Evidence from BSRs (8 October 2018 Pt 1 of 2)

8 October 2018 · Nadia Jafari - Survivor (Flat 86), Counsel to the Inquiry · 2:02:38
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Nadia Jafari gives evidence about her family's flat 86 on floor 11. Describes problems with new windows that wouldn't close properly, gaps where wind and rain came in, and front door that wasn't self-closing. Her father Ali Yawar Jafari (82, with heart problems) died in the fire. Describes seeing sparks from window before fire reached their floor.

Key moments

Full transcript

00:00:00 good morning everyone welcome to today's hearing at which we're going to hear some more evidence from those who were in the tower of the time and Fire yes mr. Ilic mr. chairman good morning I'm

00:00:13 mr. Ilic mr. chairman good morning I'm going to invite mr. bill Elroy out to call the next witness before I do there is a correction to the record that I must make on Thursday morning I read the witness statement of

00:00:24 morning I read the witness statement of mr. Saki Ahmed into the record and he is the son of mr. Shahid and mrs. syed ahmed or flat 156 Grenfell tower her

00:00:35 ahmed or flat 156 Grenfell tower her page 61 of the transcript i said that mr. Zakir Ahmed lived with his parents at Granville Tower until 2012 that was an error I should have said that he

00:00:47 an error I should have said that he lived there until April 2015 as his statement makes clear that was my personal error mr. chairman and I apologize sincerely to the armored family for it I know how much work has

00:01:00 family for it I know how much work has gone in to these statements and those who have provided them are entitled to have their evidence presented accurately so I wish that to be recorded formally in the record thank you very much I

00:01:12 in the record thank you very much I shall now invite mr. Rawat to call the next witness thank you yes good morning mr. chairman can I call please Nadia jafari good

00:02:05 [Music] I swear the evidence I shall give

00:02:13 we'll be the truth the whole truth thank you very much

00:02:25 you very much sit down make yourself comfortable and then mr. rubber will have some questions right yes mr. Raman thank you sir good morning mr. berry can I begin by

00:02:38 good morning mr. berry can I begin by asking you to give the inquiry with your full name please my name is Nadia Jafari first of all I'd like to thank you not only for providing

00:02:50 like to thank you not only for providing a written statement to the inquiry but also for coming here today to give evidence to us your help is very much appreciated we all understand that it

00:03:01 appreciated we all understand that it would be very difficult for you to have to go back to the heartbreaking events of that night there is no rush and if at any time you would like a break please

00:03:12 any time you would like a break please let us know and we will stop if I ask you a question which you don't understand then please tell me and I'll try and ask you the question in a different way as with everyone from the

00:03:27 different way as with everyone from the tower who's coming to give evidence in the next few days and weeks you've confirmed that your evidence will be limited to phase one of the inquiry and that means that my questions today we'll

00:03:39 that means that my questions today we'll focus on the night of the fire I won't be asking you about what the inquiry is called

00:03:45 called phase two issues right could we please have the first page of your statement which is iws five zeros six eight three one mr. Farah if I explain this is the

00:04:00 one mr. Farah if I explain this is the first page of the statement that you've made for the inquiry you can see that it's come up on the monitor that's on the table but it's also on the large screen that you see there if you're more

00:04:11 screen that you see there if you're more comfortable with paper you will also find a copy of the statement in the bundle in front of you that's that tab one I think you've already got it yes thank you if we go to the last page of

00:04:24 thank you if we go to the last page of that statement which is page 9 please we can see that the statements date of the

00:04:36 can see that the statements date of the first of June 2018 and it's signed can you confirm please that that is your signature oh yes have you had a chance

00:04:47 signature oh yes have you had a chance to go through your statement recently and are the contents of the statement true

00:04:53 true yes except there are paragraph 5 days I mistake all right well let's bring up paragraph 5 please that's on page 2

00:05:15 the paragraph concerns our problems with the windows and we can see there that you you say we complained many times to Notting Hill and then you continue each time they would come and would fix it

00:05:27 time they would come and would fix it for that day but then they would break again you could hear everything outside is that what correction would you like to make to paragraph five we may complain to you nothing here but the

00:05:39 complain to you nothing here but the windows responsibility was TMO not nothing here so when you refer there to each time they is TMO so you're referring when you say they you're

00:05:51 referring when you say they you're referring to the TMO is that right yep thank you well subject to that correction are the contents of your statement true yes before we go on and

00:06:04 statement true yes before we go on and look further at the statement I need to just put your exhibit into the record and that's at it's your exhibit nj1 it's that I WS five zeros six eight one and

00:06:19 that I WS five zeros six eight one and that's a plan that shows your family home in the tower you should have that at the next tab

00:06:31 mr. chairman before I continue can I also give a general warning to those present today we are going to be looking at a number of CCTV Stills and also at other photographs taken after the fire I

00:06:43 other photographs taken after the fire I will give a specific warning when we get to the image is concerned but I want to mention it now because we're aware that images of this sort can be distressing d'azyr

00:06:54 d'azyr Thank You mr. fari let's go back to first page and paragraph two please

00:07:08 [Music]

00:07:14 you've explained in that paragraph that in 2017 your family home was in flat 86 of Grenville tower is that right yes and

00:07:27 of Grenville tower is that right yes and you live there with your father Ali yah wah Jafari yes your mother Fatima and your sister Maria and that

00:07:38 Fatima and your sister Maria and that was on the 11th floor wasn't it yes can you remember what year you moved into flat 86 2003 and your landlord was the

00:07:53 flat 86 2003 and your landlord was the Notting Hill Housing Association is that right yes can we look at your plan please which is iws 5 0 6 8 1 2

00:08:18 this is the outline of your flat flat 86 and it was originally a two-bedroom flat but the Notting Hill association turned it into a three-bedroom flat is that

00:08:30 it into a three-bedroom flat is that right

00:08:30 right yes and so we can see there that there was a room for your parents a room for yourself and a room for your sister Maria yes and that was and then we had the living room so if you if you wanted

00:08:42 the living room so if you if you wanted to get to the living room how would you have to how could you get into it you have to go through the kitchen and there was a sliding door in between the

00:08:53 was a sliding door in between the kitchen and the living room so you can see that there's a wall what looks like a wall between the kitchen and the living room was that it was that where the sliding door was yes and I think in

00:09:07 the sliding door was yes and I think in your statement you you explained that the that sliding door was always kept open is that right yes if you kept the door open did you have anything over the doorway to separate the kitchen from the

00:09:19 doorway to separate the kitchen from the living room yeah a curtain and we can see that from that plan that the flat

00:09:30 see that from that plan that the flat had seven windows we all know that there was a refurbishment of Grenville Tower when that refurbishment took place were all the windows replaced yes

00:09:47 can we go back then to your statement I WS five zeros six eight three page two and paragraph five please

00:10:10 in your statement you've mentioned that your family had problems with two windows that didn't close properly and you discussed the first of these windows

00:10:21 you discussed the first of these windows here in paragraph five and I'll just read it out first window was in the kitchen this would not close properly and could be blown open by strong wind

00:10:32 and could be blown open by strong wind the window would fall open up to twice a day when it was windy in order to try and stop the draft in the kitchen we put a big pot in front of the main kitchen window to try and stop it

00:10:44 kitchen window to try and stop it blowing open we complained many times Notting Hill each time they and your correction was that that's the TMO would come and would fix it for that day but

00:10:55 come and would fix it for that day but then they would break again you could hear everything outside ruin came in and even the rain would come inside through the window can we just be clear because

00:11:10 the window can we just be clear because you've referred to main kitchen window was there just one kitchen window weather or was there two only one and was this window still causing problems in June 2017 yes where would the wind

00:11:26 in June 2017 yes where would the wind come in two slides so formed a big one so the wind would push part of the window open is that right yeah and then

00:11:38 window open is that right yeah and then come in that way did you ever feel the wind coming in around the window frame when it was very windy it would

00:11:52 and with the rain come in through this window in the same way because the it would be pushed open and then the rain would come in that way yes

00:12:07 what you also say in your statement is that the kitchen window had a vent in it and also a fan just so that we can be clear what were those two different

00:12:18 clear what were those two different things

00:12:20 yep so can you describe the vent to us please it was kind of like plastic middle and where was it located in the

00:12:34 middle and where was it located in the window it was just on the right side of the window top so there was a piece of plastic on the top left side of the window and what about the fan can you

00:12:47 window and what about the fan can you describe that please it was just that one too same place and was it an extractor fan yes did it have wires leading to it yes and where did those

00:12:59 leading to it yes and where did those wires go to it was connected underneath the cupboards in the kitchen and was the extractor fan actually mixed into the window itself yes can we look now at

00:13:14 window itself yes can we look now at paragraph six on the same page please

00:13:26 this is a second window that had problems and you say the second window that had problems was in the living room that window would not close properly and

00:13:38 that window would not close properly and if it was raining water would pour into the living room and we had to put towels to stop the water coming in let's go back to your plan my lws68 one page - if

00:13:58 back to your plan my lws68 one page - if we look at that do you see where Maria's bedroom was next door to the living room there's one living room window there that faces north in the same direction

00:14:09 that faces north in the same direction that Maria's window would face and then there are two living room windows that would face east in the same direction that the kitchen window would face can

00:14:22 that the kitchen window would face can you identify which window was the one that was causing the problems

00:14:30 not sight so the one that faced in the same direction as Maria's window and with that window where would the water come in just blue just below the window

00:14:43 come in just blue just below the window from underneath so when you close the window just underneath it wouldn't close properly so it would still come in through the frame would it and was that

00:14:54 through the frame would it and was that still a problem in June 2017 yeah though what only comes when it was very heavy rain and windy at that time let's go

00:15:06 rain and windy at that time let's go back again to your statement please same page I WS 5 0 6 8 3 page 2 and let's look at paragraph 7

00:15:20 the first sentence of that is used when they fitted the new windows there were big problems as they did not seem to fit properly now was this a problem with all

00:15:33 properly now was this a problem with all of the windows that was fitted or just some of them some of them and which ones had that problem had the one in the living room and the one in the kitchen and one wasn't the main bedroom in the main

00:15:46 wasn't the main bedroom in the main bedroom yep and is that your parents bedroom yes so just so that we're clear it's the two windows that we've already looked at yeah the one which let in water when it rained heavily the kitchen

00:15:59 water when it rained heavily the kitchen window and then the window and your parents bedroom yep did you have any problems because of the way these windows had been fitted

00:16:11 did you experience any drafts coming into the flat after the windows have been fitted so when you say that they

00:16:23 been fitted so when you say that they didn't seem to fit properly was there and what would what was the problem with the windows couldn't able to close there and the one in the kitchen it would come out of it is frame it would fall only

00:16:35 out of it is frame it would fall only unto you so when we try to open it it would fall onto you backwards so it would come out from its frame we had to break so it would come up from it and

00:16:46 break so it would come up from it and was it still doing that in June 2017 yes and so that's the kitchen window was that a problem with your parents window no what problem was there with your

00:16:57 no what problem was there with your parents we couldn't able to close it properly - shut it like fully hard we couldn't be able to do that and the problem with the living room window was just water coming in was it yeah what a

00:17:08 just water coming in was it yeah what a moment

00:17:10 moment so did you say water and wind yep so when it was was that what what happened when it was windy with that window we could hear sounds of win and one would come inside the room and

00:17:25 what was it only through that window that wind was coming inside the living inside the room yes

00:17:38 again now on the same page could we look please at paragraph eight

00:17:51 that paragraph and say we also had problems with our front door which should have been self closing but was not Notting Hill Housing Association was

00:18:03 not Notting Hill Housing Association was supposed to come and fix it but they didn't

00:18:06 didn't although most flat doors were changed during the refurbishment our door was not it was a heavy wooden door was not airtight before the fire we could sometimes smell other people's cooking

00:18:17 sometimes smell other people's cooking but we couldn't hear noise from other flats to shut the door properly you had to pull it very hard and my father came home he would ask why the door would be open sometimes it would look like it was

00:18:28 open sometimes it would look like it was closed not actually be closed it would be possible to push it and open it so did you know whether the door was

00:18:41 did you know whether the door was supposed to be self closing yes because I fear I don't remember when our housing officer he came and he also made the point like what the door is not closing

00:18:54 point like what the door is not closing itself so he said he will send someone to fix it and when was that when was the last time someone told you they would send someone to fix it I'm not sure which month was it but it was in 2017 so

00:19:10 which month was it but it was in 2017 so what would you have to do to make sure the door was closed properly oh we had to push it hardly and when the lock was clicked and we got confirmed like it's been closed do you remember if there

00:19:24 been closed do you remember if there were gas where there were pipes in the corridor at all outside your flat there was and did you have any concerns about those pipes me myself no but my parents

00:19:38 those pipes me myself no but my parents I'm assisted they had and what were those concerns because I think one of them was for the gas I think they changed it and they had a concerned why they are in the corridor

00:19:51 and when the refurbishment happened do you remember whether a new boiler was fitted in your flat yes and where was that boiler placed just as you enter

00:20:04 that boiler placed just as you enter inside the house in front door it was just down there

00:20:09 do you remember whether the flat had any smoke alarms in it yes and can you remember where those smoke alarms work just in front of my us room so was that

00:20:22 just in front of my us room so was that in the hallway and was that the only location of a smoke alarm yes do you remember whether the smoke alarm was working in June 2017 yes what what was

00:20:36 working in June 2017 yes what what was it that makes you say that it was working in June sometimes whenever we cook it was like kind of like smoky she would turn on

00:20:51 I want now just if I may to take you to the 13th of June than the early part of don't we look pleased at your statement

00:21:02 don't we look pleased at your statement it's page 3 paragraph 10 please

00:21:19 oh you all right go on mr. fari are you happy to continue yes

00:21:28 now you say in the first sentence that we can see on the night of the 13th of June I was at home and I was in the living room and you mentioned the time there was about 9:30 p.m. with my family

00:21:41 there was about 9:30 p.m. with my family can you tell us how did you know it was about 9:30 in the evening because it was Ramadan and it was a few minutes before breaking our fast so and that's the

00:21:55 breaking our fast so and that's the iftar meal is it yes and what you go on to say is that shortly before we could smell smoke so was it as you were as you were

00:22:07 so was it as you were as you were breaking your fast that you began to smell smoke before we checked everything in the flat to try and find what was burning but we couldn't see anything that was at that

00:22:20 couldn't see anything that was at that stage I remember that my mother was sure that something was burning it was like a wire burning smell like something plastic I checked everything but there was nothing in our flat that was causing

00:22:31 was nothing in our flat that was causing the smell my father said he felt cold so we had to close the windows and stop there but I want to ask you this please when you were checking inside your flat

00:22:43 when you were checking inside your flat did you actually see any smoke inside yes and you've described the smell as like a wire burning smell like something plastic what was it a very strong smell

00:22:58 and where about the flat where you could you were you aware of that smell all around a flat

00:23:10 did you check outside the front door the flap to see whether the smell was coming from the landing we check the front window which was the West one because

00:23:23 window which was the West one because this smell was coming from that side so it wasn't coming from the landing side

00:23:31 and when you experience the smell what were all the windows of the flat closed a few of them were open and the kitchen was closed open and then you because

00:23:45 was closed open and then you because your father felt cold that was when you then decided to close it at sunrise and were you able to find out at all where the smell was coming from did the smell

00:23:58 the smell was coming from did the smell disappear after a while or was it still there when you went to bed that night

00:24:04 and once it had disappeared can you remember how long it took to disappear

00:24:13 and once it did did you have there was no other smells or anything or any smoke or anything after that was there no

00:24:24 thank you can we on the same page please expand paragraphs 11 to 12

00:24:41 you've explained in your statement mr. fari that that night you slept in your parents room and that was because you'd had some surgery right and then you go

00:24:53 had some surgery right and then you go on to say that you went to sleep when you woke up about 12 55 when your sister Maria came into the room and said there

00:25:04 Maria came into the room and said there was a fire and you say that you remember it was this time because I called my brother Bashir around this time and I had checked my phone for the time if we

00:25:16 had checked my phone for the time if we go please to paragraph 14

00:25:28 we can see there that as soon as you say that as soon as Mira woke you up and told you there was a fire she left the room and you then looked out of the

00:25:39 room and you then looked out of the window which faces north where the school is just so that we can be clear is this the window of your parents bedroom that you were looking out of yes

00:25:50 bedroom that you were looking out of yes you say before the refurbishment I would have been able to look out of the window and look down and see things outside easily after the refurbishment I

00:26:02 easily after the refurbishment I couldn't because the windows were changed and it was hard to look out and down they were further out and now there was a big ledge so that we could not look down the side of the tower so to

00:26:13 look down the side of the tower so to look out of the window and down the tower you would have to lean out quite a bit is that right yes I could see tiny sparks which were in the air and so I realized that there was a fire again

00:26:28 realized that there was a fire again just so that we can be clear were you seeing these these was tiny sparks that you can see from your parents bedroom window yes could you see any smoke at this time did you have any idea of where

00:26:45 this time did you have any idea of where there might be a fire and was your call to your brother Bashir before or after

00:26:56 to your brother Bashir before or after you saw these sparks before and what was the reason for your ringing bashir because my sister my mother they went overseas and they said there is a fire

00:27:08 overseas and they said there is a fire so if we just take that book down a little bit when Maria came in to your room to wake you did she tell you that she'd been outside the flat no she said she's going

00:27:21 outside the flat no she said she's going right so can you just tell us a little bit more about what conversation you had with your sister Maria when my sister she came to me and she said there's a fire I took her as a joke and I said to

00:27:33 fire I took her as a joke and I said to go away but later on my mom she quickly came I she say I can't see people outside and there's a fire brigade Cara's all outside and people are outside running so my mom she

00:27:44 people are outside running so my mom she said I will go outside and my sister she went with her so my mom she said to me big quick get your father come out so and this conversation happened a bit

00:27:56 and this conversation happened a bit they just come into the bedroom where you were sleeping to tell you all this and did you did you understand that what your mother and Maria were going to do

00:28:08 your mother and Maria were going to do was to leave the flat and go outside yeah I just thought they're going outside to check the way my mom she said to me I realize there is something

00:28:19 to me I realize there is something serious so I quickly got up and what did your mother want you to do for your father

00:28:24 father she said wake him up she already went to him to wake him up but he was in his room but she came back to me and said to me you get up and wake him up and calm ourselves so your mother wanted you and

00:28:36 ourselves so your mother wanted you and your father to come down as well at that time when you looked out of the window you'd had a conversation with your

00:28:47 you'd had a conversation with your mother and your sister could you smell anything at all in the room no could you smell anything in the flat at all no because mama closed all the windows we

00:29:01 because mama closed all the windows we go please to the next page and let's look at paragraph 15 please

00:29:12 [Music]

00:29:24 you say there that I then went into the third bedroom that's on the plan that's Maria's bedroom is it yes where my father was sleeping which is the small box room when you arrived in that room

00:29:37 box room when you arrived in that room what was your father still asleep or had he woken up uh he was waking up but he was laying on on a bit so he was just beginning to wake up would that be no he

00:29:49 beginning to wake up would that be no he was awake no he was half-asleep half-awake because he takes medicine so he did a little eyes what my mom said to him do I understand you what you say is

00:30:01 him do I understand you what you say is he was slower to wake up because he taken some medication before going to bed

00:30:06 bed my father was 82 years old had a heart problem and had diabetes he had had a stent fitted into his artery I spoke to my father and told him about the fire I

00:30:17 my father and told him about the fire I had seen and he got up quickly we both went into the living room and we were standing near the middle window we could feel the heat even though the window was closed I looked through the middle

00:30:30 closed I looked through the middle window and the flame was just below the window can I just ask you some questions about that you went into the living room

00:30:41 about that you went into the living room with your your father where were your sister Maria and your mother at that point so they had already

00:30:52 mother at that point so they had already left the flat yep and you mentioned a few moments ago that your mother had closed the windows so were all the windows in the living room closed yes

00:31:05 was there any smoke coming into the living room from outside

00:31:14 and when you refer to the middle window we can look at your plan if that will help you but are you speaking of one of the windows that faced in the same direction as the kitchen window then

00:31:26 direction as the kitchen window then face east yes and you say at the last part of that paragraph that the flame was just below the window can you tell

00:31:38 was just below the window can you tell us a little bit more about what you were able to see at that time yeah because I remember me and my father we both bent us up on the ledge of the window and we

00:31:49 us up on the ledge of the window and we was trying to look outside but we couldn't able to see it and the window was very hot and as I touched it it was hot and I said to my father

00:32:00 hot and I said to my father I think the fire is just below the window and I bend myself more further and I saw the fire was just behind the window underneath it and how close was

00:32:11 window underneath it and how close was was it to be frame of the window yes can you say how close it was was it 2 inches or below the window yeah and did you see

00:32:24 or below the window yeah and did you see actual flames yes did you see any smoke

00:32:38 if we go now to paragraph 17 on the same page please if we just put that

00:32:50 page please if we just put that paragraph into context what you say just mr. fari is that you told your father to go to the washroom is that right yes and you continue in his paragraph that when

00:33:03 you continue in his paragraph that when whilst he was in the toilet you noticed the floor I was getting it higher and while while I was standing near the kitchen window waiting for my father the

00:33:14 kitchen window waiting for my father the fire reached our flat now so had you moved from the you've moved from whilst your father was in in the bathroom or the toilet you moved from

00:33:26 bathroom or the toilet you moved from the living room to the kitchen yeah I checked the windows and I stirred the fire so my mom's iPad was on the ledge of the window so I picked that up and took that to the soup i place it on

00:33:38 and took that to the soup i place it on the sofa and i went to the kitchen so when you first moved into the kitchen was there any smoke coming into the kitchen at all no could you see the flames outside the

00:33:51 no could you see the flames outside the kitchen window at all no and just so again so that we can be clear was was the kitchen window open or closed it was closed you say in that sentence that the

00:34:05 closed you say in that sentence that the fire came through the small circular vent at the top of the window yes when you say fire do you mean smoke or flames flames so was that the first

00:34:17 flames flames so was that the first thing that you saw coming in yep can you remember seeing any smoke at all after audience so it was flames first yeah when they broke that phone well if I

00:34:30 when they broke that phone well if I taking stages and will ask you about the fan in a moment when you saw the flames could you smell anything at that time

00:34:41 could you smell anything at that time like why are burning something like plastic burning was it the same smell that you'd smelt earlier in the night was it similar smell I can't remember but it was

00:34:53 smell I can't remember but it was something like plastic was burning was it a strong smell or was it a light smell like could you tell where it was

00:35:05 smell like could you tell where it was coming from from the kitchen window and from that vent and define so what were the flames doing to that vent as it

00:35:18 the flames doing to that vent as it entered it was like it was like kind of let go it blowed it up when the fire came on the fan so that fine came out again just if I if

00:35:34 so that fine came out again just if I if you come back to the fan if I may but can we just can you remember what happened to the vent because what you've said is that the fire came through the small circle of vents and yeah can you

00:35:45 small circle of vents and yeah can you just tell us help us please with what what did the fire do to that small circle event it was kind of real a cough pushing it inside the window sue was

00:35:56 pushing it inside the window sue was very quick so as I saw it the fan it came inside the kitchen and are on the frame of the window it was fire and the big word the bigger side of the window it blowed up inside the kitchen again

00:36:15 it blowed up inside the kitchen again I'll come back to that in a moment if I may but can I ask you this you've said that there was a smoke alarm outside Maria's bedroom what was happening with

00:36:27 Maria's bedroom what was happening with that smoke alarm at this time it was an on that time

00:36:33 we look at the next paragraph please paragraph 18

00:36:47 you begin that paragraph mr. fari with the sentence I noticed the wires started to burn near to the fan in the kitchen window now I think we you've told us

00:36:59 window now I think we you've told us already that the fan was something different to the vent wasn't it I think the fan in the vent both were together I don't know how to explain that but it was together they were near each other

00:37:11 was together they were near each other what would it be fair to say that they were near each other in the window yeah and did the flames reach the fan at the same time as they reached the vent yes

00:37:24 when you say that the wire started to burn near to the fan can you remember what was it that was causing the wires to burn the fire because when the fan

00:37:39 to burn the fire because when the fan was broken so the wire would stop to it see it start to burn

00:37:48 continue in that paragraph I knocks on the toilet door and told my father that the fire was in the kitchen my father came out quickly and as they looked around the door the glass in the kitchen

00:38:00 around the door the glass in the kitchen window smash on the fire and the flames then covered the entire window area the whole window in the kitchen broke into the vent completely collapsed

00:38:11 the vent completely collapsed I saw the glass break and the fire come through as I was standing there the plastic around the window was burning and then you continue if I read little further down the kitchen window also had

00:38:23 further down the kitchen window also had curtains and they caught fire where the sliding doors were have fitted like curtains which also caught fire below the kitchen window we had a small fridge and a TV now again if I take that in

00:38:38 and a TV now again if I take that in stages please you obviously left the kitchen to go and get your father and did the two of you just come and then

00:38:49 did the two of you just come and then stand at the doorway to the kitchen looking in yes and was it after you had gone to get your father and come back

00:39:00 gone to get your father and come back that you saw the glass in the kitchen window smash yes

00:39:10 can you help us with this please how much time passed between your first noticing fire outside the kitchen window and the glass smashing one to two

00:39:24 and the glass smashing one to two minutes and what could you see outside the kitchen window just before the glass smashed I didn't see anything I just

00:39:36 smashed I didn't see anything I just grabbed a few of the rugs from the floor and I just panicked and when you say that the whole window broke in two are

00:39:47 that the whole window broke in two are you referring to the glass in the window actually the whole frame you fall out the normally which would open by the wind so that whole frame came out and

00:40:03 wind so that whole frame came out and was it the frame coming out that cause the glass to break I face it I didn't see how it breaks but because I went to my father but when I came out came back to the kitchen the frame was on the

00:40:14 to the kitchen the frame was on the floor on the Shelf of the on the top work so would it be fair to say that what you saw was the the fire coming in through the vent vent and the fan yeah

00:40:25 through the vent vent and the fan yeah and the fan yep you then went got get your father yep and when you came back the whole frame was on the floor yeah and where was the fire at the time in around a window had he got any further

00:40:38 around a window had he got any further into the kitchen just the main door sliding the sliding door because we had curtains and some decoration around the door so those were under fire and

00:40:52 door so those were under fire and when was it that you noticed that the plastic around the window was burning when I when I say when I came back to the kitchen

00:41:07 did you see anything happen to the fridge all the television that were there so I'm getting to another topic

00:41:19 there so I'm getting to another topic now and I wondered whether mr. Farr has been for some 40 minutes whether she she might well welcome a break but if not we can continue we'll ask her mr. fari

00:41:30 can continue we'll ask her mr. fari would you like to have a break now or do you comfortable carrying on more what do you like to do I think you're right for a bit

00:41:36 a bit well let's carry on for another 10 or 15 minutes we'll have a break before long anyway and if you need one make it clear and you'll have fun straightaway okay

00:41:48 and you'll have fun straightaway okay thank you very much mr. fine could we look then please at the next page page five Newton and let's just look at

00:42:00 five Newton and let's just look at paragraph 19

00:42:10 in this paragraph mr. fire if I summarize it you describe going leaving the flat and going into the lift area and your father was your father was

00:42:22 and your father was your father was there before you is that right yes when you got into the lift area were the lights still on yes

00:42:42 we look at your plan please just so that we can see just the layout and I lws68 one page too

00:43:00 we can see that I think the the entrance to the flat is just I think today would

00:43:14 to the flat is just I think today would be the left of the bathroom but if you were standing outside your front door and you were in the left area would you be able to see into the kitchen of your home yeah if you were outside the front

00:43:28 home yeah if you were outside the front door would you would you be able to see what was going on in the kitchen if you were outside the flat No would you if we see there's there's a hallway running along there past the bathroom is that

00:43:39 along there past the bathroom is that way you'd have to be to start seeing what was going on in the kitchen no where would you if you wanted to know what was going on in the kitchen where would you have to go you have to go further just nice bedroom just see

00:43:52 further just nice bedroom just see inside the kitchen well let's go back now to paragraph 19 please and now just

00:44:06 now to paragraph 19 please and now just to orientate ourselves you're outside the flat in the lift area you say there was no smoke there our neighbor Natasha who lived in flat 82 was standing in the lobby I told her there was a fire in our

00:44:20 lobby I told her there was a fire in our flash and she came into our corridor and saw the flames when you refer there to a corridor which corridor you are you thinking of the main corridor in our

00:44:33 thinking of the main corridor in our flat and did you go with Natasha into that corridor yes you've been half way where she came out how far did you go just needed a toilet and so you saw

00:44:51 just needed a toilet and so you saw flames from that position did you yes and can you describe what you were seeing at that time I only said because I closed the door when I came out before coming out so I closed the kitchen door

00:45:03 coming out so I closed the kitchen door it was a glass door so close down so I could see it was lighting up inside the kitchen so what

00:45:15 lighting up inside the kitchen so what you were able to look at was through through the closed kitchen door you were able to see what was still going on in the kitchen yeah it was really bright something like very bright

00:45:26 something like very bright do you have a sense of any smoke at all by that time the alarm was on I only was a smoke and was there any smoke in the corridor where you were yeah a bit not

00:45:38 corridor where you were yeah a bit not much about it and can you describe that smoke please it was kind of like plastic burning not very strong but it was very like why was the fire alarm was on and

00:45:52 like why was the fire alarm was on and what did the smoke look like I can't I couldn't wait to see because before leaving the flat when I said there was a fire around the girl window so I went

00:46:03 fire around the girl window so I went quickly to the main power so I turn off all the electricity in the house so it was dark in the corridor and so what you had was a sense of a burning smell yep

00:46:15 had was a sense of a burning smell yep and was that smell similar to that which you'd experienced earlier in the night I can't remember I didn't state that much time because I

00:46:26 I didn't state that much time because I was too scared so as I've been with Natasha I quickly came

00:46:35 and what you say is that Natasha went back into her flat for some reason she suggested that we'd go to her house and pulled my hand but I said no that we

00:46:47 pulled my hand but I said no that we needed to go down and out of the building I then went back into our flat to turn on the taps but by now the flames had already reached the end of the kitchen corridor so I couldn't do

00:46:58 the kitchen corridor so I couldn't do this and just so that we can clear how many times did you go back into your flat twice so the first time was with Natasha

00:47:06 Natasha into the corridor just half way and then you came out again and went back in a second time to try and turn the test because I explained to my father I've seen the fire because at the first point

00:47:17 seen the fire because at the first point I said to him the fire one enter the house because all the windows are double glazing but when I said the fire was already in the kitchen so I realized that living room is also in there there's a final living resolve so I

00:47:29 there's a final living resolve so I thought the fire might come to the corridor so I will go back to the bathroom when I turn on the top water so water will fall all over so you won't catch fire

00:47:44 and when you say that the flames have reached the end of the kitchen corridor which corridor are you referring to the main corridor

00:47:55 main corridor well can we can we look at your plan again the end things I WS I think 682

00:48:03 could we expand that a little bit please I think the the entrance into the flat

00:48:14 I think the the entrance into the flat is is just next to the bathroom is that right yes and so you'd walk through that small area and then there's the hallway with doors that would open into the three bedrooms and when when you're

00:48:27 three bedrooms and when when you're referring to kitchen corridor can you just point out what you mean by that just the walkway so the hallway that runs past the bedroom doors yep and you

00:48:45 runs past the bedroom doors yep and you said in your statement the flames had already reached the end of the kitchen corridor yes which end are you thinking of just the door just down there in front of my raised room around the frame

00:48:56 front of my raised room around the frame we just learned it that's the kitchen so that's my real room just under here I couldn't able to see that's the living room door so just that way on the right

00:49:07 room door so just that way on the right side so if we see that they where where we sit says Murray there's a door there too in front of my really yeah the other kitchen door and so with a flame still

00:49:19 kitchen door and so with a flame still inside the kitchen or had they come out of the indicating was there any flames had any flames reached anywhere else in the flat that you were aware of no I did a joke but you didn't see flames in the

00:49:33 a joke but you didn't see flames in the hallway or near Maria's room no because I closed the kitchen

00:49:44 can we go back please to the statement again page four and let's look at paragraph sorry page five paragraphs 2021 please

00:50:06 what you say in paragraph 20 mr. fari is that you tell us that you and your father then knocked on neighbors doors and a neighbor Yusef from flat 85 came

00:50:23 and a neighbor Yusef from flat 85 came out and looked through the front door of your flat did he get very far into the flat door no and were you with him when

00:50:37 flat door no and were you with him when he was looking through the front door yes and what could you see at that time

00:50:48 were you aware of any smoke in the corridor in the hallway of your flat at all at that time no could you feel any heat at all from inside the flat

00:51:08 if we look at paragraph 21 and I'll read it by mail but I remember that my father was panicking and sweating his hands were shaking

00:51:19 were shaking normally at such times he would take a spray that helps with the hearts blood flow this could be needed at any time for my father and so both Maria and I kept a spray in our bags in case my

00:51:30 kept a spray in our bags in case my father needed it I didn't have the spray on me because I had run out of the blood and I couldn't go back into the flat to get it because of the fire I was worried about whether my father could make it

00:51:41 about whether my father could make it down the stairs around this time my father asked me why we didn't close the front door to our flat I hadn't closed it properly because we didn't have the key I thought the keys were in the flat

00:51:52 key I thought the keys were in the flat again just so we can be clear what did your father mean by closing the front door properly

00:52:03 door properly that's my someone going to say that left so just don't understand how the door worked if you pulled it hard it would shut yes but what your father wanted you

00:52:14 shut yes but what your father wanted you to do is to lock the door yes

00:52:23 when you left me flat did you actually pull the door tight - or was it left partly open can you

00:52:34 or was it left partly open can you remember how far open no yes you've told us mr. fari that um yes you could hear

00:52:47 us mr. fari that um yes you could hear the smoke alarm in the hallway of your flat yes

00:52:50 flat yes whilst you were in the area of the lift could you hear smoke alarms from anywhere else I can't remember no and in the time that you were in that

00:53:01 no and in the time that you were in that area did you have any sense of there being smoke in the lift area or on the landing at all no sorry I don't my question was was there any smoke at

00:53:12 my question was was there any smoke at all that you could see on the landing and the lift area no could you smell anything whilst you were there mr.

00:53:23 anything whilst you were there mr. chairman that may be a convenient time yes you do yes yes well I think we'd all benefit from a short break now mr. Jefferies

00:53:30 Jefferies so we'll break for ten minutes I'm going to ask you to go with the usher in the moment please don't talk to anyone about your evidence while you're out of the run all right and we'll come back at

00:53:41 run all right and we'll come back at five past eleven right right to give you the ocean I think you

00:54:05 right five past eleven please

01:05:02 thank you could we have mr. fari back please

01:05:23 when mr. fari sit down make yourself comfortable you happy to carry on though thank you yes mr. wellick Thank You mr. chairman

01:05:35 it's Jafari before I move on with your evidence I just want you to take you back to our the questions I was asking

01:05:47 back to our the questions I was asking about the kitchen window and I want to do that by showing you a photograph for those in the chamber can I just say that

01:05:58 those in the chamber can I just say that this is a photograph that appears in dr. Barbara lanes report and it's just a photograph that was taken of a from the interior of one of the flats in the tower after the fire so I think I'll

01:06:11 tower after the fire so I think I'll just pause briefly mr. Ciampa method if anybody wants to leave the hearing room I didn't think it can we have it's its

01:06:23 I didn't think it can we have it's its reference be la r6 so I think seven zeros three and then internal page 23 please and could we just expand the image if we can mr. Farr if I explained

01:06:41 image if we can mr. Farr if I explained this isn't a photograph taken of your flat but it's a photograph taken from flat 13 and he shows a kitchen window did your kitchen window look like that

01:06:53 did your kitchen window look like that yes and we see at the top there that there looks to be what what appears to be a plastic panel with a fan in the middle of it is that what the that the

01:07:05 middle of it is that what the that the fan and the vent looked like in your flat

01:07:07 flat yes so when you said earlier they were part of the same thing is that what you meant that they were together in that way yes because confused event and finalized both together do not separate the same yeah yes very

01:07:23 do not separate the same yeah yes very much

01:07:24 much [Music]

01:07:27 could we go back please to your statement and it's iws 683 page 5 of paragraph 20

01:07:46 that fact could we please have paragraphs 23 and 24 sorry

01:07:56 mr. fari you explained before the short break that you were worried about your father and his ability to walk down the stairs because of his health and you

01:08:07 stairs because of his health and you tell us in paragraph 23 that you were also worried about yourself and you say because of my recent surgery I was in a lot of pain and I was not strong enough

01:08:18 lot of pain and I was not strong enough to be able to help him down the stairs if we look at paragraph 24 please what you do in this paragraph is to describe

01:08:31 you do in this paragraph is to describe at the lift arriving on your floor and you say that night only one of the lifts was working the other one was out of service

01:08:41 service it was the lift on the right side as you look at the lift that was working the lift door opened and there were a few people standing inside there must have been about six people in the lift but I

01:08:52 been about six people in the lift but I don't remember who that people were or exactly how many now first question about the left please can you remember if the lift came down from a higher

01:09:03 if the lift came down from a higher floor or whether it came up from a lower floor no because we can't see it from where it didn't have any sign because

01:09:15 where it didn't have any sign because normally on the lives they have sound like the leaf is on 10th floor I didn't see that so you you can't tell where it came from

01:09:23 came from yeah is that right you can't help with that I can't remember Bob I didn't see because I didn't press the button for the live it was another lady she came from the stairways I she was kind of

01:09:35 from the stairways I she was kind of like panic so she was the one that she pressed the lift and she was waiting for the lift to come so I was that time I was looking in my neighbor door so this

01:09:47 was looking in my neighbor door so this lady came onto your onto your floor is that why she came to and where had she come from I see did she come through from the stairwell yeah because my father he was a standing

01:09:59 yeah because my father he was a standing Wednesday

01:09:59 Wednesday so he/she just passed my father as she came in I she came and she pressed the button for the lift and do you know what happened to that lady no she came out

01:10:13 happened to that lady no she came out with me

01:10:14 with me so do you remember her getting into the lift with you at the same time she was the one she's she said to me let's go by they live now if you're thinking about

01:10:26 they live now if you're thinking about it today do you have a clearer idea of how many people were in the lift when you got into it no I'm not sure because that time I was very scared and panicked

01:10:38 that time I was very scared and panicked and but I remembered they were a man in the live wouldn't lift him I remember there was a man so if we look at

01:10:51 there was a man so if we look at paragraph 24 and you say there must have been about six people in the lift with us together with with you so the people who got in at the 11th floor was yourself yes your father yes and the

01:11:04 yourself yes your father yes and the woman who pressed the button yeah and of the people that were in that lift when it arrived the one memory you have is that one of them was a man yes can you

01:11:18 that one of them was a man yes can you remember anything else about what that man looked like he was not old tall and healthy so I didn't catch your last

01:11:29 healthy so I didn't catch your last answer he was healthy and muscular man something like that I was saying could you tell can you remember what ethnicity he was do you remember if there were any

01:11:44 he was do you remember if there were any what anybody else in who was in the lift when it arrived on your floor was wearing I know do you remember there was anybody in the lift who had the head covered

01:12:00 we look please now at paragraphs 25 and 26

01:12:17 this is begins you say we got into the lift and it started to go down so you've told us that there were three of you got

01:12:28 told us that there were three of you got that got into the lift on the 11th floor was it quite crowded in the lift when you got into it by the time you'd all got into it

01:12:41 remember because the lift was quite huge and he had a capacity for 12 people when

01:12:52 and he had a capacity for 12 people when the lift arrived and stopped on your floor

01:12:58 floor was there any smoke in the lift or was it completely clear when you got into it it was completely okay let's look a little more paragraph 25 you say and got

01:13:12 little more paragraph 25 you say and got into the lift and it started to go down but the lift reached only the tenth floor before he got stuck the lights went off dark smoke began to come into the lift people began to panic and kept

01:13:24 the lift people began to panic and kept pushing the buttons eventually the doors opened I tried to get out but it was difficult I realized that there was someone behind me who was holding on to me I couldn't see who it was because it

01:13:35 me I couldn't see who it was because it was so dark I kept asking them to stop but she was clinging to me and holding my legs then if I read a bit about part of paragraph 26 it was terrifying and

01:13:48 of paragraph 26 it was terrifying and the smoke was horrible there was a strong and bitter chemical smell I tried to speak but it's too hard because of the smoke there was a man banging on the door very heavily with

01:13:59 banging on the door very heavily with his legs he was pushing with both his legs the only thing that I heard my father say in the left was to tell me I should cover my mouth with my scarf when

01:14:11 should cover my mouth with my scarf when the lift reached the 10th floor

01:14:16 and stopped do you remember if the door was opened straightaway no it was closed for a few minutes not much maybe 1 to 2 minutes

01:14:32 and did the smoke that you described in paragraph 25 start coming into the lift before the doors had opened yes and can

01:14:43 before the doors had opened yes and can you remember how the smoke was getting into the lift from dad all laughing so was it around the edges of the door yes and we know that there are two doors in the lift that meet in the middle was it

01:14:54 the lift that meet in the middle was it coming through the the gap between the two doors I didn't see what it was from the door

01:15:05 you've described the smokers dark long and bitter chemical smell can you remember anything else about the smoke at all and how quickly did the smoke get

01:15:21 at all and how quickly did the smoke get into the lift it was very fast it was very quick and was the lights were already off in the lift by their mothers even the buttons of the lips had

01:15:32 even the buttons of the lips had lightning but you know what physical effect did that smoke have on you I couldn't able to breathe up and I couldn't able to see so I closed my eyes

01:15:44 couldn't able to see so I closed my eyes and I was coffee and I feel like to vomit and how quickly did that happen after one two minutes and did you hear

01:15:57 after one two minutes and did you hear what effect it was having on others in the list yes they were like they were shouting man coughing badly and one figures of manner I'm not sure but someone was went to the ground it was on

01:16:09 someone was went to the ground it was on the floor

01:16:15 when the lift doors opened could you see into floor ten at all no it was fully dark um what sense did you have of the conditions on floor ten it was full of

01:16:28 conditions on floor ten it was full of smoke I'm dark and was at the same type of smokers had come into the lift yes

01:16:39 you described trying to get out but that someone was holding on to you and you said if we look at it it's the last sentence of paragraph ten to five she was clinging to me and holding my legs

01:16:50 was clinging to me and holding my legs how did you know that this person was a woman I'm not sure because there was a woman she was just right behind me by my side and someone was holding on my leg I

01:17:03 side and someone was holding on my leg I don't know how could anybody just see probably well I think it's her or maybe that man but that man was a bit far just a bit close to the door but she was just next to me and was this the

01:17:16 was just next to me and was this the same woman who was on your floor when the lift had arrived I think yeah because I think she was the only one woman with me

01:17:32 and what you do remember as well in paragraph 26 is that there was a man banging on the door very heavily yes so was that do you remember who that man was

01:17:43 was no was he the same person that you'd seen when the lift arrived on floor 11 I'm not sure

01:18:00 we look now please at paragraph 27

01:18:12 you explain there that the lift doors then closed and the lift began going down again who say the lift was very dark there was still some smoke in the

01:18:24 dark there was still some smoke in the lift and finally the door open on the ground floor and everyone ran out I ran out of the lift as the lift was going down from the tender did it stop at any

01:18:36 down from the tender did it stop at any other floors on the way down no and you say there was still some smoke in the lift can you give us a sense of how much smoke there was in the lift

01:18:46 lift it was packed with smoke it was lots of smoke in the live but as it was going down some way from it smoke was cop it was getting a bit less than before I was

01:19:00 was getting a bit less than before I was able to open my eyes mr. chairman if I can now give a warning I want to now show mr. fari a number of CCTV images

01:19:12 show mr. fari a number of CCTV images yes

01:19:13 yes taken from a camera which filmed the ground floor lobby again they may be distressing images for some who are here and so I'll pause briefly just to see if

01:19:25 and so I'll pause briefly just to see if anybody does need to leave I think the position is that no one wants to do so no one's moving at the moment I think you can take it thank you very much to see them mr. fari what I want to do now

01:19:37 see them mr. fari what I want to do now is to show you some CCTV images are you alright to view those images

01:19:48 alright to view those images yes and if you need to look at them you'll find them tap three of your the bundle that's in front of you just so that you know they're pictures of you leaving the building through the lobby

01:20:00 leaving the building through the lobby right

01:20:03 right what I'm going to do is before I ask any questions about these images I'm going to show you some of them in sequence and they start with a picture that's taken

01:20:16 they start with a picture that's taken before the lift arrives on the ground floor as we go through these images I'm going to be giving what we're calling the adjusted time and to explain to you

01:20:29 the adjusted time and to explain to you and to others here what that is is the best estimate that the inquiry can give with the assistance of our experts for the real-time that appears on that for that image so I'm not going to ask your

01:20:42 that image so I'm not going to ask your questions but I'll just take you through them so can we first of all have inq five zeros for two three please so that

01:21:00 five zeros for two three please so that again just explained it this is the first image the lobby before the lift arrives the adjusted time for this image is 126 and 24 seconds

01:21:11 is 126 and 24 seconds could we have IQ four to four please

01:21:18 adjusted time is 126 and 26 seconds IQ 45

01:21:32 adjusted time one 26:29 9q 46 please

01:21:45 adjusted time 126 and 39 q47 adjusted

01:21:56 adjusted time 126 and 39 q47 adjusted time is 126 and 32 inq 4 to 8 please adjust at time 1 26 and 35 IQ 49 adjusted time 126 and 36 I

01:22:18 and 35 IQ 49 adjusted time 126 and 36 I in q4 3-0

01:22:23 adjusted time 126 and 36 and IQ for 3 one please just a time 126 and 40 mr.

01:22:37 one please just a time 126 and 40 mr. fari

01:22:39 fari that sequence of stills shows the lift arriving you're leaving the lift and then you're leaving the building I'm not

01:22:52 then you're leaving the building I'm not going to take you through them all again but I just want to take you back to some of those images to ask you some questions are you happy to continue yeah thank you very much

01:23:04 if we go back please - IQ four - four please

01:23:17 this is a second image that we looked at and we can see that a woman is seen coming out of the lift and we can also see we just we have to do this but just

01:23:31 see we just we have to do this but just to confirm for the record that person is not you is it now you've described seeing a woman on the who came to the eleventh floor and

01:23:43 the who came to the eleventh floor and pressed the lift button does that picture help you at all to as to whether that was the person that you saw in the 11th floor do you remember now looking

01:24:01 11th floor do you remember now looking at that image whether does that help you to remember that recalling that person being in the lift with you kind of yes

01:24:12 being in the lift with you kind of yes but I'm not sure but there was a lady we go to an q45 please

01:24:26 now this is the next person to come out of the lift and someone wearing a shawl around their head can you confirm if that person is you yes and can you tell

01:24:40 that person is you yes and can you tell us what was happening there I came out I double check if someone is inside the lift and do you remember whether you

01:24:52 lift and do you remember whether you could see anyone else inside the lift at that time it so you could there was no one in the lift no and we can see if we look at that

01:25:04 no and we can see if we look at that image that this black smoke at the top and also smoke lower down can you see that yes was that what the smoke was like when you were in the lift

01:25:16 like when you were in the lift yes but much more pika well let me take that in stages that you say the smoke was thicker was it was it much thicker when it first started coming into the

01:25:28 when it first started coming into the lift yes and you told us there was still some smoke as the lift came down from the 10th floor yes do you think of it when you think of that smoke it was it still much thicker than you we can see

01:25:40 still much thicker than you we can see there because that time when I was on a ten foot it was a lot more smoke well as it came down it got less I could able to breathe I know I could able to open my

01:25:52 breathe I know I could able to open my eyes but on 10/4 I couldn't able to and when you say victim you were able to open your eyes did the smoke have any effect on on your eyes yes what did he

01:26:05 effect on on your eyes yes what did he do it was kind of like itching I couldn't able to open he was kind of like burning something into my eyes and did that last

01:26:16 and did that last a bit when I came out so when we see you in that image was it was the smoke still affecting your eyes yes and what was it

01:26:27 affecting your eyes yes and what was it doing do your your breathing I was coughing I feel like to vomit if we go

01:26:39 coughing I feel like to vomit if we go please to find Q four to six and then what we can see there mr. fari and that

01:26:54 what we can see there mr. fari and that that's you and you appear to be walking towards following the lady and walking towards the door is that right yes and what were you wanting to do at that time I wanted to go outside to check if my

01:27:07 I wanted to go outside to check if my father came before me maybe I didn't see him when they live what was open so I thought he came out before me and he went out so I went to see our sight if

01:27:18 went out so I went to see our sight if he's our sight we now look please at inq four to nine

01:27:29 and that's you now on the other side of the door in the in the main lobby of the tower is that right yes is it possible for us to just expand that image that we can see mr. fari a little more clearly

01:27:41 can see mr. fari a little more clearly please no you appear when we enlarge limas you have something on your face

01:27:52 limas you have something on your face can you describe what was on your face at that time I was crying and shouting and calling for my father and did you have any was there in marks of the smoke

01:28:04 have any was there in marks of the smoke on you yes as you can see my face was full of smoke and it was black and even inside my mouth and what about your clothes

01:28:16 clothes they were bit with smoky what if you smoke

01:28:25 if we go now please - thank you 4:31

01:28:35 your now I think this is the the main entrance to the tower isn't it yes and your your that's you going through that entrance is that right yes so you've

01:28:46 entrance is that right yes so you've come out of the lift you've come through the foyer and you're going out through the main entrance what were you thinking of doing at that time the first point it was in my head to

01:28:58 the first point it was in my head to research for my father and my sister and my mother because they were already outside

01:29:03 outside but when I didn't see both of them and my father I went back inside to go back to the temple but good I'll show you another CCTV still mr. Chen of course

01:29:18 another CCTV still mr. Chen of course the previous warning that we we gave stands but I think yes you can carry on but it's it's it's a new CCTV still weak not one of the ones we've just shown you before mr. fari but it's inq 4-3-3

01:29:39 and the adjusted time for this he is 126 and 59 seconds so if I just explained to it just it help you mr. fari it's 19 seconds after the last

01:29:53 fari it's 19 seconds after the last image that we looked at and it's you coming back into the tower is that right yes and again just to help us with what

01:30:06 yes and again just to help us with what were you going to do at this time I want to go back to the lift go back now to if

01:30:19 to go back to the lift go back now to if we look please at inq 435 another new image for the record the adjusted time

01:30:30 image for the record the adjusted time is 127 and 6 seconds sorry again I think we see you there but can you tell us what's happening in this picture because I didn't had the key and she opened the

01:30:42 I didn't had the key and she opened the door I need to fall so I didn't heard that so I'm just shouting I don't know whom I'm calling I can't remember but I was asking for a fall because it's only

01:30:54 was asking for a fall because it's only with a fob key that you can get through to the lift is that right and before we leave that image if we look towards the right of it you can see that there's a just on the other side of the glass a

01:31:05 just on the other side of the glass a woman there with a dressing gown do you remember seeing her [Music]

01:31:16 just two more CCTV images to show you please IQ 436 adjusted time 126 or I

01:31:30 please IQ 436 adjusted time 126 or I think it should be 127 and 9 seconds and then thank you for three seven please

01:31:41 120s are just a time 127 and 11 seconds so this is you now going back out of the towel for a second time isn't it yes and was it after that second time that you

01:31:54 was it after that second time that you left that you were able to find your sister Maria and your mother yeah she was just our sight when you came out of the tower did anyone ask you what flat

01:32:05 the tower did anyone ask you what flat you'd come from no could we go back please - your witness statement by lws68 3 page 7 please

01:32:25 span and paragraph 31 please you say there mr. fari when I came out my mother and Maria was standing there Maria

01:32:37 and Maria was standing there Maria didn't have the key fob for the stairs that she had given it to the firemen and the policemen would not let me go back inside we argued with the policeman about this but he wouldn't let us in so

01:32:50 about this but he wouldn't let us in so just again so that we can understand your evidence better was it one policeman that you were arguing with and did that policeman give

01:33:01 arguing with and did that policeman give you any information about what was happening to the fire inside the tower no do you remember giving any information to that policeman about your

01:33:12 information to that policeman about your father yes I said to him I want to go back because my father's inside but did you tell him where your father might be not to him no did you tell him what flat

01:33:24 not to him no did you tell him what flat you had left no but you're clearing your recollection there was a male police officer is that right can we stay on the

01:33:35 officer is that right can we stay on the same page please and just look at paragraphs 32 to 34

01:33:45 just draw your attention mr. fire to paragraph 32 first I was feeling very sick by now because of all the smoke I had inhale and because of the effects in

01:33:57 had inhale and because of the effects in operation I sat down under the walkway to burned and walk for a few minutes there's a small garden area with a place where you can sit and I stayed there and then you described your brother Farid

01:34:11 then you described your brother Farid and his wife coming and then the paragraph finishes I was just sitting for a time and then the police came and they pushed us on further away from the tower you go on in paragraph 33 to say

01:34:28 tower you go on in paragraph 33 to say that you were searching outside for your father and then if we look at paragraph 34 I was feeling worse and worse I was sick and after one hour I started to

01:34:40 sick and after one hour I started to lose feeling in my feet my hands and feet turn blue I was out of breath I couldn't feel my hands and I couldn't breathe properly I also

01:34:51 and I couldn't breathe properly I also had a sharp pain in my legs Maria brought two people to see me and they put special aluminium plastic down for people to lie on I was cold and shaking and they said I needed to go to the hospital the ambulance was very far

01:35:04 the hospital the ambulance was very far away though and I needed to walk to it I remember that Maria said don't close your eyes but they kept closing no you say it's in paragraph 34 that you say

01:35:15 say it's in paragraph 34 that you say that you've started to lose feeling in your feet but can we just take it in stages please how soon after leaving the tower did you start feeling unwell I

01:35:26 tower did you start feeling unwell I can't remember exactly what time but but it was sunrise before sunrise in in June normally sunrise come up

01:35:39 in in June normally sunrise come up around three o'clock in the morning so I came out like one half past one so maybe three so maybe after two and was that

01:35:52 three so maybe after two and was that when your hands and feet started turning blue and you started feeling out of breath yep so up until then had you had you been had you been okay I know we went back it

01:36:03 had you been okay I know we went back it was in front of the Sports Center so some people are neighbors they bought chairs and something yeah it was chairs and my mom showed me so I was sitting

01:36:14 and my mom showed me so I was sitting there because I couldn't able to walk so they provide some chairs for us I'm daughter and you say you were out of

01:36:28 daughter and you say you were out of breath how can you describe how to how difficult it was for her why you of all how you were finding it difficult to breathe I don't know all of a sudden I could have able to stand because I was

01:36:39 could have able to stand because I was like trying to go and look for my father because my sister and my brother they were all like going around the building but I was with my mother and I was a standing because the police wouldn't they asked you go near the building so I

01:36:51 they asked you go near the building so I said to my sister I don't feel my feet anymore and I couldn't able to breathe

01:37:00 and when you first started feeling unwell which I think your evidence now it was a possibly about three o'clock in the morning was there anyone offering medical treatment to people who were

01:37:12 medical treatment to people who were coming out of the tower the people fall off the tower oh the ambulance I don't know there was two men I remember they came and I think they were from the team of I'm billing Saturday

01:37:25 from the team of I'm billing Saturday but they took me to the ambulance so the two men that we the two people that you described Maria bringing what were those two men yes and were they wearing uniforms

01:37:44 if we go please now just to the next page and say but just take a look at paragraph 36

01:37:56 just want to pick up on the first sentence of that paragraph please mr. fari and it's what you've said isn't he hospital went to hospital you say there was smoke in my throat can you just

01:38:07 was smoke in my throat can you just explain a little bit further please what you mean by smoke in your throat because the doctor said he can't see because he broke kind of like a camera two more

01:38:18 broke kind of like a camera two more nurses and he said there is kind of relax moving to you through but not inside your chest and did he tell you what what he could see did he describe the smoke what did he say he said

01:38:29 the smoke what did he say he said there's only three D of throat and the pipeline does it and he said he's going to give me any injection that's it I had an oxygen for maybe an hour and after

01:38:40 an oxygen for maybe an hour and after that they took it off so up until you had had oxygen at the hospital what was your breathing like it was kind of like because I was feeling like to form it so

01:38:53 because I was feeling like to form it so they had to control that I've reached the end of my questions but I think if I could just ask for a short pause I'm

01:39:05 could just ask for a short pause I'm sure they might be some additional questions that others might wish me to ask of course well mr. Robert thinks he's finished asking questions but we're going to have a short break so that he can check so I'm going to ask you to

01:39:18 can check so I'm going to ask you to leave us for about five minutes so that he can check whether there are more questions he needs to ask you and then we'll come back and see how things go all right

01:39:28 all right don't talk to anyone please about your evidence why the writers room all right so you go with the ashram we'll come back a quarter - is that good feel right yes well I can I asked for 10 minutes I

01:39:40 yes well I can I asked for 10 minutes I mean 10 minutes all right tend to tend to 10 minute for it all right

01:40:00 right 10 to 12 empty space

01:49:15 well not mr. rabbit have you found some more cursors yes the assistance of a number of the lawyers in the room you have what you might write could we ask mr. miss Jafari to come back in please

01:49:42 I do sit down I think there are a few more questions yes thank you miss Chen mr. fari I've just got four

01:49:53 miss Chen mr. fari I've just got four things to ask you about the first it's about the you mentioned that your door did not have a self closing mechanism but you remember that yes and you told

01:50:06 but you remember that yes and you told us that a housing officer had visited you in 2017 did anyone come to fix the door into that at any time in 2017

01:50:18 door into that at any time in 2017 before the fire no my next question is about the lift we know you've told us that you got in on the 11th floor and then you got out on the ground floor

01:50:31 then you got out on the ground floor we've seen that yes did you get in on the same side and get out on the same side with the doors on the same side you remember you mean the lift yes the lift

01:50:42 remember you mean the lift yes the lift doors when you you would have come into the lift through one set of lift doors and then you would have left on the ground floor did you leave on the same side of the lift as you got out once you got in on yes you've also told us that

01:50:58 got in on yes you've also told us that you remember a woman coming onto the 11th floor I'm pressing the button for the lift and she got into the lift with you is that right yes can you help us at

01:51:09 you is that right yes can you help us at all anymore with with what that woman looked like I can't remember do you remember whether or not she was wearing a hijab or had her head covered at all

01:51:21 so you could see her hair to remember that yes

01:51:32 and my last question is this you've given us a written witness statement you've answered all of my

01:51:43 statement you've answered all of my questions today above what you've put in your witness statement and what you've said today is there anything else about the events of that night that you think

01:51:54 the events of that night that you think it's important for the Chairman to know

01:52:01 all that remains is for me thank you once again for coming to give evidence to the inquiry today it has been enormous ly helpful to us thank you and

01:52:12 enormous ly helpful to us thank you and I don't my thanks to those mr. Rawat it really is very important for us to hear what went on inside the tower during the fire and so we're very new evidence is

01:52:23 fire and so we're very new evidence is very valuable it's obviously a very frightening and distressing experience for you made even worse of course by the loss of your father so I'm sorry we've had to ask you to come and tell us about it again but it

01:52:35 come and tell us about it again but it is very useful so thank you very much indeed

01:52:45 thank you very much

01:52:51 mr. chairman having he now heard the evidence of naji jerf re what i would like to do at this stage is put into the record the inquiry witness statement of her sister maria Jafari yes as we heard

01:53:05 her sister maria Jafari yes as we heard left shortly before Nadia left the family home yes I am going to draw your attention to some parts of that

01:53:16 attention to some parts of that statement but as was explained last week and and it's a point that relates to the witness statements that are going to be

01:53:27 witness statements that are going to be read into the record this afternoon the statement in its entirety goes into the record and will be considered as part of the evidence before the inquiry in its entirety yes the statement of Mario

01:53:44 entirety yes the statement of Mario Jafari if we deal with the formalities he is at iaws five zeroes seven four four yes page eight of that if we go to

01:53:59 four yes page eight of that if we go to that

01:54:05 we can seems chairman it's dated the first of June 2018 and signed with a statement of truth there are no exhibits

01:54:16 statement of truth there are no exhibits to the statement maria Jafari as as will be clear lived a flat 86 with her parents ali Jawara yes Jew yeo-hwa

01:54:27 parents ali Jawara yes Jew yeo-hwa Jafari and her fatima Jafari and her sister now Nadia yes and their flat was owned by the Notting Hill Housing Trust can I take us back please to the first

01:54:40 can I take us back please to the first page and if I could just draw your attention mr. chairman to paragraph 3 first of all yes thank you Maria says this about flat 86 my room

01:54:53 Maria says this about flat 86 my room was the most beautiful room in the flat an idea had decorated the walls with pictures of butterflies and flowers whenever guests came to stay they had their photographs taken in my room

01:55:04 their photographs taken in my room although it was beautiful it was small because it was made up of part of the original living room our landlord separated half of the living room off to make an extra bedroom and there was a

01:55:15 make an extra bedroom and there was a long radiator that was half in my bedroom and half in the living room with a gap in the walls separating the two rooms for the radiator to fit through can I move on in the statement and pick

01:55:26 can I move on in the statement and pick it up please at the next page paragraph 7 & 8

01:55:40 don't need to say very much about paragraph 7 but if we just note that it became very afternoon on the 13th of June I had been shopping and then if I continuous chairman from paragraph 8

01:55:53 continuous chairman from paragraph 8 Maria writes I remember that my father was very happy that evening he really enjoyed the food food and at two plates of rice usually he ate only one plate

01:56:05 of rice usually he ate only one plate often I would say that he should not eat too much because of his diabetes but on that evening he was so happy and I thought that maybe he was supposed to eat more after eating weed ranked

01:56:16 eat more after eating weed ranked there's a reduction there but we drank tea and started to watch TV continue over the next page please paragraph 9 after we finished eating my father was

01:56:29 after we finished eating my father was lying down on the floor and watching television at about midnight he took all of his medication and then went to lie down in the bedroom his medication made

01:56:40 down in the bedroom his medication made him very tired as one of the pills he took was supposed to help him sleep nadia was sleeping in my parents room because she was unwell and so my father went to sleep in my room the beginning

01:56:52 went to sleep in my room the beginning of paragraph ten is redacted but it continues I was also going to go to lie down but my mother said not to go to sleep I took my phone and I laid down on

01:57:03 sleep I took my phone and I laid down on the bed in nyjah's room for an hour my mother stayed in the living room and turned off the TV go to paragraph eleven maybe five or ten minutes later my

01:57:15 maybe five or ten minutes later my mother came to me and said that she could hear things outside the windows were closed but my mother went to the window and opened it to see what was happening and then we move on to

01:57:26 happening and then we move on to paragraph 12 I went and joined my mother and looked out at the living room window when the new windows have been installed they had made them with window sills that were much wider and so we couldn't

01:57:37 that were much wider and so we couldn't see down the sides of the building easily but I could see the shadow of the fire on a tree it was like it was like lightning there are a few people around but not many

01:57:49 but not many as I looked further down I could see the lights and two fire engines next to Behrend and walk at that time it was at about zero zero forty five in the next

01:58:01 about zero zero forty five in the next paragraph Maria continues my mother said we should go downstairs but first I said that I didn't want to because I thought it was just a small fire but I agreed to

01:58:13 it was just a small fire but I agreed to go with her because she insisted we closed all the windows in the flat I went into my room where my father was half asleep and I got my coat but I didn't say anything to my father

01:58:25 but I didn't say anything to my father because I thought he might panic and I did not think that the fire was serious I went to Nadia's room to wake her she was annoyed that I woke her and told me

01:58:36 was annoyed that I woke her and told me to go away and that she didn't care about the fire she had recently had surgery and was recovering and paragraph 14 continues I left with my mother

01:58:47 14 continues I left with my mother we took the keys from my father's coat pocket next to the door I went outside and waited while my mother went back into the flat to wake up my father again while waiting for my mother to come back

01:59:00 while waiting for my mother to come back I pressed the button to call the lift and I opened the door to the stairs there were a few people running down the stairs I spoke to a man I know he asked

01:59:11 stairs I spoke to a man I know he asked me what was happening downstairs I said I didn't know just that there was a fire he had two children with him and his wife and he was carrying nappies because

01:59:23 wife and he was carrying nappies because his baby was small I went back onto the landing and shouted to my mother to ask she was going to come and suggested that I could go alone she said to wait for

01:59:34 I could go alone she said to wait for her and that she would come with me in the next paragraph paragraph 15 Maria states on the landing I also saw someone

01:59:45 states on the landing I also saw someone I did not know come from our neighbor Natasha's flat I now know that the man is Natasha's boyfriend he asked me what was happening I explained that we had

01:59:56 was happening I explained that we had seen a fire and he just laughed and went back into his flat no one knew at that that it was as serious as it was the

02:00:07 that it was as serious as it was the next paragraph paragraph 16 reads when my mother came out onto the landing again the lift was open I said that we should go by the stairs but she needed to go by the lift because it was

02:00:19 to go by the lift because it was difficult for her to go down the stairs inside the lift there was an old lady in a young boy from the top floor who I recognized but did not know he wasn't worried or anything no one was panicking

02:00:32 worried or anything no one was panicking and I couldn't smell or see any smoke the lift was working normally and it stopped on the third floor where there was an Iranian lady who was panicking

02:00:43 was an Iranian lady who was panicking and was saying fire fire and was closing her flat door still though there was no smoke no one got into the lift on the third floor and the door opened again on

02:00:55 third floor and the door opened again on the ground floor I understand that I'm recorded on CCTV as leaving the lift area at around 1:20 as chairman that's all I proposed to read from that

02:01:06 all I proposed to read from that statement but as I've said we've gone a little faster this morning than we expected and that is the evidence for

02:01:19 expected and that is the evidence for this morning there will be a further witness who's coming to give evidence this afternoon so if I if you're content mr. Gerron if I could answer we could just now rise content might not be the

02:01:31 just now rise content might not be the right word but just now some rises to start again at two o'clock with that witness yes well I'm sure people can use the extra are doing other things so if the next witness has been asked to be

02:01:43 the next witness has been asked to be here for two o'clock I think it would be good thing whether she's here or not to break now so I will rise now and we'll resume with the witness of two o'clock

02:01:56 resume with the witness of two o'clock thank you very much thank you very much

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