Evidence from BSRs (6 November 2018 Pt 2 of 2)

Full transcript

00:07:49 you

00:08:09 you

00:10:05 [Music]

00:10:13 yes just a minute mr. chairman can I begin now this afternoon where I left off just before the lunch break which was discussing reading rereading back in

00:10:26 was discussing reading rereading back in Ambrose Mendez yes we've solved that we have and I apologize it that there was a deeper technical difficulty which I think none of us hadn't anticipated so I apologize to him in particular the

00:10:38 apologize to him in particular the reference is iws quadruple zero 1075 if we can now have that on the screen please this is the first page of what is

00:10:51 please this is the first page of what is a three page statement it's dated the 12th of September 2018 and it stands under a statement of truth on page three as you can see mr. chairman yes and I read into the record out loud paragraphs

00:11:03 read into the record out loud paragraphs two three four and part of at 10:00 and part of eleven I think to do justice to that I should

00:11:15 I think to do justice to that I should just do that again very briefly if if that's acceptable he says a paragraph - I am the cousin to marry Mende and her daughter Khadija say who lived on the 20th floor of flat 173 of Grenville

00:11:28 20th floor of flat 173 of Grenville tower I was granted call participant status and I've been present every day of the oral hearings I've been actively involved in the family and community events for my cousin Mary and her daughter Khadija since their untimely

00:11:39 daughter Khadija since their untimely passing I am now undertaking it as my priority and priority in life to proactively engage in the inquiry process we have a huge family that has not accepted what has become of Mary and

00:11:51 not accepted what has become of Mary and Khadija they simply do not believe that this can happen in the Western world and the my dear cousin it has to come to such cruel and inhumane deaths and then a paragraphs five through two nine he

00:12:02 a paragraphs five through two nine he makes some observations and then at ten he says I await the answers in the hope that one day I can explain the truth to my extended family and my family and begin the healing process I have

00:12:13 begin the healing process I have complete faith in my legal team and I wish from my barristers to fight for justice and retribution until the very end

00:12:20 end thank you very much and that state level standards in its entirety in the record yes and I've already thanked this Mende for taking the trouble to make yes as I

00:12:31 for taking the trouble to make yes as I said before mr. chairman that is that's right well we then have three further statements to read into the record which and I will hope to make a little bit of time to do after the next winner yes who are now its witness is waiting so I'm

00:12:42 are now its witness is waiting so I'm going to call her now and it is she is Helen gave romesco thank you

00:13:27 thank you very much

00:13:31 make yourself comfortable good yes mr. Millard good afternoon miss keV romesco Jepsen can I ask you please to give the inquiry your full name it's Helen government

00:13:42 your full name it's Helen government must go thank you can I start by thanking you very much for coming to the inquiry today and giving evidence it assists us greatly with our investigations and we are extremely grateful two years I should

00:13:55 extremely grateful two years I should just say this that some of the questions many of my questions will be asking you to relive the events of that terrible night and sometimes witnesses find it difficult to do that if you need to

00:14:07 difficult to do that if you need to break at any time or you feel you just want to stop just take a few seconds please just tell us that we can do that or we'll just stop and we will we will know and become quick and just take a break or take a pause

00:14:20 break or take a pause we'll say sometimes when I'm listening to your evidence I'm looking at the screen on my notes I don't mean any disrespect when I do that I'm very much listening to what you've got to say then when I'm looking at the screen it's

00:14:32 when I'm looking at the screen it's because I want to be following exactly what it is you're telling me say and I should also just say that sometimes my questions may be a little difficult to follow usually because I haven't lost

00:14:44 follow usually because I haven't lost them very well so if you want me to repeat the question or put the question in a different way and I'm very happy to do that okay now you've given two statements to the inquiry the first one

00:14:57 statements to the inquiry the first one I think is iws Quinn tuple 0 933 and that I think on the screen there is page 1 I should just say you can either

00:15:08 1 I should just say you can either follow this either on the screen on the desk in front of you or at the back of the hall or in the paper file which is on the desk in front of you whichever you're most comfortable with is this the first page of your first

00:15:20 is this the first page of your first statement miss keV romesco yep it is now can we please go to the last

00:15:31 it is now can we please go to the last page which is page 23 and you'll see a signature there

00:15:49 yeah can you confirm that that's your signature that is my signature cheese have you had an opportunity to read this statement recently I have yeah can you confirm that its contents are true yeah

00:16:00 confirm that its contents are true yeah yeah now you've also made a supplemental statement and that's I WS quadruple zero one one four one if we can just have that on the screen as well please thank you is that the first page of your

00:16:12 you is that the first page of your supplemental statement yep and if you turn to the last page which is page three of that statement you'll see that there's a a date 17th of October 2018

00:16:26 there's a a date 17th of October 2018 and a signature under a statement of truth is that your signature yep and again have you had an opportunity to read this statement recently yes sir and can you confirm again that its contents

00:16:37 can you confirm again that its contents are true yes it is thank you very much now there are I think three exhibits to this statement h g1 h g2 and h g3 which are i WS 1140 1139 and 1142 and the

00:16:53 are i WS 1140 1139 and 1142 and the first two of those 11:40 and 11:30 now in our whatsapp messages from your your friend and I do too care yep yes and the last one is a what's that voice message also from Nadia is that right yep and

00:17:06 also from Nadia is that right yep and I'd ask that those exhibits are admitted into the record and Tim is grabbed aresko that's the formal part of the introduction to your evidence um can I just then turn to some background

00:17:17 just then turn to some background questions as at June 2017 you were a resident of grenfell tower yep and you would live there for some three years by

00:17:28 would live there for some three years by then is that right on the 21st floor yeah the 21st floor and that's flat 186 yeah and before you move to flat 186 I think you lived in

00:17:39 move to flat 186 I think you lived in flat 1/9 one on the 22nd floor yep did you live anywhere else between moving out of flat 1/9 one and moving into flat 186 I've lived there for a long time in

00:17:54 186 I've lived there for a long time in flight 191 and and yes and you say you moved into flat 191 in 1997 97 1997 yeah my question is when you moved out of flat 1

00:18:06 question is when you moved out of flat 1 9 1 was there a gap before moving into 186 or did you move straight straight to 186 yeah and as at the night of the fire

00:18:18 186 yeah and as at the night of the fire 30 14th June 2017 you were living I think a blow at 6 with your your daughter yeah she was 12 years old at the time I think the time yeah

00:18:29 old at the time I think the time yeah and also your dog Simba yeah nobody else in your flat nobody else Leo just three of us yeah can I just ask you one or two questions about the refurbishment um

00:18:41 questions about the refurbishment um first of all your your floor number before the refurbishment was floor 18 yeah and as a result of the refurbishment I think he became floor 21

00:18:53 refurbishment I think he became floor 21 didn't it yep now if I can ask you to look at your witness statement at page 17 your first witness statement you say

00:19:06 17 your first witness statement you say at the bottom of that page of paragraph 99 with regard to the floor numbering on each level after the renovations this became incorrect and out of sequence due to the tower having additional floors

00:19:18 to the tower having additional floors added at a later date this meant that the flat we lived in had originally been on floor 18 but now it became floor 21 the lifts therefore indicated that we lived on floor 21 but the council did

00:19:30 lived on floor 21 but the council did not change the floor numbers in the stairwell which still indicated that we were on floor 18 now I just want to ask you about that does that mean that as at

00:19:41 you about that does that mean that as at the night of the fire June 2017 the number on the wall in the stairwell opposite floor 21 still said 18 on it yeah you sure about that 100%

00:19:53 18 on it yeah you sure about that 100% and how did you know that I know I always take this text all the time right and when you were taking the stairs did

00:20:04 and when you were taking the stairs did you notice the floor numbering I always notice it all the floors are out of sync in that way or just floor 18 obviously

00:20:16 in that way or just floor 18 obviously when I come up I come to my floor which is 18 but it's 21st floor so that's why I know it's 18th floor is 21st floor and it hasn't changed he was there all the time the whole time

00:20:27 was there all the time the whole time was there they haven't changed it did you notice the numbering on other floors in the stairwell yeah do they have the same problem yeah now a

00:20:43 do they have the same problem yeah now a paragraph a hundred you say I was aware of the error but up until the fire it never impacted me first of all did you ever take up the error as you call it with the TMO at any time no you say it

00:20:59 with the TMO at any time no you say it didn't I was always asking question why they didn't change but it didn't bother me and I didn't think this would happen so okay you say it didn't impact you never impacted you do you know whether

00:21:11 never impacted you do you know whether it affected anybody else the mismatching of the numbers on the floor what do you mean can you repeat that please yeah do

00:21:22 mean can you repeat that please yeah do you know whether the fact that the numbers in the stairs didn't match the level of the floor of the building affected anybody else to your knowledge did anybody else suffer from it or have

00:21:34 did anybody else suffer from it or have a problem because it's not that I talk to anyone but I'm sure at the night you know the firefighter there must be confused they didn't know which will flow to go to right but the other resident I haven't spoke to anyone

00:21:50 and we're still on page 18 of your statement and you cover the question of Windows at paragraph 106 at the bottom of the page and you say the replacement

00:22:04 of the page and you say the replacement windows that were installed approximately three years ago were double glazed they had a large ledge whereas the previous Windows did not and

00:22:15 whereas the previous Windows did not and then you go on to say the ledgers large enough to place a VARs on the quality of the refurbishment was to my mind good as the windows appeared to be of good quality and look very nice however in retrospect although the

00:22:26 however in retrospect although the windows look nice they appear to have had serious defects in terms of the fire when you when you say in terms of the fire what do you mean I didn't have no

00:22:41 fire what do you mean I didn't have no problem with the window

00:22:48 can you repeat the question let me see if I can get get it this way um what first of all were all your windows in the flat replaced when the refurbishment was well with when the refurbishment was

00:23:01 was well with when the refurbishment was done mm-hmm where all your windows replaced yeah all of it okay did you ever notice any problems with the windows after they were replaced did

00:23:12 the windows after they were replaced did you ever notice any drafts coming through around the windows no the reason why I always leave the window open I like my fresh air so therefore I didn't notice anything okay right so when you

00:23:27 notice anything okay right so when you say in your statement of paragraph 106 at the top of page 19 in retrospect although the windows look nice they appear to have had serious defects in terms of the fire are you

00:23:39 defects in terms of the fire are you referring to defects that you noticed or knew about before the fire can you say that again yes the defects that you're referring to the serious defects are

00:23:50 referring to the serious defects are those defects that you noticed before the fire happened they're defective there

00:24:00 I didn't get that sorry okay I just I just tried to work out what what you're what you're referring to in your statement here when you refer to serious defects in terms of the fire is

00:24:12 serious defects in terms of the fire is that is that the defect well let me ask you what are the defects that you're referring to here you refer to serious defects can you tell us what those what

00:24:25 defects can you tell us what those what those are are you talking about the windows yes there was not difficult I didn't see any that's what I'm saying okay now that page 21 of your statement

00:24:42 you have paragraph 121 on the middle of that page and you say our front door had

00:24:54 that page and you say our front door had been changed at the time the modifications were carried out on the flat I didn't notice anything specific about the door as it's not something that I would take much notice of and and

00:25:05 that I would take much notice of and and that follows on from something you say at the end of paragraph 120 which is to clarify the door did not have an automatic hinge to close the door and

00:25:16 automatic hinge to close the door and you had to close it after you now I've read it to you in that order because I just want you to help me with with one or two things about that when the door was installed when it was

00:25:28 when the door was installed when it was changed did it become self closing was it a self closing door and I'll have to shut it you still have to shut it yeah okay did you ever have a self closing

00:25:40 okay did you ever have a self closing door

00:25:45 after the new door was fitted do you did you notice if there were any gaps around it didn't notice any air coming in or

00:25:56 it didn't notice any air coming in or living or or any breeze did did you ever hear mechanical sounds or the sounds of

00:26:10 hear mechanical sounds or the sounds of a ventilation system operating when you were standing in the lobby at any time

00:26:17 no I'm always rushing to go to work and when I come home I'm late and I just want to go home I didn't notice none of that okay I'm

00:26:32 I didn't notice none of that okay I'm just going to show you a couple of photographs taken by our experts inside the building okay after the fire so a UHF before that before they're

00:26:43 so a UHF before that before they're shown on the screen are you alright to look at photographs inside the building these are BL a quadruple zero two one two five one three and two five one four and these are taken long but these are

00:26:55 and these are taken long but these are photographs taken on the sixth floor so not your floor and you can see that both ends of the of the lobby you've got vents you've got vents on the

00:27:08 you've got vents you've got vents on the left hand photograph which is taken towards the north wall of the lobby the vents are just under the ceiling and on the right-hand side of the screen we've got the photographs a photograph taken

00:27:19 got the photographs a photograph taken in exactly the opposite direction towards the south wall where the vents are towards the floor did you ever know did you ever notice that there were events there to be honest okay

00:27:35 that we could take those down and then going back to page 21 of your statement

00:27:43 at paragraph 119 you say prior to the fire I believe that if there was a fire we should just get out but this was

00:27:54 we should just get out but this was contrary to what we were told by the emergency services on the night of the fire

00:27:58 fire well I realized there was a fire my first reaction was to get out this was based on common sense the reason I didn't stay put was due to common sense that it was better just to get out or we would be trapped and then I'll come to

00:28:10 would be trapped and then I'll come to I'll come back later on to what you say in the rest of that paragraph did you ever get any information or any advice

00:28:24 ever get any information or any advice from any organization or or any individual about what you should do in the event of a fire somewhere in Grenfell tower can the witness please be

00:28:35 Grenfell tower can the witness please be shown inq six zeros number 93 now miss Cara massacred this is a sign yeah it

00:28:46 Cara massacred this is a sign yeah it was a photograph of assignment yeah and taken from beside the lifts on floor three of the building after the fire by our experts and have you ever seen this before

00:28:56 before do you remember where you saw it there was one down sirs which is the main entrance yeah why the lift and the next one was on our floor which is 21st floor

00:29:09 one was on our floor which is 21st floor but again by the night okay did you ever read it yes okay and did you did you notice at the very top underneath fire

00:29:20 notice at the very top underneath fire action Grenville tower it said there is a stay put policy for residents unless the fire is in or affecting your flat did you did you read a bit I have but then again he was put down just a few

00:29:35 then again he was put down just a few months before the fire he was not there before right okay was there any advice that you know in the form of a sign attached to anywhere in the building before just sign first

00:29:48 in the building before just sign first went up now you move into the building first in 1997 I wonder if the witness could be shown I WS five zeros five

00:30:01 could be shown I WS five zeros five hundred sorry inq five zeros five hundred

00:30:28 that's not new I WS sorry I was right the first time I WS v zero is 500

00:30:44 now this is a sign which has been the subject of some evidence from some previous witnesses who lived in the tower you've come to the inquiry can I ask you have you ever seen this

00:30:56 can I ask you have you ever seen this sign before I haven't seen it I don't remember

00:31:00 remember no okay all right going back to the sign we were looking at before I in q93 we

00:31:14 we were looking at before I in q93 we just have that back up again where it says if you are safely this is a third

00:31:26 says if you are safely this is a third of the way down if you are safely within your flat and there is a fire elsewhere in the block and then in green it says it's not very easy to read but it says you should initially be safe to stay in your flat keeping the doors and windows

00:31:37 your flat keeping the doors and windows closed on arrival the fire brigade will make an assessment and will assist with evacuation if required do you remember reading that bit of the sign yeah I do

00:31:49 reading that bit of the sign yeah I do remember are we doing it right and what was your what was your takeaway message from them from this sign having looked at it about what the advice you were

00:32:00 at it about what the advice you were being given was it doesn't matter you know I mean there is a fire in the building even though this instruction but as a common sense you just need to

00:32:11 but as a common sense you just need to get out you don't want to take a chance orkap is my lead can I then then turn to the night of the fire itself now on that night you were I

00:32:24 fire itself now on that night you were I think at home with your daughter and your dog yeah there was no one else there

00:32:28 there yeah and at paragraph 13 of your statement on page 3 you explained that

00:32:40 statement on page 3 you explained that you were asleep when you were woken up by the sound of a smoke alarm or kitchen going off and then you say you went to your kitchen and saw there was a fire and grabbed your daughter and left now

00:32:51 and grabbed your daughter and left now that's there's a lot of history in that I just want to break it down if I can just a little bit first of all I wonder if we could just have on the screen m80 one two five nine three now this I

00:33:07 one two five nine three now this I should just tell you miss Gerber Maskell is a cross-section of grenfell tower at level one effectively so you've got flat

00:33:19 level one effectively so you've got flat six in the top right-hand corner of the northeast corner and all of the flats from this level upwards are the same in terms of in terms of configuration

00:33:31 terms of in terms of configuration within the floor so although this isn't your floor the layout of the lobby and the flats is essentially the same if we could just have a flat six blown up on

00:33:42 could just have a flat six blown up on the plan this would equate to flat 186

00:33:47 which was your flat first of all just looking at this schematic plan was the layout of your flat the same more or

00:33:58 layout of your flat the same more or less the same as is shown here on the plan

00:34:05 thank you yes now when let's see we can see you've got two bedrooms which bedroom were you asleep in on the night of the fire next to the bathroom so the

00:34:19 of the fire next to the bathroom so the one like one of the middle room thank me and what about your daughter sure sleeping with me that nice okay now

00:34:33 sure sleeping with me that nice okay now I think you've said in your statement that there were two smoke alarms installed by IRB KC one in the kitchen and one in the hallway is that right and were they working on the night of the

00:34:44 were they working on the night of the fire no kitchen lon yeah did that go off it did yeah now you say it paragraph 30 that when you wake up you could smell

00:34:55 that when you wake up you could smell smoke yeah just trying to recall that moment it was that as soon as you wake up no the alarm went off first right and then after that they smell the smoke

00:35:09 then after that they smell the smoke okay and you could smell smoke in your bedroom yeah it was coming here do you remember what it smelled off the smoke

00:35:21 remember what it smelled off the smoke just smell just burning like plastic right okay when you wake up did you put

00:35:35 right okay when you wake up did you put your lights on yes I did could you see any signs of smoke in your belly I did on the hallway here and the corridor yeah okay what about in your

00:35:47 corridor yeah okay what about in your bedroom

00:35:47 bedroom no it don't come to my bed okay and now paragraph 14 you say I recall that upon

00:35:58 paragraph 14 you say I recall that upon entering the kitchen I explore the extractor fan in the kitchen window had broken away and disintegrated due to fire

00:36:07 if I can ask you to be shown please be la 3 page 23 B la 3 page 23 this is a

00:36:23 la 3 page 23 B la 3 page 23 this is a photograph of a window from the kitchen in flat 13 Grenville tower taken after the fire and did your kitchen window look like the one in this picture yeah

00:36:35 look like the one in this picture yeah with the extractor fan in the top right hand corner set into a panel yeah okay

00:36:44 so when you came into the kitchen my reference to this picture what was on can you explain what was on fire

00:36:52 basically the extractor it was burn and it was in pieces in the floor and then there's a hole like the fire was coming in okay so that the hole was at the

00:37:06 in okay so that the hole was at the whole rhythm the fan unit was sitting or was it a square hole whether the panel had been it was the square I remember it because I didn't want to stay the only

00:37:19 because I didn't want to stay the only thing I was thinking it was just to get out take my daughter and get out I didn't think but I know that it was in pieces in the floor and there was a fire coming in and that's why I just write get out so just say that we're really

00:37:32 get out so just say that we're really pretty clear about this that the hole was was a square hole or a round square right yep

00:37:39 did you and I know this is a difficult because you weren't never very long do you remember whether there was any fire coming around from anywhere else around the window no that's the only place was

00:37:51 the window no that's the only place was coming okay the day instructive was there any smoke coming into your kitchen at that point smoking do you remember what the color of the smoke was it was luck but it's

00:38:05 of the smoke was it was luck but it's not very thick right it's blank you okay did you did you smell it did it have a particular smell what was the smell like a plastic again like a plastic it was the same smell as you'd smelt in the

00:38:16 the same smell as you'd smelt in the hallway did that smoke at that time have any physical effect on you not at a time long okay

00:38:29 roughly and it's bound to be about how long do you think you stayed in the kitchen I did stay long no seconds can

00:38:40 kitchen I did stay long no seconds can you estimate intercept five 10-second yep now paragraph 15 of your statement you refer to going to your bedroom to

00:38:52 you refer to going to your bedroom to get your daughter and you say in the third line I grabbed her she picked up Simba our dog and we left the left our flat as we stepped outside of our flat

00:39:03 flat as we stepped outside of our flat that is what I call the fire brigade as set out above how long do you estimate you've spent in your flat from the point you work up to the point you left all

00:39:17 you work up to the point you left all the point you call the fire brigade

00:39:21 everything happened so fast but I will assume I'm 100% sure but about five minutes five six minutes as you left

00:39:32 minutes five six minutes as you left your flat did you notice what the smoke conditions in the flat were I just closed the doors thought I don't know okay did you notice any smoke at all and

00:39:43 okay did you notice any smoke at all and the flat door was it when I came out from my flat when you as you were leaving yeah there was yeah right was there much smoke in your flat by the time you left as I say I don't remember

00:39:58 time you left as I say I don't remember but it was everything was happening so fast and I just my main priority was just to take my daughter and just get out so therefore I don't know when you

00:40:09 out so therefore I don't know when you left your flat I think you you said you close your door behind you yeah that's right when you enter into the communal lobby and leave flat 6 come out of your front door you turn right

00:40:22 out of your front door you turn right when you come out here you turned left not right left-left did you turn left or did you turn right

00:40:37 I came out and yeah turn left okay did you notice what the conditions were like in the communal Lobby at that point to be honest when I came out and I thought

00:40:50 be honest when I came out and I thought it was only my flat was on fire until I see my neighbor so okay we'll come to that in shut in a moment can we just get

00:41:02 that in shut in a moment can we just get back to MIT triple zero one two five nine three

00:41:15 and just

00:41:23 so you come out of did you just point out where your emotion I'm sorry could we go back to the floor plan the full floor plan so you come out of your front door your front door is I think we can

00:41:35 door your front door is I think we can see it is to them it's to the bottom left-hand corner of the flat plan isn't it where it comes out into the lamp into the lobby mm-hmm so when you went out into the lobby and

00:41:48 so when you went out into the lobby and you would have turned you would have turned right and you left is a left is a wall yeah actually - done right sorry taken take out its you're working with your recollection

00:42:00 you're working with your recollection I'm working with the plans look then and sometimes they would they mismatched do you remember when the moment you came out what the smoke conditions were like there was not too much smoke there was

00:42:12 there was not too much smoke there was not too much to me did he see where the smoke was and it was really like a layer of smoke or was it different as I say there was not so much smoke and so many thing was happening at the same time so

00:42:24 thing was happening at the same time so I didn't notice and then again you may give the same answer to this question but let me ask it anywhere did you notice this at any particular sound when

00:42:35 notice this at any particular sound when you came out into the lobby yeah there was a nice noise can you describe that noise for us it's alarm but not like alarm I can't describe it but there was

00:42:47 alarm I can't describe it but there was a noise

00:42:52 was it a noise you've heard before no I've never heard it before yeah was it annoying the devil to put ideas in your mind but was it up as an alarm like noise or was it like a fun noise

00:43:03 like noise or was it like a fun noise I'm not sure that there was a noise very strong noise do you know whether nor did you detect where the noise was coming from I have no idea okay is that a high noise or a low noise it's

00:43:15 is that a high noise or a low noise it's very high hi could you compare it sitting here and doing a but do you know best to try to compare it with a machine could you compare it with any machine like a domestic machine or some kind

00:43:28 like a domestic machine or some kind probably what kind of machine would you hear it would you say it was sounded like

00:43:42 okay okay well we're company make them come back to that later on when you get back into the lobby now we've got your call time

00:43:56 the lobby now we've got your call time for your first 999 call at oh one 26:54 and the transcript for that call is lfb

00:44:09 and the transcript for that call is lfb 3:06

00:44:16 if we can just have that up on the screen

00:44:22 intercept

00:44:29 but that's no that's not it that's three zero six zero so I've got three lfb five zeros 3 0 6

00:44:45 yes thank you and miss Crabtree let's go the time of this call and you can see from the group of numbers second from

00:44:56 from the group of numbers second from the right in the long blue line of figures and details and it says oh one two six five four which is 126 54 which is the time of your call and

00:45:12 you are put through to the fire brigade and we started we see at page 2 caller oh my god can you hurry up please hello fire brigade what's happening on my god hello hello fire brigade first

00:45:24 my god hello hello fire brigade first first of all it was a man who especially do I think wasn't it I don't you really don't remember okay right fair enough dude do you remember where you were when you made this call were you inside your

00:45:36 you made this call were you inside your flat leaving or where you were already in the lobby I was already on one lobby okay and then you say halfway down the page caller can you send someone there

00:45:49 page caller can you send someone there is a fire in 186 Grand felt our operator yeah we're actually already there so we have a lot of fire engines where are you inaudible on Grenfell tower everyone is out yeah where exactly are you in the

00:46:01 out yeah where exactly are you in the tower in the building in the building the whole building there's been a fire just pausing there when you say the whole building why why do you think you were telling the operator that there was

00:46:12 were telling the operator that there was a whole building because after I saw as I say to you I thought it was only my floods was on the fire until I see my

00:46:23 floods was on the fire until I see my neighbors and they are the one who told us that it's the whole building okay no I'll come back to this call in a moment

00:46:34 I'll come back to this call in a moment but in your statement if you could just go to paragraph 16 you this is page 4 of your statement you say having listened

00:46:48 your statement you say having listened to the 9990 now it seems there was some confusion and the operator I was speaking to believe that we were not inside our flat all the tower I believe the confusion was cause when I was talking to the fire operator I said

00:46:59 was talking to the fire operator I said that they are out referring to my neighbors from flat 182 who were on the landing outside their flat I was not referring to me and my daughter having

00:47:10 referring to me and my daughter having left the tower now just trying to picture what was happening you make the call when you were on in the lobby had you seen that

00:47:22 were on in the lobby had you seen that the family before you made the call or while you were making it I saw the family okay before you made the call yep okay did you talk to them yeah I just

00:47:33 okay did you talk to them yeah I just say to them there's a fire in my house did they say anything to you yeah they say it's the whole building they said is the whole deal and where were they when

00:47:45 the whole deal and where were they when you saw them outside their flight that's a definite

00:47:53 that's I think flat 182 is that right

00:48:00 do you remember which fat members of the family you saw I saw all of them do not have a break mr. Chairman I think maybe

00:48:15 take a just take a minute

00:49:05 yeah you okay to continue we could take a break if you need okay just try to take this slowly do you remember who you

00:49:17 take this slowly do you remember who you spoke to

00:49:17 spoke to which member of the family is voting [Music]

00:49:27 as I said to you everything was going fast and but I did stick to the family but I cannot say who why did you speak to them and they said to you the fathers

00:49:38 to them and they said to you the fathers in the whole building did they say anything else to you hmm did they say anything else to you

00:49:48 did you say anything else to them was there do you remember a conversation with anybody in that family about

00:50:00 with anybody in that family about whether you should go into their Flint 1-8 - I thought pointing to all of us we wanted to take the stairs and when we

00:50:14 wanted to take the stairs and when we opened the fire exit door there was a lot of bunch of people and they were telling us to go back up to our flat

00:50:31 but I'll come I'll come to that in a moment because I won't do want to ask you a bit more about about that but before I do can I just ask you this did you see any other neighbors on the floor

00:50:43 you see any other neighbors on the floor on your floor at that time yeah can you remember who you saw Marcio my neighbor 183 yes did you see anybody

00:50:55 neighbor 183 yes did you see anybody else mmm

00:50:57 else mmm I saw a lot of people which they come to our floor for them from the lower floor right did you did you see mr. fat Abdul

00:51:08 right did you did you see mr. fat Abdul from flat 184

00:51:15 you describe a paragraph 17 in your statement how you went to wake up Marcio gomez before trying to leave the tower

00:51:29 gomez before trying to leave the tower by the stairs does that after your 909 call

00:51:40 okay

00:51:48 and what should you do did you knock on his door yeah and we had to wait a little bit of time I think for Marcio to open the door you know during that time did you notice any change in the

00:52:01 did you notice any change in the conditions of the lobby you were standing it actually after I knock Marcia's door and when he open I say there's a fire and then we went to the

00:52:13 there's a fire and then we went to the the fire exit to get out and that's when they told us to go back to our flat now

00:52:24 they told us to go back to our flat now I'm gonna ask you about going to the stairs and seeing the people coming up and just a moment before I do can I just take you back to the first 999 call just finished that off I said the first man

00:52:36 finished that off I said the first man I've got your 999 call and finished that off it back to lfb 306 and turn to page 3 you can see the advice on that page

00:52:48 3 you can see the advice on that page the operators is right just stay outside okay and you say can you please hurry please send someone please we're already there okay there's a fire yeah I know

00:52:59 there okay there's a fire yeah I know there's a fire and the fire get already there okay we've got something going it's the whole building stay outside

00:53:11 when you were told we're already there the fire brigade said we're already there what did you expect them to be doing obviously they are in the building

00:53:23 doing obviously they are in the building if they say they are there to look into it right

00:53:35 and did you get any assurance or comfort from what you were told on that call at a time you what did you what did you

00:53:47 a time you what did you what did you expect what happened well as there are those that they profession you know obviously they are there to rescue us and they know you know so that was my

00:54:00 and they know you know so that was my hope for them to come and take us out now you then knock on Marcia's door and the family comes and then I think you

00:54:12 the family comes and then I think you all leave and go to the stairs is that right Paden you or the whole of the gamers family came out together went to the stair door together did d store the

00:54:27 the stair door together did d store the stair door open did somebody open the stair door I open it you opened it did you notice what the conditions were like in the stairs at the time it's too dark you can't see nothing you couldn't see why couldn't

00:54:41 nothing you couldn't see why couldn't you see anything because of this smoke can you describe the smoke at that time it was black thick smoke

00:55:00 how did that compare with the conditions in the lobby on the 21st floor at that time the same thing is dark right so nobody see if I can just explore this a

00:55:12 nobody see if I can just explore this a bit more but the time you knock on Mars is not smoke it was no Spectre and by the time they came out no I went inside to their house and I stay there okay

00:55:25 to their house and I stay there okay this has taken is a little bit more more slowly the paragraph 18 of your statement you say once we'd woken Marcy

00:55:36 statement you say once we'd woken Marcy a while he was still at his door I went to the fire exit door leading to the stairwell on the landing to see about escaping down the stairs I opened the far door but did not get down at this point I think it was about

00:55:50 down at this point I think it was about 1:30 a.m. and there was smoke but not so much that we couldn't see each other now at that point is it just you opening the stairs or did not was Marcia with you are you talking about after or before at

00:56:04 are you talking about after or before at this point so early on not early on he didn't try to come out because when we tried to get out that's when the people told us to go back up to our flat yes

00:56:17 told us to go back up to our flat yes and that's when Marcy oh he called us and we went to his flats and we stayed there until the end until we get out and you that time there was no smoke no smoke there was that not not too much

00:56:29 smoke there was that not not too much right okay that's we can still see each other

00:56:32 other yep they used to describe people going up the stairs how many people roughly do you think you saw there's a lot of people right can you can you just can

00:56:43 people right can you can you just can you describe whether they were wearing night wear or whether they would dress that for escape I remember only one person but I don't remember the rest of them but and I don't remember what they

00:56:56 them but and I don't remember what they were wearing so no still in paragraph 18

00:57:01 you say four lines up from the bottom they told us to go back to our flat when the US there is that you and your daughter and Allah Hafiz well and Al

00:57:15 daughter and Allah Hafiz well and Al Wahhabi 183 I see see okay so you were all together trying to get out yeah and when they told you to get back do you

00:57:26 when they told you to get back do you remember who told you that the people was formed the lower floor they're trying to come to our floor right did they tell you who had told

00:57:38 right did they tell you who had told them to go upstairs well I assume they've been told by the professionals which is the firefighter they must have told them right they're giving us the instruction as well yeah that's an

00:57:50 instruction as well yeah that's an assumption yeah that's what I assumed yes okay

00:58:01 and when you went back to Marcia Gomez did you tell him that the firefighters had said go upstairs you remember telling him that I don't remember

00:58:12 telling him that I don't remember telling him but I'm sure I must have yep okay no he called us actually he saw the whole situation he was outside his door I remember when they told us to go back

00:58:23 I remember when they told us to go back to our flat thus when Marcia he say come and we went to his flat and then I think you say at the top of page 5 in

00:58:36 you say at the top of page 5 in paragraph 19 at this time I noticed that other residents on the floor went into flat 182 and that was where the family we discussed earlier had lived do you

00:58:47 we discussed earlier had lived do you remember how many people went into flat 182 I can't remember but there were few people were following them I know that

00:58:59 right did you actually see people go into flat 182 yourself I didn't see but I saw them following so everyone was running and I went to Marcy was flat and

00:59:11 running and I went to Marcy was flat and some of them went up step as I say to you there was a lot of people a lot okay so I'm 100% sure how many so all right

00:59:22 so I'm 100% sure how many so all right could you would you be able to describe those people who you thought were going into flat 182 who all who were following

00:59:35 now I know that you then went into flat 183 Gomez family's flat when you went in

00:59:46 183 Gomez family's flat when you went in there what was what were the conditions like

00:59:56 there was no smoke in the house at that time at that point and you say in your statement at paragraph 21 the your

01:00:12 statement at paragraph 21 the your daughter you say and I went to Marcia's flat with Simba we closed the door behind us it was about 1:30 a.m. when we went into their home how do you know

01:00:23 went into their home how do you know well how are you estimating what time it was when he went into their flat because I had my form the whole time with me okay yeah so it was a about for three or four minutes after that yeah right now

01:00:36 four minutes after that yeah right now paragraph 22 of your statement you say about around this time I received calls from various people including friends and family from outside the tower they were all telling me that we needed to

01:00:47 were all telling me that we needed to get out of Grenfell tower they were crying on the phone and telling us we had to get out as they said it looked really bad my cousin Kay Carradine was on the phone to me as well telling us to get out did you did they tell you why

01:01:04 get out did you did they tell you why you needed to get out obviously the fire was going around and it's not we was not stopping so we cannot see from that out of the inside but they can see it from the outside and we didn't even know how

01:01:16 the outside and we didn't even know how bad it was and the paragraph 23 you say the same around the same time Marcia was on the phone to emergency services who were telling him that we should stay in the flat when the someone would come and

01:01:27 the flat when the someone would come and rescue us did you actually hear him on the phone to the emergency services I

01:01:34 didn't hear but that's what everyone was saying to us whenever we spoke to them they told us to stay in do you say at

01:01:49 they told us to stay in do you say at the same time Marcia was on the phone to emergency services do you know which services you think he was speaking to I can't remember because there was a little phone call that was coming up and we were calling so I don't remember yeah but the reason I'm asking you the

01:02:02 but the reason I'm asking you the question and this gave romesco is because the first lfb call we've got for Marcia

01:02:08 Marcia was his call at to 2122 2104 so about 50 minutes later so my question is are you sure he was on the phone to the

01:02:19 sure he was on the phone to the emergency services at that early stage when he first went into the flat

01:02:31 when you went into the flat so I let me tell us this what before you went into the flat well he was still in the lobby do you remember whether there was any smoke coming from your flat 186 no no

01:02:46 smoke coming from your flat 186 no no that was I only see it inside not from our side not now the paragraph 24 of your statement you explained who was in

01:02:59 your statement you explained who was in the flat

01:02:59 the flat it's Marcia and Andrea and their children and your daughter and the two dogs Simba and Lilly Lilly being the game is done and you say in the next

01:03:17 game is done and you say in the next paragraph 25 you say as stated above we were sitting in the living room trying to decide what to do there was smoke coming under the front door of the flat

01:03:29 how long after you came into the flat did smoke start coming under the game as his front door I think I would say half

01:03:40 his front door I think I would say half an hour okay is that a is that a as an estimate yep about half enough at that point when

01:03:54 about half enough at that point when smoke started coming in under the door was there with their towels they're already or yeah Marcio he was doing that so that would be about 2 a.m. then

01:04:08 so that would be about 2 a.m. then probably okay did you see any smoke coming into the flat from anywhere else yeah we saw it in Marshall's house know when you were in Marcia's house yeah did

01:04:20 when you were in Marcia's house yeah did you see what was coming in yeah yeah you told us about the front door that was when you were in Marcia's house did you see smoke coming into that house from anywhere else from anywhere else there

01:04:34 anywhere else from anywhere else there was smoke a lot of smokes coming and

01:04:47 obviously is from the hallway you know it's a apart from smoke coming in under the front door do you remember seeing

01:05:00 the front door do you remember seeing smoke coming into the flat from anywhere else like windows or by the window yeah okay well do you remember which window you saw smoke coming in from in the

01:05:11 you saw smoke coming in from in the living room his living room yeah okay I

01:05:17 wonder if we can just well mr. chairman may be an appropriate time to take a break I notice that we've been going an hour and it's well we're time to take a

01:05:29 hour and it's well we're time to take a break anyway this is a convenient well I'm in the middle of a long flow of questions all linked to the conditions in the game Aziz flat say it's as good a time to take yes if I can well give

01:05:41 time to take yes if I can well give romesco we we do have a break every now and then and I think this would be a good time to have so we'll stop now until twenty past three please don't talk to anyone about your evidence while

01:05:52 talk to anyone about your evidence while you're out and if you like to get with the I sure she'll look after you all right

01:06:11 24th reading please

01:19:28 right could you ask the witness to come back please

01:19:52 alright are you are you happy to carry on thank you when you're ready mr. minute thank you very much mr. skevur of Mexico thank you very much for coming going back to us can I just I just want

01:20:05 going back to us can I just I just want to ask you about what was happening in the flat in the game is flat when you were there and can I ask you please to be shown the floor plan again which is one two five nine three m81 two five

01:20:20 one two five nine three m81 two five nine three can I can I ask you Ralph please to expand flats real what is equates to 183 now miss Cameron let's go

01:20:31 equates to 183 now miss Cameron let's go on this plan I'm showing you a plan of what the game raises flatten roughly looks like I'm not sure on myself yet whether or not that's exactly the same

01:20:43 whether or not that's exactly the same interior layout because he's not given evidence yet but can you just help us you were describing seeing smoke coming in through the living room window once

01:20:55 in through the living room window once you were in the flat can you point out to us on this plan which window that is

01:21:08 you know in in the tower there's a lot of windows around it so basically we were in the living room and the smoke was coming from all the windows right

01:21:22 was coming from all the windows right all the windows another all the windows here okay their house is it's open plan they don't have the sliding door so basically the kitchen and the living

01:21:34 basically the kitchen and the living room is together I see yeah and with the windows open or closed do you remember no we open it yeah when the smoke was coming through

01:21:46 yeah when the smoke was coming through the open windows was it yep okay now you say in your statement power 26 at about 2:00 a.m. Marcio said that he was going

01:21:58 2:00 a.m. Marcio said that he was going to knock on the door of the old Filipino lady in the flat opposite can you say he went to her front door and opened it and this was when we realized how bad the

01:22:09 this was when we realized how bad the conditions were outside the flat just before we go on to the conditions do you know what made Marcio get up and go to the lady

01:22:23 Marcio get up and go to the lady opposite so that he they was thinking to go and let heard no there's a fire in the building right that's why okay you say in your statement he went to her

01:22:34 say in your statement he went to her front door and opened it do you mean the lady's front door no no you mean he's a he's on dog his own front door okay do you know the lady before the cleaning

01:22:46 you know the lady before the cleaning lady do you know what her name was I'll gaya I think the gaya because I'm the guy amore okay did you know her I

01:22:57 the guy amore okay did you know her I say hello to her but I am NOT that close as a neighbor we do say hello and you know now you've given a time of this of

01:23:09 know now you've given a time of this of about 2 a.m. again how do you remember it was 2 a.m. as I say I have my phone with me the whole time right see did you say when Marcia went to the dawn to go to alert

01:23:21 Marcia went to the dawn to go to alert but to warn legaia did you notice the tech the time on your phone

01:23:34 I estimated awesome when I went to his house and he was I think I assume like it was right after half an hour yes okay

01:23:49 was this the first time that Marcia had opened his front door after you had when your daughter had come into the flat yep okay did you yourself see Marcia open

01:24:04 okay did you yourself see Marcia open the front door no I didn't okay so when in your statement you say the smoke outside the front door at this time had become really thick and black is that

01:24:16 become really thick and black is that something you saw or is that something Marcia told you no when he opened the door and he told us how serious it was and then obviously we went and we

01:24:27 and then obviously we went and we checked and there was smoke coming in right so you went to have a look yourself did you I think I did yet okay

01:24:38 you say look in the fourth line in the same paragraph there was a strong smoky smell and it was getting worse we were all coughing due to the smoke and it was

01:24:49 all coughing due to the smoke and it was getting harder to breathe and the heat was increasing was the smoke filling the flattop at this point

01:25:01 and the smell of the smoke can you describe the smell in any in any greater detail very strong burning is what the

01:25:13 detail very strong burning is what the smell wrote like chemical but I can't describe it what kind of chemical thought I can smell it I'd like to see like a chemical right like chemicals is

01:25:26 like a chemical right like chemicals is it like anything you'd smell burning before did remind you of anything particular you mean in my house there's the smoke yeah and anything you've ever

01:25:37 the smoke yeah and anything you've ever experienced before

01:25:45 no bleeding okay

01:25:53 and you say you were coughing you're all coughing due to the smoke did you start coughing what when did you all start coughing do you think because of the

01:26:06 coughing do you think because of the smoke was coming he was getting worst he's not getting you know that's why we start to smoke all of us who are smoking so about the same time sorry it's about the same time yep

01:26:17 the same time yep as the smoke is getting stronger you started coughing okay did you notice any physical effects that the smoke had on you is making you cough were there any other physical effects on you or your daughter

01:26:28 daughter no just coughing now you mentioned heat we can say the heat was increasing did you do you remember whether you could tell whether the heat was coming from a

01:26:39 tell whether the heat was coming from a particular direction or was it just all-around heat okay then turning the paragraph to page six paragraph 27 do

01:26:52 paragraph to page six paragraph 27 do you say it was then that we realized we had to get out of the tower and that we would die if we remained in the flat

01:27:02 what made you realize that it was getting worse so if we stayed then right you're gonna die so

01:27:16 did you have a discussion with Marcia or Andrea about having to get out otherwise you might die yeah Marcia was instructing us what does he say

01:27:27 he say we have to go out we have to go

01:27:37 and you then go on in your paragraph st. paragraph 27 to say at this point Marcio said we had to escape so he filled the bathtub with water and soap towels in

01:27:49 bathtub with water and soap towels in the bath and gave us two towels each one bath tile and one tea towel did you watch Marcio fill the bath yes or no did you notice any problems with

01:28:02 or no did you notice any problems with the water pressure when he did say at the time no and then you say Marcia passed me the phone while he was doing this and I spoke to the emergency

01:28:13 this and I spoke to the emergency services the fire brigade operator told me to remain where we all were and that someone would come to rescue us

01:28:22 now there just want to ask you a little bit about about that the first call that we've got in the transcripts for those calls for mr. Gomez

01:28:34 calls for mr. Gomez Marcia is at 221 and four seconds o to 2104 and that is LF be three four eight and

01:28:50 we've we've seen the call and listen to the call that there's only one caller on that call and it's it's mr. Gomez my

01:29:03 that call and it's it's mr. Gomez my question is do you think it's really right that you spoke to the emergency services at that point while he was filling the bath at the time we've been

01:29:14 filling the bath at the time we've been calling friends and to pass us either to a police officer or the fire brigade but I assume maybe I was using my phone oh

01:29:26 right but we did talk to the police and the fire fighter outside but there was a time that I used my phone to call a friend and we asked them to pass it to

01:29:38 friend and we asked them to pass it to us okay to the police I see

01:29:51 so when you say then the fire brigade operator told me to remain where we all were and someone will come to rescue us are you referring to a call made by you to a friend who then passed you to a firefighter yep outside or to the police

01:30:03 firefighter yep outside or to the police officer and police are I remember yeah okay right now well on the subject of

01:30:15 the call that Marcio Gomez made and I've we've got the transcript still on the on the screen can I ask you just two

01:30:34 look at it what he says on page two at the top a quarter of the way down I'm reporting a fire a grenfell tower which

01:30:46 reporting a fire a grenfell tower which you should know about and he goes on to explain we're still on the 21st floor and goes on to explain I've got a heavily pregnant wife and the top of page three he says yeah me my wife three

01:30:59 page three he says yeah me my wife three kids and my neighbor did you hear him make this call do you think

01:31:16 as I say it's everything was going fast in were saw all confused so right do you remember Marcia Gomez telling you after he'd filled the bath or around

01:31:27 after he'd filled the bath or around about that time that he'd spoken to 999 and was told that the lfb knew where

01:31:38 and was told that the lfb knew where they were and were going to come and get you did Marcia tell you that that is what he'd been told yeah that's what

01:31:49 what he'd been told yeah that's what they've been saying obviously I don't remember you know as I say to you again it's very confusing and going back to your statement you say in 29

01:32:05 your statement you say in 29 I called various people including Nadia Chu care from flat 193 on the 22nd floor upstairs

01:32:16 do you remember roughly what time you called Nadia he was after - okay

01:32:28 called Nadia he was after - okay - how many times do you think he spoke to Nadia after coming into Marcia's flat I spoke to a few times a few times

01:32:38 do you remember what in any of those calls what she said to you I was just

01:32:50 calls what she said to you I was just telling them what was happening what we were doing did she say anything to you

01:33:00 she was just telling me she was in the house anything else and I was telling her what we were doing

01:33:14 to fill up the bath and she you know just covered themselves with a towel I didn't even know how to do that I saw mass you are doing it so I was just

01:33:25 mass you are doing it so I was just telling them what to do right did not you tell you what advice they had received in their flat from the emergency services yeah but I found the

01:33:38 emergency services yeah but I found the text message and the voice message after I didn't even know that she was calling me sure during your calls that you did

01:33:49 me sure during your calls that you did have with her do you remember her telling you what advice she'd received or when I was there dude not while you were on the phone to her okay do you remember roughly what time

01:34:01 okay do you remember roughly what time well let me ask you this way do you remember roughly how long before you finally made it out of the gamers is flat do you call that you spoke to Nadia

01:34:16 just before we went up just before you went out

01:34:23 and can you remember anything about that well you have a just take a mess

01:34:57 and miss Kevin let's go would you like to take him we could take a break

01:35:03 sticker take some time finding was very

01:35:15 sticker take some time finding was very difficult and very distressing to possibly we could move on well I'm gonna slowly move on that focus the questions are what you really need help

01:35:36 I'm sorry to ask you this these questions are important to some of the families that's led us to the inquiry and we just want to see how we we go if

01:35:48 and we just want to see how we we go if it's difficult understand in that last conversation that you had with Nadia do you remember what she said to you yeah as I said I was instructing her and I

01:36:02 as I said I was instructing her and I was telling her what we gonna do and I told her to fill up the bath and just you know so the towel and just cover everyone as I was saying that her she passed me to her husband to explain to

01:36:14 passed me to her husband to explain to him and I was telling him and when I told him what to do and he was crying that was the last conversation I had

01:36:26 that was the last conversation I had thank you

01:36:30 now go back to your statement page six of the statement paragraph 31 you you

01:36:46 of the statement paragraph 31 you you say somewhere around this time somewhere between 2:30 a.m. and 3:00 a.m.

01:36:54 Marcia's bedroom caught fire from the outside the flames had come in from outside of the tower into his bedroom I did not see this but heard from him

01:37:07 first of all you put the time at 2:30 to 3:00 a.m. miss Geller Mexico how do you how do you reckon that how do you get that time frame

01:37:27 I'm not sure

01:37:32 and now we may be able to have a be able to help you a bit with Marcia's own calls and to see whether that fits of a time frame Kyle so the witness please to be shown lfb

01:37:44 so the witness please to be shown lfb 672

01:37:55 and this is a transcript of marcio's second 999 call timed at o2 46:58 and

01:38:09 second 999 call timed at o2 46:58 and miss governor's could you think we can work that out because of the tiny numbers at the top the second group of numbers from the right says oh two four six five eight whether little red have

01:38:20 six five eight whether little red have the little red dot is it's about quarter to 3:00 a.m. and he makes a call and says I'm still waiting at flat 183 you

01:38:31 says I'm still waiting at flat 183 you see that it started the transcript and the fires already reached us okay so whereas the fire is it in your flat no it's in the flat next door and it's already coming through the windows so

01:38:43 already coming through the windows so that's what he says my question is do you remember Marcio making a call to 999 and saying those things did I make the phone call

01:38:54 those things did I make the phone call didn't know do you remember him making the phone call and saying those things did you hear him saying that you don't know okay now he says and obviously we're going to look at at this with him

01:39:06 we're going to look at at this with him because he's going to give evidence later this week he says that he made this call after two failed attempts to leave the flat so you tried to get out

01:39:17 leave the flat so you tried to get out twice before he makes this call at about quarter to three yep is that how you recall it that you had to call two attempts to leave before about 2:45 yeah

01:39:31 attempts to leave before about 2:45 yeah we tried to get out twice maybe that was that time I'm not I'm not quite sure right okay now leave that leave the call

01:39:45 right okay now leave that leave the call and get back to paragraph 32 with your statement on page six

01:39:52 and you say

01:39:59 you say there he'd you decided to escape you all headed to the front door of their flat when we open the front door

01:40:10 their flat when we open the front door of the flat we were hit by thick black smoke I can't remember whether there was a lot of heat for the safe thick we couldn't see our hands in front of our faces

01:40:17 faces we were already coughing from the smoke inside the flat but it was much worse than me open the door as we open the front door the smoke bellowed into the flat it took three attempts of opening the door then retreating in before we

01:40:28 the door then retreating in before we decided to go for it now I've read all of that to you to give you the full context over what period of time did you

01:40:40 context over what period of time did you open the door three times before finally going out do you think

01:40:55 okay did all of those attempts to leave happen after he told you that the fire had spread into his bedroom yep do you

01:41:09 had spread into his bedroom yep do you remember but before you finally did go whether Marcio gomez made any more calls tonight no nine no I think at that point

01:41:23 tonight no nine no I think at that point we got out I think those okay

01:41:32 do you remember that when you did finally go for it as he put it well the Marcia was on the phone to nine nine nine at that stage Adachi

01:41:45 nine nine at that stage Adachi you don't remember okay just just to be to give you the context we have him making a final nine nine nine call at

01:41:56 making a final nine nine nine call at 3:25 forty thirties as he's leaving the flat and we were all crossing the lobby and going into the stairs but you don't

01:42:07 and going into the stairs but you don't remember him making that call or being on the phone right okay so what I'm going to ask any questions about that do you remember him saying all put towels over your heads hold hands and go yep

01:42:22 now you say in paragraphs 33 and 34 the 33 we left in a line you say with me at the front followed by Andrea and then the three children and Marcia in that

01:42:36 the three children and Marcia in that order

01:42:45 did have had you to remember how far Marcia was behind you or behind the group we were six of us or we were

01:42:57 group we were six of us or we were following I was leading I saw they were behind me right yes see when okay so you went out into the smoke did you have a

01:43:08 went out into the smoke did you have a towel a wet towel on your mouth and nose yep and your daughter the same I just want to ask you about the smoke density at the time you say that it was thick

01:43:19 at the time you say that it was thick black smoke I'm going to show you a very short video clip and but but before I do I know I know you're you you're okay to

01:43:32 I know I know you're you you're okay to see this but before I do mr. chairman this may feels prestressing to some people I'll just explain what it is it is a 30-second video taken by Marcia Gomez whilst inside his flat at his

01:43:45 Gomez whilst inside his flat at his front door and he opens the front door and smoke comes billowing in and the purpose of my asking them the witness this question is to ask her to look at the video and see the smoke and offer

01:43:56 the video and see the smoke and offer some exercise of comparison a visual comparison that's the point of it so I've just I'm essentially giving a warning if people are going to find this

01:44:07 warning if people are going to find this video distressing as well they might because it will be may bring back memories of smoke on the night and then they should either leave the room now or should avert themselves so I'm going to just allow get some second to go but I

01:44:20 just allow get some second to go but I should also say that the the video has audio on it of people in the flat talking but I think it's fair to say that the voices one can hear are the witnesses for the most part and from

01:44:33 witnesses for the most part and from what you said earlier to do I understand that the witness is aware of what it should

01:44:37 should is even asked you yes you understand what mr. Minnick wants to show you yes you're willing to see thank you yes yes mr. chairman we've prepared that it's

01:44:49 mr. chairman we've prepared that it's good the ground today well I think there's been enough time for anyone to leave who wants to leave say can i Zen be now I then ask for Marcia's video at iws 6 to 3 to be shown and what I get to

01:45:03 iws 6 to 3 to be shown and what I get to do I need a right 30 30 seconds so I'm just going to play it to fully and then ask you some questions about it so you can please can it please be played

01:45:44 now but my first question is when you see Marcia open the door and see the black smoke we can get back to it how

01:45:56 black smoke we can get back to it how does that smoke that thickness and color compared with the smoke that you eventually went out into when you all finally left the flat it's the same thing the same right and in the in the

01:46:12 thing the same right and in the in the or in the in the video do we can also see this but do you remember whether at that time there was smoke coming in under the door even when it was closed

01:46:23 under the door even when it was closed yeah right and we can hear in the background the sound of a shower maybe people didn't pick that up I'm happy to

01:46:35 people didn't pick that up I'm happy to play it again do you remember that the shower was going yep and do you know why Marcio Gomez had the shower gang there's a

01:46:49 Gomez had the shower gang there's a reason you've done it but I think probably maybe you know later on you might not have the water so he was just filling it up in order to put the towel

01:47:03 filling it up in order to put the towel you know to cover off stuff and to get out right yeah I think he says he himself says that he did saved in order to reduce the smoke yet that as well yeah yeah yeah when you got out into the

01:47:16 yeah yeah yeah when you got out into the lobby how far in front of you could you see

01:47:24 you can't see nothing you couldn't see the lights on the wall no I think you led the way to the stairs staying in front how did you find your way to the stairs I know my way out I always take

01:47:39 stairs I know my way out I always take the stairs so I know which way which way to go right when you got to the staircase door do you remember whether it was closed wood or whether it was open it was

01:47:50 wood or whether it was open it was closed is closed when you push the stair door open it's right let me just before you get to the stairs when you come out into the lobby do you remember hearing

01:48:02 into the lobby do you remember hearing any noise

01:48:09 there was a lot of noises but I can't remember why it was but there was a lot of noise a lot right you told us earlier that when you come from your flat to

01:48:21 that when you come from your flat to Marcia's flat you'd heard a high noise again like something you'd never heard before could you still hear that noise the same thing yep same thing was it the same noise louder louder it was it was

01:48:34 same noise louder louder it was it was louder it okay did you notice any any change in temperature between Marcia's flat and the communal lobby the lobby was hot I

01:48:52 don't remember in the lobby but when I was taking the stairs I remember the heat here right okay so you get into the stairs at the moment you get into the stairs how is the smoke in the stairs

01:49:04 stairs how is the smoke in the stairs the same thing very thick the same and you described at paragraph 34 to summarize that you say there was water on the floor on the stairs did he feel

01:49:16 on the floor on the stairs did he feel water on the stairs as soon as you came into the stairs yeah he did and at 37 I could just ask you to look at that you say I was finding it hard to breathe going down the stairs I'm sorry I'll

01:49:29 going down the stairs I'm sorry I'll wait for it to come up on the screen her 37 top of page 8 you say I was finding it hard to breathe going down the stairs and the temperature was very hot like

01:49:40 and the temperature was very hot like you were in a very hot sauna all the way as we traveled down the stairs was that sauna like Heat something you

01:49:51 sauna like Heat something you experienced as soon as you got into the stairs or was it some way down no soon as I get to disperse really yeah okay and as you went down did it change he

01:50:04 and as you went down did it change he was getting water you're getting hotter how did the temperature when he went into the stairs compared with the lobby you just come out of because to come up

01:50:17 you just come out of because to come up from his house to go to the lobby was just was just running we just you know so I didn't feel that as I was going down so that's when I felt it okay yeah Did you touch the handrail yep how did

01:50:30 Did you touch the handrail yep how did you find it as I say I know where it is sorry it's bad question maybe I'll sleep okay

01:50:37 okay wait when you touch the handrail what did it what did it feel like well if this temperature feel like it was okay I don't feel no hits on that right you

01:50:51 don't feel no hits on that right you didn't think we didn't find that hot the handrail was hot itself I don't remember that okay were you able to hold on to it as you went down yeah then then again

01:51:02 as you went down yeah then then again you are confused you are lost so you wouldn't feel it on your way down the stairs do you remember whether you saw any any doors two stairs

01:51:13 any any doors two stairs open which door the stairwell doors into lobbies did you see any of those open the file exists you mean yes no wasn't I

01:51:26 the file exists you mean yes no wasn't I open it sorry let me stay on your way down you went past its doors which would lead into lobbies on other floors do you remember whether when you pass them any of them were open it was still

01:51:38 them any of them were open it was still open because they were following me so they they were holding the door until we go down they say once you've left your floor floor 21 and it started to come

01:51:49 floor floor 21 and it started to come down the stairway yeah down the building do you remember when whether when you passed other stair doors which led into lower lobbies and lower levels any of those

01:52:01 lobbies and lower levels any of those doors were opened yeah I don't remember I didn't see one

01:52:07 and a paragraph 36 of your statement you you say you found it very hard to breathe going down the stairs and you explained that the tea towel was making it harder to breathe properly

01:52:20 it harder to breathe properly can you did you feel the effects of smoke inhalation as you were going down what were those effects it was too much smoke and as I was going down and so

01:52:32 smoke and as I was going down and so while I was calling my daughter's name and I was inhaling more so that was making a difficulties right did you you you were able to shout out where you you're shorting yep

01:52:44 you're shorting yep could you get enough air into your lungs in order to be able to shout i'll struggling but still i was shouting so that my daughter can hear me did you hear marcia shouting yeah it was

01:52:59 did you hear marcia shouting yeah it was there were you always in earshot of marcia could you always hear him yeah but at some point i didn't hear them so okay you need can you describe what

01:53:12 okay you need can you describe what other effects you were feeling as you were going down the stairs yeah I was feeling dizziness and I thought I was calab I was gonna collapse I was just pushing myself to get out right did you

01:53:28 pushing myself to get out right did you did you feel sick as in No

01:53:40 do you remember and then this is its difficult piece it all together do you remember whether there were any moments during your descent down the stairs when it was easier to breathe

01:53:53 stairs when it was easier to breathe than at other times

01:53:58 yeah I found it easy when I get down which is I'm not sure which is if either was first floor a second floor thus when I had the fresh air there was more smoke there so but it was the end

01:54:13 more smoke there so but it was the end and I think in your statement at paragraph 41 you say the black smoke was very thick all the way down it was not until I reached the second or first

01:54:24 until I reached the second or first floor that the smoke was clearer did you notice that it was the second or first floor and could you tell them it was the

01:54:36 floor and could you tell them it was the second or first floor when you've got sure that's why I'm not sure at any point in your descent down the stairs

01:54:48 point in your descent down the stairs did you see any lights at all when I was going down yes did you pass anybody the paragraph 43 of your statement you say

01:55:01 paragraph 43 of your statement you say the top of page 9 when I reached the ground floor I saw a fireman and looked behind me and saw only Andrea and a child I could not see the other children all Marcio

01:55:19 when you've got to the ground floor where where was Andrea and the other child do you remember where they were you know they came right after me there was a bench I remember and where she sat

01:55:34 was a bench I remember and where she sat down and but she was lost and the little one she came and she sat next to her

01:55:42 till I tell the firefighter when I found him and I think you say that you saw

01:55:54 him and I think you say that you saw these firefighters on the ground floor was this the first time you'd seen any firefighters at all during between leaving the flat and getting to the getting to the ground floor yeah which is I'm not sure either first floor

01:56:06 is I'm not sure either first floor second floor that's where I saw them I'm not sure which floor it is

01:56:17 and then in paragraph 45 you say you felt relieved you escaped that you say I realized that my daughter was not in the line anymore and was not following down

01:56:28 line anymore and was not following down the stairs and then I think you explained in paragraph 46 that you told the fireman and he was shocked that

01:56:41 the fireman and he was shocked that you've made it down from the 21st floor and then promised that he'd go back and save your daughter do you know what he did next hadn't what did that farman do

01:56:55 did next hadn't what did that farman do next did you see what he went and did next yeah because I was telling him that I was gonna go back to get my daughter and he refused to let me back to the tower and they say to me you need to get

01:57:07 tower and they say to me you need to get out you need to get out as I said he promised that he was gonna go and bring her back that's when they took me out because I was not wearing issues so they

01:57:19 because I was not wearing issues so they just lift me out and they took me out from the building did you see where Andrea and her daughter were saying her younger daughter were taken yeah as I

01:57:31 younger daughter were taken yeah as I told her the firefighter he told the other one and they came they took them as well did you see them after you left the building

01:57:47 and on page 10 I think you say that the paragraph 50 you went to the Kensington Sports Center they took my blood pressure tested my breathing and checked my general well-being who did that who did those tests I mean

01:58:07 who did that who did those tests I mean there were there a lot of professional people which is from hospitals and all that there was a lot of ambulance there so I assume it's one of them okay do you refer to a nurse called Simone Williams

01:58:19 refer to a nurse called Simone Williams yep

01:58:20 yep the triage area she was not on duty that night that came along do you remember anybody else who treated you I don't okay did anybody recommend

01:58:31 you I don't okay did anybody recommend that you be taken to hospital for treatment

01:58:41 and you think I want to say that you were then moved to the Christian Center where where people were going where they couldn't find loved ones do you know why you were moved there I don't remember

01:58:53 you were moved there I don't remember why because I was confused you know I lost my daughter at that point so whatever they were taking me I was just going like you know if you go to

01:59:07 going like you know if you go to paragraph 56 you say whilst in the Christian Center as page 11 you say whilst in the Christian Center Marcia Gomez his sister or sister-in-law found

01:59:19 Gomez his sister or sister-in-law found me and told me that my daughter had been taken to a hospital and then in power of 57 I was told that my child was at King's College Hospital do you remember

01:59:34 King's College Hospital do you remember who told you she'd been taken to Kings College Hospital as I said Marcia's sister or sister who I'm not sure right

01:59:45 sure right she knows that they've been taking into that hospital so that's she thought l'oréal from I've been taking there as well I see okay and you've done you then

01:59:57 well I see okay and you've done you then described in detail in your statement your friends took you to King's College Hospital and then Chelsea and Westminster Hospital to look for your daughter and then is this right on the way to Chelsea and Westminster your ill

02:00:09 way to Chelsea and Westminster your ill condition deteriorated so you went to the A&E it's at Mary's Paddington and then you were admitted there yep and do you remember roughly what time you got

02:00:21 you remember roughly what time you got treatment after Mary's Paddington I think it was after 6 o'clock and I think you then say paragraph 66 of your statement if you just go to that

02:00:36 after describing your experience acts and marries you say you were shown a photo I looked at the photo you said and immediately recognized that the photo

02:00:48 immediately recognized that the photo was of my daughter in the photo there were lots of tubes coming out of her and she was in a hospital bed it was approximately just before 6 p.m. when I saw the photo just to be clear was this

02:01:01 saw the photo just to be clear was this apse of Mary's Paddington yep so your daughter was admitted to some areas Paddington without your knowledge is that right and then you only discovered it because you had been

02:01:12 discovered it because you had been admitted whilst on the way to look for her at a different Hospital actually she was in another hospital as well and then they took her from another hospital to say Mary suppose oh I see which other hospital was she in first I'm not quite

02:01:24 hospital was she in first I'm not quite sure but I know that they took on our the hospital ok miss Karen mescal you'll be glad to hear that I've come to the end of my my main questions mr. chairman would it be convenient now to have a

02:01:36 would it be convenient now to have a short the comfortably short break just to make sure that I've covered everything I need to cover well let's give him the school although most immediate thinks he's covered all the questions he he needs a moment just to check that so we're going to rise for 5

02:01:48 check that so we're going to rise for 5 minutes to give him a chance to do that all right so don't talk to anyone about your evidence when you're out of the room please you like to go with you sure we'll come back at 10 past 4:00

02:01:59 we'll come back at 10 past 4:00 thank you very much

02:02:10 ten past four please

02:03:47 you

02:07:09 you

02:08:29 yes mr. minutes a few questions I just saw one just one or two mr. chairman yes if we could just have fun let's give them let's go back please

02:08:56 wherever the mr. millet has a few more questions you'll see how we get off yesterday in the sky let's go thank you for coming back I do have one or two further questions can I just start by asking you to look at paragraph 44 or 46

02:09:08 asking you to look at paragraph 44 or 46 of your statement on page 9 and the paragraph 46 towards the bottom you say

02:09:23 paragraph 46 towards the bottom you say my daughter and one of Marcia's daughters were discovered by Furman unconscious on the stairs and they were carried down out of the tower I owe everything to the brave firefighter who risked his own life in that inferno to

02:09:35 risked his own life in that inferno to save my daughter words can never express my gratitude

02:09:42 Canada's ask you when did you first discover that a firefighter had saved your daughter I've been told by someone

02:09:55 your daughter I've been told by someone that I can't remember do you know which which firefighter it was

02:10:06 yeah later on I did find out I did I forgot his name okay so you did make I'm not sure who told me but I did someone told me but I can't as I say I can't

02:10:18 told me but I can't as I say I can't remember finally do you have well did you have a friend at the time of the fire called Thomas Etienne yep

02:10:31 fire called Thomas Etienne yep do you remember speaking to him on the night of the fire yep did you speak to him from the gamera's his flat yep do you remember whether it was him who

02:10:45 do you remember whether it was him who it was he to whom you spoke while you were speaking to when the FAMAS passed to the firefighter who you then spoke to you know he wasn't him it wasn't him okay

02:10:55 okay did you also speak to Southland shoe care during that night and do you remember anything of the conversations

02:11:06 remember anything of the conversations you had with her I was the one who called her to let her know there's a fire in the building at the time she was not in the building no it was me who call her and tell her

02:11:18 no it was me who call her and tell her about the news do you do you remember whether it was her who handed her phone to the firefighter for you to speak to yeah right

02:11:29 yeah right discover Alaska I've come to the end of my my questions except one my final question to you is is this apart from the to Britain witness statements that

02:11:40 the to Britain witness statements that you've given to the inquiry and apart from the evidence that you've given to the Chairman today is there anything else about what you heard or saw or smelt or felt on the night of the fire

02:11:53 smelt or felt on the night of the fire itself that you would wish to beam chairman to no can you repeat that please yeah of course apart from your

02:12:04 please yeah of course apart from your written evidence your - witness statements apart from the evidence that you've given to us today is there anything else about what you saw on the night felt on the night heard smelt your

02:12:16 night felt on the night heard smelt your experience is on the night of the fire that you think it's important for the Chairman to know about

02:12:31 the only thing I can say is I hope he's not gonna happen again to anyone I don't want anyone to go through what we've been through it's just I can't explain

02:12:49 not miss Gerber mescal it just remains for me to thank you very much for coming here and answering my questions and assisting the inquiry with our investigations were extremely grateful

02:13:00 investigations were extremely grateful to you so thank you very much indeed but I need one issue I have I have one issue that I want to raise if you don't mind I

02:13:11 that I want to raise if you don't mind I was reading a statement about a few days ago someone the person I know she was saying that she was living with me and

02:13:23 saying that she was living with me and that person I know her really well and but she was not living in my house at the time of the fire I know her too

02:13:36 at the time of the fire I know her too two months before the fire so after that she never lived in my house she was not in my house thank you let you know thank you for clarifying

02:13:47 you for clarifying thank you well I'd like to thank you very much for coming to give your evidence there's obviously a terrible ordeal and and difficult for you to come and talk about it and I think we will

02:13:58 and talk about it and I think we will understand how much courage it's taken for you to be here to tell us what you experienced your evidence will be very useful to us and we're very grateful to you for coming thank you thank you very

02:14:09 you for coming thank you thank you very much all right well now you're free to go if you'd like to give the usher sure

02:14:29 yes just a minute well mr. chairman keen I am too used to at 12 minutes yes equally knocking to rush the reading of

02:14:40 equally knocking to rush the reading of any of these statements but I would like to would like to do what I can with the remaining time of the day given not least that these statements have been published in advance as do to be read

02:14:53 published in advance as do to be read today let's see how you get on sure why should we do that yes the next statement that I would read into the record is the

02:15:04 that I would read into the record is the statement of Nina Maz row dated 5th of June 2018 and that is referenced iws Quinn tuple zero seven

02:15:16 referenced iws Quinn tuple zero seven nine two

02:15:27 which we just pause a second because I think it may be that people want to leave yes just have an opportunity without disturbing us

02:15:56 yes Lexi and she is the first of a number of residents of testet and Walker walk way connected with Granville tower yes which was evacuated on the night morning of the 14th of June 2017 and as

02:16:10 morning of the 14th of June 2017 and as I say I start with Nina Monroe statement I WS 7 9 2 dated the 5th of June 2018 which comes with a statement of truth over a signature at page 13 in summary

02:16:28 over a signature at page 13 in summary mrs. Monroe lived a tested and walk since 1992 having moved to her current property in 1996 and at the time of the

02:16:39 property in 1996 and at the time of the fire she occupied that property with her four children they were all at home on the night of the fire and she describes her experiences on the night of the fire paragraphs 7 onwards

02:16:52 night of the fire paragraphs 7 onwards and describes how she was woken up by the sounds of screams and shouts from paragraph 8 onwards and at paragraph 10 she says my daughter pointed out blue

02:17:05 she says my daughter pointed out blue flames at the top of the tower I saw them too but at first I did not understand the significance then my daughter explained it mum there's blue flames that means there's gas the blue

02:17:16 flames that means there's gas the blue flames were moving and rippling like a waterfall but they were contained near the top of the building and were not moving further down while they were standing there I also saw orange flames suddenly shoot up vertically along the

02:17:28 suddenly shoot up vertically along the tower the flame is moved so fast it was as though petrol had been poured down the side of the building I have never seen anything like it before it was like something out of a film when the flame suddenly shot up I heard a collective

02:17:40 suddenly shot up I heard a collective scream of horror there was a sudden roar of screaming from the people watching there were massive black burning clumps of insulation falling from the building and floating down parts of the cladding

02:17:52 and floating down parts of the cladding was bloating and falling off the building other sections of the cladding was melting down the side of the building my daughter said it looked like there was molten lava on the building the air was thick with the debris I

02:18:05 the air was thick with the debris I could see very dark grey blacks the smoke was strange I didn't quite know how to describe it it was like the smoke was magnetized to the building the smoke was swirling within and very close

02:18:17 smoke was swirling within and very close around the building it was not billowing out from the building while rising up as he would expect and then she goes on a paragraph 19 to say I could feel the

02:18:31 paragraph 19 to say I could feel the heat from where I was standing on Grenfell walk I could not imagine how hot it must have felt closer to the tower or inside the tower eventually I realized that the helicopters were not there to pour water

02:18:42 helicopters were not there to pour water on the building that slow realization was heartbreaking I cannot imagine the agony of that realization for the people inside the building he were trying to signal for rescue and then she describes

02:18:54 signal for rescue and then she describes a paragraph 20 observing a man climbing out of the window on the 12th or 13th floor with a small child on his back and you've heard evidence about that that's

02:19:05 you've heard evidence about that that's all even Rosemarie and then she describes the rescue from the fourth floor of the tower and you've heard about that as well and then at paragraph 25 she says you could see that this fire

02:19:19 25 she says you could see that this fire was completely different from the to the fires which had been in grenfell tower before when I first went out on Grenville walk I'd heard firefighters telling people to remain in their flat so that they were going to go in and get them within a few minutes there was a

02:19:31 them within a few minutes there was a firefighter at the base of the tower with a megaphone he was telling the people in the tower if you can leave safely then get out now leave now I cannot forget the look of sheer horror despair the hopelessness on the faces of

02:19:44 despair the hopelessness on the faces of the firefighters who were watching the fire unfold it was shocking after I saw their faces it was instinctual I knew I had to go and get my kids out I didn't even know if

02:19:55 my kids out I didn't even know if Grenville tower was going to continue to stand up for much longer I was worried about my children's safety I ran back into our home it was now about 2:00 a.m. that the children were dressed but still

02:20:06 that the children were dressed but still half asleep another child had stayed asleep through it all so I woke him up and got him dressed I told the kids that there was a fire and that it was really bad I grabbed our passports and they

02:20:17 bad I grabbed our passports and they grabbed my wallet with all my card in as we were leaving the police came thundering through our block they were banging on doors and shouting that we needed to evacuate and that she describes in paragraph 27 onwards her

02:20:28 describes in paragraph 27 onwards her evacuations and I think that's all I need to read from the statement and like all statements that I'm reading into the record mr. chairman it will stand in its entirety as evidence before the inquiry

02:20:39 entirety as evidence before the inquiry and be taken into account accordingly the next statement is from Benazir Lashari another walkway resident also

02:20:50 Lashari another walkway resident also tested and walk that's iws 643 when to call zero six four three might it be six

02:21:02 call zero six four three might it be six three four it might be it is six three four

02:21:26 there it is and this is a statement dated the first of June from Venezuela sherry with a statement of truth of page 8 and she in summary has lived with her

02:21:43 8 and she in summary has lived with her family in Chesterton walk since 1983 on the night of the fire she was at home with her two children her partner Damon her parents her brother and her

02:21:55 her parents her brother and her sister-in-law and she explains at paragraph 16 how she heard the Smashing of windows from the fire and she says

02:22:06 of windows from the fire and she says picking it up on page three of iws six three four I could hear the Smashing of windows from the fire I heard people still screaming for help everyone downstairs was quiet the noise was

02:22:18 downstairs was quiet the noise was coming from the tower people outside was shocked and didn't know what to do I was standing in the same position at the front of the tower and then came back in to check on my kids the front door of our walkway was about ten feet from the

02:22:30 our walkway was about ten feet from the entrance of the tower so it was very close and then at 21 in particular mr. chairman she describes in detail how the fire has moved she says at around 2:00

02:22:41 fire has moved she says at around 2:00 a.m. the fire had traveled around the back of the tower and came to the left of me it was now on the side of Latimer road underground station and the school next to the tower I remember looking up at the tower and I could see a shadow in

02:22:53 at the tower and I could see a shadow in the window and flames I saw and could smell smoke I could hear cracking in the windows from the tower smashing I could see the cladding falling off fire flames were falling down I was still standing at the

02:23:05 falling down I was still standing at the front of the tower but it all got all the way around I got really panicky where I stood was the last bit to catch fire

02:23:17 and she explains also in some detail about the aftermath of the fire and her friends and friends of her family Phil in the tower from paragraph 29 onwards

02:23:29 in the tower from paragraph 29 onwards and like all statements ms mushy Restatement will stand as evidence in the record in its entirety and be taken into account in full finally mr. Chairman I come to this statement of

02:23:40 Chairman I come to this statement of mush tacna sherry who is been Azalea shuri's father that is I WS 6 and 0 3 I WS 6 0 3 it's dated the 5th of June 2018

02:23:56 WS 6 0 3 it's dated the 5th of June 2018 and it stands with a statement of truth on page 7 over a signature on that page and he was as he describes at paragraph

02:24:07 and he was as he describes at paragraph 6 a gentleman extremely well known in the local community he was a Labour Party councillor for 18 years between

02:24:18 Party councillor for 18 years between 1992 and 2010 was involved in the Lancaster West residents association and the estate management board he was deputy mayor in 2003 to 4 as part of the

02:24:29 deputy mayor in 2003 to 4 as part of the Casey TMO from 1994 to the 2000s and was very well known to people in the area and I just want to read just a couple of

02:24:42 and I just want to read just a couple of paragraphs in the middle of the part of the statement where he deals with the night of the 4th of June which starts at paragraph 7 on page 2 and this is paragraph 14 on page 4 he says I could

02:24:56 paragraph 14 on page 4 he says I could see after 1:30 to 2:00 a.m. that the fire was really bad I remember thinking would anyone get out of this tower alive the families of residents inside the tower were gathered outside there was

02:25:08 tower were gathered outside there was nothing to speak about we said 3 to 4 words to one another like oh my god and what is happening I felt very disturbed by what I could see and unhappy I was just standing there watching I could see

02:25:20 just standing there watching I could see and hear people from the tower shouting help and I could see people in the windows waving their hands to get attention I saw these people's faces they had opened their windows and were way

02:25:31 way clothes I saw a young black man in his thirties tie a bedsheet to a window and tried to come down the tower I didn't see what happened to him after that I saw at our resident I know called muna

02:25:42 saw at our resident I know called muna she rushed in to test it and walk around two o'clock with her family she lived in the tower with her husband and three children her mother and brothers lived opposite us her children were very distraught Munna is a very close friend

02:25:54 distraught Munna is a very close friend to my daughter and my wife and her children play so that's right a close friend to my daughter and my wife and her children play with my grandchildren by the the tower by this time was a

02:26:05 by the the tower by this time was a light and it looked like a fireball I was fearful of the building collapsing I was worried about our safety and what would happen to our flat if this happened then he goes on to describe debris falling down and being moved

02:26:17 debris falling down and being moved between 2:30 and 3 o'clock by the emergency services that's paragraph 18 and the aftermath pat-pat part starts at paragraph 20 and runs to paragraph 23 and he also describes the impact of the

02:26:31 and he also describes the impact of the fire on him and the community and friends of his in the tower who died and like all these statements mr. chairman mr. Linares will also stand as evidence

02:26:42 mr. Linares will also stand as evidence to the inquiry and be taken into account in its entirety yes thank you well as in all other cases we're very grateful for those you've made these statements for taking the time and trouble to do so yes and as you say they will go into the

02:26:55 and as you say they will go into the inquiry record and form part of the evidence that the inquiry takes into account quickly thank you very much and mr. chairman that takes us neatly to exactly 4:30 and without any rush at all

02:27:09 exactly 4:30 and without any rush at all if I may say okay I hope not mr. chairman are in grave would say we continue tomorrow with more evidence and for that you will have mr. Rawat for the morning and maybe me in the afternoon

02:27:22 morning and maybe me in the afternoon right well thank you very much we break there and resume at 10 o'clock tomorrow morning please thank you

02:27:30 thank you [Music]