Hamid Wahby, resident of flat 136 on the 16th floor, gives evidence about fire safety in Grenfell Tower and his experience escaping during the fire, including details about fire alarms, the stay put policy, and his escape route.
00:14:08 good morning everyone welcome to the resumed hearings we're going to carry on today hearing from those who were present in the tire at the time of the fire
00:14:19 the time of the fire yes mr. Warren good morning mr. chairman may I call Hamid Wahby please
00:14:49 I swear by Allah that the evidence I shall give shall be the truth the whole truth thank you very
00:15:08 the truth the whole truth thank you very much mr. Olli you sit down and make yourself comfortable yes you can push that way yes well good morning to
00:15:24 that way yes well good morning to you can you give the inquiry your full name please my name is Hamid and your surname my name is Hamid Wahby Thank You mr. Wahby
00:15:34 mr. Wahby thank you first of all for coming to give evidence today it is very much appreciated as you will know the majority of my questions today will be
00:15:45 majority of my questions today will be about the night of the fire if you need a break at any time please let me know and we will stop I will try and keep my questions to you short and
00:15:56 questions to you short and straightforward but if I do ask you a question that you don't understand please let me know and I'll ask it in a different way first thing that we need to do is just to put your statement
00:16:08 to do is just to put your statement formally into the record so could I have please on the screen iwf 4 zeros 1 1 5 7 page 1 please if I explains the lobby
00:16:20 page 1 please if I explains the lobby this is the first page of the statement that you've made specifically for the inquiry you can see the page it's on the monitor in front of you if you prefer paper there is a bundle just on the desk
00:16:33 paper there is a bundle just on the desk in front of you and you can use that it's a it'll be at the first tab if you need it we can see at the bottom that the first page and indeed every page of
00:16:44 the first page and indeed every page of the statement has been signed by you and dated the 10th of May 2018 can we go please to page 15 in this statement and paragraph 90 which is at the bottom
00:17:03 if you look at the bottom of the statement there's a paragraph 90 reads I confirmed that the contents of this witness statement are true and if we go over leaf to the next page you've signed
00:17:18 over leaf to the next page you've signed it there oh it's it's been signed can you confirm that and there's a date of the 23rd of October 2018 can you confirm that that is your signature Burton my
00:17:29 that that is your signature Burton my signature yes thank you have you had a chance to go through your statement recently yes are the contents of the statement true yes true mr. chairman
00:17:41 statement true yes true mr. chairman there are no exhibits to put into the record room thank you could we begin please mr. wall a little bit of background it's right isn't it that in June 2017 you lived in flat 136 on the
00:17:57 June 2017 you lived in flat 136 on the 16th floor of Grenville Tower correct and that was a two bedroom flat wasn't it yes it was two versions lots and you lived there with your mother and your
00:18:08 lived there with your mother and your son correct did you have a tenancy yes I do and who was that tenancy with me and my mom but which organization did you hold the tenancy with I bkc
00:18:23 we go please to paragraph page 5 of the statements at I WS 4 zeros 1 1 5 7 page 5 and could we highlight paragraphs 22
00:18:35 5 and could we highlight paragraphs 22 22
00:18:43 if you at the top in paragraph 20 you explains to Wobby that you were not given any instructions or information
00:18:54 given any instructions or information about the fire alarms use testing or maintenance of them when I moved in at any time since and then in 21 you say I'm I'm not aware of any fire safety
00:19:05 I'm I'm not aware of any fire safety measures in the tower if I take you now to paragraph 22 what you say is that I've seen one or two fire safety notices in the tower but cannot remember exactly
00:19:16 in the tower but cannot remember exactly where these were in the tower I'd like to show you please a photograph which was taken from inside the tower after the fire are you okay with we're seeing
00:19:28 the fire are you okay with we're seeing a photograph like that this is no problem mr. chairman if I explain and whilst I'm doing so maybe if others would find any image distressing then
00:19:39 would find any image distressing then this might be the moment for them to leave or turn away but it's not an image which is distressing but it is a fire safety notice which we've shown witnesses before could we have please be
00:19:52 witnesses before could we have please be la four zeros two four one six if I could explain to you mr. Wahby it's a fire safety notice which was cited at the lifts and in this
00:20:05 cited at the lifts and in this particular notice was cited at the lifts on floor three do you remember seeing a notice like this between the lifts on your floor yes and what about the ground
00:20:18 your floor yes and what about the ground floor do you remember the notice like that on the ground floor yes it is run in the ground here or do you remember seeing a sign like that on by the lifts on any other floor no
00:20:34 you can see at the top that it explains there's a stay policy for residents unless the fire is in or affecting your flat what was that a phrase that was in
00:20:45 flat what was that a phrase that was in your mind before the 14th of June 2017 No
00:20:57 we know from your statement that on the night of the fire you didn't stay in your flat what influenced your decision to leave your flat what do you mean by
00:21:12 to leave your flat what do you mean by the wind the fire cut from the window well let me take you back to your statement back to the page 5 that we were looking at and again if we look at paragraphs 22 22 please
00:21:32 I'll come to in more detail to what you did on the night but when one reads your statement what you did decide to do when you notice the fire was to leave your
00:21:44 you notice the fire was to leave your flat and my question is that although you you you had seen signs like the one we've just shown you it's just what what motivated you to
00:21:55 it's just what what motivated you to leave your flat rather than stay in it
00:22:01 well I made a decision to leave my flat because when I came to my flat
00:22:13 because when I came to my flat that's evening like normal I was just you to go and take a shower and I heard
00:22:31 you to go and take a shower and I heard something cracking in the kitchen window
00:22:37 before the he before hearing the cracking in the window I I was planning
00:22:50 cracking in the window I I was planning for a trip abroad on the 15 to Saudi Arabia so I came in normal after having
00:23:02 Arabia so I came in normal after having a breakfast away from the house with my family somewhere in Ealing Broadway so when I came in I put everything as
00:23:15 when I came in I put everything as normal and
00:23:22 I did close my doll I normally leave the key the keys inside the inside the lock from indoors and that night I didn't I
00:23:37 from indoors and that night I didn't I just bought them in the sitting room and I starts poking my clothes and get everything really for the following day may I just interrupt you in a moment mr.
00:23:49 may I just interrupt you in a moment mr. Wallace
00:23:50 Wallace you've given us a great deal of information and if I may can I try and take that in stages with you but before I do that and before we get to the night
00:24:01 I do that and before we get to the night of the fire can I just draw your attention just to the last sentence of your paragraph 22 where you say away from Greenville tower I've received fire
00:24:13 from Greenville tower I've received fire safety training at work and the event in the event of a fire I would get out of the building as quickly as possible using the stairs to go back to the question that I asked you you had seen a
00:24:25 question that I asked you you had seen a sign that advised people to stay did what you had learnt from work influenced your decision at all well from work I'd you know if I saw a fire I have to run
00:24:36 you know if I saw a fire I have to run for my life I'm not gonna stay indoors thank you that was my decision sorry yep thank you very much could we go to the next paragraph on paragraph 23 on the
00:24:49 next paragraph on paragraph 23 on the same page please we will come back to the night itself but before we do I just want to ask you about smoke alarms in
00:25:00 want to ask you about smoke alarms in your flat you say that you had two one in the kitchen and one in the corridor inside the flat how did you know they were smoke alarms well I should not have smoke alarms because I do training at
00:25:12 smoke alarms because I do training at work and they're just not understand my test lately last year even off what's going on I've just done my test on fire even if I'm not that if even if I'm not
00:25:24 even if I'm not that if even if I'm not working I have to carry on and prepare myself to go back to my normal life so I know about the years walking along and before before the
00:25:36 walking along and before before the night of the fire did the alarms in your flat ever go off no so for example if you were cooking wood would that ever
00:25:47 you were cooking wood would that ever cause the alarms to go off it depends but where there are occasions when it did they did go off did another one saw
00:26:07 can we just jump then just to power a page eight of your statement and look at paragraph 40
00:26:21 you're talking there about the extractor fan in the kitchen and the last sentence that you say is that you use to put it on and the it is the extractor fan I
00:26:34 on and the it is the extractor fan I used to put it on when I cooked otherwise the smoke would set off the smoke alarm so just so that we can be clear and there's no ambiguity by using this the
00:26:46 there's no ambiguity by using this the did you put the extractor fan on so that you wouldn't have any smoke and therefore that meant that your smoke alarms never got set off when I moved in
00:26:57 alarms never got set off when I moved in they never used to have that fan in the window and then they just put it on lately after wood and it was not that it wasn't working properly and then they
00:27:09 wasn't working properly and then they came in and then the fix is a problem and I never had guys in my in my flat anyway we just been using electricity
00:27:20 anyway we just been using electricity because of my mom and I never had any problem with the alarm even the fan which is on the window thank you let's go back to paragraph 23
00:27:33 thank you let's go back to paragraph 23 then on page 5
00:27:56 you refer in that paragraph to a plastic wrap cover that had been left on the smoke alarms from when they were installed were those were those plastic
00:28:09 installed were those were those plastic wraps still on the alarms on the night of the fire yes I loved them there you say in the same paragraph at the very end I did not
00:28:20 same paragraph at the very end I did not hear the fire or smoke alarm go off in the tower now when you're referring to smoke alarm there are you throwing to an alarm in your flat yes and what about
00:28:31 alarm in your flat yes and what about fire alarm what are you referring to there the smoke alarm never went in my house but when I came out from my flat I did hear the smoke alarm went on but
00:28:42 did hear the smoke alarm went on but regarding the fire alarm in the corridor I never went on so when you say you did hear the smoke alarm go on was that the smoke alarm in your flat it's easiest
00:28:53 smoke alarm in your flat it's easiest from my flats I follow thank you um you said what you've explained is that you did not hear the fire alarm in the
00:29:04 did not hear the fire alarm in the corridor and is that that is that in the landing area outside your flat it is a big difference between smoke alarm and fire alarm I did I can recognize it's a
00:29:16 fire alarm I did I can recognize it's a smoke alarm and the fire alarm so the fire alarm which is added here is coming from my house so you had had it a fire alarm in your house no smoke alarm in my
00:29:27 alarm in your house no smoke alarm in my house right that's what I did here when I was coming out from the flat so where was the fire alarm that you will you refer to you're talking about the fire alarm in the corridor yes well what what
00:29:40 alarm in the corridor yes well what what do you mean by corridor the whole way I see so if that is that the corridor or the hallway of your flat yes I follow so that what there was was smoke alarm in
00:29:52 that what there was was smoke alarm in your flat and a fire alarm no not in my for lots more Diddy's a smoke alarm in my flaws but the fire alarm is outside my flat right and where was it outside it's just when
00:30:03 and where was it outside it's just when you come out from the when I come out it's my right hand so when I come out from my door I want to show you another photograph if I may
00:30:15 to show you another photograph if I may and again I give the usual warning mr. chairman so if before we put it up if others want to look away now or step out now is the opportunity but it is again
00:30:28 now is the opportunity but it is again an image that we have shown before could we have please be la four zeros to five one three rotations mr. weisl beef
00:30:50 five one three rotations mr. weisl beef I explained this is a photograph taken by one of our experts and it's of the interior of the tower after the fire and it's the photograph taken on the sixth floor can you see that in the ceiling
00:31:01 floor can you see that in the ceiling there's a white object on the ceiling do you see that yes what was that something that you had noticed on the ceiling of
00:31:12 that you had noticed on the ceiling of your floor yeah that's all it's in old floors that ceiling and what did you take that object to be why all along and why did you think it was a fire alarm
00:31:25 why did you think it was a fire alarm when that's what we that's what I know but how do you know that well if a fire once all the lights must come if the
00:31:38 once all the lights must come if the need is a fire that lights must come on
00:31:43 as well as the light coming on what did you expect it to do or to start beeping on giving a noise and was it your assumption that when you came home and
00:31:54 assumption that when you came home and you saw that in the ceiling on your floor did you assume that that was a fire alarm can you repeat the question well in in your statement you say I was
00:32:06 well in in your statement you say I was not given any instructions or informations about the fire alarms you also say I was not aware of any fire safety measures in the tower you've now told us that that white object that we
00:32:19 told us that that white object that we see on
00:32:20 see on on the image was on your floor and that you expected it to make a sound or the light to go on was it your assumption from looking at it that it was a fire alarm well is it
00:32:36 it that it was a fire alarm well is it if he's on the sixth floor is going to be in all floors so and if there is a
00:32:47 be in all floors so and if there is a fire that meant to be going on giving warning to people did anyone ever tell you what that object was no I think mr.
00:33:00 you what that object was no I think mr. ramish question really is did you expect that to make a sound yes loud warning that's correct what you thought it yes thank you can we go to
00:33:14 thought it yes thank you can we go to page six then of your statement and paragraph 26 please
00:33:24 I just draw your attention to the last sentence of the paragraph where you say the front door did not have any closing
00:33:35 the front door did not have any closing mechanism on it and it would not close by itself how did you know that the front door did not have a closing mechanism on it
00:33:46 mechanism on it because I used that at all all the time there is no mechanism on it did it look as if it should have had a mechanism on it
00:33:57 yes you moved in in February 2014
00:34:08 yes you moved in in February 2014 correct was the door like that from the time that you moved in yes so did it look as if the closing mechanism had
00:34:19 look as if the closing mechanism had been removed no the door was brown you and well before I moved in when I want to view the place there was some problem
00:34:32 to view the place there was some problem with the lock they've changed the rock and there I did notice there is no mechanism on the door so I just you know you have to pull it up and then close it
00:34:43 you have to pull it up and then close it and there is some complication on the door anyway so it did it look as if a mechanism had just never been fitted to the Nova did you ever ask for a closing
00:34:54 the Nova did you ever ask for a closing mechanism to be fitted no was the door easy to close the door is easy to close but when you use the key to close the
00:35:05 but when you use the key to close the door it's very complicated
00:35:08 and once you'd shut the door could someone push it open from the outside if the door wasn't locked sorry can you repeat if was sure if you shut
00:35:20 can you repeat if was sure if you shut the door and I was standing outside it but you hadn't locked it could I simply just open the door from the outside No
00:35:32 so someone turning the handle of your unlocked front door wouldn't be able to come in no
00:35:46 could you now on the same page please highlight paragraph 27 this is about the
00:36:03 highlight paragraph 27 this is about the I think there's paragraph deals with the main entrance to the tower and you say as you pass the main entrance you had to be quick to catch the second door as it was linked to the main door so when the
00:36:14 was linked to the main door so when the main door opened the next door would open if you were to slow then the second door would close and you had to use a fob if a visitor rings on entry system to get in they had to be quick to get
00:36:25 to get in they had to be quick to get through second door so just so that we can understand this does that mean that when you applied your key fob at the main entrance it would automatically unlock the internal door to the lift
00:36:38 unlock the internal door to the lift lobby exactly yes you have to be quick to get to the second door otherwise you have to go back outside and then ring the bell and it's very so the two doors would open at the same time no they only
00:36:49 would open at the same time no they only the front door so once you put your foot in the front door you have to be quick to reach the second door otherwise you have to come out back again you have to be it's very complicated situation for
00:37:03 be it's very complicated situation for the doors sorry up to what say you use your phone but the main entrance yeah and then you'd have to run in to get to the internal daughter lift lobby and was
00:37:15 the internal daughter lift lobby and was that then had that already been unlocked if you don't have a fault if you are just a visitor and if you call from the main door you have to be quick to open because I think they linked to each
00:37:27 because I think they linked to each other the ball falls otherwise you know you have to go back and ring again and this is the this is how I look at it I thought so if I if I were visiting your flat yeah you buzz me in mm-hmm I'd have
00:37:39 flat yeah you buzz me in mm-hmm I'd have to I'd have to make it to the internal door pretty quick through your else that's or else I'd have to come out and buzz you and that's it correct but if you were there and you had your key fob
00:37:50 you were there and you had your key fob you could get through both doors with your key fob correct yes
00:38:03 could I take you then to page seven
00:38:09 before we leave that the two doors you've got if you're at the main entrance there's a there's a fob mechanism that you can use to open the
00:38:20 mechanism that you can use to open the main entrance is that right sure was they're the same mechanism to open the internal door that led to the lift lobby so I said oh yeah
00:38:34 lift lobby so I said oh yeah can I do it we're using an image please again mr. chairman our I'll give the usual warning it's not a distressing image but it is an image CCC had taken
00:38:47 image but it is an image CCC had taken on the night if we look please at iq500
00:38:57 that's the main entrance hmm so you could use a fob key to open that door couldn't you sure right let's go
00:39:08 door couldn't you sure right let's go now to NQ five zeros 475 we could expand that a little bit
00:39:22 this is an image we're going to come back to that just for the record we see there's a gentleman wearing a a red top and is that you that's me you're only
00:39:33 and is that you that's me you're only four well we'll come back to that image of course but we can see that propped open there's a door that would lead and you can see the lifts beyond do you see
00:39:45 you can see the lifts beyond do you see that door probably this is a reason why he lifts his horn so but if I if in normal times to get through that door if it was closed could was there somewhere
00:39:56 it was closed could was there somewhere you could press your fob key to open that door yes you can't use your fob key of course but we're talking about if someone come and visits and he hasn't got the fault he's got if he's got to be quick
00:40:07 he's got if he's got to be quick otherwise the system will need a certain time so if your fob lists you have to move let's see it's correct well let's go to page seven now and paragraph 32
00:40:19 go to page seven now and paragraph 32 please
00:40:33 what you've talked about house if I tell you just to the first sentence the floor landing was normally always hot and stuffy are you referring there to your landing on the 16th floor quirks were
00:40:47 landing on the 16th floor quirks were there particular times when the landing was like that can you please repeat well you say that the floor landing was normally always hot and stuffy mm-hmm
00:40:59 normally always hot and stuffy mm-hmm were there particularly times of the day that you noticed that it was hot and stuffy yes the reason I said that because I normally you know I when I
00:41:11 because I normally you know I when I moved to my flat I hear about some plans and I normally put them in front of my door so they keep dying because there is no air there it's only it's hot all the
00:41:23 no air there it's only it's hot all the time so it's not one plant or two or three so I put them there and they just die quickly can I show you please two
00:41:35 die quickly can I show you please two images again I give the usual warning if anyone wants to look away or step out but it's one of them is an image we've already seen today and they're two
00:41:46 already seen today and they're two photographs taken of the interior of the tower after the fire could I have side-by-side please be LA four zeros two five one three and be LA four zeros two
00:41:58 five one three and be LA four zeros two five one four if I explained mr. Wahby
00:42:10 five one four if I explained mr. Wahby these I think we've shown you one of them but they're photographs taken on the sixth floor two five one three
00:42:21 the sixth floor two five one three he's looking north towards flats four five and six and two five one four south towards flats one two and three but you can see that in the image that's on the
00:42:32 can see that in the image that's on the left-hand side can you see that there are at the far wall there are two grills at the top can you see those yes and if you look on the other photograph on the wall there are two grills at the
00:42:43 wall there are two grills at the do you see those yes do you remember seeing grills like that on the 16th floor no you've said that
00:42:57 on the 16th floor no you've said that the ventilation was bad on your floor did you ever hear any noise like a fan noise at all yes all the time I did hear some noise but not from this two images
00:43:10 some noise but not from this two images here but you heard a noise on the 16th floor that sounded like a fan that's correct
00:43:17 correct can you describe that noise at all oh no I describe that noise either like just when you start your car something like
00:43:28 when you start your car something like that and was it particularly loud no it's all not really not very loud and
00:43:44 it's all not really not very loud and you say that you could hear it all the time but can you be a bit more specific about what time were particular times of the year that you'd hear this noise or particular times of the day well I you
00:43:57 particular times of the day well I you know I leave home early and I don't come until 8:00 so I'm not there all the time so just some dead just like midday I
00:44:09 so just some dead just like midday I just when I'm delivering some food to my mum so I'm not there I'm not you know I don't give attention too much to the to what's going on up there when you left early in the morning were you aware of
00:44:21 early in the morning were you aware of the noise yes and when you you say you pop back up midday to see your mother yes for your we're still aware of the noise then and in the evenings when you got back and the evening when I get out
00:44:32 got back and the evening when I get out from the lifts I go straight to my flat on but you've got three times of the day when you're coming round for the years that doing the best that you can did the
00:44:44 that doing the best that you can did the noise ever very at all noise is there all the time before we leave these two images you can see that there are light fittings in the ceiling
00:44:58 there are light fittings in the ceiling and there are four there taken together do you remember seeing four lights in the ceiling of your floor yes okay can
00:45:13 the ceiling of your floor yes okay can we go back to your statement please page seven so I WS four zeros one one five seven page seven and look at paragraph 35
00:45:29 what you've said the door to the stairs also had a self closing mechanism at the top this was working on the door closed by itself properly when I used the stairs to train
00:45:40 stairs to train I remember that most of the doors on the stairs from the other floors were closed most of the time that means that there must have been some doors that were not
00:45:51 must have been some doors that were not closed
00:45:53 closed could you tell why they were not closed
00:45:59 well as far as I know from the sixteenth floor the door very very hard when he when you open it so that means he's got
00:46:10 when you open it so that means he's got some mechanism on the top about the other floors I don't I don't know but did you see doors when you were using the stairs for training mmm did you see
00:46:22 the stairs for training mmm did you see doors that were open you mean the stairs were all stair doors that led to other floors did you ever see them open no
00:46:41 we go please to the next page of your statement and look at paragraphs 40 and 41 paragraph that we looked at a little
00:46:53 41 paragraph that we looked at a little earlier which was when we were you were talking about the extractor fan and you explained there that it was changed and
00:47:05 explained there that it was changed and this is the extractor fan in your kitchen once the extractor fan was replaced did you have any further problems with it no you say in paragraph
00:47:22 problems with it no you say in paragraph 41 that you could hear cooking smells or you could you could smell cooking smells was that when you were in your kitchen that you could smell that yes I do
00:47:38 that you could smell that yes I do sometimes the washing machine from my neighbor next door probably I believe so I'm not sure Bobby's a Richard and you
00:47:49 I'm not sure Bobby's a Richard and you know when you for instance if you just will not take the rubbish out the lobby there you can smear some cooking food going on but so that but whilst you were
00:48:03 going on but so that but whilst you were in your flat the particular place where you could smell cooking smells from others asses in the kitchen was it yes definitely coming up from the maybe from the 14 or 15 for all fourth year from
00:48:15 the 14 or 15 for all fourth year from the 14 or 15 floor and it was also whilst you were in the kitchen that you could hear machine noises yes especially in night time I do hear machines working
00:48:29 in night time I do hear machines working and via the wall those were washing machines is that what Londoners is gonna go washing machine
00:48:40 well could we now turn to the events of the 13th and 14th of June cells if we go please to page 9 in your statement
00:48:57 you've explained in your statement and you've already told us today that you were out that evening of the 13th of June weren't you yes clerks and I think
00:49:10 June weren't you yes clerks and I think in your statement you put the time that you've started to make your way home as between 12:20 and 12:30 a.m. and on that night you were home alone is that right
00:49:21 night you were home alone is that right correct yes when you got home and this would now have been in the just in that the beginnings of the 14th of June but
00:49:33 the beginnings of the 14th of June but when you got home what was the temperature like on your landing when you got home what do you mean by temperature my landing inside the house no fair point
00:49:48 the house no fair point you would have come back gone to the 16th floor okay and stepped out I'll call it the lobby area yeah right so the area that's the communal area that's outside your door on the 16th floor do
00:50:01 outside your door on the 16th floor do you have any recollection of what the temperature was like on the that Lobby area when you got home it was normal normal so like I said you know the the noise from that phone and then I just
00:50:13 noise from that phone and then I just got in in my flats and when you say normal does that mean that it was as you described it before hot and stuffy yeah sometimes it's very hot and sometimes it's not and you have a distinct memory
00:50:28 it's not and you have a distinct memory of hearing the noise of fans when you got home that night yes
00:50:42 if we look at the next page in the statement page 10 please
00:50:53 and if we could look at paragraph 51 52
00:51:02 what you say in the this part of your statement mr. Wahby is that at about 1:15 a.m. you were about to take a shower
00:51:12 shower how did you establish the time well I did establish a time by putting my phone on charger my laptop my bought two
00:51:26 on charger my laptop my bought two phones on charge and then you know chicken the battery and the time come up say and that was just before you then went and decided to take a shower that's
00:51:38 went and decided to take a shower that's correct
00:51:42 what you then say is that you heard crackling from the coming from the kitchen
00:51:51 can you describe that noise further please okay the year when I've done my first before I put my earphone to be
00:52:04 first before I put my earphone to be charged I've done my I was doing my prying I finished by in and then I put all my equipment to be charged so really to fry the following day then I picked up a tower go into the to take a shower
00:52:18 up a tower go into the to take a shower because we don't have a bath anyway so situation is made for my mum disabled so I just took a shower or go into the bathroom getting out from the
00:52:30 into the bathroom getting out from the kitchen going straight to the bath something very very strange which is I never heard before something was rocking
00:52:43 never heard before something was rocking and I just turned back and I wanted to the to the kitchen I saw the fire
00:52:56 the to the kitchen I saw the fire well can we pause there ma'am it's Gemma I've been asking questions for almost 45 minutes and I was going to ask for a break and before we move on to more
00:53:08 break and before we move on to more details it's ok carry on please we'll do a few more minutes yeah I think
00:53:15 [Music] if you can help me with this let me know but if you can't just tell me but I'll try I'll try to help as much as I can yes thank you you said I think of a few
00:53:31 yes thank you you said I think of a few moments ago that the the the sound that you heard was not like something you'd heard before but do you have anything to compare it to yes it's like somewhere in the wall or
00:53:44 yes it's like somewhere in the wall or something and whether it distinct sounds or a continuous sound of crackling yes continuous sound it's yes you tooth
00:54:00 could I before we go on just ask you a little bit about the layout of your flat that's all right we have please m83 zeros one two five nine three and
00:54:14 m83 zeros one two five nine three and page 12 of that document if we could expand flat six at the top
00:54:32 mr. Wahby if I could explain to you that the diagram that we've shown you is one that is for the fourth floor but the layout of the flats for the floors above
00:54:43 layout of the flats for the floors above that matches and so we can use that to orientate ourselves around your flat hmm so what we see is a flat six here yours
00:54:55 so what we see is a flat six here yours would of course have been flat one three six but it's two bedrooms did you have a door from the hallway into the kitchen
00:55:07 door from the hallway into the kitchen yes there is a door from the hallway to the kitchen correct if you were in the kitchen could you also step from the kitchen into the lounge if you're in the
00:55:21 kitchen into the lounge if you're in the kitchen yes there is you can step to the sitting room there is some slides doors so there were so if we we just again if
00:55:32 so there were so if we we just again if you tell tell me if I've got this wrong so there would have been a door that would have opened from the hallway into the kitchen yeah you would have had a door that would have opened from the hallway into your lounge
00:55:43 hallway into your lounge kircheis but if you were already in the kitchen yes you could step through sliding doors into the ladders correct yes that's very helpful but and taking
00:55:56 yes that's very helpful but and taking you back to the nice itself you're in the about sake of shower you know here this crackling sound that you've described and you then as you explained
00:56:08 described and you then as you explained in your statement went to find out what was going on before you reached your kitchen leave having left the bathroom were you aware of any smoke in your flat No
00:56:23 if we go back please just to page 10 and look please a paragraphs 51 down to 53
00:56:41 in paragraph 52 you describe seeing flames when you reach the kitchen was
00:56:52 flames when you reach the kitchen was there any smoke in the kitchen
00:56:55 when I when I came out when I came back from the shell she's another did took so I just came to the kitchen and there was no smoke no smoke at all what'd you say
00:57:15 no smoke no smoke at all what'd you say that you could see flames which you described and you say of the flames the flames are red large and appear to be coming from the flat below the 15th floor they covered my whole window and
00:57:26 floor they covered my whole window and appear to be going up above my window so just so that we can understand it were these then flames that you could see outside your window gracias so nothing had come into your flow at that moment
00:57:38 had come into your flow at that moment not at that moment what you explained is that you then opened the window slightly so that you could have a look out was
00:57:50 so that you could have a look out was that when you open it was that the first time that smoke came into the house into the kitchen when I came in when I came back from the shower like you know when
00:58:04 back from the shower like you know when I came back to the kitchen and what I saw from my window something very very strange and I just decided to go to the
00:58:19 strange and I just decided to go to the window you know I tried to open the one to the handler of the window tried to open the window and just everything once
00:58:32 open the window and just everything once like the smoke and the fire just like following me and it was something very very strange so the at that time the
00:58:45 very strange so the at that time the kitchen everything wants black so most of the smoke which is which is
00:58:56 so most of the smoke which is which is came which is one to the little lobby came out from my philosophers can I pose them as channel would this be a convenient moment it might be a good
00:59:07 convenient moment it might be a good point to have a break like this awesome thank you
00:59:12 so I'm gonna ask him please not to talk about your evidence yes when you're out of the room yes and we'll come back and start again at eleven o'clock with a right thank you sir good we'd like to
00:59:23 right thank you sir good we'd like to give the usher than please
00:59:33 [Music] all right eleven o'clock room please
01:00:55 you
01:09:48 you
01:11:49 breakfast - are you happy - carry on yes sir thank you very much yes Thank You mr. chairman mr. Wahby I just want to ask you a couple more
01:12:00 just want to ask you a couple more questions if I may about the kitchen window yes and to do that I'd like to show you an image again I give the warning that it is an image which was
01:12:12 warning that it is an image which was not distressing it itself has taken of the inside of the tower after the fire so if others may wish to look away or step out the reference is BL AR seven
01:12:28 step out the reference is BL AR seven zeros three and then page 23 thank you very much for alpha this is a photograph
01:12:39 very much for alpha this is a photograph taken in flat thirteen and it's of a kitchen window in flat thirteen is that
01:12:53 kitchen window in flat thirteen is that what your kitchen window looked like my kitchen window
01:13:10 this is not my kitchen window it's not your kitchen window about thirteen but did you have it did the kitchen window in your flat look like that if it doesn't help you tell me and well it
01:13:21 doesn't help you tell me and well it looks to me this is too big size and I don't know but my kitchen window just needed seemed very similar I'm not the fun fun is about new one but did you
01:13:33 fun fun is about new one but did you have two windows like that as in a large window on the left as we look at it and a smaller one yes same window um what
01:13:45 a smaller one yes same window um what you say in your statement is that you opened the window slightly so you could have a look out using that image can you
01:13:57 have a look out using that image can you tell us which window you opened a small window on the right-hand side because I had some plans next to the big windows so I went to the small one which is
01:14:08 so I went to the small one which is clear so sometimes when we are cooking we open the small window including the fan working
01:14:20 taking us through it when you open the window in your statement you say you opened it slightly what could you when you were trying to open it what could you see outside the window by and when
01:14:35 you see outside the window by and when you were holding the handle who was was there anything happening with the window at that time well I you know it was fire
01:14:53 at that time well I you know it was fire but I just said was it going on and I went to the window and I hold upon my hand on the handrail try to open the window the time I did opened the window
01:15:04 window the time I did opened the window it was something like a reflection just something just followed me quickly as you know the the building was on a fire from all the way from the 14th floor so
01:15:16 from all the way from the 14th floor so that means it's too much heat was going on coming up all the way to the 16th floor can you remember how far you open
01:15:28 floor can you remember how far you open you were able to open the window while I was right in front of the window because on my right-hand side there is a fridge and I just not that far
01:15:39 and I just not that far not even the distance between me and the window like from here this monitor and it was a very very shocking reaction
01:15:51 it was a very very shocking reaction when I opened the window so the the distance between you and the window is as you said the distance between the edge of the desk and the monitor and how
01:16:03 edge of the desk and the monitor and how far out how far were you able to open the window well I want to the windows just like this you know I'm always in front though I was gonna come gonna I mean I was I was planning to look what's going on from the window so I just you
01:16:17 going on from the window so I just you know at that time have to to run as quick as possible and we're in
01:16:28 quick as possible and we're in at that time let's go back to your statement then and go back to I WS 4 zeros 1 1 5 7 page 10 and let's look
01:16:44 zeros 1 1 5 7 page 10 and let's look again at paragraph 52 and 53
01:16:53 I don't need to take you to it but in an earlier paragraph of your statement mr. one being you say of the windows in your
01:17:06 one being you say of the windows in your flat the windows had plastic frames and the shelves underneath the windows were also made of plastic the windows only opened a small amount and were difficult to clean mm-hmm was that also true of the windows in the
01:17:19 was that also true of the windows in the kitchen that they only opened a small amount yes but if you have some knowledge how to open the small window
01:17:32 knowledge how to open the small window there is some mechanism on it so you just remove it and then the small window will open wide so and had you adjusted
01:17:43 will open wide so and had you adjusted that mechanism so that you could open your small window what add that I'm not to that time before yes before yes you know yeah I did and was that was that
01:17:54 know yeah I did and was that was that mechanism in place on the night no got on the night so this was a window that could only be open slightly on that night correct yes what you say
01:18:11 night correct yes what you say I cannot remember if the window was not hot to touch but upon opening it the smoke pushed the window and started coming into the kitchen could you describe the smell of the smoke
01:18:28 the smell of the smoke it's you know I'm just gonna see classic smell because the
01:18:44 just gonna see classic smell because the window is rolled with all them plastic all over the windows in the kitchen sitting room and even the ceiling some part of the ceiling there are some
01:18:56 part of the ceiling there are some plastics did you see anything happening to the plastic frame of the kitchen window well when I opened the window
01:19:10 window well when I opened the window kitchen the fire maybe starts burning the plastic straight away did you actually see that
01:19:21 straight away did you actually see that no I ran I didn't see nothing at all and before you left the kitchen were you able to see any flames coming into the kitchen under the percent flames came
01:19:33 kitchen under the percent flames came inside the kitchen and how did those flames come inside the kitchen well fire coming out from the from the from the building from the probably from
01:19:45 from the building from the probably from from the outside getting in catching with the plastic did they come in through the window that was open corrects did you see flames coming in
01:19:58 corrects did you see flames coming in yes be anywhere else not on the way so it was just through the window you know - sure - a window and the smoke wants all the way to the sitting room where was all my equipment so I couldn't even
01:20:10 was all my equipment so I couldn't even take nothing with me so especially the key I normally so I just want to mention this if you don't mind the key are normally as I said I normally leave the key by the door but that noise I left
01:20:21 key by the door but that noise I left the key in the sitting room and I was very I'm not gonna say I'm lucky I left the keys in the sitting room and I never closed the door well can I come back to that sorry yeah sorry I just have to
01:20:34 that sorry yeah sorry I just have to mention otherwise it will yes know what I'm thinking I will I do have the questions for you about the living room fine
01:20:42 room fine what I want to do is just a couple more questions about the kitchen please did you have any blinds or curtains at the kitchen window no and you've described
01:20:53 kitchen window no and you've described flames coming in through that window that you'd open did you see anything catch fire in the kitchen no if we look
01:21:04 catch fire in the kitchen no if we look at paragraph 53 now and now we're coming to the living room to the lobby but you say you left and went into the sitting room
01:21:12 room did you was that through the sliding doors that opened from the kitchen into the lounge that's correct yes and you
01:21:24 the lounge that's correct yes and you say that the sitting room was filled with smoke just so that we can be clear where had that smoke come from smoke came out from the kitchen by it was very very very fast smoke coming from the
01:21:38 very very fast smoke coming from the window
01:21:39 window so I just couldn't get nothing from the sitting room do you remember if any of your sitting room windows were open that night no and so what was it the case
01:21:54 night no and so what was it the case that the smoke was following you from the kitchen into the living room correct I closed oh I made sure before going to the shower I did close all the windows
01:22:06 the shower I did close all the windows so I'd want to leave them because I was gonna go away the following day you say
01:22:17 gonna go away the following day you say at the end of parallel 53 described as a very strange smoke and you described the effect on you can you tell us a little bit more about the physical effect that that smoke had on you please well very
01:22:32 that smoke had on you please well very very strange smoke which is I never smelled that kind of smell before just start
01:22:45 Cowen's straight away I start scoffing battery and the sorry spitting as much as I can under the
01:22:56 spitting as much as I can under the speed some black smoke coming I did notice that under took a picture of it and some blood and was that whilst you did that happen when you were in your
01:23:07 did that happen when you were in your living room then I was spitting that and when I came out the stairs to the main stairs can I come back to that then when
01:23:18 stairs can I come back to that then when we get to when you get to the main stairs please if we look now paradise 54 and 55 on the same page you explain in
01:23:36 and 55 on the same page you explain in paragraph 54 that you got dressed but you didn't put your shoes on and then you went into the landing area outside your flat door and what you say is that
01:23:50 your flat door and what you say is that all of the items that I had packed to go away were in the sitting room but I did not have a chance to go and get any of them as the smoke was intense did you have any lights on in your flat at this
01:24:01 have any lights on in your flat at this time yes I had the part in my flood that time when you were getting dressed and getting ready to leave
01:24:12 getting ready to leave could you tell can you remember how much smoke there was in your living room at the time the the door the door in the
01:24:25 the time the the door the door in the kitchen
01:24:28 it's normally inside so when I came out from the kitchen the smoke was following and I'm just made the decision to put my
01:24:41 and I'm just made the decision to put my trouser which was on the top of the the heater just to make you a bit warm so I took my I remember I had my
01:24:53 took my I remember I had my my jump on top of the heater which is next to the which is next to the air shower and look in the corridor in your
01:25:05 shower and look in the corridor in your hallway yeah in the hallway so we have a we have a heater there next to the shower yes so when you were standing in
01:25:16 shower yes so when you were standing in your hallway how I'm getting dressed how much smoke was there in your mouth yes more came all the way starts coming smoke starts coming to the hallway so was the kitchen door open the door from
01:25:29 was the kitchen door open the door from the hallway into the kitchen was that open the kitchen door was open because the kitchen door is always my kitchen boys always you can't even if you close the kitchen door you know it's gonna be
01:25:40 the kitchen door you know it's gonna be a bit finally saw that the kitchen door is always open so at the time I was in a rush to where the to weigh my clothes I know that
01:25:53 the to weigh my clothes I know that estimating time is difficult but from hearing that crackling sound to you're leaving the flat how much time do you think passed I wasn't at that time that
01:26:07 think passed I wasn't at that time that said no normal chances looking at my times up to be honest here so I was thinking about my my life I'm not
01:26:18 thinking about my my life I'm not looking at the time so I forget about everything try to get out as soon as poss no I never had any watch with me nothing at all that's fair answer
01:26:30 nothing at all that's fair answer I think you
01:26:37 if we go then to on to power of 55 and see what you say about the landing and here if just so we can be clear this is that the landing outside your front door isn't it where the lifts are is that
01:26:54 isn't it where the lifts are is that right yes you say that the lights were on in the landing and there was a little bit of smoke already in there when you
01:27:09 bit of smoke already in there when you went to your front door to leave the flat did you notice if there was any smoke coming in through the front door excuse me when I came out from the my
01:27:21 excuse me when I came out from the my flat to the landing there is no smoke there was no smoke there so the landing was completely clear the landing was completely clear at the time so I made
01:27:36 completely clear at the time so I made can I carry on yes please thank you I made the decision to go to the 15th floor so I thought the fires coming from the 15th floor anyway I'm
01:27:51 coming from the 15th floor anyway I'm just gonna make it quickest because I met with some people on the 50 on the on the land under the stairs so when I went to the 15th floor I jumped to the 14th floor on Miss America so I made the
01:28:02 floor on Miss America so I made the decision to come back to the 15th floor back to the 16th floor the time I came back to the 16th floor was full of smoke because I left my door open so the smoke was coming because the building the fire
01:28:15 was coming because the building the fire did catched from the northwest side how I don't know can I take that in stages then sir is it is this right that when
01:28:27 then sir is it is this right that when you left your flat and stepped into the landing it was clear of smoke correct you you left your flat door open and so the smoke that would have come in came
01:28:38 the smoke that would have come in came from your flat and there squirt can I take you just to page 11 of your statement and let's look at paragraphs 56 and
01:28:48 56 and 87 and you've already touched on this because you say that you ran to the 15th
01:29:00 because you say that you ran to the 15th floor to find out what was happening because I thought the fire was coming from there and then you say that when you got to the 15th floor you met a firefighter and you describe him as
01:29:13 firefighter and you describe him as wearing a mask can you give any other description about this firefighter at all so is there anything else that you
01:29:24 all so is there anything else that you remember about what the firefighter looked like oh yes right when I came out from my flat as I said I
01:29:36 when I came out from my flat as I said I left the door open one day I made a decision to go to the 15th floor I did open the heavy door going down I met
01:29:50 open the heavy door going down I met with well let's call it firefighter X he was I think you did well he's been
01:30:03 was I think you did well he's been questioned anyway so I met him himself struggling there give him you know trying to give us some instruction where to go I just passed him and then I went
01:30:16 to go I just passed him and then I went to the to the 14th floor which is I didn't mentioned that just came up so and I met with another firefighter that they are taking a woman Caribbean woman
01:30:28 they are taking a woman Caribbean woman from the smoke and so the smoke was coming from the 14th row on the 15th floor the firefighter man these firefighters they're on these he's Vince
01:30:40 firefighters they're on these he's Vince he was struggling there all right let's can I pause you there just try and take it in stages with you I just so when you step on from from this you're landing
01:30:53 step on from from this you're landing from the lobby area floor 16 into the stairwell was there any smoke on the stairwell that not on the 15th floor on the 16th floor
01:31:05 well when I did open this stair blow the smoke starts coming out from from 1/16 all right but but inside the stairwell itself did you notice any smoke
01:31:17 itself did you notice any smoke no no smoke at all so what it is some smoke on the 14th floor was open if I understood yes not trying to stop you but I'm like we'll get to the 14th floor
01:31:28 but I'm like we'll get to the 14th floor in a moment if I may I just want to clarify about the firefighter ok presumably he was wearing a helmet yes did you remember whether he had a black stripe on his helmet I can't remember do
01:31:42 stripe on his helmet I can't remember do you remember if he was wearing gloves no idea you said that he was a you've described him as a he in your statement
01:31:53 described him as a he in your statement he's a male firefighter is he not sheis what what you say in your statement is that you spoke to him but you don't say that he spoke to you so what was it
01:32:06 that he spoke to you so what was it about him that made you decide he was a male firefighter oh did you know he was a male and I just said to him excuse me did as a fire coming out from 15-floor
01:32:17 did as a fire coming out from 15-floor and I carried on going downstairs so remember this firefighter was carrying any equipment which I don't think so
01:32:32 what'd you say in your statement is you say I said there's a fire fire my friend but what you've now told us is what you remember saying to him is that there was a fire on the 15th floor do you now have
01:32:45 a fire on the 15th floor do you now have a specific memory of mentioning to that firefighter the 15th floor the reason I said to him there is a fire from the 15th row because I never knew that why is coming from the fourth floor so I
01:32:57 is coming from the fourth floor so I told the fires coming just from the heat from the 15th floor I never had the clue what's going on because no one I never had any call from no one while I was in my flat
01:33:08 my flat the time I once there so I just thought the fire is coming just from the 15th floor I never knew that the building was on fire but just so that we can be clear
01:33:20 on fire but just so that we can be clear because you've said well you what you recorded as saying was there's a fire fire my friend but do you now remember telling that firefighter about the 15th
01:33:31 telling that firefighter about the 15th floor I remember telling him did is a fire on the 15th floor yes now at this time and before you started going down the stairs so you're you're now at the
01:33:42 the stairs so you're you're now at the 15th floor yeah did you see any other firefighters at this time yes on the probably was the 14th floor I saw them come bring in the Caribbean woman and
01:33:53 come bring in the Caribbean woman and the smoke was coming at the time from the 14th floor but when you were with this firefighter who you've described as struggling were you aware of other
01:34:05 struggling were you aware of other firefighters being or isn't no well let's go down to the 14th floor then
01:34:17 before I take you to the 14th floor again just sticking with this firefighter when you encountered that firefighter could you see anyone else in the stairwell like another resident for
01:34:30 the stairwell like another resident for example at the time when I went to the 15th floor and never saw no one can we go to the 14th and what you say in in
01:34:41 go to the 14th and what you say in in the 14th in paragraph 57 is that you saw I went to the 14th floor and I saw firemen bringing people for out from their flats does that mean that you
01:34:56 their flats does that mean that you actually went from the stairwell into the lobby of the 14th floor correct yes and how many firefighters did you see as
01:35:08 and how many firefighters did you see as far as I know from at the 14th floor about 2 or 3 bringing a woman
01:35:19 and rather than people was it just one person that you saw these firefighters assisting yes just one person yes they are assisting one woman it was a woman did you see what flat this woman come
01:35:32 did you see what flat this woman come from no and did you see what where the firefighters took this woman do own uniform yeah but did you see where they took her de patata
01:35:43 took her de patata out yes down the stairwell yes sir
01:35:57 we go please just look at the rest of the page if you look at the first line of paragraph 58 mr. Wahby you said I
01:36:09 of paragraph 58 mr. Wahby you said I decided to go back to 16th floor and I want to ask you in a moment about that journey back to the sixteenth floor yes
01:36:20 journey back to the sixteenth floor yes but before I do can I just draw your attention to paragraph 61 which is on
01:36:31 attention to paragraph 61 which is on the next page if we could expand that please
01:36:37 so paragraph 61 deals with an event that happened after you had gone back to the sixteenth floor and when you were leaving and what you described is that you say I ran down the stairs about one
01:36:50 you say I ran down the stairs about one floor down between the 15th and 14th floor I saw a woman medium build in her mid 50s being helped down the stairs by two firefighters one of them was holding her hand yeah
01:37:02 her hand yeah is this the woman that you are thinking of definitely yes a woman she was you know she was shouting yes and just so
01:37:17 know she was shouting yes and just so that we can be clear about the sequence of events hmm in your statement you say that you saw this woman after you had returned to the 16th floor and then
01:37:29 returned to the 16th floor and then decided to go back down the stairs to leave that out your evidence today is that you saw this woman before you returned to the 16th floor when you went
01:37:41 returned to the 16th floor when you went down to the 14th do you follow so just so that we can be clear dorama is your memory now that you saw this firefighters assisting this lady before you had returned to the 16th
01:37:53 lady before you had returned to the 16th floor let me make it clear oh yeah so when I came out from the 16th floor to the 15th floor and then jumped to the 14 I saw the
01:38:06 to the 14 I saw the LF be taking the woman out from the 14th floor helping her to get out I returned back to the jumping quickly to the 15 and back to the 16th floor this is this
01:38:20 and back to the 16th floor this is this is it so and when you you told us then that you went to the 14th floor and
01:38:32 that you went to the 14th floor and that's what you saw can you remember what the conditions were like on the 14th floor condition was clear but when the when I wind the door the door from the 14th floor was
01:38:43 door the door from the 14th floor was opened the smoke was coming as soon as you opened the main door to the stairs the smoke starts coming from the lobbies into the stairs in the sisters yes and did you yourself open that door which
01:38:56 did you yourself open that door which one on the 14th floor no no I was far away I didn't did his foot why we got perverted they doing that job not me I saw them taking the lady and I have to rush back to the 15 and then back to the
01:39:08 rush back to the 15 and then back to the 16th when you saw them taking the lady was she on the stairwell or had you gone into the 14th floor lobby they just being in her out from the main huntress at all from the lobby so just so that we
01:39:21 at all from the lobby so just so that we can be clear you didn't actually get into the lobby of the 14 or 7 so if we if we recap a little bit is the sequence this you leave the 16th floor go down to
01:39:34 this you leave the 16th floor go down to the 15th where you meet this firefighter correct yes go down to the 14 mm-hmm you don't go on to the 14th floor lobby not you then see firefighters assisting a lady that's
01:39:46 firefighters assisting a lady that's gross down the stairs yes that's at that time I did you realize something was going on under on the tower
01:39:57 can I take you back to your evidence about your return to the floor please it's page 11 of the statement and can we have paragraphs 58 and 59 what you
01:40:14 have paragraphs 58 and 59 what you described in these paragraphs is your return to the 16th floor why did you decide to go back to the 16th floor well
01:40:27 decide to go back to the 16th floor well I made a decision to go to the 16th floor because I thought I might go and help as much as I can and try to get some of my you know some of my starving
01:40:39 some of my you know some of my starving especially my passports my my passport or mine
01:40:44 or mine and unfortunately there is no way to get there as you were making your way back up the stairs to the 16th floor did you
01:40:57 up the stairs to the 16th floor did you see any firefighters in the stair same firefighter X was still there and was firefighter X in the same location exactly because you know maybe it was
01:41:08 exactly because you know maybe it was coming from as far as I know and as far as I saw he was talking about he came out from the first from the second floor all the way to B because he didn't know which floor he was well so he was under
01:41:21 which floor he was well so he was under 40 under 15th floor what's important to us is what you remember of that nurse yourself yes he was there and you had never encountered firefighter and all
01:41:32 never encountered firefighter and all before had you so was he in the same place as you'd first seen him same place yes with the light still on in the stairwell yes and what more was there
01:41:45 stairwell yes and what more was there any smoke in the stairwell as you went back up from the 14th to the 16th no and what was the temperature like in a stairwell at this time all mall and what
01:41:56 stairwell at this time all mall and what do you mean by normal temperature it's a normal mean you know 15 16 degrees Celsius
01:42:08 hmm if we if I draw your attention to paragraph 58 and the third scent of its third sentence what you say and this is
01:42:20 third sentence what you say and this is that you've reached the sixteenth floor now I was standing in the doorway between the stairs and the landing keeping the door open so you were able then presumably to look into the landing
01:42:32 then presumably to look into the landing area or the lobby area of the sixteenth floor yes I did open the door and I did hold it with my back because it's a
01:42:44 hold it with my back because it's a heavy door did you notice whether there were any lights on in the sixty no at the time the lobby was full of smoke so you can't see nothing can you describe what that
01:42:57 see nothing can you describe what that smoke was like black smoke very very black thick smoke and did that black thing smoke have any effect on you oh
01:43:10 thing smoke have any effect on you oh it's like I said to you earlier yes I just was you know I was holding my brief and coughing all the time and doing my best to use my energy as much as I can
01:43:25 best to use my energy as much as I can and and I stayed by the door what was this we I referred you to a bit of your statement earlier when you were could
01:43:36 statement earlier when you were could you describe coughing was it at this point that you started coughing up anything yes I did and what did you cough up I did speech something black
01:43:47 cough up I did speech something black and because there there was some more light on the stairs and I did realize some blood coming out from my mouth you
01:43:59 some blood coming out from my mouth you say that the lobby area was full of smoke taking the look measuring it from the floor to the ceiling how much of the area was full of smoke the area which
01:44:15 area was full of smoke the area which was full of smoke but I did realize when I just
01:44:19 I just you know I came down and this was about a centimeter or something like that it is the smoke was from the floor up to
01:44:32 is the smoke was from the floor up to this level so I just put myself down and start looking if there is someone coming oh sorry yeah yeah myself down and I
01:44:43 oh sorry yeah yeah myself down and I start looking if there is some body coming out from the from the from the neighbor so just so that I can understand it was was there less smoke
01:44:54 understand it was was there less smoke closer to the floor it was less more closer to the floor correct yes that's the world and so you crouch down to try and see if you could see anything that's correct
01:45:03 correct you've described the temperature in the stairwell as normal yes did you get any sense of what the temperature was like in the lobby area of the sixteenth floor at this time well because the lobby was
01:45:15 at this time well because the lobby was full of smoke so I'm not gonna be able to measure the temperature in the lobby so it's full of smoke if the smoke feel hot yes it is
01:45:27 hot yes it is did you have any sensation of heat on your face correct yes what you say is that you the first neighbor that you
01:45:39 that you the first neighbor that you encountered was your neighbor Eddie from flat 135 when did you first see him I
01:45:49 saw Eddie when I was when I was standing by the by the doll and I remember that very very much because maybe he can't
01:46:00 very very much because maybe he can't remember so we can't judge everyone due to what's going on in our mind but I do remember Eddie came out on blankets and he just walked through the stairs but
01:46:13 he just walked through the stairs but how near to the door was he before you saw him well I'm holding the door like this and he just passed me and then the door was holding by me and he just
01:46:25 door was holding by me and he just walked by the stairs
01:46:28 but that would have meant that he must have walked through the lobby to the to the door yes when you were via the smoke yes so how close was he before you
01:46:40 yes so how close was he before you actually saw him coming out of the lobby area
01:46:45 area well it looks me just came out from nowhere so did he just appear suddenly at the doorway but I still literally
01:46:56 at the doorway but I still literally visible you also described seeing another neighbor with his wife and
01:47:07 another neighbor with his wife and daughter mm-hmm how far behind Eddie were that couple with their daughter I can't tell you the time but I still was me I was standing by the door and the
01:47:20 me I was standing by the door and the lady with the with the daughter and mr. Richard he came out as well and I still the girl was still in still in my eyes
01:47:32 the girl was still in still in my eyes the girl she was coming with her mom and her father and I don't think they do remember me but I do remember them when he came out and just for the record is I
01:47:43 he came out and just for the record is I think you were here when he gave evidence that Richard Fletcher that's why I'm here
01:47:50 you also described seeing your neighbor Sam that was that the first time that you'd seen Sam that evening sorry can you repeat the question in in the
01:48:01 you repeat the question in in the paragraph if we look at it you say that you when he was coming out I saw my neighbor Sam he was standing in front of the doors of the door by the stairs covering his face so was that the first
01:48:15 covering his face so was that the first time that you saw Sam that evening yes I saw some standing because I've tried to get inside the even if it was very smoky
01:48:29 get inside the even if it was very smoky in the lobby I saw some standing right in front of the door by the stairs holding his hoody and then try to keep breathing and
01:48:42 hoody and then try to keep breathing and stand in half like this and I did ask him Sam who is your dad he said to me the word which is he said last time he
01:48:55 the word which is he said last time he said he's that he's frozen he can't walk so this word has been used by him so I said to me that is Rosen he can talk and he said to me with your mama says in my mom she's she's not there she's away and
01:49:08 mom she's she's not there she's away and just instantly some Iran by Oda stars let's pause there for a moment please so again did you was your first sight of
01:49:22 so again did you was your first sight of Sam when he appeared by the door where you were standing or you were crouching the Dorf took into the stairs from the lobby
01:49:40 maybe some come after the family and he stands by the door and then this person's he saw the same firefighter standing and well what's important to us
01:49:52 standing and well what's important to us Bobby is what you can remember so don't worry about well no no than anybody else can remember or cannot from them okay but I'm just taking you through your evidence I just want to ask I'm asking for your help as to just when you first
01:50:04 for your help as to just when you first saw Sam I saw first I saw something was standing in front of the stairs door and that's the door where you were dust correct now you've set out the
01:50:18 correct now you've set out the conversation that you had with Sam and he tells you my daddy's frozen and you said I said let's go get him his dad was an old man when I turned to look I could
01:50:30 an old man when I turned to look I could not see Sam I could not lift him by myself
01:50:34 myself I left him did you actually see Sam's father at all no if we look at paragraph 59 you say I held the door for them all
01:50:46 59 you say I held the door for them all to go down the stairs ahead of me just so that we can be clear do you remember that your neighbors all coming out together or in in groups in groups so
01:50:58 together or in in groups in groups so the first one was Eddie Rossum was early and Richard and his wife and their daughter and then some and did you again I appreciate this time is very tricky
01:51:10 I appreciate this time is very tricky but did you do have a sense of them all coming out within a very short space of time of each other or spaced out not much time it was really really short
01:51:21 much time it was really really short squeeze signed very short time between each other
01:51:26 can we look please at page 12 of the statement and expand from the top of the page to include the whole of paragraph 62 please
01:51:41 while you were standing by that door on the 16th floor do you recall seeing any firefighters at any time yes and what
01:51:53 firefighters at any time yes and what did you see same firefighter I did mention earlier I had that firefighter moved from his the place you'd seen him earlier while he
01:52:07 place you'd seen him earlier while he was still there but me when I'm gonna make the decision to leave I don't know if he's still there or not but did you see just so that we can became did you
01:52:18 see just so that we can became did you see a firefighter on the 16th floor or you mean in the lobby well either on the stairwell where you were there were yes and so a firefighter came up to the
01:52:30 and so a firefighter came up to the stairwell where you were that's correct yes and did it look like the same firefighters you've seen earlier yes were you aware of did you see whether that firefighter went into the
01:52:41 whether that firefighter went into the 16th floor lobby no is that no I didn't see or he did not go no I didn't see him go into the 60th floor will you aware of
01:52:52 go into the 60th floor will you aware of any other firefighters in the 16th floor lobby no what you then decided to do was to make your way down the stairs yes and
01:53:06 to make your way down the stairs yes and you explained that you used a towel to cover your face do you remember that when when you left it do you remember the door to the 16th floor from the
01:53:17 the door to the 16th floor from the stairwell to the 16th floor closing no [Music]
01:53:22 [Music] do you know what happened to that door no and just before you began going down from the 16th floor can you tell us what
01:53:33 from the 16th floor can you tell us what the conditions were like in the stairwell on the 16th floor at that time
01:53:50 I made a decision to cut you around as much as I can and from 16 floor to the 15 for meeting with difference
01:54:03 firefighter and people struggling to get in or to get out from their flats I just
01:54:15 in or to get out from their flats I just made a quick speed to roll right to the ground roll what you told us is that
01:54:27 ground roll what you told us is that when you went to back to the sixteenth floor you held that door open didn't you nice grainy describe what you've seen on the 16th floor landing by the time that
01:54:38 the 16th floor landing by the time that you left the 16th floor to go back down the stairs was there any smoke on the 16th floor in stairwell it's yes this is some smoking some pot not all the flaws well let's
01:54:49 some pot not all the flaws well let's take the 16th floor first was there any smoke coming from the 16th floor into the stairwell when I was holding the door on the 16th floor of course the
01:55:00 door on the 16th floor of course the smoke was coming out from the lobby so when I left maybe the door one shot so it will protect the smoke coming out of the stairs now as you began to make your
01:55:13 the stairs now as you began to make your way down to the ground floor did you notice if any other stairwell doors were open the 14th floor when I went back
01:55:25 open the 14th floor when I went back there it was shut I didn't see no one and that just made my way to the ground roll meeting with you know I made a decision I was not looking I wasn't
01:55:37 decision I was not looking I wasn't looking to his behind or in front of me I just was going on speeding as much as I can to get to the ground floor you've described that the firefighter you've
01:55:48 described that the firefighter you've identified as firefighter X came up to the 16th floor was firefighter X still on the 16th floor when you left I don't know do you remember what happened to
01:55:59 know do you remember what happened to firefighter X not at all as you started making your way down the stairs did you encounter firefighter X again in the stairwell no did you
01:56:10 again in the stairwell no did you encounter any other firefighters no what I want to do now mr. wah bees just show you some CCTV stills mm-hmm
01:56:23 just show you some CCTV stills mm-hmm and again mr. chairman I'll give the usual warning they are not in themselves distressing but they were taken on the night so others present or watching online may wish to look away or step out
01:56:35 online may wish to look away or step out the first one is an image that we've already seen today mr. wah beats inq five zeros 475 and it's just so that we
01:56:54 five zeros 475 and it's just so that we can orientate ourselves and what I'm going to do is give what we call adjusted time which is the time which is the best estimate that we're able to
01:57:05 the best estimate that we're able to give for the real time that the image was taken of for this image it's 138 and 45 hours again you've confirmed that
01:57:17 45 hours again you've confirmed that that's you there in the middle of the image and that's on the ground floor that's me yes remember what happened to the towel
01:57:26 the towel I got rid of it I have to leave it behind and did it just was that during
01:57:37 behind and did it just was that during the course of your descent down the stairwell probably I'd like now just to show you a sequence of further images sure and I want to do that I want to
01:57:50 sure and I want to do that I want to show you them all I'll give the times and that I'll do that before I ask you any questions so can we have IQ 5 zeros for seven six please
01:58:08 adjusted time for that image is 138 and 50 and that's you isn't it exiting through the main entrance that's me if you go jump on the trouser
01:58:19 that's me if you go jump on the trouser yes okay well let's look at three more images inq five zeros 477 adjusted time
01:58:33 images inq five zeros 477 adjusted time 138 and 52 iq500
01:58:47 adjusted time is 138 and 5130 I'm sorry I've got the time wrong for these I'll
01:58:59 I've got the time wrong for these I'll just fill the record for inq 476 the adjusted time is 138 and 14 for 477 is 138 and 16 and if I could just show mr.
01:59:11 138 and 16 and if I could just show mr. Bobby force for set for 78 the adjusted time is 138 and 19 the last image I want to show you mr. Abhi's inq five zeroes
01:59:24 to show you mr. Abhi's inq five zeroes 479 and he just had time for that is 138 and 21 if we could just put now I'm Q 4
01:59:35 and 21 if we could just put now I'm Q 4 7 7 a 9 q 4 7 8 next to each other please
01:59:48 so these are two of the images that we've just taken you through and you can see that you're in both images as well as two firefighters can you does it help
02:00:01 as two firefighters can you does it help you to tell us what was going on at this point as far as I know I think and
02:00:15 point as far as I know I think and Victor stands out I've told them that he's on the 16th floor he's a man there and a woman Sheila I don't know what's going on with
02:00:27 Sheila I don't know what's going on with the father he's some maybe they are busy with so just told them there is a man
02:00:38 with so just told them there is a man and woman 216 for all you need help so the man that you told them was on the 16th floor and needing help who was that man the man on the 16th floor are told
02:00:51 man the man on the 16th floor are told the alleppey is the Sam's father Joseph mr. Joseph and you and Sheila my neighbor Sheila the old lady as well
02:01:02 neighbor Sheila the old lady as well what passed away so you you told them that there was an elderly woman as well on the 16th floor is that right yes son and that was a reference to your
02:01:13 and that was a reference to your neighbor Sheila Sheila and mr. Joseph Sam's father had you seen Sheila at any time that all the time but had you seen her that evening no in your statement to
02:01:30 her that evening no in your statement to us you you don't mention this conversation can you just help us with what has brought back the memory of a conversation well it's nothing to talk
02:01:42 conversation well it's nothing to talk about that time you know as far as I can remember everything is gone and the tower so I'm just thinking about telling
02:01:54 tower so I'm just thinking about telling them there is some old people on the 16th floor
02:02:10 how confident are you that you had a conversation with these specific firefighters
02:02:23 well I trust myself and I'm very confident about what I was saying because I never had my mom that night they're so old people shouldn't be there
02:02:39 did the firefighters tell you what they would do with the information you'd given to them I don't think so you say I
02:02:50 given to them I don't think so you say I don't think so so is it possible that they did say something about what they would do no they were talking to each other about the never spoke to me back so I told them what's going on on the
02:03:04 so I told them what's going on on the 16th floor and who is in the 16th floor and I made my way I let them carry on with their duty and when you got out of the tower how are
02:03:15 when you got out of the tower how are you feeling physically when I got after the from that door tower door for the green fell there is no more feeling
02:03:32 green fell there is no more feeling denied I just took my way to the next to the Sports Center try to help as much as
02:03:43 the Sports Center try to help as much as I can and then move to some to Lancaster Road and I said they're looking and looking at the tower I I just thought
02:03:58 looking at the tower I I just thought the vitamin D gonna bring the fire to control but I just stand there looking at what's going on in a shock what you
02:04:10 at what's going on in a shock what you mentioned earlier when you when you would give clarifying your evidence about being on the 16th floor mmm was that was it was on your return 16th floor that you started coughing do you remember that were you still coughing
02:04:23 remember that were you still coughing when you left the tower I was coughing and it was a picture on the in the Metro mirror I mean on the Metro newspaper sorry
02:04:34 sorry it was taken but I was the first picture had been taken by some photographer I was coughing on it and her in the means
02:04:47 was coughing on it and her in the means I had been as much as I can
02:04:55 hmm mr. chairman I've reached the end of my questions but could I ask the usual breaks that they can check if there are others that I might need to ask well as well be as you heard at the moment mr.
02:05:07 well be as you heard at the moment mr. Rawat doesn't have any more questions but he needs time just to check that so we'll break now until midday I think we'll see whether any more questions at that thank you sir right thank you so
02:05:19 that thank you sir right thank you so much go with you sure thank you sir
02:05:34 like 12 o'clock
02:12:16 I suspect a couple more questions yes mr. Wahby there are a few more matters that I've been asked to cover with you so can I take them in probably
02:12:31 with you so can I take them in probably no particular order but we'll take them at the last point that we were looking at you remember I showed you some CCTV stills yeah is it right that you've been
02:12:43 stills yeah is it right that you've been able to watch some CCTV no problem no but have you have you watched it before you gave evidence yes and was that what prompted your recollection of having
02:12:54 prompted your recollection of having spoken to firefighters when you left the tower no really can I go please to page
02:13:07 tower no really can I go please to page 12 of your statement so I WS four zeros 1 1 5 7 12 and let's look at paragraph 61 please
02:13:25 if we look for lines down you say in that paragraph at some point I heard a voice shout it stay indoors stay indoors now taking it again in stages can you
02:13:36 now taking it again in stages can you remember if you heard that voice when you were running down the stairs to leave the tower when I was on the when I came out from the 16-foot ball and went
02:13:50 came out from the 16-foot ball and went to the 15 and the 14 that's what I've heard so that was on the first time you left the 16th floor that you heard that correct yeah when I left the no sorry
02:14:02 correct yeah when I left the no sorry Harlem when I came out from the 16th floor the 15th floor and then I saw the that'd be helping the lady so that's what I did her now you describe it as a
02:14:14 what I did her now you describe it as a voice shouting stay indoors stay indoors could you tell whether that voice was come coming from a floor above you or a floor below 14th floor it was coming
02:14:25 floor below 14th floor it was coming from the 14th floor mm-hmm and so was it coming from the lobby area of the 14th floor between the door and
02:14:36 of the 14th floor between the door and the lobby on the 14th floor I've heard of coming out from the 14th floor but I don't know where but I did catch it out words can you help us at
02:14:47 catch it out words can you help us at all with the nature of the voice was it a male voice or a female voice noise and mer voice and did it have a particular accent well how did you got to be very
02:14:58 accent well how did you got to be very English accents you told us in evidence that you left when you left your flat
02:15:09 that you left when you left your flat you left the door open the front door open yes I do why did you leave the front door open
02:15:27 I left my door open I left my door open for some reason because I want to the 15th floor to
02:15:38 because I want to the 15th floor to check what's going on and I never had that chance to think about the door at the time so the door was left open just worrying he might get close so I was
02:15:50 worrying he might get close so I was thinking I might go back and get my way get my equipments but unfortunately when I came back from the 1415 floor to the 16th floor couldn't make it so were you
02:16:03 16th floor couldn't make it so were you expecting to be able to go back into your 100% I was expecting to go back and get my equipment and my stuff as I said I was planning to trouble the following day you've given some specific evidence
02:16:21 day you've given some specific evidence about firefighters that you encountered and one of them you've identified as firefighter X can you remember if firefighter X was wearing any breathing apparatus no as it does that mean no he
02:16:35 apparatus no as it does that mean no he wasn't wearing no he wasn't wearing the masks to breathe I haven't seen him wearing it you also described seeing two firefighters helping a woman correct yes
02:16:49 firefighters helping a woman correct yes were they wearing any breathing apparatus yes
02:17:00 let's go please to page 11 of your statement look at paragraph 56 this is a
02:17:18 statement look at paragraph 56 this is a paragraph in which you are referring to firefighter X and what you say is he had a mask on but was struggling to breathe sitting on the stairs so what's the
02:17:29 sitting on the stairs so what's the difference between a mask and breathing apparatus in your mind well you heard he isn't as far as I can see he had his master his must suppose Naga on his mouth so he was giving us telling I
02:17:43 mouth so he was giving us telling I remember he was telling me something but I'll have to go to the 14th floor because his mask which is you know me put it in here he had it right down like this and he was sitting on the floor I
02:17:55 this and he was sitting on the floor I don't know maybe he's tired or so I don't know talk about so you could see a mask on him but it was all down yes and just below his chin that's that that's the only way who was talking to us um
02:18:10 the only way who was talking to us um the last question if I may if I take you back to page 5 of your statement please
02:18:30 and paragraphs 22 to 21 please you say in paragraph 220 we've looked at this before but it just it's referring to
02:18:42 before but it just it's referring to that you were not given any instructions or information about fire alarms and you also say you were not aware of any fire safety measures in the tower you had an elderly mother is that right
02:18:54 you had an elderly mother is that right yes sir were you given any information about what you you should do with your elderly mother Julie if you had to evacuate from the tower by who by anyone any individual or organization none at
02:19:09 any individual or organization none at all but I know how to deal with the situation with my mom as a carer in the mean time so you had a plan about what you would do with your library necessary I do have my qualification how to I mean
02:19:22 I do have my qualification how to I mean as a carer for my mother and how to operate and I do that test every year
02:19:31 thank you very much as well be just one last sir we've all now been able to look
02:19:42 last sir we've all now been able to look at your witness statement that you've given and you've been very patient in answering the questions that I put to you today so aside from the evidence that you've given in that witness davidon in your answer today is there
02:19:55 davidon in your answer today is there anything that you saw or heard on that night that you would like to draw to the attention of the Chairman I think mr.
02:20:09 attention of the Chairman I think mr. chairman is a Worf what's going on and with just normal people we just want to get off it all and get back to normal
02:20:22 get off it all and get back to normal we don't want I'm not gonna see balloons nothing which is you know I'm not gonna carry you talking so much because I've never I've never been to a court before in my whole life okay this is the first
02:20:35 in my whole life okay this is the first time since I came to England to improve my life I'm just gonna talk about myself so please let me just explain to the gentlemen here I never been took a court
02:20:46 gentlemen here I never been took a court in my whole history number one number two and never be I never stopped working now I'm not working for a lot of sense the 14th of June 17 what we are asking with just an a work in community where
02:20:59 with just an a work in community where our normal people are the you know everyone want to get on with his life in a proper way and we hope that you got
02:21:11 a proper way and we hope that you got the message from not just from me I've got a mom who is 90 and she's waiting to be sorted out by advocacy and then get on with her with the rest of her life as
02:21:23 on with her with the rest of her life as well and my mom she's 90 years old thank you very much thank you thank you very much mr. Robin for coming and giving evidence today I just like to say how
02:21:36 evidence today I just like to say how grateful we are to you for coming on to current tell us about what was obviously a very frightening and terrible experience it's really useful to us to hear about what you experienced at
02:21:47 hear about what you experienced at different points in the evening because it'll help us to piece together the story and I hope it hasn't been too difficult for you to do it and we're very grateful indeed thank you very much sir for your time thank you thanks a lot
02:22:05 [Music]
02:22:10 yes mr. Allen mr. chairman at this point I have a number of statements which I would like to put formally into the
02:22:22 would like to put formally into the record yes and if I can explain first that well I will be reading extracts from some of these statements today I sure it is useful to point out again
02:22:33 sure it is useful to point out again that the entirety of each statement is placed into the inquiries record of evidence and the entirety of the statement is considered info as evidence before this inquiry thank you hm the
02:22:46 before this inquiry thank you hm the first statement to be placed into the record is that of Walid Wahby who is the son of mr. Hamid Wahby from whom you've
02:22:57 son of mr. Hamid Wahby from whom you've just heard the reference is iaws five zeros 1 1 3 and if we go to page 10 of
02:23:13 zeros 1 1 3 and if we go to page 10 of that statement we can see that it is signed with the statement of truth and dated the 15th of May 2018 yes there are two exhibits to be placed into the record with
02:23:25 to be placed into the record with references for which are iws five zeroes 1 1 1 and iws 5 zeroes 1 1 6 if I begin with a small summary Walid Hamid wasn't
02:23:44 with a small summary Walid Hamid wasn't home that evening but he does describe receiving a lot of messages indicating that he had mix missed calls and if I take you mr. chair of the statement of
02:23:55 take you mr. chair of the statement of paragraph 33
02:24:11 this part of the stems headed 14th of June 2017 and paragraph 33 begins as follows my mum called and said have you
02:24:22 follows my mum called and said have you seen what will happen to your house I asked what was going on and she said it is burning I hung up and then received a snapchat I clicked on one of the snapchats of someone that lived in area
02:24:33 snapchats of someone that lived in area and I saw the tower burning I saw red flames in the video I put on my jacket I put on my jacket and I'm on and I left on my moped as soon as possible leaving
02:24:44 on my moped as soon as possible leaving most things behind I left around 12:45 to 1 a.m. when the fire was at the early stages continues I wanted to get there as soon as possible it took me 15 to 20
02:24:57 as soon as possible it took me 15 to 20 minutes to get there it was one road I started seeing the smoke and fire from Shepherds Bush and smelling it it smelled like burning plastic I could see the smoke and a bit of red orange light
02:25:08 the smoke and a bit of red orange light from the fire from the distance I was driving up Latimer Road I heard fire engines police and people it was like a movie if I move on mr. chairman to
02:25:19 movie if I move on mr. chairman to paragraph 36 I was on Lancaster Road and in front of me I could see the fire on the left-hand side of the tower building it looks scary it looked like it was eating up the
02:25:30 it looked like it was eating up the building it was getting bigger and bigger by the second there was black and gray smoke and the fire was red yellow and orange colour and very dark black smoke everywhere there were particles
02:25:42 smoke everywhere there were particles floating black bits the particles were big and small I could hear people crying I did not want to look up at the tower if I did I started crying I could hear
02:25:53 if I did I started crying I could hear people screaming and crying I saw a lady dropped to the floor and cry she was crying so much I got a call about 25 to 30 minutes after I got there from a
02:26:04 30 minutes after I got there from a local neighbor from the area to say he was with my dad he said my dad was safe I found him 10 minutes later he looks stress
02:26:15 10 minutes later he looks stress
02:26:15 he was screaming in our language Moroccan Arabic saying everything is gone everything is gone we start from zero we have to start all over again this is all I have got he was pointing
02:26:26 this is all I have got he was pointing to his clothes he had no shoes on and I move on to paragraph 39 I saw people flashing their phones from inside the building there were some people from inside that were waving
02:26:37 people from inside that were waving towels they were also putting lights off and on he got worse during the night every five minutes or more there was an explosion every time there was a loud explosion everyone would scream the
02:26:49 explosion everyone would scream the explosions were frequent until they ran out it was like boilers blowing up the explosions lasted the whole night they kept going up the building as the fire was going up a big hole flame was coming
02:27:02 was going up a big hole flame was coming out from the building I could see the explosion then the fire and then black dark smoke which looked like mushroom clouds coming off the building I could smell burning plastic
02:27:13 I could smell burning plastic the fire was a light red and the smoke was gray and black there's smoke everywhere fire started off small and spread quickly within space of an hour or two it covered about
02:27:24 space of an hour or two it covered about 40 to 50 percent of the building the fire was going up and around it was going bigger and bigger it was going quite fast it's jam if I now go just to paragraph 48 of the same statement which
02:27:41 paragraph 48 of the same statement which is on page 7 and statement I arrived at the scene before the area was cordoned off so I was quite close to the tower on Lancaster Road the area was cordoned off
02:27:53 Lancaster Road the area was cordoned off slowly by the police they started pushing people up Lancaster Road smoke went into my eyes I inhaled the smoke I was coughing badly at one point on Grenville Road it was only when I had
02:28:04 Grenville Road it was only when I had fresh air that I could feel house all my eyes were it was stinging and burning when I got to the road where there was fresh air it was hurting more I wanted to itch it this went on for a couple of weeks me and my friends were
02:28:17 couple of weeks me and my friends were on the phone to my friend yes Annelle Wahhabi he lived on the 21st floor with his family he said he was told to stay put by the fire brigade he said they told us to stay in they
02:28:28 he said they told us to stay in they told us to stay in I said say your prayers someone will come for you at the time other people were trying to call him he said I will call you back let me call you back I need to answer this call he died in a
02:28:41 I need to answer this call he died in a fire along with his family mr. chairman that's all I propose to read from that statement but if I may now move to some other statements you will recall that on
02:28:52 other statements you will recall that on the 18th of October you heard evidence from flora and fauna death and they lost Flora's husband and four herds father Saba Neda in the fire
02:29:03 four herds father Saba Neda in the fire what I would now propose to do is to put into the record the statement of four relatives of the Neda family and they are first of all habib ur-rahman Abdul
02:29:15 are first of all habib ur-rahman Abdul Rahman and the reference for the statement is iws four zeros or five zeros eight eight three if we go to page
02:29:27 zeros eight eight three if we go to page four please
02:29:36 perhaps the page three might be the page to do it yes it has a statement of truth and is signed and dated the 21st of May
02:29:48 and is signed and dated the 21st of May 2018 there are no exhibits accompanying this statement the next statement is that of flora Zara side which is at I WS
02:29:59 that of flora Zara side which is at I WS five zero eight eight eight again if we could go to the last page of that statement page four statement is signed
02:30:11 statement page four statement is signed and with a statement of truth date of the 21st of May 2018 and there are no exhibits accompanying it the next
02:30:22 exhibits accompanying it the next statement is that of Robbie Abdul Rahman if I explained that flora Zara was the
02:30:33 if I explained that flora Zara was the husband is the wife of Habib Habib Rama Abdul Rahman and their son is Rabi Abdul Rahman and his statement to the inquiry is found at iws five zeros 881 it's a
02:30:50 is found at iws five zeros 881 it's a three page statement and if we go to the last page please you see that it's dated the 20th of May and signed with a statement of truth there are no exhibits
02:31:02 statement of truth there are no exhibits to be put into the record the last statement of this set of statements to be put in at this stage is that of loss
02:31:14 be put in at this stage is that of loss Rahman Habib Rahman Abdul Rahman he's rubs brother and so also a nephew of flora and silver Neda he has made two statements to the inquiry the first is
02:31:25 statements to the inquiry the first is at iws five zeros eight 8/2 we go to the last page of that please
02:31:36 it shows that it's signed on the same inter truth on the 21st of May 2018 and there are no accompanying exhibits the second statement is a supplementary
02:31:48 second statement is a supplementary statement at I WS 4 zeros 1 1 3 2 if we go to the second page of that statement
02:32:00 see that it is signed again with a statement of truth and dated the 15th of October 2018 mr. chairman I don't
02:32:12 October 2018 mr. chairman I don't propose to read from all four of these statements taken individually and together they show the close bonds between the two families and the regarded that they had for sever neder I
02:32:24 regarded that they had for sever neder I will however read from happy Rahman Abdul Rahman statement and if I could have please I WS 5 zeroes 883
02:32:50 in paragraph two mr. Abdul Rahman says I've known sober since the early 90s in Afghanistan
02:33:02 Afghanistan I married Flores a Azara seed in the early 90s around the same time that Sabah married my wife's sister we've therefore been a very close family from that time and if we go please to
02:33:14 that time and if we go please to paragraph six on the next page mr. Abdul Rahman explains on the evening before the fire we spent the night together as
02:33:27 the fire we spent the night together as two families and if I pick it up a paragraph nine but paragraph eight forgive me he's continues in fact I'm
02:33:41 forgive me he's continues in fact I'm sorry I'll start that again I'll start from paragraph six on the evening before the fire we spent the night together as two families as always it was an evening full of fun and laughter and smiles supper and his family left after
02:33:54 supper and his family left after midnight and I was in bed when I got a call from Farhad saying that there was a fire in the tower he said that there was stuck on the top floor after I put down the call I called my son masih full name
02:34:06 the call I called my son masih full name Laura man Habib Rahman Abdul Rahman who was at work and I asked him to leave his job in Paddington to go and see if there was need for us to travel from Hounslow into Ladbroke Grove my wife overheard
02:34:18 into Ladbroke Grove my wife overheard the telephone conversation and knew that there was something wrong she said let's immediately leave and go to the tower so we woke my other son Robbie and asked him to check the internet to see what
02:34:29 him to check the internet to see what was being reported at the same time Massey called once more once he arrived at the tower and tried to calm his mother by saying that everything was okay he then spoke to me and said dad
02:34:40 okay he then spoke to me and said dad you must come immediately we therefore immediately left our home and in the rush I left my mobile phone on the kitchen table we enter the tower we got as far as grenfell Road and was stopped
02:34:52 as far as grenfell Road and was stopped at a barrier by police and going no further we spent the evening praying and hoping that everybody would be ok and my son Massey was able to get in over the barrier
02:35:02 barrier eventually came back to tell us that my wife sister flora was alive and Farhad was alive and in the recovery tent we believe therefore that Sabah must have got out and we had high hopes if I draw
02:35:14 got out and we had high hopes if I draw now just go to paragraph 12 of the statement please on the same page stabbed or um man says when I returned
02:35:25 stabbed or um man says when I returned home after the fire I found my phone on our dining table on my phone was the last measures that subber left before he died where he said goodbye I'm leaving
02:35:36 died where he said goodbye I'm leaving this world goodbye I hope you won't be in pain goodbye everyone his voice was calm and he clearly did not show any fear if I could now read
02:35:50 not show any fear if I could now read from the statement of love from an habib ur-rahman Abdul Rahman which is at iws five zeroes eight 8/2
02:36:09 thank you um
02:36:15 if I start at paragraph three please but approximately one o'clock in the morning whilst on my night shift at the hotel in Paddington I received a call from my father he told me that he'd received a
02:36:28 father he told me that he'd received a call from Farhad my cousin saying that there was a fire in the Tower of Granville he asked me to go to grande fell immediately to see how dangerous the situation was I would estimate that I got there approximately 1 1:05 a.m. to
02:36:42 I got there approximately 1 1:05 a.m. to 1 10 a.m. as it was only around the corner from where I work and when I arrived there were already some firefighters and policemen at the site there were also relatives of people from
02:36:54 there were also relatives of people from the flats standing watching if we could now go to paragraph 7 place on the next page
02:37:08 not from and says during this period of time I kept my line available to subber and Farhad who called me a couple of times asking about the situation and asking me what the situation was on the
02:37:19 asking me what the situation was on the outside they were asking why there wasn't any help coming up to the top floor they said that when they had called the fire brigade earlier they were told to stay inside the apartment
02:37:30 were told to stay inside the apartment they they fought there therefore did as they were told I would estimate that I first asked the police what my family should do around 1:10 a.m. they told me
02:37:41 should do around 1:10 a.m. they told me that according to the fire brigade the best thing they could do was to move away from the doors and to try and cover the gaps on the doors with wet towels I passed this message on to my family if I
02:37:52 passed this message on to my family if I go on to paragraph 12 of the statement Rahman says there at 2:37 a.m. I
02:38:04 Rahman says there at 2:37 a.m. I received the last phone call from my uncle Sabah he was again asking me what was going on he was asking why there was nobody there to help them I could also hear two terrified female
02:38:16 I could also hear two terrified female voices begging for help in the background he told me that I should be honest with him and he asked the following question is there anybody going to help us within a minute as the fire has already reached inside of the
02:38:28 fire has already reached inside of the apartment during that question I was standing beside a policeman and a firefighter I asked them the same question but neither one could answer me Sabo was still on the phone and it
02:38:40 Sabo was still on the phone and it wasn't then it was clear they had no solution to the problem he then said Massey if they and he meant the fire brigade and policemen would not come to rescue me and the people in the flat in
02:38:52 rescue me and the people in the flat in the next minute then you should not be surprised if we are dead after this sentence said they put the phone down but down the phone and that was the last I heard from him if I finish with
02:39:05 I heard from him if I finish with paragraph 13 of this statement I called him continuously after this time and his phone just kept ringing
02:39:14 this gem for the record I should explain that in his supplementary statement laughs Ramon Habib Ramon and Doraemon gives a time for the call from southern editor his Habib Ramon and that time is
02:39:27 editor his Habib Ramon and that time is given as 2:40 a.m. the next statement I would put into the record is that of nesrin
02:39:37 nesrin Sadat and the reference for that is at I WS five zeros 885 if we go to page 7
02:39:49 WS five zeros 885 if we go to page 7 please for statement you can see that it's dated the 21st of May and signed with a statement of truth there are no exhibits accompanying the statement in
02:40:03 exhibits accompanying the statement in summary mr. Dayton her statement explains that she's the fiance of Farhad Neda she was abroad on the 13th of June 2017 and she woke early the following
02:40:14 2017 and she woke early the following morning to messages from Farhad and if we go perhaps to the first page of the statement we can see where those men where she describes those messages if I summarize she will woke early the
02:40:25 summarize she will woke early the following morning two messages from Farhad saying that he was saying goodbye not asking for forgiveness he didn't ever done anything bad towards me and telling me he always loved me this was
02:40:37 telling me he always loved me this was followed by further messages from Farhad confirming that he and his mother had made it out of the tower but they didn't know where his father was mr. dad immediately left for the airport and she
02:40:48 immediately left for the airport and she spent the rest of the summer in the UK supporting the Neda family can I now put into the record the statement of Mohammad RF Meador who's the brother of
02:40:59 Mohammad RF Meador who's the brother of severe Neda
02:41:03 that statement is at iaws five zeros eight eight zero if we go please to page
02:41:14 eight eight zero if we go please to page three of the statement the statement is signed with a statement of truth and
02:41:26 signed with a statement of truth and dated the 21st of May 2018 there are no exhibits accompanying it and if we could perhaps go to the second page of the statement
02:41:43 but again if I could to summarize the statement for the record Muhammad Neda is the brother as I've explained of southern ADA and in his statement he describes southern not only as a brother but as his best friend he
02:41:55 as a brother but as his best friend he explains that he was woken around 3:15 a.m. on the 14th of June when his daughter called his wife's phone his daughter had received a call from Farhad to say our flat is on fire I can't find
02:42:06 to say our flat is on fire I can't find my dad
02:42:08 my dad Muhammad his wife and son-in-law drove to Grenfell Tower they found Farhad and flora in hospital and then began to help in the search for supper if we look at paragraph 5 in the
02:42:21 supper if we look at paragraph 5 in the statement Mohammad RF says this about his nephew I see my brother in Farhad and this gave me an immense amount of comfort and calm in what was a horrific situation to be in
02:42:33 situation to be in sadly the search for supper ended in his being confirmed as a victim of the fire in paragraph 6 Muhammad says this about his brother my best friend my brother my
02:42:44 his brother my best friend my brother my role model taken away from me in such a way that has left a great big hole in my heart a void that can never be filled
02:42:56 it's gem the next statement put into the record with that of Mohammed Amin Popeil which is at iws five zeroes 884 again if
02:43:12 which is at iws five zeroes 884 again if we could go to the last page please
02:43:19 it's dated the 21st of May and signed with a statement of truth Muhammad I mean Popeil is a cousin of Fahad Neda yes I lived one Road away from
02:43:32 yes I lived one Road away from Grandville tower he was woken in the early hours of 14th of June 2017 our commotion outside he looked out and saw the tower on fire and he then got
02:43:43 the tower on fire and he then got dressed and ran towards the tower if I begin with the first page of the statement
02:44:00 when I start with paragraph six on seeing how serious the fire was I called for hurt and told him because your block is on fire you need to leave he replied
02:44:11 is on fire you need to leave he replied by saying that he had already spoken to the fireman and that they'd been told to stay in their flat as I was able to see how serious the fire was I remember questioning that advice and so I kept asking the policeman beside me on the
02:44:23 asking the policeman beside me on the road what of the fireman doing and what floor have they got to the policeman said that the fire brigade was dealing with a fire the best that they could given that the fire was spreading so fast I kept asking the police officers
02:44:36 fast I kept asking the police officers present what was the best thing for my cousin his family to do and they told me that they were advised to tell them to stay in their flat whilst the fire was being dealt with if I move now mr. Ciampa paragraph 10 of the statement mr.
02:44:50 Ciampa paragraph 10 of the statement mr. Popple explains I received a call from fahad at 2:00 a.m. when he told me my flat is getting hot and some of my neighbors have come into our flat the smoke is starting to get to us what
02:45:01 smoke is starting to get to us what should we do I again asked an officer for an answer to this question was for HUD was on the phone and he said anyone on the 11th floor above is advised to make their own escape the firefighters will not be able
02:45:13 escape the firefighters will not be able to get to them I relayed that message to her heard and told my cousin you need to get out right now if you don't leave your flat you are going to die that was a very hard and difficult conversation to have with a
02:45:25 difficult conversation to have with a cousin whom I had grown up with and whom I loved for hydrilla replied ok and put the phone down I never heard another thing from fahad until 40 minutes have passed and he
02:45:37 until 40 minutes have passed and he thankfully phoned me to tell me he and his mum had escaped and had got out of the tower you will never know the sense of relief that I felt however in the same conversation he told me that he had
02:45:48 same conversation he told me that he had lost his dad and didn't know where he was shown that's all I proposed to read from that statement but what I would like to do now is to put into the record the statement of three tower residents
02:46:01 the statement of three tower residents who lived in flat age on the third floor none of them were at home on the night of the fire the first statement is that of SIA Nash Bundy
02:46:12 of SIA Nash Bundy reference please iws five zeros three to seven
02:46:26 if we go to the last page please page four you can see that it's dated the 21st of May 2018 and signed with a
02:46:39 21st of May 2018 and signed with a statement of truth if I take us back please to the first page I'll just read the introductory paragraph
02:46:51 the introductory paragraph I'm the above-named person and I lived at flat 8 on the third floor at Granville Tower with my parents brothers Massey Ravi and Rashad and sisters sadef and Samira can I now ask that we move
02:47:03 and Samira can I now ask that we move forward in the statement to paragraph page 2 and pick it up from paragraph 6 please in the early hours of 14th June I
02:47:17 please in the early hours of 14th June I think it was around 12:30 a.m. I decided to stop working as I had an extremely bad headache My partner kirat had told me earlier that she would be dropping our daughter off Granville Tower I drove home and
02:47:29 off Granville Tower I drove home and parked up near the tower when I noticed a small fire in the tower I was standing near the tower with two or three people and some firefighters I tried to run towards the tower to get in
02:47:40 tried to run towards the tower to get in as I was worried that one of my brothers was inside but I was stopped or her firefighter I called my brother a shot a lot of times before he answered the phone I told him to get out of the flat
02:47:51 phone I told him to get out of the flat as there was a fire but Russia didn't think there was a problem as he did not hear any fire alarms I shouted at him to get out of Russia told me that he'd not hear a fire alarm I demanded that he get
02:48:02 hear a fire alarm I demanded that he get out now as I could see the fire spreading and he said he would come down I then called Shakib who was a relative living on the 23rd floor I told you to come out now as there was a fire he told
02:48:14 come out now as there was a fire he told me that the fire brigade had already come up to their flat and told them that everything was under control and they should stay indoors I just told him again to get everyone out of the flat and come downstairs I think it was
02:48:25 and come downstairs I think it was approximately two hours later that she kept calling me again he was crying and screaming and asking for help I asked him why he was still inside then he just repeated that the fire brigade had told
02:48:36 repeated that the fire brigade had told him to stay indoors he started begging for help so I ran to a police officer to ask for help but he just told me that everything was under control I tried to tell him that my friend had told me that everyone the
02:48:47 friend had told me that everyone the 23rd floor had moved in she keeps flat I also tried to get help from the fire brigade but I was told that there was a unit on its way to help them I didn't believe what they were saying
02:48:58 believe what they were saying I called Shakib again and by now he was screaming that the fire was in the flat and before he could say anything else I lost the connection the phone went off I think it was about 20 minutes later that
02:49:10 think it was about 20 minutes later that I received another call from Chuckie and he confirmed that he'd managed to get out with his mother and they were standing near the pharmacy he's very upset and crying and asked me to look out for his father who'd separated from
02:49:21 out for his father who'd separated from them I oppose us won't read any further from this statement mr. chairman but just to be clear that the reference to shirk he was a reference to Farhad later the next statement to be put into the
02:49:34 the next statement to be put into the record is that of Majda habib at iws five zeroes nine one seven nine page
02:49:46 five zeroes nine one seven nine page statement if we go to page nine please
02:49:50 see that it's signed and dated signed dated the 22nd of June 2018 and signed with a statement of truth there is one exhibit to be put into the record which
02:50:02 exhibit to be put into the record which is labeled MH 1 and the reference for that is IW s five zeros seven seven five zero and to explain if we go back to
02:50:14 zero and to explain if we go back to page two please of the statement and start a paragraph six
02:50:26 miss Habib was the partner of a brother of Shia a seer nasha bandi who called Massey Nash Mundy and she was living in flat 8 at the time before I start
02:50:40 flat 8 at the time before I start reading from paragraph 6 I had relatives that lived in the top drawer of Graham fall tower the Neda family flora Ned as my uncle's wife sister I knew him was close with all of that family saba flora
02:50:53 close with all of that family saba flora and their son Farhad Farhad and his father were very close indeed they were best friends almost inseparable I was relatively close to their family so much so that their flat was the first place I
02:51:05 so that their flat was the first place I visited after I gave birth to my son for me Graham felt how I felt like a safe and happy place if I move on to miss her beeps account of the events of the night
02:51:18 beeps account of the events of the night itself and start with paragraph 8 I was not in Grantville tau in the morning of the five 14th June 2017 there is a celebration for a new child whenever the
02:51:30 celebration for a new child whenever the child turns twenty days old and this celebration is an opportunity for the mother to get out of the house and to see family members as a result my sister had invited me and my son to her house
02:51:41 had invited me and my son to her house in Ruislip if I move on to paragraph ten I was still awake sitting around and chatting at my sister's house in Ruislip until the early hours of the morning on 14th June 2017 at approximately 1:15
02:51:55 14th June 2017 at approximately 1:15 a.m. I saw a snapchat video posted by Massey's brother SIA it was video of Granville tower from the outside the building was clearly on fire it was only a small bit of the building
02:52:07 it was only a small bit of the building that seemed to be on fire at that time although I cannot recall exactly how much I remember becoming very concerned about SIA and worried about our home I told Massey and the other people that were with me at the time that there was
02:52:18 were with me at the time that there was a fire at Granville tower and they were worried very worried - - I now understand that the fire started at 12:54 a.m. on the 4th floor which is the floor above our flat SIA was not in the
02:52:30 floor above our flat SIA was not in the tower at that time and he'd arrived home to the tower when he saw emergency services there and fire on the building he did not go inside rainfall however Massey's other brother Rashad was in the tower at the time the fire
02:52:42 was in the tower at the time the fire started and he managed to get out shortly after the fire started but I do not know what time he exited the building Massey called SIA almost
02:52:53 building Massey called SIA almost immediately after I had told him of seer snapchat video highlighting a fire at Granville tower at the time of the core which I do not remember see I told him that he could not find Rashad after the telephone call with his
02:53:05 Rashad after the telephone call with his brother Massey left Ruislip immediately he went to Grenville's how as quickly as he could I tried to call flora Neda on the 23rd floor but she did not pick up her telephone I called Farhad her son
02:53:17 her telephone I called Farhad her son and he did pick up the telephone and I spoke to him very briefly I cannot be sure what time this was but he said that he knew about the fire in the tower if I had also told me that the family had arrived home less than an hour before I
02:53:28 arrived home less than an hour before I spoke to him I now understand that tragically they went up to their top floor flat just moments after the fire started if I had told me that they were upstairs in their flat have been up
02:53:40 upstairs in their flat have been up there I was aware of how high up their flat was I could hear floor in the background she sounded very scared she was not screaming but she was speaking in a panicked voice she is a quiet
02:53:51 in a panicked voice she is a quiet person generally so I could tell that she was scared he cut off very shortly after saying something along the lines of I have to go I became a go-between for communications between seer who was
02:54:03 communications between seer who was outside of the building and Farhad who was inside his flat on the top floor I had told seer to tell the firefighters and had the other emergency services that farhad Neda and his family were trapped on the top floor of the tower CI
02:54:16 trapped on the top floor of the tower CI told me he was asking any emergency services what for HUD should do I cannot recall who gave the advice but I remember the CEO told me he was informed that people should stay put in their flats I cannot recall when that advice
02:54:29 flats I cannot recall when that advice was given as I was sending Farhad whatsapp messages throughout the night and I was also on the telephone with him the advice that CEO received that I related to Farhad was certainly given before the whatsapp messages that are
02:54:41 before the whatsapp messages that are exhibited she also sent me videos of the outside of the building when it was on fire and I could see that the fire was on the other side of the building for verification of farhad's flag
02:54:52 verification of farhad's flag farhad sent me whatsapp messages shortly before and shortly after 2:00 a.m. those messages were very disturbing I exhibit screenshots of those messages to this
02:55:03 screenshots of those messages to this statement his messages hit home for me and as it as if I did not know it before I began to realize the gravity of the situation the danger for everybody left remaining in the tower it was terrifying
02:55:16 remaining in the tower it was terrifying even for me I was not in the tower at the time that's all I proposed to read from that statement but the next name to be put into the record is that of Massey
02:55:28 be put into the record is that of Massey Nash Mandy reference I WS five zeros three three four who go to the last page page four please the statement is dated
02:55:42 page four please the statement is dated the 21st of May 2018 and signed with a statement of truth there are no exhibits to accompany it I propose to read three paragraphs from the statement and which
02:55:53 paragraphs from the statement and which are on page two of the statement please
02:56:01 paragraph 11 down to 13 on the night 13th of June 2017 I was with my partner Majda and baby son at her sister's home my brother Cyr
02:56:13 at her sister's home my brother Cyr called Majda and told him she'd be her that there was a fire at grandpa's house his call ended but NCR called us back and told us to go Shakib who was a relative of Mazdas who lived on the 23rd
02:56:25 relative of Mazdas who lived on the 23rd floor however I tried to call my brother Rashad then we call Shakib and told him to get out of the flat I then called my brother seer again to give him she keeps number so he could call him I left just
02:56:37 number so he could call him I left just after 1:30 a.m. to make my way to grim full tower a friend drove me and I remembered on the journey that had forgotten my mobile phone when we were near to Grenville tower notice that all
02:56:48 near to Grenville tower notice that all of the streets were closed off so I had to get out of the car and make the rest of the way on foot by the time I arrived my brother Richard and managed to get out and that's all I proposed to read
02:57:00 out and that's all I proposed to read from that statement
02:57:03 mr. chairman on the 18th of October mr. Minnick read into the record the statement of ahmad Elgar woori and you will remember his mother and sister
02:57:14 will remember his mother and sister lived in flat 196 on the 22nd floor and also died in the fire what I supposed to do now is to put into
02:57:25 what I supposed to do now is to put into the record the statement of Alma's wife Farzana o el kawari but the reference for that is iws five zeros nine nine
02:57:36 for that is iws five zeros nine nine five please yes if we go to the last page the statement is dated the 25th of
02:57:50 page the statement is dated the 25th of July 2018 and it's signed with a statement of truth in the statement Hasan explains that she and her husband had spent the evening 13th of June with
02:58:01 had spent the evening 13th of June with Miriam Miriam left their home at about 9:30 p.m. that evening and with that introduction what I would propose to do is take you mr. chairman to page 2 on
02:58:15 is take you mr. chairman to page 2 on this statement and take it from paragraph 10 please Ahmed and I stayed up watching TV in the living room just
02:58:26 up watching TV in the living room just before midnight and then went to bed around 1:30 a.m. to 1:35 a.m. I woke up Tommen's phone ringing I assumed it was the alarm and it was already time for Ahmed to get up for work I kept hearing
02:58:39 Ahmed to get up for work I kept hearing the phone ring but Ahmed was not waking up so I looked at my phone to check the time and saw I had a missed call from Miriam I immediately started to worry so I nudged on it to wake him up and told him that Miriam had called my phone and
02:58:51 him that Miriam had called my phone and that I think she was also trying to call him he got out of bed and looked at his phone he looked shocked he read out a message from Miriam saying Ahmed please
02:59:02 message from Miriam saying Ahmed please pick up there's a fire I didn't know what was going on but I started to feel really panicked he rang her as soon as he read it out I don't remember what was
02:59:13 he read it out I don't remember what was said as it such a brief conversation but I remember he told her to get out and that he was on his way when he got off the phone he told me that there was a fire in the block and that they were inside whilst
02:59:25 block and that they were inside whilst he was quickly getting ready I remember that he looked at me and said I feel sick it was clear that he had a bad feeling about the fire which made me feel even more panicked I thought it must have been quite bad because he's
02:59:36 must have been quite bad because he's not the type of person to feel that way very easily a few minutes later arm had got a call on his mobile from his friend Muhammad Rasul Muhammad lived in the town with his wife manera and their children Muhammad said something along
02:59:49 children Muhammad said something along the lines of I don't know if you know but the block is on fire and I think your mum and sister is still inside because I can't see them outside I'm except that he had already had the phone call that he was in on his way to
03:00:00 phone call that he was in on his way to the tower
03:00:01 the tower Muhammad explained that he and his family had got out safely and the court ended it was a very short phone call when Ahmed left our house I immediately called Mariam according to my phone
03:00:12 called Mariam according to my phone records this was at 1:56 a.m. she picked up and I just asked her what was going on I told her that armored had told me that there was a fire in the block she told me that the flat was on
03:00:23 block she told me that the flat was on fire that everything had gone she sounded really distressed I think she was crying I didn't get the impression that she was too worried about her well-being at this point and fearful of her life because she was referring to
03:00:34 her life because she was referring to the loss of her possessions rather than mentioning anything about her personal safety I was so worried that I didn't want to panic her more I just said don't worry about what you've lost at least
03:00:45 worry about what you've lost at least you are safe I asked this Esther was safe and Miriam responded to say she's right next to me but she's freaking out I felt hopeless I knew that her mother will be panicking and it upset me so
03:00:57 will be panicking and it upset me so much knowing they were in danger Miriam was coughing a lot so I told her to get a damp towel and put it over their faces she said that she was already doing that I could also hear others in the
03:01:08 I could also hear others in the background coughing but I'm not sure who they were
03:01:11 they were I asked Miriam where she was she told me that she was in someone's flat and that they tried to go downstairs but as they did people were coming back up telling them to go back upstairs and to stay
03:01:22 them to go back upstairs and to stay inside I don't know what people she was referring to but I assume it was other residents who lived in the tower she also told me that they tried to go to the roof that it was locked and that they were let into someone's else's flat
03:01:35 they were let into someone's else's flat on the top floor I told her that armoured had left the house and that he would be there very soon I told her that Hamid will call her as soon as he gets there or even on the way to the tower as
03:01:46 there or even on the way to the tower as I could hear Maryam coughing more and more I was really concerned that I was preventing her from having the towel over her mouth I remember saying I'm not sure if you should be talking now as you should just be holding the towel over
03:01:58 should just be holding the towel over your face I didn't want to keep her on the phone for too long because of this reason so I said I would go I said I love you she responded saying I love you too
03:02:08 too and that was it I didn't speak to her again after that phone call I never imagined this would be my last conversation with her Gemini that's all I propose to read from that statement but finally I will deal with
03:02:21 statement but finally I will deal with two witness statements from residents of burned and walk mr. and mrs. else are we and they had been close friends of the alga whare formally for many years the first
03:02:32 formally for many years the first statement is that of Karima else are we and that is at iws five zeroes four to four we go to the last page please the
03:02:47 four we go to the last page please the statement is dated the 20th of May 2018 it is signed with a statement of truth and there are no accompanying exhibits the second statement kept put in now is
03:02:58 the second statement kept put in now is that of Zakariya Kemal else are we and that statement is at iws five zeroes four to seven again if we go to the last
03:03:13 four to seven again if we go to the last page please than that is page seven
03:03:23 statement is signed it's accompanied with a statement of truth data the 20th of May and there is also an accompanying statement that explains that the content
03:03:36 statement that explains that the content of the statement at home and the declaration of truth has been read out and explained to mr. LaSalle we were if
03:03:48 and explained to mr. LaSalle we were if I take these two statements together but an explained by way of summary the Karima else are we and her husband zacchara had lived in bound and walk on the lancaster west estate since 1982 and
03:04:01 the lancaster west estate since 1982 and it's about 1:00 a.m. on the 14th of june they were disturbed by noise from outside mr. ozawa reported that he could also smell smell smoke and he went to check whether they have been a fire in the rubbish chute or a name for the
03:04:13 the rubbish chute or a name for the rooms and their property the couple then went out onto their balcony and saw the fire at Granville Tower mrs. Elsa we went to try and help but it was turned back by police officers she tried to contact her friend
03:04:26 officers she tried to contact her friend Elsa Helga wari but mrs. Elgar didn't answer the phone if I could just take you back mr. chairman to mrs. L sorry statement paragraphs 27 and 29 which I
03:04:45 statement paragraphs 27 and 29 which I WS 5 zeroes 4 to 4 page 5 please and this is the evidence that mrs. L sowwy gives about the couple's evacuation from Baron de Noir
03:04:57 Baron de Noir after standing at the balcony for a few hours praying for the safety of everyone inside the tower we heard loud banging on our front door at around 4 a.m. I shouted out to Zakaria to open the door
03:05:08 shouted out to Zakaria to open the door I said quick quick go and open the door he ran downstairs and opened the door and I followed him down two policemen wearing high-vis jackets were at our door they yelled to get out get out I said I needed to get dressed
03:05:21 get out I said I needed to get dressed and also get our medicine they insisted that we had to leave straightaway I only saw two police officers but there may have been more inside our building as all of our neighbor's doors were also
03:05:33 all of our neighbor's doors were also being knocked down we left the building shortly after for 19 a.m. the police officer was at the door waiting for us to leave I did not take anything I was confused I thought that my building would be on fire too
03:05:45 that my building would be on fire too and that the tower would collapse on the building I felt in danger my initial fear had been confirmed we went out of the rubbish chute area and came into the green area between Behrend and walk and
03:05:57 green area between Behrend and walk and testers and walk while I was walking out I saw many other people walking out of Behrend and walk it was almost like a stampede with people pushing each other out of the way when I came out to the
03:06:08 out of the way when I came out to the green area I noticed a lot of emergency services on which Church Road chairman that's all I proposed to read Thank You
03:06:19 mr. chairman that's all the statements we wish to put in a record in this session our next witness is scheduled for 2:00 p.m. right thank you very much well I think it right to say that we're very grateful to all those who've made
03:06:31 very grateful to all those who've made statements parts of which have been read out this morning they will all form part of the evidence before the inquiry and will be taken into account accordingly thank you
03:06:40 thank you now that's it for the morning it is so we'll right now then and resume at 2:00 o'clock two o'clock yes thank you