Continuation of Bereaved, Survivors and Residents testimony describing conditions inside Grenfell Tower during the fire, including experiences with no water supply and escape through extreme smoke.
00:00:03 [Music]
00:00:13 that the evidence
00:00:24 thank you very much just let it sit down make yourself comfortable
00:00:36 yeah yeah
00:00:41 right yes yes Thank You mr. chairman this is never good afternoon can I ask you please to give the Chairman your full name flora Nadal thank you and can I say first of all
00:00:53 thank you and can I say first of all thank you very much to you for coming here today and assisting us with our investigations we're very grateful to you okay I know that at times during our
00:01:05 you okay I know that at times during our evidence it may be may be difficult to remember things if you need to break at any time we can take a break and we will aim I think to sit in 45 minute chunks so that you can have an opportunity to
00:01:18 so that you can have an opportunity to take a break okay yeah if I ask a question and you want me to repeat it or put the question in a different way then I'm happy to do that just all you have to do is say could you
00:01:30 just all you have to do is say could you please say it again or something like that okay um I will say when I'm asking questions and you're answering questions I might be looking at my screen or on mine your statement
00:01:42 at my screen or on mine your statement it doesn't mean I'm not listening to what you're saying I'm listening very very interestingly more your or you're telling us can I start at mrs. Neda with your first witness statement which is
00:01:54 your first witness statement which is iws Quinn tuple 0 8 8 7 and is that the first page of your first witness statement yes and can I ask you please
00:02:09 statement yes and can I ask you please to go to the last page of that statement which is at page 30
00:02:19 and you'll see a signature on that page above a date 3rd of June 2018 can you confirm that that's your signature yes it is and have you had an opportunity to
00:02:31 it is and have you had an opportunity to read this statement recently yeah and can you confirm that the contents are true yes thank you and I'm going to confirm for the record that there are no
00:02:42 confirm for the record that there are no exhibits to this statement now you also I think prepared a second witness statement for the inquiry date of the 16th of October 2018 and and that has a reference of iws Quinn tuple for a
00:02:55 reference of iws Quinn tuple for a quadruple 0 1 1 3 3 quadruple 0 1 1 3 3
00:03:04 is that the first page of your second witness statement yes and if you go to the next page which should be page 2 there's a signature above a date of the
00:03:15 there's a signature above a date of the 16th of October 2018 is that your signature yes and have you had an opportunity to read this statement recently and can you confirm that its contents are true yes thank you now
00:03:28 contents are true yes thank you now we've heard some evidence this morning from your son Farhad and I don't want to repeat a lot of what he's told us very helpfully this morning but I'm going to
00:03:40 helpfully this morning but I'm going to go over some of the material of the ground again your family home at the time of the fire in June 2017 was flat 2:05 205 on the 23rd floor yes and I
00:03:54 2:05 205 on the 23rd floor yes and I think you moved into Grenfell tower on the 17th of May too
00:04:03 well can you tell me when you didn't move into Grenfell town 20 Knopf May 1999 1999 yeah right now your son has
00:04:14 1999 1999 yeah right now your son has confirmed that you were tenants of the flat in Granville tower yeah do you remember who the landlord landlords were
00:04:23 contingency right the council can certainly a council now before I turn to the events of 14th of June 2017 I want
00:04:34 the events of 14th of June 2017 I want to ask you about what you knew thought you should do in the event of a fire can I ask that the witness first please be shown inq six zeros 93
00:05:00 my first question mrs. Neda is have you ever seen this sign or something like it before yeah it's just few few months
00:05:13 before yeah it's just few few months before the fire right we're worth the refurbishment okay after the refurbishment and where did you see this
00:05:24 refurbishment and where did you see this sign it was next to the door lift on your floor yes did you see this sign
00:05:36 your floor yes did you see this sign anywhere else in Grenfell tower at that time I didn't remember okay and they are there two floors I didn't remember
00:05:47 there two floors I didn't remember apart from this notice were you aware of any information from any organization or any / any any individual any person
00:05:58 any / any any individual any person about what you should do if there was a fire in the block not really but
00:06:10 fire in the block not really but sometimes my son always watching TV and he has lots of information about the fire everything the Royal he watching
00:06:24 fire everything the Royal he watching but always he said when the fire happened you shouldn't use the lift and
00:06:33 we never think about to stay but fell out because I always think if the fire
00:06:44 out because I always think if the fire happened how we could do but we never think about this one - but we have should do right
00:06:56 should do right I see I'm
00:07:04 I see I'm just following that up a little bit more as at June 2017 at the time of the fire what what what was your understanding of what you should do if there was a fire
00:07:16 what you should do if there was a fire somewhere in the block you have to be you have to leave the building
00:07:24 because long time ago when when we came the first time every floor had a boat
00:07:36 the first time every floor had a boat wide berth in front of the left and there was lots of letters they put the TMO and formation and everything
00:07:50 TMO and formation and everything including the the fire regulation of London fire safety it was a long time ago but I can't remember which when but
00:08:03 ago but I can't remember which when but year was after after maybe 10 years or 12 years we couldn't see any move that
00:08:15 12 years we couldn't see any move that letters or the the paper they put on the boat it was completely empty and off the
00:08:26 boat it was completely empty and off the refurbishment we just got this one few months before the fire that's it did you see this sign anywhere else in the building which one the sign that we
00:08:37 the building which one the sign that we have on on the screen this one I had I didn't I don't remember for any flood but maybe in-ground fluid maybe I I
00:08:49 but maybe in-ground fluid maybe I I can't remember and when in the old days you had this whiteboard was where was that in the building every floor has got when you come out from the left before
00:09:04 when you come out from the left before the refurbishment there was in front of the left was wall and though the boat was
00:09:14 was hanging on the wall right it was like as clean glass wood I'm going to show you a notice and see if you recognize it could
00:09:27 notice and see if you recognize it could the witness please be shown inq quintuple zero five double zero
00:09:43 yes I'm sick forgive me I am corrected by mr. Rawat iws Quinn tuple zero five
00:09:54 mr. Rawat iws Quinn tuple zero five double zero
00:10:08 mrs. Neda do you recognize this notice
00:10:15 help something like that but I I can't remember but something like that they stick on the exactly this boat always
00:10:28 stick on the exactly this boat always they put the sign or some information when something happened to the building
00:10:37 it might be that one okay thank you very much
00:10:42 much did you ever have any discussions with the TMO or anybody else about a personal evacuation plan for you in case in case
00:10:53 evacuation plan for you in case in case there was a fire in the block I didn't speak with the PMO or someone the only person I was always keep asking and tell
00:11:08 person I was always keep asking and tell my husband when the first time we got that flat and we moved under the flat I was thinking there is no way out if the
00:11:20 was thinking there is no way out if the fire happened and I was asking too many times if the fire happened especially our electric meter was just next to our
00:11:35 our electric meter was just next to our outdoor and I was thinking always if that one has if electric shock happened and the fire rules how we could leave
00:11:49 and the fire rules how we could leave the building I was always asking him and he was saying I hope to not happen that but we never think and never asked what
00:12:01 but we never think and never asked what we have to do but during the refurbishment we had always every week meeting all the resident heart meeting
00:12:14 meeting all the resident heart meeting with the team and we are keep telling them there the building is not safe because of the
00:12:26 the building is not safe because of the fire exit we only just have a staircase not any other ways to go out if the fire happened they did it and listen to us
00:12:40 happened they did it and listen to us did you go to those meetings yeah I was going dude
00:12:49 and I'm [Music]
00:12:57 did they respond to did they respond to the point that was made about not feeling safe that you described because
00:13:08 feeling safe that you described because of the fire exit no now can I turn to them to the night of the fire itself the night of the 13th and then the 14th of
00:13:20 night of the 13th and then the 14th of June 13th morning of the 14th if you go to paragraph 20 of your witness statement your first witness statement please at the bottom of page 4 you say
00:13:34 please at the bottom of page 4 you say there that you've been visiting your sister Zahra and her family on the evening of the 13th of June 2017 and you came back to grenfell tower in the early
00:13:46 came back to grenfell tower in the early hours of the following morning 14th of June and a paragraph 22 you say that you've seen CT CCTV image of you
00:13:58 you've seen CT CCTV image of you entering the tower at 1252 can i having shown you that and reminding you of that can I just ask you when you when he first came into the to the tower at that
00:14:10 first came into the to the tower at that time did you come through the main entrance yeah you did did you when you came into the main entrance did you hear anything unusual it was normal as usual every everything around the
00:14:26 as usual every everything around the tower was normal right not fire engine not the people was it it was normal we couldn't see anything not
00:14:37 was normal we couldn't see anything not noise it was noise from the outside month elation I don't know which one was that but if everything was in the would
00:14:51 that but if everything was in the would Marvin what we write in today you say you say there was noise from the outside ventilation to cook when you came into the lobby could you hear noise on the outside of the build of nth elation
00:15:02 outside of the build of nth elation noise on the outside of the building as always I don't know what what was that
00:15:12 that always like a fan was running or turn on 24 hours
00:15:22 24 hours it was always been there and be used with that but the inside the building
00:15:35 with that but the inside the building when we went there even ground floor inside the ground floor in front of the lift also was okay which I we we used
00:15:47 lift also was okay which I we we used the left and the only noise when we reached to 23rd floor our floor we just
00:16:00 reached to 23rd floor our floor we just noticed there was noise I'm going to ask you a few questions about that in a moment but before I do can I just get back to the outside ventilation noise that you said was running on 24 hours
00:16:15 that you said was running on 24 hours when you were standing outside the building do you remember where that noise that fan noise would come from normally mostly in front of the venue is
00:16:28 normally mostly in front of the venue is in front of the entrance to the top of the entrance something and also makes -
00:16:41 the entrance something and also makes - in front of the entrance there was we couldn't see there was basement or something
00:16:50 something yes table did like like a windows for that one on the floor the noise was
00:17:02 that one on the floor the noise was coming from there as well and also the hair was coming from there as well saying yes thank I see now in paragraph 23 of your
00:17:16 I see now in paragraph 23 of your statement on page 5 you describe how you came home and the lifts were working and you all went straight up to your flat in the lift and then you say when the lift
00:17:29 the lift and then you say when the lift door opened on our floor we could hear a noise coming from the ventilation system
00:17:37 now I'm going to show you a photograph of the inside of the lobby in the building but before I do can I just ask you mrs. never are you all right to be
00:17:48 you mrs. never are you all right to be showing photographs of inside Grandville tower yeah okay well it's some it let me show you two photographs side-by-side if
00:17:59 show you two photographs side-by-side if I can be a quadruple zero two five one three and quadruple zero to five one four
00:18:18 now I should just tell you mrs. Neda these photographs were taken after the fire from or on floor six but I just
00:18:31 fire from or on floor six but I just want to ask you about the events that you heard when you came out onto floor 23 having come up in the lift and the left hand photograph on the screen you see is looking with the left with lifts
00:18:47 see is looking with the left with lifts on the left hand side towards the north of the building and on the right hand photograph it's the other end of the lobby looking in the other direction you can see that the the vents are towards
00:18:59 can see that the the vents are towards the floor there so when you're describing noise coming from the vents I know it's a different floor but as those the vents will call the kind of vents that you heard the noise coming from yes
00:19:17 now on page six of your statement have you just turned to page six a paragraph 28
00:19:29 you you say it was a scary noise and it was extremely loud we were and then you say we were unable to hear ourselves a little to hit one another speak on outside on the landing because
00:19:41 speak on outside on the landing because of the noise and was it as loud as for example of vacuum cleaner it is so yes
00:19:52 example of vacuum cleaner it is so yes it is it was very loud if I say like airplane that much we couldn't hear each other when when we
00:20:06 couldn't hear each other when when we talk with each other on in front of the farm that's why it was very scary and I was assuming my son to a straight away
00:20:19 was assuming my son to a straight away call otherwise I couldn't go to sleep and even we couldn't hear it each other the noise and we closed the door
00:20:31 the noise and we closed the door we talked inside the flat and even when Farhat called to the TMO and we were
00:20:42 Farhat called to the TMO and we were inside the flat and the front door was closed
00:20:48 closed you could hear they're very loud then those noise how do you ever heard it had you ever heard those vents making as loud a noise as that before
00:21:02 loud a noise as that before it is like accelerating noise it's pushing and gates slowly back and pushing how can I explain that like a
00:21:17 pushing how can I explain that like a kind of pulse here as like accelerating the car was like that the noise is loud and loud and after that get slowly like
00:21:32 and loud and after that get slowly like motor getting slowly slow down and I start again moving in yeah but how often between soft and loud and then
00:21:45 often between soft and loud and then soft again would it be it not stopping the noise still the noise was okay but it is going up and down right
00:21:59 and the sound that you were hearing did it did it have was it was a low sound or a high sound both them hi son
00:22:10 a high sound both them hi son yeah both yeah you say when they the noise gate huh get down I still very loud and which do
00:22:23 get down I still very loud and which do you remember whether you ask it this way wooden was the same noise coming from both sets of vents at each end of the lobby or was was noise more in one set
00:22:36 lobby or was was noise more in one set of vents to be honest it I just feel in my power flow and also I feel just because it was very loud we we didn't
00:22:50 because it was very loud we we didn't feel that other side was as the same or not but the noise was mostly in our side
00:23:01 not but the noise was mostly in our side yes now going back a little bit in your statement and in time a page five of your statement a paragraph 24 you you
00:23:15 your statement a paragraph 24 you you say the contractors carrying out refurbishment works on the tower had installed a new ventilation system which ran every few hours to refresh the air there were occasions when it would get
00:23:26 there were occasions when it would get stuck and would make and it would make a lot of noise this happened frequently and it seemed to happen particularly on Friday evenings we usually had to wait until Monday for someone to come out and repair it now I'm interested in what you
00:23:40 repair it now I'm interested in what you mean when you say stuck when you say it would get stuck can you describe what would happen I mean when it was a
00:23:54 would happen I mean when it was a automatically open by themselves and it was still keep okay open I don't know
00:24:06 was still keep okay open I don't know how long was the turn off when it was open right but it was when the maybe it
00:24:19 open right but it was when the maybe it is whew
00:24:19 is whew 10 minutes was open to change the the hair from the floors and after that automatically got open but when most of
00:24:35 automatically got open but when most of the time when it is automatically open it is not closed back it was a stuck open person and after maybe 10 minutes
00:24:50 open person and after maybe 10 minutes is not closed closing back by themselves automatically the noise is starting
00:25:01 automatically the noise is starting afterwards and I noticed the ventilation is stuck right and open and when the ventilation was open
00:25:13 ventilation was open Ian was the noise continued yeah because I feel dohaeris here was coming right yeah and on those on occasions like that
00:25:25 yeah and on those on occasions like that at times like that did you did you hear the sound going louder and softer sometimes it was the same as one level but the night of the fire
00:25:38 but the night of the fire it was loud and going down and up right had you ever heard that down and up before Oh ones maybe toys I sing it and
00:25:51 before Oh ones maybe toys I sing it and you know
00:25:52 you know it was quite familiar for me because I always been at home especially during the day when that has happened my
00:26:04 the day when that has happened my husband and Farhad was at work our he was at uni I always been at home and I completely know familiar for me what
00:26:18 completely know familiar for me what happened to that and straightaway I called him oh this has happened again and I reported for them to come and
00:26:32 and I reported for them to come and please stop this noise and known that on that subject you had your discussions with the TMO
00:26:43 you had your discussions with the TMO because you said paragraph 26 if we can look at it well 25 perhaps is the best place to start before 26 you say I remember that on an occasion as
00:26:58 remember that on an occasion as paragraph 25
00:27:02 I remember that on an occasion when an engineer was sent to our floor by the TMO to fix the ventilation system I spoke to him he was a middle-aged man in a dark navy jacket which I think had TMO
00:27:13 a dark navy jacket which I think had TMO written on it the engineer had been on the floor above us working on the ventilation motor to stop the noise when you when you spoke to the man did he tell you what the problem was with this
00:27:24 tell you what the problem was with this ventilation system they are not working on 23rd floor because there is no way by the left to go to the roof they always
00:27:39 the left to go to the roof they always come to the top floor and 23rd followed and after that they used the stairs well there was a small door on the top
00:27:54 well there was a small door on the top of the wall next to the roof before the refurbishment they put ladder on there
00:28:06 refurbishment they put ladder on there and they used that and there is no gate also there but few months before the
00:28:18 also there but few months before the they start refurbishment they put a gate there and with grill always was locked I
00:28:29 there and with grill always was locked I am sure that the the key was only with the team hands but they will open that when we called to stop the ventilation
00:28:45 when we called to stop the ventilation because the motor of those ventilation was on the roof exactly on top of my bedroom I could hear the motor as well
00:28:56 bedroom I could hear the motor as well they and they said the motors on the roof there is two big strong motors one of the your side and the others and the
00:29:09 of the your side and the others and the other side of the ventilation that their side of our floor and they wanted to go there and fix it from the roof not
00:29:21 to go there and fix it from the roof not an hour floor and I was just watching when they used the left because I was waiting extremely - there you are coming
00:29:35 waiting extremely - there you are coming as soon as possible to disturb that noise
00:29:39 noise I was keep looking they are coming or not
00:29:43 not suddenly I saw the man with you Teemu uniform what I told him if you find out
00:29:54 uniform what I told him if you find out to stop that noise he said yes we saw that out and and I asked him why it has always happened during the weekend
00:30:07 always happened during the weekend mostly it was Friday I don't know what what is linked to the fire alarm or
00:30:21 what is linked to the fire alarm or something they said because the teenage people coming and they turn off the fire
00:30:32 people coming and they turn off the fire alarm
00:30:32 alarm and they were smoking they don't want to the smoke alarm coming on and make up noise and the ventilation when is start
00:30:49 noise and the ventilation when is start to open to take out the smoke it is a stuck I don't know I'm not sure what is
00:31:00 stuck I don't know I'm not sure what is the ventilation system links to the fire alarm he told me something like that but I don't know exactly what happened
00:31:12 I don't know exactly what happened that's very helpful
00:31:18 yoo-hoo-hoo would be the people who would be able to switch off the smoke alarm or fire alarm before refurbishment we had reception and ground floor which
00:31:30 we had reception and ground floor which security 24 hours was there they don't allowed that the teenager boy after school they are coming and using our staircase and they are drinking
00:31:46 our staircase and they are drinking smoking and make dirty our floor and put the rubbish everything and too many
00:31:57 the rubbish everything and too many times we complained for the team oh please bring back the reception for us we need security because they are doing
00:32:10 we need security because they are doing dirty there is very dirty like I can't say here but they didn't listen to us but when I even 1 o'clock in the morning
00:32:25 but when I even 1 o'clock in the morning or 2 o'clock in the morning they were there I said they are drinking and fighting with each other shouting making noise that's why I I
00:32:39 shouting making noise that's why I I said they are turning off them fire oh no instead did the tima person tell you that the outsiders in other words non
00:32:53 that the outsiders in other words non residents of the tower had been able to somehow switch off this yeah did he explain to you how they could do that right he just point under fire or not is
00:33:07 right he just point under fire or not is it because the turn of the column now
00:33:21 you know we know that Farhad called the TMO and spoke to them and we've discussed with him this morning all about that call and I think in then he
00:33:32 about that call and I think in then he came back into the flat when it was finished where were you while he was making that call do you remember which calls for you when okay let me back up a
00:33:45 calls for you when okay let me back up a little bit well Farhad called the tiara it's the the out-of-hours number at the council in fact and told them about the event making a noise yeah do you remember him
00:33:56 making a noise yeah do you remember him making that call yeah because sometimes when Farhad was at home because he was explained very well to them I told I was
00:34:08 explained very well to them I told I was telling him police called him to come and report for him yes and sometimes when he wasn't at home I was calling
00:34:19 when he wasn't at home I was calling venison but on that night on the night of the fire you you come up into the lift yeah
00:34:26 lift yeah through the lifts on to the lobby and you hear the noise and then Farhad called the council yeah when he was making that do you remember him making
00:34:38 making that do you remember him making that call yeah you do where were you what while he was making that call we were together in the sitting room but he was while he was
00:34:49 sitting room but he was while he was talking he was walking around the flat and going out out and the house dude in the lobby and coming back to the sitting
00:35:02 the lobby and coming back to the sitting room he was walking around yes okay he said he went in and out of the flat into the lobby and back in again yeah he said he said this morning you were holding the door oh yeah that's right is it yeah
00:35:14 the door oh yeah that's right is it yeah because I was I wanted to know what happened
00:35:20 happened straight away yes I was following Farhad when he was going there I will want to listen but he is saying but I couldn't hate on
00:35:32 hate on the phone speakers was love not love I was waiting but he saved me I keep follow Farhad always right while
00:35:43 I keep follow Farhad always right while he was on the phone after the call you you say and this is paragraph 31 of your
00:35:56 you say and this is paragraph 31 of your statement at the bottom of page 6
00:36:04 you say Farhad asked me what have happened and I told them that we were still waiting for the TMO engineer to arrive and he should go to sleep I went
00:36:15 arrive and he should go to sleep I went back out onto the landing this time I could smell burning it smelled to me like burning rubber
00:36:23 at that time did you did you see any smoke on the landing was clear okay and
00:36:38 you then say at paragraph at 33 on page 7 after you've described going back and
00:36:50 7 after you've described going back and go back to bed you say I could now see bits of what I thought were paper or debris on fire flying around in the air Sabo got out of bed and said yes there is a fire
00:37:06 [Music] when you which window did you look out of is that your bedroom window my vision and your bedroom faces north or thank you yeah Academy yes and when you saw
00:37:20 you yeah Academy yes and when you saw the this debris flying around was it at the level of your window wall above no no below right are below do you remember I couldn't remember but at that time I
00:37:35 I couldn't remember but at that time I think it was vending and the fire was going around and
00:37:47 and at that stage I think you'd already said you already thought you wanted to leave the flat and go down I wasn't I was feeling something is wrong but we we
00:38:03 was feeling something is wrong but we we couldn't see the fire because the fire is not on our side we couldn't see I was going outdoor to see what happened at
00:38:14 going outdoor to see what happened at that time when I checked the ventilation is still making noise and I just thought one of the lifts wasn't working out of
00:38:28 one of the lifts wasn't working out of order and I came back I told my husband one of the lifts not working and I smell something like wire electric like the
00:38:43 something like wire electric like the the wire is getting hot or burning I was feeling something like that and I came back to my bedroom I told him it is
00:38:58 back to my bedroom I told him it is something wrong I could feel something his mail and he said I said it is not income go to sleep when I turned next to their window to go
00:39:14 when I turned next to their window to go to my bed i watch from the window and I saw the reflection of the fire but I haven't seen the fire
00:39:26 haven't seen the fire exactly I told my husband there is a fire and also I could hear the people of
00:39:37 fire and also I could hear the people of the tower
00:39:38 the tower maybe the ground floor was chatting with each other and making noise but I couldn't hate what they are saying I said there is a noise from the people
00:39:50 said there is a noise from the people and I could see the reflection of the fire let's go and see what happened and when Farhad came to my bedroom but what are you
00:40:03 came to my bedroom but what are you saying ISIF I heard there is something not okay let's go downstairs we we have to see what happened and still my
00:40:16 to see what happened and still my husband said there is nothing then they said they are coming let's go to sleep I'm going early morning at work and I
00:40:27 I'm going early morning at work and I was worried I couldn't go to sleep first from the noise and second and the fire was happen I wanted to see what happened
00:40:39 was happen I wanted to see what happened and when I told him there is a fire he woke up from get up from his bed and watch from the window he said yes there
00:40:54 watch from the window he said yes there is a fire we went to see what happened that again I opened the door out door to see if someone is there coming to ask
00:41:07 see if someone is there coming to ask what happened I saw my next door the young girl she was crying and running from his flat 2:06 and she said oh my
00:41:21 from his flat 2:06 and she said oh my god and her mom was behind her she was slowly slowly walking I just saw her she went to a staircase I stay came back I
00:41:35 went to a staircase I stay came back I told my husband see I told you something happened our neighborhood everybody is and going downstairs let's go to see
00:41:47 and going downstairs let's go to see what happened when he saw that fire was a piece of fire was coming from the Train
00:42:01 academy was he said yes get ready to go and we got ready when we went out of the
00:42:16 and we got ready when we went out of the outdoor we locked our door we wanted to go to the staircase because both this left how to order at that time we said
00:42:32 left how to order at that time we said when we wanted to go to the circus at that time my son too many people came from the circus and they opened the
00:42:46 from the circus and they opened the staircase door and they were crying
00:42:56 this is Eric again it's been a long answer and you've given us a lot of information we take a break now all
00:43:13 information we take a break now all right we'll come back a quarter past three take your time
00:43:45 right the 3:15 please
00:54:47 [Music]
00:55:10 yeah rigsy to them yes this is another thank you for coming back to us and we're gonna carry on
00:55:21 back to us and we're gonna carry on can I ask you please to go to paragraph 34 of your statement on page 7 the first statement
00:55:35 would you say the beginning we got ready to leave and in the second line you say Farhad said don't use the lift as I left the flat again and went on to the
00:55:47 the flat again and went on to the landing the severe and fat I saw approximately 30 to 40 people coming onto our landing from up the stairs I asked them what was going on now first of all can I just take you
00:56:00 now first of all can I just take you back to the moment when you left your flat in with severe and with I had intending to go down do you remember what the conditions the air conditions were like in the lobby at that time it
00:56:11 were like in the lobby at that time it was clear was clear did you notice any smoke at all not really did you notice
00:56:22 smoke at all not really did you notice the noise of the smoke vents at all at that time it's thundering was nice you're still noise it was it the same noise as before all yeah it was and I
00:56:37 noise as before all yeah it was and I think we heard from Farhad this morning that you made it across the lobby and got into the stairwell when you saw all the people coming up that's how he I think remembers it is that how you remember it
00:56:49 remembers it is that how you remember it or do you remember seeing the people before that know that once you remember the same time then they wanted to go to history but we saw the people not before
00:57:01 history but we saw the people not before that right okay now you say in your statement you saw I saw approximately 30 to 40 people coming onto it to our landing from up the stairs thinking
00:57:12 landing from up the stairs thinking about it again looking back do you think it was 30 to 40 it was too many as I couldn't count it but the the lobby was
00:57:24 couldn't count it but the the lobby was full of the people yeah did you did you know any of the people who came up yes sorry did you know them did you know any
00:57:35 sorry did you know them did you know any of them yeah of course I know them because a long time they were we were together
00:57:44 together see each other on the left and say hello to them they were our neighbor I know them do you remember who you spoke to when you when you met them there yeah
00:58:00 there you don't mean ladies mrs. ROC AVI yeah because I know then she was
00:58:12 yeah because I know then she was recently coming on the flat and the tower she got the flat but we were speaking the same language
00:58:23 speaking the same language we know each other and also Miriam and her mom since I been on the tower I know
00:58:34 her mom since I been on the tower I know them very well and the rest of them I know em and say hello to them yeah do you remember what they were
00:58:47 yeah do you remember what they were wearing and not each of them but in general were they wearing night clothes or did they look ready to leave the tower some of them with night clothes some of them but jeans yeah it it was
00:59:05 some of them but jeans yeah it it was different the clothes
00:59:12 you say still in paragraph 34 six lines down they told us they had been told to
00:59:24 down they told us they had been told to come upstairs you see where you say that they told us that they've been told to come upstairs as a rescue helicopter was coming for us do you remember who said that to you
00:59:36 do you remember who said that to you missus of Rho C of E this is obviously a being yet and did she tell you who had told her that a helicopter was coming
00:59:47 told her that a helicopter was coming yes
00:59:48 yes when they came up I saw her she came up with her sister and she was using her Walker as well and when I saw her she
01:00:02 Walker as well and when I saw her she straight came to us and I I told what happened she said there is a fire because we couldn't see the fire just
01:00:13 because we couldn't see the fire just only depth reflection of the fire I asked her what happened she said there is a fire and coming to a Howard floods and we wanted to go down someone said I
01:00:26 and we wanted to go down someone said I don't know the firefighter was there or someone she told me the firefighter told us you go up the lake of the risk you come and rescue and I told there isn't
01:00:40 come and rescue and I told there isn't there is no way out to go to the roof how they told you they said no I don't know they said go down the stairs
01:00:51 know they said go down the stairs delicate are coming and rescue and she was keep saying always asking what helicopter is not coming they told us
01:01:04 helicopter is not coming they told us [Music]
01:01:09 did doing the best you can with that conversation at that time how sure are you that she said to you that she'd been
01:01:20 you that she said to you that she'd been told by a firefighter that a helicopter was coming to rescue you I'm not too sure but she said she said to me but I'm
01:01:33 sure but she said she said to me but I'm not sure who was
01:01:40 can I ask you to look at paragraph 41 of your statement and this is just looking
01:01:51 your statement and this is just looking forward a little bit in time this is Neda when you are in your living room and you're having a conversation with Miriam McGuire who's in your living room
01:02:02 Miriam McGuire who's in your living room with you at that time and you say
01:02:08 halfway down that paragraph when I had asked Miriam why she and her mother had come up the stairs she had told me that there had been no way out on the staircase because it was blocked with
01:02:19 staircase because it was blocked with people running from the fire and they had been told to go up and again I know it's difficult to remember exactly but doing the doing the best you can can you
01:02:30 doing the doing the best you can can you remember you know who Miriam was referring to when she said that they had
01:02:42 referring to when she said that they had been told to go up it was the day Miriam Miriam didn't tell me to someone told her to go up but she thought there is no
01:02:56 her to go up but she thought there is no way to go down because all of the people the people was rushing to go downstairs there is no way I asked Miriam wire up
01:03:08 there is no way I asked Miriam wire up you're coming up the stairs well you're not going down she said there is no way where I have to go and the fire is
01:03:19 where I have to go and the fire is spreading very fast it has reached my flat and she was crying and she says but we can do I said I I told her Miriam you
01:03:36 we can do I said I I told her Miriam you have to be calm and pray it should be fine she said no no this is not fine the fire is not and the fire is
01:03:51 not fine the fire is not and the fire is really bad like I can't wait where we have to go she was keep telling like that and crying and she was always on the phone yes
01:04:04 yes do you remember whether Miriam told you that she had been told to go up she herself no she came by herself can I
01:04:21 she herself no she came by herself can I ask you to get back in your statement to paragraph 35 which is on on page 8 of your of your statement this is because
01:04:36 your of your statement this is because I'm going back in time and if your time in your statement and in time this is when you read you meet the people on the stairs or in the lobby coming up that
01:04:47 stairs or in the lobby coming up that you say a paragraph 35 at this time I saw my neighbor from flat 203 is that
01:04:58 saw my neighbor from flat 203 is that Rania Ibrahim yeah it is did you say anything to Rania no did she say anything to you no she just opened the door to see what
01:05:10 no she just opened the door to see what what what is going on and when she opened the door most of those people who came up the stairs gone to her flat and
01:05:23 came up the stairs gone to her flat and she closed the door leave we came with Miriam and her mom and afro Co D and
01:05:34 Miriam and her mom and afro Co D and Howard fellows and be closed at all but we didn't see how many of those people gone
01:05:46 gone and always staying and on her flat we didn't see afterwards now you go back
01:06:00 didn't see afterwards now you go back into your flat yeah and you explained how that is with Miriam and her mum and the addressee arby's and then you set
01:06:13 the addressee arby's and then you set paragraph 43 of your statement in paragraph 9 there was more and more smoke coming inside the flat and we turned on torches on our phones and
01:06:24 turned on torches on our phones and started waving them out of the window and how soon after coming back into your flat with the four ladies did you notice
01:06:38 flat with the four ladies did you notice smoke starting to come into your flat
01:06:45 when these when we saw the people was coming they straight go to when they told there is no way out my husband told
01:06:56 told there is no way out my husband told me I told you there is no way to go downstairs we went inside the flat but there is there wasn't a smoke and at
01:07:09 there is there wasn't a smoke and at that time it was clear but afterwards slowly slowly the smoke coming to the lobby and underneath the front door was
01:07:27 lobby and underneath the front door was coming to the corridor because fire hot alternatively going out and twist what opened the door and closing back there
01:07:39 opened the door and closing back there smoke coming in our flat right was the smoke coming from anywhere else apart from under the door under your front
01:07:51 from under the door under your front door do you remember how quickly the smoke was filling the flat I I can't
01:08:02 smoke was filling the flat I I can't remember but I feel they smoke because I couldn't breathe proper and I opened the
01:08:13 couldn't breathe proper and I opened the kitchen window to take out the smoke
01:08:20 that much was this one so you tried to ventilate the flashlight opening up the kitchen but did it work did it help no it's getting worse because the the
01:08:33 no it's getting worse because the the hair was circulation was very easy to the smoke coming in however flat and it is more smoke my husband told don't open
01:08:46 is more smoke my husband told don't open the windows because the smoke is coming more did did you notice what what color the smoke was
01:08:56 when we left when we wanted to live with Farhad when they opened a door I thought there was very dark come to that greasy
01:09:11 there was very dark come to that greasy like shiny and I could see and the light of our corridor was still on when we
01:09:26 of our corridor was still on when we opened the door the smoke was running slowly slowly like this and came inside our flat I saw the color of the smoke was very dark green like black even
01:09:41 was very dark green like black even black and we even couldn't see what is inside the corridor yes and you you say
01:09:52 inside the corridor yes and you you say a paragraph and this is when you open the door to go out yeah I just want to follow that sound what in your statement a paragraph 51 page 11 you described the
01:10:03 a paragraph 51 page 11 you described the smoke as dark grey shiny and thick yeah it's difficult to explain you say but it looked like glitter when we opened our
01:10:14 looked like glitter when we opened our front door
01:10:20 you done you just described that so you had the light behind you is this right from your your flat European Hall could you see what do you say you could see it
01:10:31 you see what do you say you could see it look like glitter what is that it it's not exactly glitter but it was very shiny like the glitter was when you put on the under the light
01:10:46 was when you put on the under the light it was reflecting the shine like that you can see yeah it was seen it seemed like that but it's not exactly glitter
01:10:59 like that but it's not exactly glitter murdered
01:11:00 murdered it is like example I did right and you say it looked very greasy and had a
01:11:11 say it looked very greasy and had a really bad taste which was a mixture of hot and sour the smoke started burning my throat immediately which caused me to vomit and choke this is at the time when you're going into the lobby with farhat
01:11:23 you're going into the lobby with farhat yeah when we left never left yeah it before that when when you're still in your flat was the smoke as
01:11:35 still in your flat was the smoke as thick as that in the corridor not was
01:11:44 smoking right but not that much was in the corridor in the lobby but they still was it was reached up to fire halls
01:11:56 was it was reached up to fire halls bedroom and there is sitting room and the kitchen still was a smoky but was more clear did you notice the glittery
01:12:09 more clear did you notice the glittery and part of the smoke when it was in the hall and inside off now you didn't know can I just show you paragraph 44 of your
01:12:20 can I just show you paragraph 44 of your statement this is never and this is still when you're in the flat before you leave halfway through that paragraph you say he said that's I thinks a bear said that he had
01:12:32 that's I thinks a bear said that he had been told that this would help to reduce the fire when we opened the taps there was no water Sava told us that there was no water and we only had one bucket of water
01:12:41 water I remember seeing his face at this point and he had a look of what I would describe as hopelessness and did you yourself open the taps did you you try
01:12:52 yourself open the taps did you you try them yeah Wendy wanted to open the top subber was in the kitchen next to the
01:13:03 subber was in the kitchen next to the sink
01:13:06 sink he opened the kitchen table I wanted to go to the bathrooms there is no there was no water I came back I told there is
01:13:17 was no water I came back I told there is no water and sovereign when we saw their water pressure was very low and nearly to stop running the water and we had
01:13:31 to stop running the water and we had just half of the bucket water and so we told the water there is no water we just
01:13:43 told the water there is no water we just only have that much so you went into the bathroom and tried the terms yourself yeah and there was no water in the tax yeah
01:13:59 and how and this is difficult I know but how long before you left the flat did you realize that there was no rooms are coming out of the tax I'm not sure about
01:14:12 coming out of the tax I'm not sure about the time because every time everybody call us and tell everything but I think
01:14:25 call us and tell everything but I think I'm not sure who told Farhad all sober I'm not sure they told they tell us to
01:14:36 I'm not sure they told they tell us to open your top water and leave everything if you have you can make wet your carpet everything after that we start to open
01:14:48 everything after that we start to open the top that maybe 20 minutes after we get back to the flood maybe
01:15:02 and you describe it in your statement to paragraph 49 which is on page 10 that you made the decision to leave the flat
01:15:15 you made the decision to leave the flat you say if I had took my hand and I called to Sabet and said we are all leaving as we left the flat the smoke alarms started going off do you remember
01:15:27 alarms started going off do you remember who who made the decision that you should all leave the flat
01:15:42 and when you left the flat you remember who opened the front door and and then
01:15:54 who opened the front door and and then you go into the smoke and you describe the smoke normal for us before you left the flat if I had do you remember
01:16:07 the flat if I had do you remember whether any firefighter had come up to your floor at all we haven't seen none often no but I am sure none of them came up to 23rd floor yes but we have been
01:16:22 up to 23rd floor yes but we have been seen now going back to paragraph 51 of your statement which we looked at a moment ago on page 11 you've described this smoke with this glitter and and
01:16:35 this smoke with this glitter and and it's taste and smell
01:16:41 did you were you able to breathe it at all no it was very difficult when we
01:16:52 all no it was very difficult when we first get inside the smoke I was pushed myself back I told Farhad I am NOT going
01:17:03 myself back I told Farhad I am NOT going it is very difficult how we can go inside this he encouraging me to come we
01:17:14 inside this he encouraging me to come we have to leave there but when we went inside straight away we wanted to block our breathing we start coughing and our
01:17:29 our breathing we start coughing and our eyes was it was really difficult to open our eyes sourcing like burning and our
01:17:42 our eyes sourcing like burning and our voice was cut off we couldn't speak also we refill I feel
01:17:55 we couldn't speak also we refill I feel sick
01:17:55 sick and I wanted to vomiting like that but it was difficult to believe and he put
01:18:07 it was difficult to believe and he put the cloth wet cloth on our nose and mouth do not yes so what were you wearing a towel over your head or just in front of your nose no just I'd taken
01:18:19 in front of your nose no just I'd taken my mouth and my nose right and was the towel wet wait yes wait when you cross the lobby with with Farhad you got to
01:18:32 the lobby with with Farhad you got to the stairwell door do you remember whether it was closed or whether it was open I I don't know because Farhad leading me mom I know although I I can't
01:18:47 leading me mom I know although I I can't see everywhere was dark and full of smoke he was touching the world there is a wall
01:18:56 a wall and now you can turn left and this is a stairwell
01:19:00 stairwell like I don't remember when fire hot opened the door the staircase though it was open or closed I couldn't see there was and when
01:19:12 closed I couldn't see there was and when you got into the stairwell do you remember whether the smoke was the same as in the lobby or more or less
01:19:20 it was dark too dark I couldn't see anywhere what I think it was the same but maybe much better not not sure were
01:19:34 but maybe much better not not sure were you able to open your eyes and look around yeah do you have to keep them no he just close an open because we couldn't see even when we wanted to open
01:19:45 couldn't see even when we wanted to open our eyes animal we we anyway we can't see and we're so it is better to keep
01:19:56 see and we're so it is better to keep close our eyes at least not getting blind or something and when we wanted to
01:20:09 blind or something and when we wanted to open it is very runny and gay to it and when we wanted to dry our eyes the smoke
01:20:23 when we wanted to dry our eyes the smoke was get inside our eyes we prefer to better to keep close our lungs when you got into the stairs did you
01:20:35 when you got into the stairs did you notice a change in in the temperature around you to be honest I I never think and feel about the temperature I am not
01:20:48 and feel about the temperature I am not sure about the temperature was what was the temperature because we were thinking about how to get out
01:21:00 about how to get out you couldn't feel anything sure and you kept you came down the stairs and I think you you stumbled and around about
01:21:13 think you you stumbled and around about the 18th floor you say in your state yeah and it's paragraph 54 on the same page just a little bit lower down you say I remember that around the 18th floor I remembered that around the 18th
01:21:26 floor I remembered that around the 18th floor I stumbled and I thought and he thought I had fallen but I had turned on the light on his mobile telephone and my question is how did you know that it was
01:21:37 question is how did you know that it was around the 18th floor
01:21:41 because when the Walker and the post a staircase it is not exactly but at that
01:21:55 staircase it is not exactly but at that time we walk too many stairs right so you try anything counting the floods yes we we couldn't count but we feel we were
01:22:09 we we couldn't count but we feel we were around that because we feel that time is it was you couldn't see that time but
01:22:20 the time we are walking to go down the stairs
01:22:25 stairs it looks like how many floors we got gone down and on your journey down the stairs
01:22:35 stairs mrs. nether did you notice any doors to any other lobbies open I didn't see anyone but
01:22:49 I think it took too long to get downstairs but I feel when we did half of the tower it was maybe around half of
01:23:05 of the tower it was maybe around half of the tower one of the staircase was open and he said at least we have to go there
01:23:19 and he said at least we have to go there there is not smoked that much and wasn't a scary staircase we went there to rest and take a fresh
01:23:34 we went there to rest and take a fresh although there was smoke but to me there was looked like clear the lobby
01:23:45 we just used that floor for a while not for a few minutes not too long at least
01:23:57 for a few minutes not too long at least we have to have fresh air on earth yeah that was open the rest of the Moyes didn't see okay do you remember whether
01:24:11 didn't see okay do you remember whether on that floor you saw the air vents when you went in
01:24:21 yeah we just said next to that do you remember whether they were working you don't remember whether the
01:24:32 working you don't remember whether the the little doors to the air vent system on that floor no I said that time here we were very struggling to breathing and
01:24:45 we were very struggling to breathing and coughing your look after ourself yes yes sure um you then described in your statement to paragraph 62 on page
01:24:58 your statement to paragraph 62 on page 13 just jumping ahead you say I do not know which floor we'd reached but we
01:25:09 know which floor we'd reached but we were nearly down maybe it was the sixth fifth or fourth floor and I felt someone grabbed me I asked Farhad if it was him and he said no he told me that it was the fire brigade and they had a hold of him as well can I just ask you how you you
01:25:25 well can I just ask you how you you think it was the sixth fifth or fourth floor could you see the numbers you know the wall by that's no but we feel because after we find out the fire
01:25:39 because after we find out the fire brigade they grabbed us we didn't go down that much longer we soon reached to
01:25:50 down that much longer we soon reached to the
01:25:54 it was thoughtful of walk me and that's why I feel it was maybe six our faithful Oh or maybe less than that because when
01:26:09 Oh or maybe less than that because when she grabbed me we just maybe to flow down gone down and after that there is no fire and no smoke and do you say in
01:26:26 no fire and no smoke and do you say in the next paragraph 63 in the last sentence she that's the female firefighter asked me where I'd come from
01:26:38 firefighter asked me where I'd come from and I told her that we had come from the top floor did you did you tell her that
01:26:49 top floor did you did you tell her that there was still people up on the top floor
01:26:52 floor I didn't tell but Farhad told him right in do you remember seeing a firefighter writing down the flat number of floor
01:27:03 writing down the flat number of floor number yeah okay now paragraph 66 and this is now outside the tower you say at
01:27:15 this is now outside the tower you say at the bottom of page 13 when we got outside of the tower I had recovered some consciousness and Farhad and I were both crying Farhad told them that his father was stuck on the 23rd floor
01:27:28 father was stuck on the 23rd floor do you remember who Farhad spoke to at that time
01:27:43 the firefighter firefighter do you remember whether that firefighter took a note no deal walking around just asking and when fire ho told this is we will do
01:28:01 and when fire ho told this is we will do the people are gone for rescue you have to be relaxed that's it hmm they didn't write down do you know what that
01:28:14 write down do you know what that firefighter did in response to the information that fire had was giving him no joy at 67 you say I spoke to a
01:28:27 no joy at 67 you say I spoke to a firefighter this is on page 14 67 say I spoke to the firefighter and he asked me
01:28:38 spoke to the firefighter and he asked me what floor I had come down from and if there was anyone else up there
01:28:45 farhad and I were crying and we told the firefighter that said there was stuck in our flat and we asked him if he if they could go up he told us not to worry and that they would go and rescue him and
01:28:57 that they would go and rescue him and how long had you been outside the tower do you think before you spoke to the firefighter and told him that when we got out we they sat me down next to
01:29:12 got out we they sat me down next to ground floor opposite ground playground and they are
01:29:26 yeah
01:29:29 I told they were coming to give me the oxygen I I was crying and they told me [Music]
01:29:37 [Music] are you okay I said no I'm not okay my husband is stuck on the top floor with other people they said don't worry there
01:29:48 other people they said don't worry there is the risk you the people will rescue them don't worry what do you remember whether that firefighter took a note of
01:29:59 whether that firefighter took a note of what you said to confirm the floor advancing they haven't got any pen and paper with them just they were walking around and asked I think they might pass
01:30:12 around and asked I think they might pass through each other that's it did you see the firefighter pass that information to anybody else when you came outside I think you were treated by
01:30:23 came outside I think you were treated by paramedics yeah and do you remember how long it took for them to come to you to treat you after you left the tower I'm
01:30:34 treat you after you left the tower I'm not sure what time we got out because the time is not fixed to me but now I understand it was maybe 2:30 around 2:30
01:30:46 understand it was maybe 2:30 around 2:30 yes but we sat down until 5 o'clock maybe 5 or 5:30 in the morning because I
01:31:00 maybe 5 or 5:30 in the morning because I saw the day is getting brighter brighter that morning I was there until that time
01:31:11 that morning I was there until that time did anybody suggest taking you to hospital before that before that time no after 5 o'clock my breathing was getting
01:31:25 after 5 o'clock my breathing was getting worse and worse I couldn't ever wasn't able to speak and even I I was breathing my shoulder was moving
01:31:38 my shoulder was moving and one ladies saw me they said this this lady is not looking well yesterday she called ambulance and they came they
01:31:51 she called ambulance and they came they took me to the ambulance and I was getting inside ambulance by myself until we reached to the hospital and after
01:32:03 we reached to the hospital and after that I didn't know what happened where were you when you were collected to be taken to hospital we sat nearest
01:32:15 to be taken to hospital we sat nearest to the Latimer rota station but when the in the morning the weather was quite cold there everybody was shaking well
01:32:28 cold there everybody was shaking well there was across the road there was a pup they opened the door pups and send us to there at least we get warm and the
01:32:43 us to there at least we get warm and the ambulance took me from there afterwards
01:32:51 mrs. Mehta I've come to the end of my questions for you they'll be glad to hear I get it ask the Chairman to rise for a few minutes just so that I can check my notes to make sure that nobody else has got me any
01:33:02 sure that nobody else has got me any questions for you so I'm going to ask him to break for a few minutes is that is that all right with you okay mr. chairman yes of course we'll break until four o'clock that's so if you'd like to
01:33:39 right for a doctor music
01:41:21 jump away
01:42:00 alright you happy to answer a few more questions thank you very much yes mr. Miller and mrs. Nitta thank you for coming back I only have one question it's a final question for you and it's
01:42:12 it's a final question for you and it's this is there anything in addition to your two witness statements and in addition to what you've told us today about what you saw on the night heard or
01:42:24 about what you saw on the night heard or smelt or felt on the night itself that you think it's important for the Chairman to know
01:42:38 I just want to say a stay put means I will we will do something for you or we
01:42:53 will we will do something for you or we we are here to help you those people who died in the night of the fire the only
01:43:07 died in the night of the fire the only cause of the of the death it is the staple policy if they didn't believe the
01:43:19 staple policy if they didn't believe the fire brigade and the staple policy they are not trust and trusting them and not listening to them I'm sure they will be
01:43:31 listening to them I'm sure they will be alive including my husband and the fire brigade has to take the responsibilities
01:43:45 brigade has to take the responsibilities for their mistakes
01:43:51 which is this mistake destroyed my life my son's life and also the old people
01:44:03 my son's life and also the old people and the green first hour whether they died or survived all of them now destroyed their life
01:44:14 destroyed their life I am always I'm not saying just for my husband I am NOT standing just for my husband as I remember those children who
01:44:30 husband as I remember those children who died from the tower deafening the mothers the father's brothers and sisters all of them when I remember them
01:44:43 sisters all of them when I remember them I am not only standing for my husband I'm standing behind the moszer because they are not alive to give their voice
01:45:00 they are not alive to give their voice they said my voice should be from them as well and I I want from you justice and I am sure I couldn't get even the
01:45:17 and I am sure I couldn't get even the justice has been done I'm sure I didn't get my husband back or the family who lost their family as well
01:45:30 the family who lost their family as well they didn't give them back but at least they should change the policy to not
01:45:41 they should change the policy to not happen for future and if they stay with this policy I am sure nobody trusts them anymore
01:45:55 sure nobody trusts them anymore and it caused more mistakes and caused more the people doing I want justice mr.
01:46:12 more the people doing I want justice mr. data thank you very much and thank you very much to you for coming here today and giving us your evidence for nerd times it's not not been easy but we're
01:46:23 times it's not not been easy but we're very grateful to you for coming and assisting us with our investigations so thank you very very much to you and to your son Farhad you've obviously had a
01:46:34 your son Farhad you've obviously had a really horrible experience and the loss of your husband is something which I think none of us can really understand but we are very grateful to you for coming to tell us about what happened
01:46:46 coming to tell us about what happened because it's important that we know these things and I'm sorry if it's been a disagreeable experience for us I think it probably has but we are very grateful to you thank you very much indeed thank
01:46:58 to you thank you very much indeed thank you so much if you'd like to give her the extra she'll look after
01:47:32 none missed a minute its chairman it's been a long day and I fear I must tell you that we will not get it to the end of our proposed reading list of witness
01:47:46 of our proposed reading list of witness statements to be to be read in so I'm afraid that's disappointing but we felt that it was important so that both witnesses today should be given as much time as possible to give us their
01:47:57 time as possible to give us their evidence and I don't regret that however there is one statement that is so closely linked to the events on that floor on that night that I'm going to
01:48:11 floor on that night that I'm going to read it in yes thank you to the record and I don't know how long this will take because there's a there's quite a bit of it I do want to read in justice
01:48:26 it I do want to read in justice obviously I need to do I will certainly do it justice to the extent that I can do it justice mr. chairman but it may take 20 to 30 minutes or so so so bear with me but if we sit a little bit beyond half horse for hell don't worry
01:48:37 beyond half horse for hell don't worry too much of a problem it's been quite content to do that so I'm very grateful it's the statement of mr. Ahmed el quarry which is iws 9 8 8 and it runs
01:48:51 quarry which is iws 9 8 8 and it runs from page 1 to page 93 because I think I'm so sorry 19 6 because it includes a lengthy and useful exhibit it's dated
01:49:02 lengthy and useful exhibit it's dated the 25th of July 2018 and mr. agua Ruiz statement carries a statement of truth at page 24 over that date mr. lorry was
01:49:15 at page 24 over that date mr. lorry was the brother of Miriam of worry about whom you've heard quite a bit today mr. chairman and she lived at flat 196 on the 22nd floor yes
01:49:28 the 22nd floor yes and I should say first of all that this statement and it's exhibit will stand in its entirety as evidence to the inquiry and will be taken into account in its entirety I'm going to start if I can a
01:49:42 entirety I'm going to start if I can a page 58 a paragraph 58 which is on page 17 under the heading refurbishment windows and he says this during the
01:49:56 windows and he says this during the refurbishment the windows were replaced well I lived in the tower the windows were single glazed and you could slide them open they had a metal frame and you could slide open the window fully with
01:50:07 could slide open the window fully with the refurbishment they added double glazing which I thought was great for my mum and sister although I never thought the flat felt cold but when they put the new double glazing in they repositioned
01:50:18 new double glazing in they repositioned the windows pushing it back so you effectively had more space to lean on before you could out of the window before you could look out of the window an immediate concern with this was how
01:50:29 an immediate concern with this was how difficult it was to close and open those windows the windows were not simple to use
01:50:34 use they were quite stubborn and did not work properly some of the windows in the living room would never fully lock so it would close but the handle would never fully lock in and never fully click with
01:50:46 fully lock in and never fully click with the new windows you could feel a breeze coming in it was like a flow of air coming especially in the living room we found the flat cold are not warmer after the refurbishment the TMO told us the
01:50:59 the refurbishment the TMO told us the purpose of installing the new windows was to provide better insulation but that was not achieved on the weekend I visited my mother and the window was partially hanging off the hinges and my
01:51:10 partially hanging off the hinges and my mum had to get a blanket or towel to cover it this was a brand new window which had quotes come off the hinges quite some quotes as stated by Maryam in an email I recall we could not close it
01:51:22 an email I recall we could not close it my mum and sister contacted the TMO and were blamed for breaking it my mother could hardly use her hands and it was impossible for her to break the window little
01:51:30 little grip the handle the window is not completely off that it was hanging off my sister wrote to the TMO and I exhibit emails about this and he gives the reference on another occasion we could
01:51:41 reference on another occasion we could not close the window properly my sister sent emails concerning the problems and contacted a resident called william thompson who lived on the lower ground floors my sister sent an email to willie to raise concerns at a meeting she was
01:51:52 to raise concerns at a meeting she was not able to attend that day she explained in the email that you could hear a whistling noise from the breeze coming through the window Ryden was the contractor and someone came up and accused my sister of not
01:52:03 came up and accused my sister of not raising the flap at the top this was a false accusation and again she felt fobbed off can i pick up events of the
01:52:14 fobbed off can i pick up events of the night in mr. almarri statement at page 2 on paragraph 5 and there's quite a lot of this but i'm not going to read it i'm not gonna read it all but i'll read quite a bit of it 14th of June 2017 at
01:52:28 quite a bit of it 14th of June 2017 at home the night of the fire I had met Miriam and spent the evening with her at my house with my son and Fasano we were planning to meet as a family over the weekend and we spoke to my mother via
01:52:40 weekend and we spoke to my mother via FaceTime Miriam left after 9 p.m. and drove home to the tower I went to bed several hours later my wife Farzana wake me up and told me that she had missed
01:52:51 me up and told me that she had missed calls from Miriam she told me to check my phone as I checked my phone Miriam called me the first call I answered from my sister was at 143 a.m. I had also missed I had also missed call
01:53:04 I had also missed I had also missed call from her at 133 a.m. and a whatsapp message at 1:35 a.m. which said I made Pleet answer please there's a fire in the building I have a copy of my phone
01:53:15 the building I have a copy of my phone records for the 14th of June 2017 which I exhibit at a e1 my memory of this conversation is blurred Miriam said the kitchen is on fire I froze I was in
01:53:28 kitchen is on fire I froze I was in shock I immediately questioned why there was a fire in the kitchen because my mum would always turn off the appliances in the entire flat including turning off the switches I responded to say just get
01:53:40 the switches I responded to say just get out of the building just get out she didn't disagree I asked Miriam if my mum was with her and asked if they were both okay she replied saying yes I'm with mum I can't remember whether she
01:53:52 with mum I can't remember whether she said that she was still in her flat at that point I quickly told her I'm on my way and put the phone down when I got off the phone I quickly got dressed I turned to my wife for Zhanna and just
01:54:04 turned to my wife for Zhanna and just said I feel sick I just knew something was not right the fact that the kitchen was on fire was not normal before I left the house Muhammad Rasool called me
01:54:15 the house Muhammad Rasool called me Mohammed is a good friend of mine and he lives it in flat 25 on the fifth floor of the tower he told me that he was already out of the tower with his family he told me they were taking him to Kensington Leisure Centre he didn't
01:54:27 Kensington Leisure Centre he didn't explain the severity of the fire on the phone that perhaps he might not have known at that point or didn't want to worry me I said goodbye to my wife ran down the stairs open the front door and ran to the car in the car and then at
01:54:42 ran to the car in the car and then at paragraph nine picking it up there he says Mariam called me at 1:48 a.m. but this was only a five-second call and I can't remember the conversation Mariam
01:54:53 can't remember the conversation Mariam called again at one forty nine a.m. and this was for a minute I think this is when she told this is when she told me that she had tried to go downstairs but
01:55:04 that she had tried to go downstairs but couldn't as there were others going back upstairs and were telling her to go back up I don't know how far down the stairs she went she said that the neighbor in flat 205 had let her and my mum in flat
01:55:16 flat 205 had let her and my mum in flat 205 was on the 23rd floor but on the floor above my mother it seemed odd to me because fuzz never spread in Grenville tower we had experienced fires over the years and they never spread to
01:55:28 over the years and they never spread to nearby flats and so I was thinking what the hell is going on I said to Mariam I'm on my way his mum with you she said that she was I tried to reassure Mariam by telling her that Mohammad Rasool and other residents
01:55:40 that Mohammad Rasool and other residents that I knew were out of the tower safely I also told her that the firemen were on their way
01:55:47 their way arrival at the tower having received a phone call from Mohammed and Patrick I knew that there was something seriously wrong I got into my car on took the a40 a 406 route from Hendon
01:55:59 took the a40 a 406 route from Hendon towards Greenville tower as I got closer to the tower I noticed that the traffic had started to increase significantly I got there at 2:13 a.m. I know that as I called my sister I was approaching the
01:56:11 called my sister I was approaching the area by stony road but it was gridlock from there I remember seeing ambulances fire engines police cars and normal vehicles which I presumed belonged to other relatives or friends who were rushing to get there as I was I found a space as
01:56:24 get there as I was I found a space as soon as I turned into stone Lee Road have I parked the car I called my sister and said I'm here just hold on I drove down sedan's Road which was already packed with cars and there were lots of people standing around on the pavements
01:56:36 people standing around on the pavements I turned right and parked at stainle place as it was the first parking space I could find I couldn't drive down any closer to the tower because there were so many police cars ambulances and fire engines around
01:56:47 engines around I started sprinting danced only place on two Sardar Road as I was sprinting I felt like I wasn't even moving I was freaking out Miriam called me at 2:13
01:57:00 freaking out Miriam called me at 2:13 a.m. this was a three-minute call and I think this was when I was running down the road to get to the tower I can't remember this conversation when I got to the top of Sardar Road I could see the
01:57:11 the top of Sardar Road I could see the east side of the tower I was completely shocked the fire was raging I had never seen anything like it before it looked like a movie I couldn't believe that it
01:57:23 like a movie I couldn't believe that it was real I could clearly see where the fire had started at that point the fire had spread diagonally from the side that it had started the fire was spreading so quickly it was as if the whole Tower was
01:57:35 quickly it was as if the whole Tower was covered in tissue paper because of how fast it was spreading I was horrified from the east side of the tower I could see my mum's kitchen and part of the living room was completely on fire as I
01:57:46 living room was completely on fire as I looked at the fire I made an immediate judgment call that if my family didn't try to get out then they were going to die I knew then that it was going to be a case of them dying inside their flat
01:57:58 a case of them dying inside their flat or to die trying inside the command fire command vehicle I started a run down Granville road and suddenly a police officer
01:58:09 suddenly a police officer to stop me from running any closer to the tower I was waving my phone at him shouting something along the lines of my sister is in there my sister is in there I can't remember what the police officer said but I believe he told me to go with
01:58:21 said but I believe he told me to go with him or at least directed me to where I should go
01:58:24 should go I could see firefighters with hoses spraying the water at the tower and then picking it up at 15 he says the
01:58:35 picking it up at 15 he says the policeman took me to what I could only describe as the fire command vehicle I do not know if it was the closest emergency vehicle but it was on Grenville Road and I do not know where
01:58:48 Grenville Road and I do not know where my where my sister used to park her car inside the fire vehicle I was standing in a really confined space with one other firefighter and policemen we both stood next to each other and he was the only firefighter I spoke to that night I
01:58:59 only firefighter I spoke to that night I don't know what his name was the firefighter was holding a board which had all the floor numbers and flat numbers in the tower I'm unable to confirm whether this board contained the layout of the floors and flats pre or
01:59:10 layout of the floors and flats pre or post refurbishment my initial thought was that he'd taken it from the reception in the ground floor of the tower but then I realized that a later date that they only had that board on the ground floor by the lifts before the
01:59:21 the ground floor by the lifts before the refurbishment on what was known as street level he was analyzing the board at this point I realized how unprepared the fire brigade were it was cleared the fire services couldn't keep up with how fast
01:59:32 services couldn't keep up with how fast the fire was spreading I was still on the phone to my sister and I said to her look I'm going into the fire engine just hold on and then at 18 I was inside the command vehicle with a policeman and
01:59:43 command vehicle with a policeman and firefighter the firefighter started providing advice such as to tell Miriam to lay low with her nose touching the floor and to go to the bathroom inhale the drain he asked does she have a wet
01:59:54 the drain he asked does she have a wet towel
01:59:55 towel can she block smoke coming in and so on Miriam sounded like she was cooperating because she would say hold on but I really do not know what she was doing because she never rejected the recommendations but listened and
02:00:06 recommendations but listened and acknowledged what she was being told to do I asked if there was anything else as it just did not sound enough and finally when all was said the firefighter told me to tell Miriam to call 999 I looked
02:00:19 me to tell Miriam to call 999 I looked at him in complete disbelief I think I actually laughed in shock and you have to be kidding me well I told Miriam she too reacted in complete shock with all due respect he is part of the fire brigade services that should be
02:00:31 fire brigade services that should be providing instructions and yet he was telling me to call nine nine nine the firefighter looked at me and said he didn't have anything else to say he was speechless he knew that he couldn't help my mom and sister anymore he almost turned away and
02:00:42 sister anymore he almost turned away and started ignoring me when I ask further questions this was extremely difficult to comprehend especially when I knew my sister was still on the phone and felt that when I arrived I was going to help in some way when the fact of the matter
02:00:53 in some way when the fact of the matter is I couldn't at this point I thought about running into the tower again to try and save them I then remember the policeman's look at me also aware of the way the firefighter was behaving and
02:01:04 way the firefighter was behaving and understood there was nothing else that that could be said he looked at me and escorted me out of the vehicle and we walked to Bowmore road next to the Kensington Leger Center inside the
02:01:15 Kensington Leger Center inside the cordoned off zone Bay Moore road at some point when or Beimel road the policeman started to cordon off the area IRA might I remained inside the cordoned off area the whole night I was by the emergency
02:01:27 the whole night I was by the emergency services on Bowmore road facing Kensington ledger center from where I was standing I could not see flat 205 which was where my mum and sister were flat 205 was on the north and west side
02:01:38 flat 205 was on the north and west side of the tower where I was standing I had full visibility of the east side of the tower on this side you can view the kitchen window and the living room partially for flat 196 where my family
02:01:49 partially for flat 196 where my family lived I could see the building completely filled with fire blue flames and people inside there was just the most disturbing screaming that I've ever heard in my life you could see this little water hose against this big flame
02:02:01 little water hose against this big flame and thinking what the hell's that going to do I did not seem to mean to be disrespectful to the firefighters it seemed they didn't have the resources or they had was insufficient to the task a little while later the police said we
02:02:14 little while later the police said we needed to move further back away from the tower I told them I know that you can't help me but at least you can leave me to talk to my sister whilst looking at the tower I was in my own bubble I
02:02:25 at the tower I was in my own bubble I was in a complete state of shock the police officers had accepted that I wasn't moving from this spot so they agreed and left me there I was now only with police officers in this corner da Faria I didn't want to
02:02:36 this corner da Faria I didn't want to risk walking all the way around to the north of west side of the tower where I could see flat 205 just in case any of the roads were blocked off and then he describes Merriam's or refers to
02:02:48 describes Merriam's or refers to Marian's emergency calls and we have those transcripts in the record and then picking it up at page 9 just of of paragraph 28 on the phone to Miriam in
02:03:00 paragraph 28 on the phone to Miriam in flat 205 I called Miriam at 229 a.m. for four seconds but I think he went to voicemail I called Miriam again at 2:30 a.m. but she didn't answer I now started to really panic Miriam
02:03:13 I now started to really panic Miriam called me at 2:31 a.m. and that call was for one minute we didn't even talk about the 999 calls Miriam clearly didn't want to worry me I asked her can you see fire where you are
02:03:24 asked her can you see fire where you are can you look out of the window she said no I can only see smoke at the moment I said okay how many are you are with you she said there were six or seven she obviously at that time was confident in
02:03:36 obviously at that time was confident in moving around that flat and she seemed quite calm she said we are all here I asked her if she could if she could leave she said no outside the flat it's just full of black smoke
02:03:47 just full of black smoke we have no vision and we can't see where we're going she refused to leave no matter what I said to her I couldn't take the risk of her saying I couldn't take the risk of saying to her you need to go or you're going to die and even if
02:03:59 to go or you're going to die and even if you go you might die because I had no idea what the state of the stairwell was I also kept asking her can you see the fire she said no I asked where they were and she said I'm in the kitchen now I've
02:04:10 and she said I'm in the kitchen now I've done everything that I've been told to do I've got a wet towel we've got a towel under the kitchen door it's sealed and we're just sitting I continue to try to persuade her to leave with mum but
02:04:21 to persuade her to leave with mum but she refused no matter what I told her she refused the other thing that the firefighter told me when I was in the command vehicle was to tell her to lay flat on the floor with her nose touching the floor so I told her that too
02:04:33 the floor so I told her that too I also said to her if there's any smoke I would rather you do not talk to me just save your breath cover your mouth leave the phone lines open and so let them know you're still there I wanted to
02:04:44 them know you're still there I wanted to try
02:04:44 try and can keep giving her I wanted to try and and keep and I gave her false hope I just lied to her basically and I said they're coming for you
02:04:55 they're coming for you and I said don't worry you know Mohammed's out other people are out I can see people are coming out they're coming to get you so don't worry they're all coming they're coming out I just started getting desperate without trying
02:05:06 started getting desperate without trying to scare her because I could not see or feel what she was going through her or my mum I never spoke to my mum that night because I just knew that she would be freaking out and my sister said she was freaking out I knew that I had to
02:05:18 was freaking out I knew that I had to speak to my sister because she's the only one that will remain calm with me I said to her why don't you try to get out when she said no I'm not going to I won't be able to see it's all black I'm not going out there I said why don't you
02:05:30 not going out there I said why don't you at least grab mum you know the layout of the flat we've been there long enough if you know the layout of the flat why don't you just use your hands and just get on your knees and just get out I told her them that she knew where the
02:05:42 told her them that she knew where the stairs were and she said no part of me thinks that the reason why she did not have that confidence to leave was maybe to do with the fact that she had our mum with her my mum is disabled she cannot
02:05:56 with her my mum is disabled she cannot run fast she cannot even walk fast so I think she must have had it at the back of her mind maybe if she was on her own she would have done it but there was no way she would leave mum sounds and others in
02:06:08 would leave mum sounds and others in flat 205 I could hear coughing in the background I never heard other people talking but I did hear coughing I could hear helicopters in the background when on the phone to Miriam at no point in my
02:06:19 the phone to Miriam at no point in my conversations with my sister could I ever hear a fire alarm but I heard helicopters because they were near Miriam and my mum there were moments of just silence between me and my sister because it got to a point where I had
02:06:31 because it got to a point where I had nothing else to say to her I was trying to keep my sister calm at times my sister started to freak out saying we've been waiting here 45 minutes where the hell are they I could only tell her the
02:06:43 hell are they I could only tell her the same thing which is they're coming just hold on that is all I remember I just kept on telling her I tried to stay calm and checking if mum is okay my wife and many others were trying to call me
02:06:54 and many others were trying to call me but I knew that if I disconnected the phone
02:06:57 phone to my sister that I will never be able to call her back so I just did not answer the phone the last phone call from 2:30 3:00 a.m. the last phone call
02:07:09 from 2:30 3:00 a.m. the last phone call was from 2:30 3:00 a.m. I hung up the phone at 4:20 7:00 a.m. during this phone call it was pretty quiet there were no fire alarms going off I could
02:07:21 were no fire alarms going off I could hear coughing but I didn't his screaming or shouting I'm not sure whether my sister was lying down on the floor for the whole time or not I became very concerned because her coughing was beginning to increase I was really
02:07:33 beginning to increase I was really panicking I was so desperate for her to get out of the flat and said to her can you at least try to get out she said no I can't get out the landing is filled with thick black smoke that I can't see
02:07:44 with thick black smoke that I can't see I just kept repeating just trying to get out just try to get out I told her to get on your knees with mum stay low crawl over to the stairwell and just try to get out touch the walls to guide
02:07:55 to get out touch the walls to guide yourself out you know the layout of the flats she refused and said that she wasn't confident enough to leave part of me thinks the reason why she didn't have the confidence to leave is because she
02:08:06 the confidence to leave is because she didn't want to leave our mum and at 39 sorry I should read out he was disabled who couldn't walk or run fast I could only tell her to do this but I had no
02:08:17 only tell her to do this but I had no idea how bad the smoke was in the stairwell Marion was quiet but then said oh my god
02:08:24 oh my god and freaked out she never said if she saw fire I did not know whether she could see the fire at the windows or smoke coming in through the kitchen door I do not know I was starting to think
02:08:35 I do not know I was starting to think that the smoke was coming in that way or through the sliding wooden doors which separate the kitchen from the living room I know that the kitchen was the last area to be affected because I could tell from seeing where the fire was
02:08:46 tell from seeing where the fire was affecting my flat I knew if she is OK in the kitchen that must mean that the fire is wrapping around the tower and the last area to be covered in the fire is that site which means that the bedrooms in the flat are all getting set on fire
02:08:57 in the flat are all getting set on fire I asked her if anyone was with her in the kitchen she said yes I do not know if there were still six or seven people but that was the number she gave me but that brief panic happened so quickly she
02:09:09 that brief panic happened so quickly she started coughing I could hear more people coughing I said don't talk Mariam just stay with me and she didn't say anything she just started coughing and coughing for less than a minute it was so quick and she
02:09:21 than a minute it was so quick and she started mumbling and I started panicking I said Miriam are you still there she started just humming like deep humming because she could no longer speak and I said can you at least bang on the floor make a noise and I could hear someone
02:09:33 make a noise and I could hear someone just banging I do not know if it was her but it must have been her because every time I asked her to do it she did it then the mumbling humming stopped and she stopped responding that happened
02:09:45 she stopped responding that happened very quickly I assumed that if she was not responding on mum was gone as well but then I heard my mum for the first time I heard her voice I do not know how long afterwards 2030 seconds afterwards
02:09:56 long afterwards 2030 seconds afterwards she just said in Arabic I can't breathe I can't breathe she sounded so desperate I didn't hear her again she was gone I think it was around 3:10 to 3:15 when
02:10:09 I think it was around 3:10 to 3:15 when I lost them it was clear to me that it was the smoke that they died from as Miriam was telling me that she could not see fire only smoke I think I was on the
02:10:20 see fire only smoke I think I was on the phone to Miriam for about 40 to 45 minutes before she passed away fire breaking in around five to ten minutes later I could hear crackling noises I
02:10:31 later I could hear crackling noises I could hear the glass windows break I could hear the fire entering the flat from the window I will never forget how violent and aggressive it sounded I could hear it penetrating through the
02:10:43 could hear it penetrating through the flat and heard bubbling noises I could hit pots and pans falling and smashing everywhere I could hear things moving around quite violently and after that it was just burning but I did not hear
02:10:55 was just burning but I did not hear thankfully as anyone still alive in the flat when the fire into the kitchen I know that whoever was in the kitchen died well before the fire entered that kitchen I kept shouting down the phone
02:11:06 kitchen I kept shouting down the phone Miriam Miriam I knew that she was gone but I thought she might hear me I was in a complete state of shock they kept shouting and repeating they're coming
02:11:17 shouting and repeating they're coming they're coming there's cry my eyes out it was so distressing and I completely broke down I stayed on the phone until 427 just listening to the flat being burnt I stayed on the phone
02:11:30 flat being burnt I stayed on the phone in hope that maybe a firefighter would have made it to the top of the tower to rescue them but I didn't hear anything like that by that point I had heard enough after I hung up the phone I
02:11:41 enough after I hung up the phone I didn't call her again I really I couldn't really comprehend what had happened
02:11:52 mr. chairman there is much else in that statement which is important for us to us to take into account that I might read it to you I think at that moment I
02:12:03 read it to you I think at that moment I should just leave it as it is so so mr. chairman that brings us to the end of today's evidence before we mister
02:12:16 today's evidence before we mister allegory here where's Austin yes he is and I'd like to thank him very much for producing such a careful and detailed statement and to say how sorry we are
02:12:28 statement and to say how sorry we are not only for his loss but it was the way he had to listen to the last moments his mother and sister it's very good of him to have made the statement of this kind
02:12:40 to have made the statement of this kind thank you very much yes mr. chairman that as I say brings to a close today's evidence and we will resume with our
02:12:52 evidence and we will resume with our witnesses on Monday week taking a short break next week yes well thank you very much that as mr. millet said we and
02:13:03 much that as mr. millet said we and there will be no hearings next week we should resume on Monday the 29th of October at 10 o'clock and at that time we shall hear more evidence and those
02:13:15 we shall hear more evidence and those who were inside the tire
02:13:23 thank you very much