilst it was not thick it was pungent a particularly accurate it was like nothing I had ever smelled before and nothing I've smelt
00:43:34 smelled before and nothing I've smelt since I could see in front of me but the smell was simply indescribable it immediately made my eyes extremely painful I decided to leave my phone on my glasses in the flat as retrieving room it was not just was just not worth
00:43:46 room it was not just was just not worth the risk
00:43:46 the risk and at the end you say I walked no more than two places in the flat before I turned around and left looking at all that together where had when you opened
00:44:01 that together where had when you opened the flat where had the smoke reached in your flat
00:44:07 he was start to come into the corridor but they was no he was a bit of smoke in the corridor living to the sitting room on the kitchen but it was nothing big he
00:44:19 on the kitchen but it was nothing big he what the worst thing was the smell dismally Ritchie even the the front door you can smell it from the front door right and we were you in the hallway
00:44:32 right and we were you in the hallway when you really felt the effects if that's smoke yes just telling you I was about the in the front of the second bedroom and looking at the smoke from
00:44:47 bedroom and looking at the smoke from the front door was a dense thick black cloud what could you see through it
00:44:55 and what color was it you remember we was greyish no real black like he was in the kitchen and was the smell of the smoke different on this occasion the
00:45:06 smoke different on this occasion the second time he went back into the flat from the smell that you experienced when he first noticed the smoke at the living-room window it was much stronger than before right
00:45:17 it was much stronger than before right well they smelly was the same way there was much stronger it was more difficult to do to be and you say that smoke was
00:45:28 to do to be and you say that smoke was painful to your eyes he said it made my eyes extremely painful yes was that the smoke or just the the air around the smoke I don't know I felt that my eyes
00:45:40 smoke I don't know I felt that my eyes they were hurt him but I don't know if he was from this manner or form there from the from the smoke itself right and when you when you left to go out of the flat did the pain in your eyes stop or
00:45:51 flat did the pain in your eyes stop or did it carry on yeah most of the was no pain after that
00:46:02 and you say at paragraph 20 I walked out of the flat closing but not locking the door behind me and was your door self
00:46:15 door behind me and was your door self closing sunny was your door self closing didn't have a self cleansing mechanism on it what did you have to pull it shut you had two bullet you had to put it did your daughter ever have a self closing
00:46:27 your daughter ever have a self closing mechanism on it he was at the beginning it was but there were so many doors replace it that is I don't remember it
00:46:39 replace it that is I don't remember it exactly right and where was where was your wife at this time when you'd go in the lobby in front of the lifts and when
00:46:52 the lobby in front of the lifts and when you came out of the of your flat what was the conditions in the lobby like at that point it was the same he was not smoke or smell in there and did you see
00:47:04 smoke or smell in there and did you see the firefighter at that point that you'd shown your flat to know you didn't know we've got another picture which is inq
00:47:17 we've got another picture which is inq quintuple zero four six six which as an unadjusted time of 122 18 which adjusted
00:47:28 unadjusted time of 122 18 which adjusted gives us Oh 120 138 and we've we've worked out that this is the last in the sequence of pictures on the camera mr. v arrow on this floor at this time can you
00:47:43 arrow on this floor at this time can you there's not really easy but can you identify yourself in this picture or at least part of you and that gives us at
00:47:55 least part of you and that gives us at least a time when you're on this floor for the last time in your statement at paragraph 20 page 5
00:48:06 paragraph 20 page 5 if we can just continue through that you say halfway down that paragraph I joined my wife who was standing by the stairwell waiting for me but this time my vision was not impaired the lights
00:48:17 my vision was not impaired the lights were on and the lobby area was not too smoky although I do recall that there was some smoke lingering near the ceiling
00:48:26 do you remember whether this was the first time that you saw smoke in the lobby
00:48:34 lobby yes how far down from the ceiling to the smoke come at that time it was close to the ceiling Costa I was just that the small clouds of smoke he was not
00:48:46 small clouds of smoke he was not something that he was small he was yeah sustained on the ceiling yes and did you see where the smoke was coming from no did you know whether it
00:48:59 coming from no did you know whether it had come out of your flat into the lobby
00:49:03 other side was on the other side of the lobby from your flat yes so outside your is this right outside your flat there was no smoke that it's making sort of
00:49:14 was no smoke that it's making sort of the lobby was on the other side of the lobby is in front of the lifts in front of the lifts yes we do in the lift Sunday and the door to the stairwell right you didn't see where it was coming
00:49:28 right you didn't see where it was coming from after you close the front door behind you you then went across the lobby and then took the stairs is that that right yes do you remember who opened the death doors to the stairwell
00:49:42 my wife brought in my wife because she was standing there but I don't who opened it and where was the firefighter sorry where was the firefighter where did he go I don't know he left there before I well came out
00:49:56 he left there before I well came out from my flat he left from there from there from the floor and do you remember whether you're you or your wife when you
00:50:07 whether you're you or your wife when you pushed the door into the stairwell had any difficulty pushing it no was there any pressure that you will she that like any at that time like any other time okay did you notice any smoke coming
00:50:21 okay did you notice any smoke coming from the stairwell into the lobby when you open the door when you got into the stairwell did you notice any movement of air no like a breeze or wind or anything
00:50:33 air no like a breeze or wind or anything like that no it was like any other day when you got into the stairwell did you notice a change in temperature no no no
00:50:44 notice a change in temperature no no no could you see smoke in the stairwell no could you smell it did you smell smoke in the stairwell hey start to smell burning when we are getting close to the
00:50:56 burning when we are getting close to the fourth floor but no before that as he went down do you remember whether you could see if any doors were open into lobbies no I think all the thoughts to
00:51:11 lobbies no I think all the thoughts to the apart from the the torrent fourth floor the rest of the door they were closed right the door on the fourth floor I think he said in paragraph 22 of your statement was held open by a hose
00:51:23 your statement was held open by a hose pipe yes
00:51:33 the paragraph 23 of your statement on page 6 that you you say that when you reach the ground floor
00:51:44 reach the ground floor you say I could see three or four firefighters in the lobby of the tower I tried to get through the stairs door out of the building one of the two doors to the to exit the building one of the firefighters told me to get to the other
00:51:55 firefighters told me to get to the other doors on the other side of the building the lifts door did he tell you why yeah I think something bother you mentioned something about that they have been
00:52:06 something about that they have been coming down from the fire because the water was from the same side of the where the fire was right and was that
00:52:19 where the fire was right and was that firefighter you spoke to who told you not to go out of that door standing by that door or did he come after you yes he was near there it was and when you
00:52:30 he was near there it was and when you left him and turned around and went out through the lobby the main entrance is that firefighter to stay there stay there
00:52:42 did you notice whether that firefighter respect to any other residents coming down the stairs kind of the shoe I think he was talking to everybody because people keep coming down the stairs
00:52:55 people keep coming down the stairs probably telling them but I don't know I think I didn't took the time to look anything else and get out do you remember on your journey down the stairs whether you saw anybody else on the
00:53:07 whether you saw anybody else on the stairs I saw a few firefighters and my neighbor from flat 45 he passes from the
00:53:19 neighbor from flat 45 he passes from the stairs as you said in your yes he said in a statement what about firefighters coming up yeah I saw a couple of firefighters going up but no not many no
00:53:35 and at paragraph 24 of your statement you say outside the tower I found a very confused situation with firefighters and police officers everywhere I asked two police officers and firefighters about
00:53:46 police officers and firefighters about where we should go I assumed that there was going to be a roll call to ascertain how many people had been in the tower and how many people had come out as was the norm in the fire drills I'd experienced at work I only heard move
00:53:57 experienced at work I only heard move back move back as the response had you ever had any roll calls at Grenville tower no and so this was your
00:54:09 tower no and so this was your expectation based on your work experience I thought that they should they want to know how many people are allowed No yes did anybody ask you when you came out
00:54:25 did anybody ask you when you came out where which flat you'd come from no but at least not that I can remember did anybody ask you that question at any time during the night
00:54:42 you say that you asked two police officers where you should get and firefighters where you should go as you can see there in paragraph 24 did they do they answer you know didn't know what
00:54:55 do they answer you know didn't know what else they didn't show me and tell me to move back more we are away from the tower
00:55:03 tower does anybody check on you whether you require any treatment when you came out of the tower No
00:55:21 mr. Vieira thank you very much I've come to the end of my first set of questions and get to ask the Chairman to have a short break now just to make sure I've caught all the questions I want to ask you and to see whether those are the
00:55:33 you and to see whether those are the there are any other questions which other people might have mr. chairman this is it convenient to take a 5-minute break now it is but in fact it's probably convenient to take a 10-minute break it probably is yes Thank You mr.
00:55:47 break it probably is yes Thank You mr. Vieira and we're going to have a short break now so that mr. millet can consider whether there are more questions that he needs to ask you so I'm going to ask you to go with the usher in just a moment and also I'm
00:55:59 usher in just a moment and also I'm going to ask you please not to talk to anyone about your evidence while you're out of the room all right you go with the usher now we'll start again at five past three thank you very much
00:56:25 right five files treatment please
01:02:51 you
01:05:57 yes mr. millet well one or two quests it's this one there's one and it's well I should have asked very good
01:06:19 thank you do sit down mr. Vieira I think they're just a couple of questions
01:06:25 mr. VRA thank you for coming back to us I just have one or two further questions when you and your wife went into the
01:06:36 when you and your wife went into the stairwell from the lobby through the stairwell door do you remember whether the stairwell door closed automatically behind you yes it did that brings me to my final question
01:06:49 did that brings me to my final question then and that is this is there anything further additional in addition to your written witness statement and in addition to what you've told us today
01:07:00 addition to what you've told us today about what you saw or heard or smelt or felt on the night of the fire itself that you think it's important that the Chairman should know well mr. Vieira it
01:07:18 Chairman should know well mr. Vieira it only remains for me to say thank you very much to you for coming here today and giving us your evidence and helping us with our inquiries we we really very much appreciate it thank you yes and I'd like to add my thanks to those of mr.
01:07:30 like to add my thanks to those of mr. millet it's really important to us to know what was going on within the building at different times on different floors so every bit of evidence is really valuable and helpful and we're
01:07:41 really valuable and helpful and we're very grateful to you for coming to give the bit that you can give thank you very much in English yeah right so you're free to go would you like to go to the office you look after you okay thank you thank you very much
01:08:04 mr. chairman we will now continue with further reading I'm in your hands as to whether we should take a another short break or reply plow straight or is it convenient to plow straight on I think it's convenient
01:08:15 plow straight on I think it's convenient mr. mr. rip Rama to plow straight on to plow straight on say no and they're ready to plow straight he is what we feel I shall go and pass my thanks to the witness yes we'll just take a moment
01:08:27 the witness yes we'll just take a moment put organized nuts around
01:08:42 mr. chairman if I start with an explanation that what we're going to do this afternoon is to put ten statements into the record and if I say again as I
01:08:54 into the record and if I say again as I did this morning but in relation to all 10 statements whilst I will be reading extracts from some of them they will be published in their entirety subject to
01:09:06 published in their entirety subject to any appropriate redaction but the statement in full stands as part of the evidence before the inquiry and will be considered in full as part of that thank you
01:09:17 you I start if I may with Chen with the witness statement to this inquiry of Vanessa Fierro she was a resident in
01:09:30 Vanessa Fierro she was a resident in flat 46 on the 7th law and in fact is the daughter of Jose Fierro from we've just heard and his wife Carmen the
01:09:44 just heard and his wife Carmen the reference for the statement is iws five zeroes eight seven four there are no exhibits accompanying the statement but if we go to the last page page five you
01:09:58 if we go to the last page page five you can see that the state there is a statement of truth the statement is signed and it's dated the 21st of May 2018 I don't propose to read any
01:10:09 2018 I don't propose to read any particular paragraphs but just to simply say this in the statement miss Piero confirms that she lived was living with her parents in Grenville tower at the time of the fire but wasn't actually present there on the night itself she
01:10:22 present there on the night itself she learned to the fire to around 3:00 a.m. on the 14th of June after a friend from the tower contacted her and she then traveled back to the scene she was able to find her parents who had who were by
01:10:34 to find her parents who had who were by then outside the tower yes well right that I should say at this stage that even though you're not reading out any particular passage we are very grateful to
01:10:44 to Piero for making the statement taking the time in trouble to do that and so what she tells us will form part of the evidence will be taken into account and I mean what we can say obviously is that
01:10:56 I mean what we can say obviously is that you know part of the work that the inquiry is doing is establishing who was and was not in the tower beautiful for someone to make a statement saying where they were at the time is always very helpful the next statement I would like
01:11:10 helpful the next statement I would like to put on the record is a statement from another person who lived on floor 7 and who was present at the time the fire this is the witness statement of Betty
01:11:21 this is the witness statement of Betty Kasota
01:11:22 Kasota and that reference is as iws five zero seven six eight please again it's not
01:11:34 seven six eight please again it's not accompanied by any exhibits but if we go to the last page page ten there is a statement of truth it's dated as it's
01:11:47 statement of truth it's dated as it's signed and it's dated the 27th of June 2018
01:11:51 2018 I do propose here to read some parts of this statement but to begin with a little bit of background miss Kasota confirms that she lived on her own in
01:12:03 confirms that she lived on her own in and she was in flat 41 on the seventh floor she'd moved there in 1996 before that she'd lived in testan walk and so she'd been part of the community for
01:12:14 she'd been part of the community for many years on that night she'd gone to bed around 10:00 p.m. on the 13th of June 2017 and was then woken around 12:45 a.m. by a noise in the distance I
01:12:28 12:45 a.m. by a noise in the distance I will come back to that but if I could start please with paragraph 3 on page 1
01:12:38 yes Satan there reads I knew some of the neighbors who lived on the seventh floor mrs. Harris lived in flat 42 Michael Elizabeth and their daughter lived in flat 43 Torah fact her husband and their
01:12:51 flat 43 Torah fact her husband and their little boy lived in flat 44 a new couple in their little girl lived in flat 45 I don't know exactly when they moved in and Jose and Carmen lived in flat 46 if
01:13:03 and Jose and Carmen lived in flat 46 if I could then just before going to the events of the night just turned to paragraph 16 on page 4 mr. Sturgis says
01:13:14 paragraph 16 on page 4 mr. Sturgis says had not been told about any fire safety issues by the TMO or anyone else but it had occurred to me that if there was a fire there was only one place for us to get out down the stairwell I remember a
01:13:26 get out down the stairwell I remember a friend coming to visit me a few months before the fire who said to me Betty what will you do if there is a fire what if the stairs are blocked that really worried me and it's stuck with me could
01:13:38 worried me and it's stuck with me could I also just go to the next page and paragraph page 5 paragraph 21 please what mr. socha also says is I do
01:13:49 what mr. socha also says is I do remember that the fire policy was to stay put
01:13:51 stay put unless you see a fire or had been told to leave by a firefighter I remember seeing a notice pinned up on a notice board by the lift which said this if I turn now to the events of the
01:14:05 this if I turn now to the events of the night and said his recollection of those events as I said she recounts in her statement and if this is on we start on page 6 at paragraph 24 that she was
01:14:20 page 6 at paragraph 24 that she was woken up and it was 12:45 and what she says is I could hear some sort of noise in the distance I think it was an alarm going off in the building somewhere I looked at the clock in my bedroom and it
01:14:32 looked at the clock in my bedroom and it said it was 12:45 and if I take it from now from paragraph 25 the statement continues the alarm continued to go off for the minutes afterwards and I started
01:14:45 for the minutes afterwards and I started to hear noise from outside I got up out of
01:14:48 of and looked down from my bedroom window I could see fire engines three or four of them around the base of the tower and along the road leading up to the tower firefighters were pulling hoses towards
01:15:00 firefighters were pulling hoses towards the building I had not seen this before when the other fires had happened I felt that something wasn't quite right they were pulling hoses and looking up a lot I put some jeans and a top on and
01:15:12 I put some jeans and a top on and decided to leave my flat to see what was going on I put my shoes on took my keys and went out usually I would have had to go to a cupboard in the living room to get my shoes but this time I had a pair
01:15:24 get my shoes but this time I had a pair sitting in my bedroom for some reason as I'm went out I met Elizabeth from flat 43 on the landing I noticed there was a faint smell of smoke in the hallway I wasn't able to see any smoke but I could
01:15:36 wasn't able to see any smoke but I could smell it I actually startled Elizabeth and she jumped she wasn't expecting to see me there I said that something was going on and I told her I could smell smoke she said that she had come out she
01:15:49 smoke she said that she had come out she could hear a noise in her flat that sounded like a big fan turning on I said that I had seen firefighters outside and that we should leave she said that we could not see the fire so we should stay
01:16:00 could not see the fire so we should stay in our flats as we were supposed to I thought perhaps she was right that we could not see the fine so why would we leave I thought I would wait until we were told to leave if we had to as had happened before I went back into my flat
01:16:14 happened before I went back into my flat with the intention of going to bed I decided change into a dress so that I was more comfortable if I decided to sleep but if I had to run out then I could do so before I got on my bed I had
01:16:27 could do so before I got on my bed I had another look out of the window I could hear sirens and it was busy outside with a lot of people gathered across the green looking towards the tower I couldn't see or smell any smoke I
01:16:38 couldn't see or smell any smoke I decided to walk around to the kitchen living room to see if I could see anything else I was totally shocked as I could immediately see from the kitchen and living room windows a very large
01:16:49 and living room windows a very large fire coming around the corner of the building towards the far end of my living room flames of huge and burning upwards they were a very deep orange I had never seen anything like it there
01:17:02 I had never seen anything like it there was there were there was very dark black smoke billowing away from the flames the kitchen smelled strongly of smoke which I now think is rather odd as my bedroom really did not smell strongly of smoke
01:17:13 really did not smell strongly of smoke it was terrifying to see the fire coming towards my flat I felt panic and remember thinking that I just needed to get out I ran back to my bedroom and
01:17:25 get out I ran back to my bedroom and grabbed my keys and phone I put my shoes on as quickly as possible I remember thinking that if my shoes were in the cupboard like usual I would have seen the fire when I had when I have first decided to get up and see what was going
01:17:37 decided to get up and see what was going on when I met Elizabeth outside I checked my watch it was 1:10 a.m. I ran to the hallway and across to flat 43 I
01:17:49 to the hallway and across to flat 43 I knocked on the door Elizabeth answered she was awake and dressed her daughter was in a nightgown and her husband Michael was dressed I said I saw a massive fire coming towards
01:18:00 said I saw a massive fire coming towards my flat I then rang the bell of number 42 and they didn't answer Michael banged on the door shouting that there was a fire mrs. Harris and her partner then came to the door I walked
01:18:12 partner then came to the door I walked towards number 46 Jose and Carmen opened the door before I could not consulted to pour out from the ceiling of their flat I guess because the fire had reached their flat taura fat and her family in
01:18:26 their flat taura fat and her family in the new couple had come out of their flats in the meantime I guess because of all the noise we were making everyone from our floor was out of their flats and gathered in the hallway it was me
01:18:37 and gathered in the hallway it was me Elizabeth
01:18:38 Elizabeth Michael their daughter mrs. Harris her partner Tara fat her husband their son the new couple and their daughter and Jose in Carmen there was hardly any
01:18:49 Jose in Carmen there was hardly any smoke in the hallway but the smell was getting stronger it was only flat 46 of our group of flats which had smoke coming out through the door smoke was gradually collecting towards the top of
01:19:00 gradually collecting towards the top of the hallway although was very thin and grey you could however smell the smoke quite strongly I walked in front and opened the door to the stairwell where I met a firefighter who was going up the
01:19:11 met a firefighter who was going up the stairs
01:19:12 stairs quickly he stopped for a moment and just said run get out we started running down we met a second firefighter who also said run get out he was connecting a
01:19:24 said run get out he was connecting a hose to a water point a few floors down from ours
01:19:27 from ours neither the firefighters had masks on there was no smoke on the stairwell we all just started running down the stairs I I had been really scared by how the
01:19:38 I I had been really scared by how the firefighters had acted clearly it was something serious we met a woman with a baby halfway down the stairs I think around the fourth floor and we had told her to run as she was just slowly walking down I think she had
01:19:51 just slowly walking down I think she had just come out to check what was going on she did not seem like she had been told there was a file or anything like that we ran to the bottom and out to the main door at the front of the building I
01:20:02 door at the front of the building I understand that I'm recorded on CCTV as leaving the tower at 123 the main front door was shut as far as I can remember it as soon as we open the door we could
01:20:15 it as soon as we open the door we could feel the heat it was really strong and unlike anything I had felt before we ran away from the tower towards a small group of people but we were one of the first groups to come out so there
01:20:26 first groups to come out so there weren't a lot of people at this point it wasn't organized there wasn't anyone there to tell us what to do and so we decided to run towards the Sports Center we were running past but I stopped and stood to take a picture of the building
01:20:38 stood to take a picture of the building it was horrifying I could not believe what was happening it's Gemini stop reading there and move on to the next statement she's again a
01:20:50 on to the next statement she's again a statement from a resident of floor 7 this is a statement of Hermine harris a black 42 the statement references iws six zeros 87 there are no exhibits
01:21:04 six zeros 87 there are no exhibits accompanying the statement but if we go to page 7 the last page we can see that there is a statement of truth and the same dis signed and dated the 11th of
01:21:15 same dis signed and dated the 11th of May 2018 in her statement miss Harris explains that she had lived in Grenville
01:21:27 explains that she had lived in Grenville tower 41 years as of summer 2017 she lived alone although her partner gene Levine or often stayed with her and
01:21:38 Levine or often stayed with her and indeed was staying with her on the night of the 13th of June I just want to read three paragraphs of the statement and that's from page 3 paragraph 13 and
01:21:52 that's from page 3 paragraph 13 and that's the events of the night on Tuesday 13th of June 2017 I went to bed leaving gene up in the living room reading I usually go to bed about 12:00
01:22:03 reading I usually go to bed about 12:00 or 1:00 a.m. but I was tired that night so I got myself ready for bed and I went to watch television in the small bedroom I must have fallen asleep as I was then woken up by knocking at the front door I
01:22:15 woken up by knocking at the front door I think this was about 1:00 a.m. I got out of bed and went to the door gene said to me there was someone knocking sometimes we have people come and knock on the door late at night so I thought it might
01:22:26 door late at night so I thought it might be that there's nothing to suggest that anything was wrong I looked through the spy hole in the door but I couldn't see anyone there I went to the bathroom and I was going to go back to bed when I
01:22:37 I was going to go back to bed when I heard more knocking I said to Jeanne who is that I looked through the spy hole again and saw my neighbor Florence and a fireman
01:22:46 fireman Florence was in her dressing gown the fireman was wearing a yellow helmet in a suit I was so shocked I opened the front door and Florence said mrs. Harris there's a fire get out get out she
01:22:59 there's a fire get out get out she sounded really panicked I stood there for a second and I didn't know what to do I don't remember if the fireman said anything Jean was still awake reading so I said to him come on let's get out
01:23:11 I said to him come on let's get out we both got ready straight away and all I grabbed was my front door keys I thought we will be coming back in Jeanne was already fully clothed I put my
01:23:22 was already fully clothed I put my slippers and my dressing gown on and Jeanne and I left the flat I was saying to Jean come on come on as we left I remember shutting the front door behind us this door had been replaced some
01:23:34 us this door had been replaced some years ago
01:23:35 years ago fairly heavy and it would close on its own due to the self closing hinges and spring it had on it I think it was made of wood I closed the raw door ready to return to later and we went towards the
01:23:46 return to later and we went towards the stairwell stairwell it's across the corridor from my flat I didn't look to see if anyone else was coming out of their flats I didn't smell or see any smoke the landing was clear I made a
01:23:58 smoke the landing was clear I made a beeline straight for the stairwell the lobby area outside our flat was well lit and I could see no fire a smoke at this time which was just after 1:00 a.m. now we pushed open the fire door which is on
01:24:11 we pushed open the fire door which is on self closing hinges and worked ok and this led us into the stairwell and we started to go down the stairs it looked the same as the lobby it was well lit and there was no smoke when I opened the
01:24:22 and there was no smoke when I opened the door it looked normal once we were inside the stairwell I started to smell the smoke and it became hotter but not too hot I still can see any smoke though
01:24:34 too hot I still can see any smoke though we moved quickly and there was there were not obstacles in our way to stop us getting down the stairs but by now I was a bit panicky the firemen didn't give us any advice about how to leave safely but
01:24:46 any advice about how to leave safely but I live opposite the door to the stairs there's only one way to leave it didn't take us long to get down the stairs maybe 10 minutes I could hear other people's steps on the stairs but I didn't look around to see who they were
01:24:58 didn't look around to see who they were no one tried to push past us so I didn't see anyone else I was trying to get down the stairs quickly just focused on getting out of the building I don't remember seeing any other people on noticing any of the fire doors being
01:25:10 noticing any of the fire doors being open or shut so he went down the stairs as we were moving fast and I was in a panic mr. chairman that's where I'm going to stop reading from that statement but if I just for the record note that the recorded exit time for
01:25:23 note that the recorded exit time for Miss Harris is 126 a.m. thank you
01:25:29 the next statement I want to put on the record is that of mr. Abraham a baby who lived in flat 44 on the seventh floor the reference for the statement is iws
01:25:42 the reference for the statement is iws five zeros eight four seven there are no accompanying exhibits but if we go to page 14 the last page please statement
01:25:55 page 14 the last page please statement is signed and dated the 14th of June 2018
01:25:58 2018 it has a statement of truth the heading of which begins on the preceding page to begin with a brief summary mr. baby live
01:26:09 begin with a brief summary mr. baby live were in flat 44 with his wife and his son his wife Torah fact had lived in the tower since 1996 her mr. BAE BAE had moved in in 2015 on the evening of 13th
01:26:24 moved in in 2015 on the evening of 13th of June 2017 all three of the family were at home and mr. baby and his wife had gone to bed by around 11:30 p.m. on that night if I pick it up then at
01:26:35 that night if I pick it up then at paragraph six on page two please I now understand that the fire in Grenville
01:26:47 understand that the fire in Grenville tower started at around 12 54 a.m. the first time that I became aware there was any problem at all in the early hours of 14th of June 2017 was was my friend
01:26:59 14th of June 2017 was was my friend Paulus who lived on the 18th floor of Grenfell tower telephoned my mobile telephone which I had uncharged near to my bed at 1:32 a.m. I was confused by
01:27:11 my bed at 1:32 a.m. I was confused by the call as I was partially asleep and I did not answer it as a mobile phone was a bit of a distance from me I could not see who was calling me at the time my mobile telephone then rang again at 1:34
01:27:23 mobile telephone then rang again at 1:34 a.m. and I allowed it to ring through to my voicemail as I began to wake up a few minutes later I decided to get out of bed and I looked at who had called me at such an early hour of the morning it was
01:27:36 such an early hour of the morning it was then that I realised that I had missed calls from my friend Paulus who lived in flat 153 with his wife Jeanette and their sons if I pick up on the last sentence of the paragraph
01:27:48 up on the last sentence of the paragraph then reads I was not expecting a call from power loss and a call from anyone at that time of the morning was cause for concern I rang power loss back he told me that there was a fire in the tower and that
01:28:00 there was a fire in the tower and that was on his floor floor 18 he said that he'd been woken up by noises and had checked and then found out about the fire power loss told me that I should check my floor and around our flat the
01:28:11 check my floor and around our flat the call ended there panicked I went immediately to check our flattened landing and in so doing I woke up my wife and my son I cannot recall whether my wife came with me but I remember
01:28:23 my wife came with me but I remember going over to the window in the kitchen from the kitchen I could see the reflection of the blue lights of the emergency vehicles in and around the playground at the bottom of the tower directly underneath the window from
01:28:34 directly underneath the window from which I was looking I could not see fire I instinctively went to look at the situation on our landing and it occurred to me that the best thing to do was to leave the flat and the tower as soon as
01:28:46 leave the flat and the tower as soon as possible I looked outside to the landing using the peephole in our front door and I could see smoke which was a gray white in color and clearly visible on our landing at that time I thought it was
01:28:59 landing at that time I thought it was relatively thick given how the fire and smoke progressed on that night I would now describe the smoke as thin especially because we eventually battled our way through heavier smoke later on
01:29:10 our way through heavier smoke later on in order to leave the tower I could still see the landing lights were on outside the door and they were visible through the smoke we were still in our night clothes so I told my wife that we
01:29:22 night clothes so I told my wife that we should put on outdoor clothes over them and said to her not to panic we decided to leave the flat I grabbed my son in my arms and with my right hand I held a
01:29:33 arms and with my right hand I held a scarf over his mouth and face I knew that he was more susceptible to harm from smoke than I was and I thought that the smoke
01:29:40 the smoke scarf would reduce some of the risk of harm from the smoke that might otherwise be without something covering his mouth he was very scary having to think of ways in which I would have to try and prevent my child being harmed or even
01:29:52 prevent my child being harmed or even worse my wife grabbed her purse the flat keys and she locked the doors we left I was given no information about fire safety advice or guidance between moving into the tower and the eventual
01:30:04 moving into the tower and the eventual tragedy I do recall seeing notices in the lobby in the lift area stating that there was a stay put policy in the tower in the event of a fire instinct told me however that I should leave the tower as
01:30:16 however that I should leave the tower as soon as possible it was no more than two or three minutes after discovering that there was a fire in the building before my family and I left our flat I ran out
01:30:27 my family and I left our flat I ran out of my flat with my son in my arms my wife who'd locked the front door behind her was no more than two or three steps behind me we ran to the stairwell on our floor and ran down the stairs the lights
01:30:40 floor and ran down the stairs the lights were still on both in the landing and on the stairwell I could however see where I was going so it was not very thick the smoke initially was similar on the stairwell
01:30:51 initially was similar on the stairwell to that on our landing I could see through it all right and it was white in color I ran down the stairs as quickly as I possibly could with the smoke getting progressively worse as I
01:31:03 getting progressively worse as I descended with my son eventually I came to the landing between the fifth and the fourth floors by this stage there was a large amount of smoke in the stairwell and it was heavy and colored black I was
01:31:16 and it was heavy and colored black I was able to look into the fourth floor landing I could see a lone firefighter slightly below me with his back opening the door to the fourth communal landing full floor communal landing he was
01:31:28 full floor communal landing he was pulling as a folded flat fire hose I think he was pulling the hose into the fourth floor but I cannot be sure what he was trying to do there was thick acrid black smoke pouring out of the
01:31:39 acrid black smoke pouring out of the door he was holding open it was filling the stairwell at that level it was unbelievable I could not see down past the firefighter because of the smoke I
01:31:50 the firefighter because of the smoke I was going to push on through the smoke continued continuing my attempt to get down the stairs with my son and get out of the burning building I did not stop to consider whether there were flames
01:32:01 to consider whether there were flames behind the smoke nor did I consider whether it was safe to continue down the Seoul escape route out of the building just as I began to step onto the fourth floor of the stairwell where the smoke
01:32:12 floor of the stairwell where the smoke was heaviest I heard my wife shout behind me stop come back or similar words she shouted about three times I did not know whether she was in danger
01:32:23 did not know whether she was in danger of Schiff she had fallen and I did not stop to think or ask why she was shouting I immediately turned around and followed her back up the stairs as she had turned back up the building once
01:32:35 had turned back up the building once again as I had on the way down I ran with my son in my arms as fast as I could I followed my wife as I could not see the floor numbers on the stair landings we ran back to our flat in a
01:32:47 landings we ran back to our flat in a rapid time frame I did not see anyone coming up or down the stairs at any time during this period which was had been our first attempt to escape the tower
01:32:58 our first attempt to escape the tower my wife telephoned 999 from her mobile telephone almost as soon as we re-entered the flat she's not on the telephone very long and I recall that she explained slowly and clearly the
01:33:10 she explained slowly and clearly the situation there was not much conversation from what she has since told me the operator to not ask him any questions when she got off the phone my wife seemed slightly less worried she
01:33:21 wife seemed slightly less worried she was reassured by having spoken to someone who seemed to know what they were talking about my wife told me that the 999 operator had told her to put items around the bottom of the door in order to stop smoke coming into our flat
01:33:33 order to stop smoke coming into our flat I went immediately to get a quilt and I started putting it around the bottom of the door I recall looking out of the windows from our flat and I could see people on the ground below waving and I
01:33:44 people on the ground below waving and I could hear them shouting to people to get out of the tower I still could not see any fire this stage in my mind i rapidly thought that we needed to try again and escape however I remembered
01:33:56 again and escape however I remembered the notices in the tower and the advice that we should stay in our flat as it was not on fire we had received advice from the 999 operate on how to stem smoke ingress but I realized by now this
01:34:07 smoke ingress but I realized by now this would not help us to eventually escape terrific was saying things like what are we going to do are we going to have to jump it was a harrowing experience to see my wife with those thoughts in her
01:34:18 see my wife with those thoughts in her mind
01:34:18 mind we had made an attempt to leave we had tried to get out of the tower but we had failed
01:34:26 failed we had been in our flat for no more than five minutes when there was a loud banging and knocking at the door I cannot recall whether it was my wife or whether it was me who opened the door but when it was open there was a tall
01:34:37 but when it was open there was a tall firefighter standing there he was wearing a mask and had a torch on his head he said something like you need to get out of the building then he shouted
01:34:48 get out of the building then he shouted out I cannot recall the exact words spoken by the firefighter because of the panic and the state of mind that I was in at the time but I do recall that my wife then tried to explain to him our
01:34:59 wife then tried to explain to him our previous attempts to leave the building I could hear the desperation and the urgency in her voice as she spoke rapidly to him the firefighter did not engage with my wife he said shouting
01:35:11 engage with my wife he said shouting again out we did not need to be told more than twice firefighter did not give us any such as breathing apparatus or a smoke hood I already knew the grave and
01:35:22 smoke hood I already knew the grave and unimaginable unimaginable danger that I and my family could be in having seen the smoke billowing from the stairs on the fourth floor staircase there was no hesitation however as I was going to
01:35:34 hesitation however as I was going to leave the flat and the tower immediately and regardless of the conditions below us our second and final attempt to leave the tower was at some point before 1:45 a.m. I grabbed and then the name of mr.
01:35:49 a.m. I grabbed and then the name of mr. babish sons redacted into my arms covering his mouth with the scarf again and I left the flat on the landing as I existed the flat door I could see another firefighter banging on other
01:36:00 another firefighter banging on other front doors of other flats on 7th floor I got to the stairwell before my wife and started descending the stairs with my son my wife who I now know went back to the flat to get water for our son for
01:36:12 to the flat to get water for our son for the moment we left the building was about six or seven steps behind me I had not reached the bottom of the first flight of stairs before she came into the stairwell while the lights were on
01:36:25 the stairwell while the lights were on and I could see where I was going the smoke was heavier higher up in the stairwell than it had been when I first tried to
01:36:31 tried to scape but there was no problem with visibility I ran down the stairs as quickly as I could hearing my wife just behind me like our first attempt to escape the smoke became
01:36:42 first attempt to escape the smoke became thicker the further down the stairs we got by the fourth floor where we had seen the firefighter on our previous attempt to get down the stairs a firefighter I cannot recall whether it
01:36:53 firefighter I cannot recall whether it was the same firefighter was on the stairs to the fourth floor again I do not recall seeing the landing door open this time and as a result the smoke in that area was not as thick as it had
01:37:05 that area was not as thick as it had been before I do not talk to the firefighter and I did not make eye contact with him I do not know whether he saw us coming down the stairs I could feel the panic arising as the smoke hit
01:37:17 feel the panic arising as the smoke hit the back of my throat the stairwell as it was black and smelled toxic Tora fat was coughing behind me she was muttering but I could not hear what she was saying
01:37:28 but I could not hear what she was saying I now know that she was praying we did not have time to stop and ask the firefighter what was going on or whether it was safe to carry on down the stairs I pushed on rapidly running down the
01:37:40 I pushed on rapidly running down the stairs after we passed the fourth floor the smoke thinned out we did not see anyone apart from the firefighter who'd been on the fourth floor stairwell there was no one ascending or descending the
01:37:52 was no one ascending or descending the stairs while we made our final attempt to leave the building I've since been told by my wife that the floor of the stairwell was wet but I cannot recall noticing that at the time as we reached
01:38:04 noticing that at the time as we reached the ground floor I put my son down so that he could walk for himself the relief started to set in as I realized that my family and I had escaped the building I do not recall
01:38:15 escaped the building I do not recall seeing firefighters or other emergency services personnel inside the ground-floor reception area of Granville Tower at this time I cannot recall when we left exactly but I'm now aware from a
01:38:28 we left exactly but I'm now aware from a still image from the CCTV cameras provided to me by the Metropolitan Police the police have a record that I left the building at 148 ahem I believe that we were in the tower for
01:38:39 that we were in the tower for approximately 20 minutes from being alerted that there was a fire in the build
01:38:43 build to making it out to safety it felt like an awful lot longer than that at the time and that's where I'm going to end reading from that statement mr. chairman thank you the next statement I turn to
01:38:59 thank you the next statement I turn to is that of mr. BAE's wife torrefied Gilmer Girma the statement is at reference iws five zeros eight four
01:39:11 reference iws five zeros eight four eight
01:39:13 eight there is one exhibit to that which is marked in the statement is TG one and has the reference we don't need to put
01:39:25 has the reference we don't need to put it up iws five zeros 934 it's a photograph taken off after the miss mrs. Gilmer had left the building
01:39:38 Gilmer had left the building as I have said mrs. gormer is the wife of Abraham a baby and as I previously indicates she'd lived in the tower since
01:39:52 indicates she'd lived in the tower since 1996 and as of June 2000 of seventeen was living in flat 44 with her husband and son
01:40:07 you will have noted mr. chairman from mr. beibei's statement that he recalls being woken up by a phone call and he
01:40:18 being woken up by a phone call and he then went out to see what was going on in the hallway saw smoke and the family decided to leave with their son if I could pick up and read some extracts
01:40:30 could pick up and read some extracts from mrs. Gomes statement from page four please paragraph 18 and this is from the point mrs. Gummer records that she was
01:40:41 point mrs. Gummer records that she was woken up by her husband my husband and I went to check out of the window in the living room that window looks out the playground area below the tower on the
01:40:52 playground area below the tower on the walkways people were standing and waving and shouting fire fire I perceived from the reflections on the buildings around us the blue lights of emergency vehicles and I could see people waving on the ground there was however no sign of fire
01:41:05 ground there was however no sign of fire that we could either see or hear I immediately started to panic I had no idea what to do I was asking my husband frantically what do i do what do I do my husband went to our front door and
01:41:17 my husband went to our front door and looked through the peephole he said he could see grayish white smoke in the hallway and told me that we told me that we must leave immediately I was panicking but we were moving quickly and
01:41:28 panicking but we were moving quickly and I felt that this it was sensible and safe to get out of the building and away from the fire at that time I could not smell smoke inside my flat and I could not hear sirens or any smoke alarms
01:41:40 not hear sirens or any smoke alarms going off either inside my flat or outside in the hallway it's less than two minutes between us getting up and then deciding to leave Grenville tower my husband grabbed our young son we knew
01:41:53 my husband grabbed our young son we knew that it was common sense not to use the lift as I remember from other buildings not grown for tower that there were signs I'd seen telling people that you're not supposed to use the lift in the event of fire we left the flat I
01:42:06 the event of fire we left the flat I locked the front door behind me and bringing only my key in my phone we ran to the stairwell my husband was in front of me by only two or three steps he was carrying our young son in his
01:42:18 carrying our young son in his my husband had put a scarf over our son's mouth and nose when we went out onto the landing there was light gray colored smoke but you could see through it the light on the landing was on so I
01:42:30 it the light on the landing was on so I ran to the door to the stairwell Abraham was in front of me Abraham was in front of me carrying our son the lights were on in the stairwell I cannot remember whether there was smoke on the
01:42:42 remember whether there was smoke on the stairs when we entered the stairwell her right I do know that I could breathe relatively easily in the stairwell at our level certainly there was no thick smoke going down the stairs from the
01:42:53 smoke going down the stairs from the seventh floor until we got to the fifth and fourth floors and we were able to see ahead of us I was not coughing and nor was my son and husband between each floor there
01:43:05 and husband between each floor there were two flights of stairs divided by a small landing we ran down the stairs as quickly as we could manage when we got to the landing between the fifth and the fourth floor we could see a firefighter
01:43:16 fourth floor we could see a firefighter holding open the door to the landing on the fourth floor cannot recall exactly what he was doing but he was pulling at a fire hose the hose was flat and there
01:43:27 a fire hose the hose was flat and there was no water coming through it there was so much smoke I could see thick black smoke pouring out of the door from the fourth floor landing into the stairwell as the fourth
01:43:38 landing into the stairwell as the fourth floor landing stroke fire door was being held open by the firefighter and his hose the smoke hit me in the throat it had a powerful poisonous smell I could
01:43:50 had a powerful poisonous smell I could not see anything past the firefighter and I could not see the stairs between the fourth and third floors I assumed that there would be flames behind the smoke and I was worried that we would
01:44:01 smoke and I was worried that we would succumb to the smoke I made direct eye contact with the firefighter but I did not speak to him and he did not say anything to me when I saw the smoke I
01:44:12 anything to me when I saw the smoke I expected fire to also be there I panicked thinking that there might be fire coming into the stairwell I did not know what was behind the smoke and assumed that whatever had caused the
01:44:25 assumed that whatever had caused the smoke would certainly kill me and my family and stairs I called ahead to my husband I shouted at him three times come back come back come back he turned around
01:44:36 come back come back he turned around immediately and then we began to run to back up the stairs to our flat now when I think about it the firefighter could have told us to continue down the stairs and out of the
01:44:48 continue down the stairs and out of the building as we were on the stairwell I assumed he must have known that there was not likely to be smoke down below us in the stairwell and certainly no fire from where he had come up the stairs when we began to ascend the stairs again
01:45:00 when we began to ascend the stairs again a firefighter could have told us that we should have come back and continued escaping the burning building but he did not he saw us clearly going up the stairs higher into the building I cannot
01:45:12 stairs higher into the building I cannot recall anyone ascending or descending the stairs either on our way down or our way up at this time which would be just after 1:40 a.m. when we were running back up panic started to hit me I
01:45:25 back up panic started to hit me I noticed that the signs on the stairwell marking each floor was so small and hard to see I had to count each flight of stairs that I knew when we had reached the seventh floor where we lived as it
01:45:37 the seventh floor where we lived as it was not clear which floor we were on I called 999 as soon as we got back int back to the flat it would have been between 1:42 and 1:45 a.m. on 14th June
01:45:49 between 1:42 and 1:45 a.m. on 14th June 2017 I called 999 on my mobile phone and mrs. go my thing gives that the number she used and then she continues I told the operator a woman where I was in
01:46:02 the operator a woman where I was in Grenville tower and the floor we were on in the building I said that I was with my husband and my son and I told her that we tried to get out but we were unable to because there was too much smoke she do not ask me any questions
01:46:15 smoke she do not ask me any questions and told me that the fire brigade were aware of the fire and that help was coming she told me we should stay inside the flat and we should put towels around the front door I told my husband the advice I received and he put a quilt
01:46:26 advice I received and he put a quilt covered down by the bottom of the front door I was significantly less panicked as a result of the phone call after all I thought that I had had received advice
01:46:37 I thought that I had had received advice from people he knew what they were talking about I was confident that the fire services were going to come even by helicopter to put out the fire and to rescue the people in the tower I was not calm but I
01:46:48 people in the tower I was not calm but I was a lot less panic than I had been before on the stairwell we'd spoken to the fire brigade and they had given us advice to stay in our flat however I could feel the panic and the terror
01:46:59 could feel the panic and the terror rising within me I kept saying to Abraham Abraham what are we going to do are we going to jump however I still had confidence that something was going to happen that we were going to be rescued
01:47:10 happen that we were going to be rescued at that point I thought that it was impossible that we were going to go out unaided and that we were and that we were going to try and leave again via the stairs we had seen the thick black
01:47:21 the stairs we had seen the thick black smoke on the fourth floor I knew that the smoke was coming into the stairwell and possibly the fire I thought that the only way to get out of the smoke as I thought fire was behind the smoke would be to jump I thought
01:47:34 the smoke would be to jump I thought that there was no way that we were going to be able to get out of the tower through the stairs at the time I did not know whether I would have survived that jump from the seventh floor I knew there was a playground below I just do not
01:47:46 was a playground below I just do not know what I was thinking at the time as I was in a panic I now know that I would not have survived a jump from the seventh floor which is so high it almost guarantees certain death in my mind in
01:47:57 guarantees certain death in my mind in that situation jumping was the only chance of not being burnt to death even if I did not survive before it was going to be a less painful way of dying than burning to death but surviving was my
01:48:08 burning to death but surviving was my main priority the only thing that was in my mind has in so many others was getting out of the fire and saving my family we're in our flat for what would subsequently be the last time for any a
01:48:20 subsequently be the last time for any a matter of minutes then I heard a loud knock at the door my husband was by the front door putting the quilt cover at the bottom of the door so he opened the door a firefighter I could only see one
01:48:31 door a firefighter I could only see one firefighter stood at the front door of our flat he had a mask on and a light on his head behind the firefighter I could see gray white smoke significantly thicker in the landing than it was
01:48:43 thicker in the landing than it was before
01:48:43 before a firefighter was tall he told us you have to leave the building get out
01:48:48 get out I told him that we had tried to leave the building already that I had my young son in the flat and that we had considered it was too unsafe when we left before I explained that I wanted to
01:48:59 left before I explained that I wanted to try and leave the building but there was too much smoke he did not respond to what I said and simply shouted out he did not give us any advice about how to get out or that we should use any wet towels to cover our faces or suggest
01:49:11 towels to cover our faces or suggest anything to help with the smoke I believe that as we were talking to the firefighter smoke came into our flat from the landing however I can't recall this with absolute certainty but there
01:49:22 this with absolute certainty but there was smoke on the landing at the time we were talking as soon as the firefighter had said out my husband grabbed our son put the scarf over our child's mouth and nose in order to help with the thick smoke which we knew we would meet on the
01:49:34 smoke which we knew we would meet on the fourth and fifth floors I ran into the kitchen and I grabbed my Brita water filter I felt that my son would need it if we were able to get out of the building leaving my home for what would
01:49:47 building leaving my home for what would be the last time I locked the door behind me and ran to the stairwell with my son the firefighter did not come with us I cannot recall whether the
01:49:58 us I cannot recall whether the firefighter well I cannot recall where the firefighter went when he left the front door of our flat Abraham was running ahead of me and he had sons named in one hand and in his other hand
01:50:10 named in one hand and in his other hand he was holding the scarf up to son's mouth and nose there was gray smoke on the landing but I do not recall it being difficult to breathe on our second attempt to escape when I left the flat
01:50:22 attempt to escape when I left the flat there were none of our neighbors on the landing I pulled the door to the stairwell open Abraham had gone slightly ahead of me with some son's name
01:50:33 ahead of me with some son's name redacted and he was down the first flight of stairs by the time that I had opened the door to the stairwell I was possibly six or seven steps behind him at all times as soon as we got into the
01:50:45 at all times as soon as we got into the stairwell I recall a strong and overpowering sensation of burning in my throat as I was hit by heavy smoke I cannot recall whether it was hot or not in the stairwell I could however smell a
01:50:57 in the stairwell I could however smell a nasty poisonous smell it was like nothing I had ever smelled before the smoke was really bad it was black and thick I just concentrated on where I put my feet on the steps after the fire
01:51:10 put my feet on the steps after the fire I've become worried and nervous at any time I have smell smoke the terrible events in the thigh on the loss suffered by a community come rushing back to me I've never said before I have never before smelled anything like that awful
01:51:21 before smelled anything like that awful smell of smoke from Grenville tower we ran downstairs as quickly as we could I remember saying to myself oh my god oh my god
01:51:30 my god Jesus Christ I said this to myself half in panic the lights were on in the stairwell and I could just about see where I was going from the seventh floor
01:51:41 where I was going from the seventh floor until the fourth floor the smoke got incrementally thicker and more acrid I could feel the smoke burning and irritating the back of my throat all the way down when we reached the fourth floor of the building the smoke was
01:51:53 floor of the building the smoke was still pouring into the stairwell from the open doors of the landing leading to flats on the fourth floor the floor was wet on this level there was a firefighter by the door at the fourth floor as I could just see through the
01:52:05 floor as I could just see through the smoke he said nothing to us and I did not say anything to him he was stood holding the door open and there was thick black smoke pouring out from the hallway into the stairwell where we were I was running at such a speed plus I was
01:52:20 I was running at such a speed plus I was so panicked and scared that I did not take any time to stop and look for any great length of time to see what he was doing after I passed the fourth floor the smoke started to get less dense and less thick it became incremental II less
01:52:33 less thick it became incremental II less toxic and acrid as would reach the lower floors of the building mercifully there was little smoke when we reached the lobby area on the ground floor of the tower mr. chairman that's where I intend
01:52:45 tower mr. chairman that's where I intend to pause reading from that statement yes thank you very much the next statement that we need to put into the record is
01:52:56 that we need to put into the record is at I WS four zeros one double zero three and it is the statement of Michael Thomas Phillip Paramus a VN
01:53:08 he was living in flat 45 on the seventh floor and he exited the building at a time of 124 the statement has no
01:53:19 time of 124 the statement has no exhibits to come with it but if we go to the last page the tenth page please page 10
01:53:27 10 it has a statement of truth it's signed and dated the 17th of May 2018 and to give some background mr. Parmar Savion
01:53:39 give some background mr. Parmar Savion had moved into Grenville tower in 2016 he was living there at the time of the fire with his partner Hana West and her daughter if I could take you mr.
01:53:51 daughter if I could take you mr. chairman to paragraph 19 in the statement which deals it's page six and it deals with the night of the fire on
01:54:04 it deals with the night of the fire on the night of 14th of June 2017 the first indication which I recall that there was a fire or something else unusual was happening was a smell of plastic this
01:54:15 happening was a smell of plastic this was at approximately 1:00 a.m. on the 14th of June 2017 I was in bed at the time but awake watching a film both my partner and her daughter were
01:54:26 both my partner and her daughter were asleep smoke alarm in flat 45 did not activate at the time nor did I hear a smoke alarm activated in any neighboring flat immediately I realised there was a
01:54:37 flat immediately I realised there was a fire in Grand Hotel I woke up my partner and her daughter and we evacuated the block I believe at this stage the actual location of the fire was three floors above the floor on which flat forty five
01:54:48 above the floor on which flat forty five was located which is the 7th floor a smoke appeared to change colors as the fire progressed the color of the smoke appear to be blue at the time that explosions which I assume were caused by gas occurred in the black and the smoke
01:55:01 gas occurred in the black and the smoke then appeared to take on orange red and yellow shades smoke was very dense and also took on shades of black white and grey I did not actually see the fire
01:55:12 grey I did not actually see the fire spread outside of the block and I did not take any pictures or recordings of the fire the fire appeared to spread upwards from the fourth floor of Grand Hotel
01:55:20 Hotel before engulfing the whole building within 15 to 20 minutes of evacuating Grenfell tower the whole building appeared to be ablaze and the fire was producing a distinctly acrid smell apart
01:55:33 producing a distinctly acrid smell apart from the flames the entire building appeared to also be engulfed in smoke I did not call 999 as in the panic I left my phone in the flat the maximum time I remained in the flat before evacuating
01:55:45 remained in the flat before evacuating with my partner her daughter was five minutes as we were making our way down the stairs to evacuate I definitely recall a person in uniform who I assumed as a firefighter shouted
01:55:56 who I assumed as a firefighter shouted stay in your flats or worse that effect I did not have any contact with firefighters before vacating the flat prior to the fire flat 45 was in a good
01:56:07 prior to the fire flat 45 was in a good state of decorative repair I was informed after the fire that there was fire present in flat 45 I was unable to do anything to stop the fire spreading there was no actual smoke in flat 45
01:56:18 there was no actual smoke in flat 45 prior to our evacuation but there was dense smoke on the landings and stairs we did not take any possessions with us when we evacuated the flat we were in genuine fear for our lives and were
01:56:29 genuine fear for our lives and were completely focused on leaving the block we did not take any protective clothing when we evacuated to protect my partner's child from smoke inhalation I covered her with my dressing-gown as we made our way down the stairs there was
01:56:42 made our way down the stairs there was nobody left in the flat following our evacuation no one helped us to evacuate I think the front door of our flat was left open when we evacuated and no one provided any advice or assistance about
01:56:53 provided any advice or assistance about evacuation procedures as we left the flat the smoke was quite dense on the landing and stairs I was aware of other person's probably neighbours on the landing I felt very scared but focused
01:57:05 landing I felt very scared but focused on protecting my partner and her daughter and just getting out of the block as quickly as possible I was holding my partner's daughter and Hannah and my partner was in front of me I was not aware a large number of other
01:57:17 not aware a large number of other residents on the stairs as we evacuated the smoke caused an acrid smell and I was aware of this acrid taste as I breathed although there was smoke on the landing I did not see any actual flames
01:57:29 landing I did not see any actual flames because of the smoke I did not see any other flak doors on the land as we evacuated to the best of my recollection I saw three other people on the landing as we evacuate a flat
01:57:40 the landing as we evacuate a flat forty-five I believe one of these persons was a firefighter this was the person who shouted get back to your flats I did not respond to this advice my only concern was to evacuate with my
01:57:51 my only concern was to evacuate with my partner and her child as quickly as possible I had to open the door between the landing and the stairs and we immediately descended the stairs I could hear people screaming because of the
01:58:02 hear people screaming because of the thick smoke I could not actually see my feet until we reached the second floor I could only see about two steps in front of me until we reached the lower floors I did not use the handrail and as I was
01:58:13 I did not use the handrail and as I was holding and his name redacted of his West's daughter I could not say if I could see my outstretched hand I held my breath for as long as possible between breaths to avoid inhaling the smoke the
01:58:26 breaths to avoid inhaling the smoke the temperature was very high i perspired it took approximately ten minutes to evacuate the building stairs were not slippery and there were no obstructions blocking our path it did not occur to me
01:58:37 blocking our path it did not occur to me across my mind to evacuate by the lift as I knew that this could potentially present a greater danger and impair our escape we immediately made our way down the stairs and left the block by the
01:58:48 the stairs and left the block by the communal doors which were open when we got out of Granville tower we worship shepherded to a nearby block then to Kent Chelsea in Kensington Hall and then to the Latimer Road Christian Center as
01:59:01 to the Latimer Road Christian Center as we move from one location to another we spoke to other residents and people watching the fire and that's where I'll stop the next statement to put on the
01:59:14 stop the next statement to put on the record is the statement of Hannah West we've just heard who was living in flat
01:59:25 we've just heard who was living in flat 45 with her daughter and her partner whose statement we've just read and she in her statement explains that she'd moved into flat 45 in the spring of 2016 statement references iws six zeros 21
01:59:41 statement references iws six zeros 21 there are no exhibits to put on the wreck Lord but it's a 12-page statement and if we go to the last page please page 12 it has a
01:59:52 last page please page 12 it has a statement of truth it is signed and it is dated the 24th of April 2018 it's generally again if I would like to just read a few paragraphs from this statement and if I go to page 3
02:00:05 statement and if I go to page 3 paragraph 15 please if I say the name of miss West's daughter has been redacted from this statement so as we come to it
02:00:17 from this statement so as we come to it I'll just refer to miss her as Miss West's daughter on the evening 13th of June 2017 Mickey my daughter and I were at home in the flat I put my daughter to bed at about 8 p.m.
02:00:29 bed at about 8 p.m. Mikio and I watch TV for a bit until I felt really tired and went to bed at about 10:30 p.m. I was opened up by Mickey saying babe babe there's a fire Mickey was shouting and sounding scared
02:00:42 Mickey was shouting and sounding scared which was unusual I was half asleep I think this must have been about 1:20 a.m. because I think we got out of the tower at 1:30 a.m. I said what's going on
02:00:52 on i sat up in bed our bed face the bedroom door and the bedroom doors opposite the front door the bedroom door was open and I could see smoke coming through the front door smoke was gray
02:01:04 front door smoke was gray it was quite thick but I could see through it it was scary to see that I was confused and I was panicking thinking about my daughter it smelt just like normal smoke I was still half
02:01:16 like normal smoke I was still half asleep but remember thinking what the is going on I got out of bed I was wearing a grey oxford university t-shirt and underwear Mickey was wearing a black dressing-gown and dark-colored box shorts I moved
02:01:29 and dark-colored box shorts I moved quickly I knew I had no time to waste even as I came out of the bedroom the smoke was getting thicker Mickey got my daughter from her bedroom and wrapped her in his dressing gown my daughter was
02:01:40 her in his dressing gown my daughter was wearing a dark-colored nightie that came down to just below her knee Nicki put me in front of me and guided me forward in front of him as all three of us came out of the front door we didn't take
02:01:51 of the front door we didn't take anything with us we knew we had to get out fast as there was smoke in the flat as we came out of the flat I heard someone say get out get out but I could not tell who this person was or where he
02:02:02 not tell who this person was or where he was at that point it was definitely a male voice in the lobby I was aware of my neighbors an elderly Spanish or Portuguese couple carrying suitcases I'm pretty sure we're in front of him as we
02:02:14 pretty sure we're in front of him as we made our way to the staircase I was not aware of anyone else in the lobby we knew that the stairs were to our left just around the corner from our flat we made our way in that direction without
02:02:25 made our way in that direction without needing to discuss it smoke on the landing was cloudy but not thick it was though getting thicker and thicker even in the short time it took for us to get from our flat to the staircase the
02:02:38 from our flat to the staircase the lights in the lobby were on we came out of the door and made our way towards the staircase although it was smoky I was able to see but not far I went towards the staircase relying upon my memory
02:02:50 the staircase relying upon my memory house in front with Mickey and my daughter behind as I got towards the door to the stairwell I saw a firefighter on his knees holding the door opened the stairwell as I saw the
02:03:01 door opened the stairwell as I saw the firefighter I pulled my t-shirt up over my mouth and nose this was because the smoke was getting thicker and I didn't want to breathe it in my t-shirt was now across half of my face I was quite close
02:03:14 across half of my face I was quite close to the door to the staircase before I saw the firefighter the landings are not large anyway I was almost within touching distance of him when I first saw him it was his uniform that stuck
02:03:25 saw him it was his uniform that stuck out to me I did not stop I just continued towards the staircase but I can remember the sheer look of fear and dread on his face to the best of my recollection he was a white man I can't
02:03:36 recollection he was a white man I can't remember what color his helmet was but I do recall that he was wearing a helmet I do not know what he was doing there I was focused on getting out he was holding the door open he was squatting
02:03:47 holding the door open he was squatting with his back to the open door the door opened into the stairwell there was no one immediately in front of me I could not work out why he was doing that holding the door open it was easy to
02:03:58 holding the door open it was easy to open that door I could hear shouting and screaming I'm not sure whether the noise of people shouting screaming was from above or below this point I heard shouts of help and
02:04:09 this point I heard shouts of help and hello I now believe it must have been this firefighter who I heard say get out get out as there was no one else around I did not hear him saying anything other than that there was definitely no hose
02:04:21 than that there was definitely no hose with him that I saw I did not touch anything before entering the stairwell once we got to the stairs the smoke on the stairwell was really thick and getting thicker it was worse than the
02:04:32 getting thicker it was worse than the lobby the heat was intense my priority was to get off those stairs there was a lot of commotion I could hear screams the lights were on in the stairwell but
02:04:44 the lights were on in the stairwell but it became dark as we made our way down I believe lights on my floor stayed on but there was no light lower down the heat on that stairwell was intense I remember other people on the stairs there was a
02:04:55 other people on the stairs there was a bit of pushing and shoving I did not find my way blocked by other people it was dark and hard to tell what was happening everyone knew it was serious everyone's aim was to get out as soon as
02:05:06 everyone's aim was to get out as soon as possible
02:05:07 possible it was definitely not a stampede the stairs were not slippery I did not slip I knew that there was no time I wasn't going too quickly because I did not want
02:05:18 going too quickly because I did not want to fall on the stone stairs I was barefooted I was trying to go fast but I could not see where I was going I was holding onto the handrail because I couldn't see the steps the handrail felt cold to the touch I think it's a metal
02:05:31 cold to the touch I think it's a metal handle when we were going down the stairs there was thick smoke and as we went down the heat became more and more intense on the stairs the smoke was thick thick enough that you didn't want to breathe it in and thicker than the
02:05:43 to breathe it in and thicker than the smoke that there had been on the landing he got thicker the further down we went I still had my t-shirt up over my nose and mouth my eyes were burning my throat
02:05:54 and mouth my eyes were burning my throat was burning I was trying to keep my eyes open I did not look backwards but at one point I felt make he touch my shoulder I knew he had my daughter in his arms I
02:06:05 knew he had my daughter in his arms I kept holding onto the row handrail I was right in front of him Mickey has told me that he put me in front of him as we came out of the flat because he did not want to lose me on the stairs
02:06:16 want to lose me on the stairs I knew the layout of the I would have been able to walk down those stairs with my eyes shut there about 12 steps on each flight I wasn't talking to making because I didn't want to breathe in any of the smoke
02:06:28 to breathe in any of the smoke I heard loads of screams in the stairs there was a lot of activity screaming shouting the calling out of people's names
02:06:35 names I cannot remember any particularly names being shouted out the noise was mostly happening above us but I could hear commotion below us as well I could feel bodies push past there were firefighters
02:06:47 bodies push past there were firefighters present I remember seeing yellow helmets it's a clear image my eyes were burning there was just so much action on the stairs to the best of my recollection there was a fighter going firefighter
02:06:58 there was a fighter going firefighter going up the stairs as I came down but it was difficult to tell what was happening my strongest sense was my hearing there was a lot of panic and fear on that staircase two people can
02:07:10 fear on that staircase two people can pass if they make room for one another I would estimate that there are about three or four people whom I came into contact with as I went down the snow stairs
02:07:18 stairs including the firefighter coming up so two or three coming down I do not recall them saying anything to me as they passed I was dazed from being asleep everyone was confused
02:07:29 everyone was confused I cannot say which froy it was that there were no lights and we had to continue down in darkness it felt like a nightmare everyone everything was
02:07:40 nightmare everyone everything was getting more and more intense I just wanted to get my daughter Mickey and me out at this time we didn't even know what had happened time was moving really slowly even though it was probably ten
02:07:52 slowly even though it was probably ten seconds since we left the flat it felt like ten minutes when we got to the bottom of the stairs and opened the door everything was light and there was no smoke It was as if nothing had happened
02:08:03 smoke It was as if nothing had happened it was like coming out of a nightmare that's the only way I can describe it we went through a door as I came out of the staircase into the lobby even before leaving the tower everything seemed
02:08:14 leaving the tower everything seemed normal
02:08:14 normal the lights were on there was no smoke It was as if there was nothing wrong I went through the two doors and onto the stairs on the outside of the building as
02:08:25 stairs on the outside of the building as we came out of our flat onto the landing I would describe the smoke as similar to the diagram Mach d that I've been shown and that when I went into the staircase it was like the diagram marked e I pause them as
02:08:37 diagram marked e I pause them as chairman sorry no just for the record that's a step a reference the smoke distress descriptor that's been provided by the inquiry to witnesses
02:08:44 witnesses I believe the firefighter might have been on his knees as there was less smoke at that level he may have had exigent I don't know in the staircase I had to put myself in the smoke to be able to get downstairs I would say the
02:08:56 able to get downstairs I would say the smoke was gray on the landing but that in the staircase it was thick toxic smoke on a scale of 10 with black being 10 and clear glass being zero I would describe the smoke in the stairs as a
02:09:08 describe the smoke in the stairs as a seven and in the landing outside my flat as a five as I left the tower I could see the firefighters running in when I first got down there wasn't a lot of firefighters there there was only a
02:09:19 firefighters there there was only a couple I can remember the firefighters running in and a firefighter with a hose outside but the water wasn't coming out and that's where I proposed to stop reading from that statement there are
02:09:32 reading from that statement there are just 3 more statements to put on the record this afternoon they are statements from three members of the Jamel batten family who lived in flat 10 on floor 3 of Grenville tower
02:09:44 flat 10 on floor 3 of Grenville tower and the first statement I will put on the record is the witness statement of the Moon bubay Jamel Vuitton the reference is at I WS 6 0 7 8 there are
02:09:58 reference is at I WS 6 0 7 8 there are no exhibits accompanying it mrs. Jamel Burton was in her home on the night of the fire and she exited at 1:24 it's a nine page statement on page nine
02:10:11 it's a nine page statement on page nine if we go to that we see that there is a statement of truth the statement is signed and is dated the first of May 2018 yes
02:10:22 2018 yes in summary
02:10:29 mrs. Jamal Vuitton lived with her two children AHA and soldered in flat ten of Grenfell Tao and they'd moved there in August 2016
02:10:40 August 2016 mrs. Jamal button is disabled she has mobility issues and her daughter Sahar was her registered carer on the night of the fire she was home alone her two children having gone out that evening to
02:10:52 children having gone out that evening to the cinema if I could just pick it up please with mrs. jam / jam / sans
02:11:03 please with mrs. jam / jam / sans account all the that the night of the fire at paragraph 25 on page 4 yes she recalls just that she she went to bed at
02:11:15 recalls just that she she went to bed at around 11 p.m. and if we start with paragraph 25 it continues shortly after I was woken up by shouting and screaming but I could not figure out what was being said through my bedroom window I
02:11:27 being said through my bedroom window I saw small pieces of fire were falling I could see this from my bed I thought the person in the flat above may have accidentally set something on fire such as a pillow and that they were shaking
02:11:38 as a pillow and that they were shaking it out of the window I do not know who lives in the flat above me as I thought it was unimportant I went back to sleep I take sleeping pills which means I can go to sleep quickly at around 120 to 130
02:11:51 go to sleep quickly at around 120 to 130 a.m. I was woken by a very loud bang as if something hit the floor of the flat above me it sounded like bombing I got out of bed went to the living room and looked through the window which faces
02:12:03 looked through the window which faces the gym and saw a fire engine outside I could also see hundreds of people gathered below I saw a firefighter spraying water from a hose onto the building I could see big
02:12:14 a hose onto the building I could see big flames covering the entire window facing the gym burning pieces were falling from above my flat and past my window the flames were moving left from the window facing the gym to the direction of the school I realized the fire was serious
02:12:28 school I realized the fire was serious and I started shaking it was not only a mattress on fire as I had initially thought the water that the firefighter were spraying could only reach my window that faced the school he could not reach the other side of the building
02:12:40 the other side of the building the water from the hose also could not reach any higher than the level of my flat I could feel the heat from the fire was slightly sweating I went from one room to thee to other and did not know
02:12:52 room to thee to other and did not know what to do I was shaking I could smell burning from the side of the children's bedrooms but there was no smoke inside the flat I picked up my handbag which contained the key to the flat and I picked up my
02:13:04 key to the flat and I picked up my mobile phone so that I could call my children those who switched off the electricity in the fuse box to the right of the front door I then hurried out of the flat shutting the door behind me I
02:13:15 the flat shutting the door behind me I did not lock the door I was in such a rush to leave that I forgot my stick which I used to help me walk there was no one else in the hallway outside my flat the lights were on and I could see
02:13:26 flat the lights were on and I could see clearly I went towards the left and press the button to call it when the lift arrived and the door opened it was full of people and there was not space for me to fit in people were screaming I
02:13:38 for me to fit in people were screaming I decide to go down the stairs instead this was very difficult for me without my stick I had to sit on each stair and bump my way down I then turned around and crawl down backwards using my hands
02:13:50 and crawl down backwards using my hands and legs the lights were on and I could see clearly there was some smoke and I could hear shouting in the stairwell I knew now that it was serious I did not
02:14:02 knew now that it was serious I did not see anyone else while I was going down the stairs until I reached the first floor on the first floor two firefighters past me heading up the stairs it seemed quite relaxed they were
02:14:13 stairs it seemed quite relaxed they were not wearing full protective clothing and they were carrying boxes in their hands they did not ask me if I needed help I asked them what was happening and they told me to leave eventually I reached
02:14:25 told me to leave eventually I reached the ground floor I think in total it took me around 10 to 15 minutes I think I left the building at approximately 1:20 a.m. I do not think I inhaled any smoke but I was slightly short of breath
02:14:36 smoke but I was slightly short of breath because I was panicked I did not hear any alarms while I was in my flat or in the rest of the building no one told me to leave it was my own decision to exit the building
02:14:47 the building that's all I propose to read from miss Jamal misses Jamal Vuitton's statement but if I could turn now to the statement of her son Sajid as I explained he was out with his sister on
02:15:03 explained he was out with his sister on the evening of 13th of June but he received they'd gone to the cinema and he received a call from they received a call from their mother around 1:00 a.m. informing them about the fire and
02:15:15 informing them about the fire and they've then returned home immediately and found their mother outside there's just two parts of the statement that I would wish to highlight today and that's
02:15:29 would wish to highlight today and that's so before I do that what I need to do of course is formally put it into the record and this statement references iw s60 68 no it has an exhibit as part of
02:15:41 s60 68 no it has an exhibit as part of the statement which is a floor plan so may I just have a movie
02:15:55 so I got the reference wrong but if I do start again with that the the reference for Sgt visan statement is iws 4 zero
02:16:06 for Sgt visan statement is iws 4 zero five zeros nine hundred if I put that in it has as I've said an exhibit that a cut that is part of the statement which is a floor plan of flat ten statement is
02:16:18 is a floor plan of flat ten statement is eight pages and if we go to ask for a
02:16:29 eight pages and if we go to ask for a break I'm going to start that all over again to put onto the record the witness statement of Sajid Jamel vatten the correct statement reference is iws six
02:16:42 correct statement reference is iws six zeros 68 it has as part of the statement an exhibit which is on page nine and which is a floor plan but if we go to the page eight of the statement shows
02:16:58 the page eight of the statement shows that it is carries a statement of truth it is dated the 17th of April 2018 and is signed as I explained mr. chairman
02:17:11 is signed as I explained mr. chairman Sajid wasn't in flat ten on the night of the fire he had gone to the cinema with his sister but whilst they were out they received a call from their mother whose
02:17:23 received a call from their mother whose statement we've just put into the record and that was to tell them about the fire and they then obviously returned back home immediately and they were able to meet their mother outside but if I then
02:17:37 meet their mother outside but if I then just pick it up please at page five paragraph 23 yes I eventually found my mum about 30
02:17:50 I eventually found my mum about 30 minutes after we got to Grenfell cannot be sure what time I found my mum it could have been about 1:40 a.m. I was so relieved to find her she was with the group of people from the tower
02:18:01 group of people from the tower the police were pushing people back trying to clear the area they put barriers up as they thought the building was going to collapse and they wanted to ensure those of us outside the tower was safe I could hear people
02:18:12 tower was safe I could hear people speaking on their mobile phones to their families in the tower I was telling him to say to whoever was in their homes in the tower that they needed to put wet towels on the floor under the doors to keep the fire out they also needed to
02:18:25 keep the fire out they also needed to keep Lowe from moved to the next paragraph at about 2:00 a.m. I heard an explosion on the other side of the building
02:18:32 building I'm not really sure of the time I assumed that it was an explosion I thought it was a gas bottle that exploded after that explosion I could
02:18:43 exploded after that explosion I could see many windows were cracked the noise were noises were awful much louder than before the fire was expanding throughout the building we were now all being evacuated from the area I could not see
02:18:54 evacuated from the area I could not see the tower anymore chef I then moved down to paragraph 29 Sajid then says I went back to where my mum was she do not appear to be breathing I shouted to anyone who would listen to me help help
02:19:06 anyone who would listen to me help help my mum is looking for her breath I saw an ambulance now so lucky that someone was there to offer me an oxygen mask I had to beg for it everyone including the ambulance personnel and firefighters all seemed so
02:19:18 personnel and firefighters all seemed so shocked and not sure what they were doing I gave my mum the oxygen mask so that she could breathe and that's as far as I proposed to read from that statement if I may and the last
02:19:30 statement if I may and the last statement meant to put on the record today is that of sahaja mile button Sajid system the statement I hope I get
02:19:41 Sajid system the statement I hope I get it right
02:19:41 it right it's references I WS five zeros three to five and
02:19:49 it says if we go to page seven carries us on that page cow is a statement truth is signed and is dated the 18th of May 2018 as part of the statement there is
02:20:02 2018 as part of the statement there is incorporated within it a floor plan of flat 10 as Saha was with her brother and outside the tower on the night of the fire
02:20:12 fire but it's helpful if I could just take you mr. chairman to page 3 of the statement in paragraphs 13 the flat did
02:20:26 statement in paragraphs 13 the flat did not have a balcony and the windows could not be open fully in order to be used in this escape route the main door of the flat was self locking it would spring shut but I usually pushed it shut at the end I'm not sure if it would have closed
02:20:39 end I'm not sure if it would have closed by itself fully if I had not done this on leaving the flat you could see a rubbish chute on your left next to a storage area and beside the storage there was a staircase and on your right there were two lifts a staircase and the
02:20:51 there were two lifts a staircase and the lifts were opposite each other if you went down a few steps down the stairs on my floor you could see a door which was self closing and led to the main staircase by using the staircase and going down you reach the bottom of the
02:21:02 going down you reach the bottom of the stairs that was adorned the left-hand side to the main entrance and the on the right-hand side there was a Doherty outside of the building to the back the main door to the tower was an automatic door which was installed about a month
02:21:14 door which was installed about a month before the fire my front door was not replaced during the time I lived at Granville Tower and there was no damage to it it had two hinges on the side there was a gap between the bottom of
02:21:26 there was a gap between the bottom of the door and the floor and there was a draft seal fitted we had a letterbox which sprung shut after being opened all rooms in my flat had doors which opened and closed and if I finished reading
02:21:39 and closed and if I finished reading there but just had perhaps as a final point that the jamb overturned family had moved into flat 10 in August 2016 mr. chairman that is all of the reading
02:21:50 mr. chairman that is all of the reading for today right thank you very much and I think it's right said this morning I'm very grateful to all those who've taken so much time and trouble to produce state of the
02:22:01 trouble to produce state of the statements that you've been reading extract from this afternoon I'm very struck by the fact that many of them are obviously very details very lengthy and
02:22:12 obviously very details very lengthy and in all cases they've been compiled with great care and then they will all form part of the evidence before the inquiry and will be taken into account when the inquiry makes its findings Thank You mr.
02:22:24 inquiry makes its findings Thank You mr. chairman thank you very much so that's all we one final point in relation to tomorrow we have two witnesses who will be heard tomorrow but
02:22:36 witnesses who will be heard tomorrow but we were due to hear also the oral evidence from mr. Hamid Wahby I hope those here have seen a letter which has
02:22:47 those here have seen a letter which has gone out from the inquiry but just to confirm mr. Wahby will not be giving evidence tomorrow but he will be heard later on in the program right so we'll have another witness at 10 o'clock tomorrow very good thank you all very
02:22:59 tomorrow very good thank you all very much 10 o'clock tomorrow then for you
02:23:04 you