Testimony from Munira Mahmoud, resident of Flat 25, describing her escape from the 5th floor and the tragic loss of her friend Rania Ibrahim on floor 22
00:00:04 yes just a minute mr. chairman good afternoon and I now call our next witness miss Munir and our mood right
00:00:15 witness miss Munir and our mood right thank you
00:00:51 I swear by Allah I saw that the evidence I'm shocked is that the evidence I shall give shall be the truth shall be the truth the whole truth the whole truth
00:01:08 thank you very much sit down make yourself comfortable all right mr. millet is going to ask you some questions yes it's my mood
00:01:21 questions yes it's my mood can I please ask you to give the enquiry or full-name and can I say first of all a very big thank you to you for coming along here and assisting the inquiry
00:01:34 along here and assisting the inquiry with our investigations it's very important that we hear from you and we're very grateful to you can I also say it may be very difficult for you to give evidence and to relive the events
00:01:47 give evidence and to relive the events of the night and I want to say how sorry I am for the terrible loss of your dear friend Rania Ibrahim I know you were very close to her if you need to break
00:01:59 very close to her if you need to break at any time we can take a break it's not a problem take as long as you like and if I ask questions which are you can't understand that's normally because they're not very good questions and all
00:02:11 they're not very good questions and all you have to do is just say please repeat the question and I can put the question in a different way okay also I should just say that when you're answering a question I am listening
00:02:24 answering a question I am listening the most important thing that's happening is that you're answering the question but if I'm not looking at you it's normally because I'm either looking at my notes or at the screen in front of me which has got what you're saying being written down
00:02:37 now I'm going to focus pretty much on the events of the night to say you know what we're doing now you've provided a witness statement to the inquiry and
00:02:50 witness statement to the inquiry and I'll just say the name of the statement aloud it's iws zero zero zero zero zero five 776 can I ask you to look at that it's on the screen you can either look
00:03:02 it's on the screen you can either look at it on the desk or on the screen at the back of the of the hall if you want is that the first page of your statement yes and can I ask you to turn to page 11
00:03:14 yes and can I ask you to turn to page 11 or be shown page 11 of that statement
00:03:20 and you can see that it's got a date of the bottom 6th of June 2017 and a signature can you confirm that that's your signature yes have you had a chance
00:03:33 your signature yes have you had a chance to read the statement recently yes and can you confirm that the contents are true now I'm going to read into the
00:03:44 true now I'm going to read into the record the exhibits that you've given us and they are exhibit mmm one which is iws 777 page 2 and mm 2 which is iws 777
00:04:01 iws 777 page 2 and mm 2 which is iws 777 page 4 and those are a plan of floor 5 and a map of the grenfell tower area generally now I get just going to make a
00:04:13 generally now I get just going to make a general warning that we will be looking mrs. Furr everybody's benefit at a number of images including photographs of the building taken after the fire and we'll give a specific warning as we go along but we just want to highlight that
00:04:25 along but we just want to highlight that now because some people might find that distressing and if they do then they will be invited to either look away or leave the room can I ask you some
00:04:37 leave the room can I ask you some background questions mrs. malroux first of all and in June 2017 could you tell us where you were living twenty-five grand hotel 25 and in June
00:04:50 twenty-five grand hotel 25 and in June 2017 who was living in flat 25 grand felt our with you myself my husband my
00:05:02 felt our with you myself my husband my two children and by June 2017 do you remember how long you've been living in grenfell tower nearly nine years and how
00:05:16 grenfell tower nearly nine years and how old were your two children at the time of the fire my son was fine when my daughter's one under health and were you
00:05:27 daughter's one under health and were you all in good health at the time of the fire in a way yes because me my husband good health and my son my daughter endo
00:05:38 good health and my son my daughter endo has sickle cell right my father who's got dementia her problem high blood pressure diabetes and many more medical problems yes and do you know were you a
00:05:53 problems yes and do you know were you a tenant of flat 25 yes do you know who you rented the flat from there's no juice within America's mature for the
00:06:05 juice within America's mature for the cosmos all right now let's look at your first exhibit if we can this is my mood its mm one so it's triple seven page two and that is a
00:06:18 it's triple seven page two and that is a plan of floor five in Granville Tower now if we look at this plan are you are you able to point out where your flatters top left
00:06:31 flatters top left so that's facing north and west now on this plan here you've marked Kay as I think your kitchen yes and can you
00:06:45 as I think your kitchen yes and can you tell us what the window of your kitchen looked out on to and immediately below there's a playground and community
00:06:58 there's a playground and community center right which became the reception for the Grand Hotel yes and on the same plan you can see that you've marked a room L what is that room that's the
00:07:13 room L what is that room that's the living room and was there was there a door between the living room in the kitchen yes it was and what sort of door was it was it a an opening door or a sliding door sliding door sliding door
00:07:25 sliding door sliding door sliding door was the sliding door made of do you remember it but and looking at your living room you've got windows on the west side and also windows on the north
00:07:37 west side and also windows on the north side looking towards the top of the diagram and what did they what did the windows on the north side look on to this notion station is it and you've
00:07:52 this notion station is it and you've also got two bedrooms I think not a B and NB and they looked the same way did they look the same way there's two bedrooms yeah
00:08:06 bedrooms yeah and do you remember whether you experienced after 2016 any problems with the windows they did they did fix new
00:08:21 the windows they did they did fix new windows and you had the problem the draft had come through but the quality was not good - it's not closing properly right
00:08:31 right he said the draft would come through do you remember where the draft came came through the windows they didn't say they didn't seal the windows so is it at the
00:08:43 didn't seal the windows so is it at the bottom of the windows on the side okay and which windows in your flat do you think the draft came through the bedroom
00:08:54 think the draft came through the bedroom the two bedroom windows what they want the ones that you've not a B and M D yes yes what about the living room we didn't spend much time at night of the living room so it was okay I see and did you
00:09:10 room so it was okay I see and did you notice draft coming through into the kitchen well the kitchen window is all is open so right okay and did those problems with drafts
00:09:25 and did those problems with drafts coming through the windows that you've described did they exist at the time of the fire in June 2017 I didn't pay attention to it because that time the windows already opened he was hot summer
00:09:36 windows already opened he was hot summer day also did anybody what we ask this did you ask for somebody to come and fix the draft coming through the windows in
00:09:47 the draft coming through the windows in the bedrooms we do do were they fixed no no if we look at the plan we can see that
00:09:59 if we look at the plan we can see that your front door is this right tell me if this is right opened up on to the lobby area by the lifts is that right okay and do you remember whether you had
00:10:12 okay and do you remember whether you had any difficulties opening and shutting the front door well I don't know if is the safety lock that in 2011 2012
00:10:25 the safety lock that in 2011 2012 remember properly we broke the was it the safety hinge because we were locked in and I was pregnant expecting the baby anytime and no one from our because he
00:10:36 anytime and no one from our because he came for TMO came to repair the door since so there was no difficulties at all
00:10:41 all opening up closing the door right so at the time of the fire did the door self closed or did the door with did you have
00:10:52 closed or did the door with did you have to close the door in order to shut it yeah we had to do it minor D it manually right now can I ask you to be shown
00:11:04 right now can I ask you to be shown please paragraph 14 of your statement
00:11:11 you say there that on the 13th of June you say on the day of the fire I dropped my two children to school in the morning with Ronnie Ibrahim and her
00:11:22 the morning with Ronnie Ibrahim and her children and you explained that Ronnie lived at flat 203 on the 22nd floor and you were very close friends my question
00:11:33 you were very close friends my question is did you spend the rest of the day at home on that day not today no we were out shopping and then as usual we went to pick up the kids
00:11:47 we planned to go to the library to read to get the theory book because we're planning to start driving and then we met downstairs at the bottom of the building
00:11:57 building [Music]
00:11:58 [Music] she took my daughter and her older daughter by the swimming pool I had my son and my youngest
00:12:10 [Music]
00:12:21 just taken five minutes to take take your time calm down take your take time done to your time
00:12:40 like some water some water next year
00:12:52 would you like to sit next to yeah that would be good idea
00:13:09 you take whatever time you need when we go home when you're ready
00:13:24 so I took the two kids upstairs my she went to this pleasure Center just across swimming lessons for her daughter my
00:13:35 swimming lessons for her daughter my youngest daughter was in the floor playing with my son eating then she came at 6:45 she took our daughters and they
00:13:47 at 6:45 she took our daughters and they do want to go back upstairs they were begging their mom to stay for a bit longer
00:13:58 it's like comeback repair two more after school she went upstairs
00:14:10 who used to take in trans cooking he was heard about she's getting ready for her husband coming I said I'll cook
00:14:23 I cook the food took for her stairs at 9:30 the kids were already sleeping
00:14:35 she looked at me smiling
00:14:41 not knowing is that last mile of getting from huh
00:14:58 we stood outside the lift for some time sterling aqua Bucky and eight she was telling me no you go downstairs
00:15:12 just messing around like kids losing my sister in the next few hours my friend
00:15:44 she was stood up on the 23rd floor my 22nd
00:15:52 then no one downstairs
00:16:00 my daughter was very less stressed we kept praying you know when you have a feeling something bad is gonna happen
00:16:11 feeling something bad is gonna happen and I'm not expecting that it's not only one person you're going to lose you're going to lose everyone
00:16:34 my daughter fell asleep around 11 o'clock my husband was sleeping in the living room and my father loads in his
00:16:46 living room and my father loads in his room as far as I remember was 12:30 when I had him trying to open the chain on the door that he is going home I said Bubba go back to bed he said no I
00:17:03 I said Bubba go back to bed he said no I want to go home I had a man's voice saying but but to go to bed I shouldn't he was my husband but normally we go and check if there does secure no the door was locked
00:17:19 secure no the door was locked my husband was half asleep going back to my bedroom so my father-in-law looking at the window outside he was very confused then I went to the bedroom the
00:17:33 confused then I went to the bedroom the window I had people shouting screaming get out fire fire fire and I could see my right the flames coming through I
00:17:46 my right the flames coming through I told my husband I won but delivery and I told him wake up there's fire in the building he said it's okay they haven't told us to evacuate I thought let me see
00:17:59 told us to evacuate I thought let me see what's happening outside in the landing
00:18:04 there was firefighter two firefighters on the floor in the fifth floor one of them had mask and it or is it the holes
00:18:19 he told me that is fire you have to leave I told my husband straightaway would have to live and then when I put my baby in the buggy he said you only have two seconds that
00:18:34 he said you only have two seconds that two seconds is ending everything we were lucky that two seconds saved us but those who didn't have the chance for two seconds told me there's no time for
00:18:53 seconds told me there's no time for buggy grab my kids without shoes on in our pajamas
00:19:04 what down the stairs
00:19:10 people are rushing up and down my question was if he started on one flap why wait for the whole building to be buttoned down before they can turn off
00:19:21 buttoned down before they can turn off the fire
00:19:23 the fire people are talking around and saying there is no water we had firefighters coming around without water
00:19:41 take your time let me rush tea they rush to have any of this
00:19:51 can I ask a couple more questions you've told we've got an amazing memory of the detail of the night and that's amazing there's some very interesting things I just want to ask you about told us a lot
00:20:04 just want to ask you about told us a lot told us a lot can I start by asking you it sounds like a funny thing that you might remember it about the temperature in the communal
00:20:15 about the temperature in the communal area but on the landing during the day before the fire did you notice anything about it but it was hot or cold before the fire yeah do you remember hearing
00:20:31 the fire yeah do you remember hearing any noise or fans or anything like that in the communal area no and now you've in your statement if I'll show it to you
00:20:44 in your statement if I'll show it to you that defeated that's okay paragraph eight of her step let's go back to that
00:20:54 you can see that you've referred to up a a sign you say the second line there was a fire health and safety sign somewhere
00:21:05 a fire health and safety sign somewhere in the tower which stated what to do in the event of a fire in the building I just want to ask you about that and we've got a picture and I want to work whether you can identify it it's BL a
00:21:17 whether you can identify it it's BL a quadruple zero two four one six we can just pop that up put that up there is
00:21:26 that the fire health and safety sign that you're talking about in your statement the one I remember was just
00:21:37 statement the one I remember was just basic and kiss-off I do not use lift oh right so not this remember cinder doesn't say assembly point what happens
00:21:48 doesn't say assembly point what happens because of fire hey did you okay do you you never did you never seen the sunlight that's inside Grand Hotel the one I saw was just saying to not use the lift in Custer father
00:21:59 lift in Custer father that's what say okay
00:22:08 you can see from it and if you've never seen it before then it will come as news to you I suppose but did anybody ever explain to you what stay cook meant in
00:22:19 explain to you what stay cook meant in the event of a fire no did you ever get any advice from anybody about what to do in the event of a fire in the building no as at or on the night of the fire
00:22:36 no as at or on the night of the fire thinking about that night what was your understanding about what you as a resident of the building should do if there was a fire in the building
00:22:49 normally you just think you're not looked at or just gonna sit for place in the flock on the other side is you look for this surface place to go the fire
00:23:00 for this surface place to go the fire assembly point which is outside the building right just so I I'm clear in my mind that does that mean that on the night of the fire you thought the safest thing to do would be to leave the
00:23:11 thing to do would be to leave the building if there was a fire in yes thank you thank you and can I also have a look at paragraph 9 of your statement which is on the next which is on the next page you say I knew that if there
00:23:29 next page you say I knew that if there was a fire then the only way out was down the stairs each floor was numbered so you knew where you were though the staircase was far too narrow for emergencies like this there wasn't enough space for people to get down
00:23:41 enough space for people to get down quickly and when you say that the each floor was numbered do you remember how easy it was to be able to see each number for each floor no in that time
00:23:52 number for each floor no in that time when you're panicking you only know it's easy because you're living there if you had guessed if you had people cannot read English you can't recognize the numbers and at that time
00:24:05 recognize the numbers and at that time nobody is looking at numbers everyone is running for safety right did you ever get a chance to look at the numbering in the stairs on different floors yeah did what was it
00:24:19 different floors yeah did what was it like I was crazy it was easy to orient but we only had the chance to do that when they're doing the renovation of the building right the lifts are breaking all the time so we
00:24:32 lifts are breaking all the time so we had to use this tears I see when you use the stairs at that time could you did the numbering help you to know where you
00:24:43 the numbering help you to know where you were in the buildings it did now in paragraph 11 of your statement you say I've never seen I had never seen any
00:24:56 I've never seen I had never seen any smoke alarms in the communal areas of the tower there used to be a fire extinguisher on the ground floor of the tower but this was removed at the beginning of the refurbishment and was
00:25:07 beginning of the refurbishment and was never replaced I was not aware of any fire sprinklers in the tower either now you say you can't remember smoke alarms in the communal area and I just want to
00:25:20 in the communal area and I just want to clarify see you see if I understand that do you mean that you you knew they weren't any or you thought there were you knew they weren't okay now you
00:25:34 you knew they weren't okay now you mentioned a fire extinguisher on the ground floor can you remember where it was kept it's next to the deception right that old receptionist downstairs
00:25:45 right that old receptionist downstairs so before you go into the second door towards the lift he used to be there
00:25:55 and you say it was removed at the beginning of the refurbishment yeah how do you how do you know that okay now can
00:26:09 do you how do you know that okay now can I ask you to look at paragraph 16 of your statement just moving on a page you say and you've told us already a lot about a lot about the the night so I'm
00:26:21 about a lot about the the night so I'm going to keep the questions quite quite short you say that you fell asleep shortly after 11:00 p.m. do you remember whether any windows were
00:26:33 do you remember whether any windows were left open in the flat when you went to sleep that night yes remember which ones all the bedroom windows and the living room windows well right and in paragraph
00:26:46 room windows well right and in paragraph 17 and you say I suddenly woke up you see that it says on the screen I suddenly woke up at around 12:30 a.m.
00:26:57 suddenly woke up at around 12:30 a.m. because I prepared my father-in-law walking around the flat and you say you remember it was around this time because I looked at a clock in my bedroom and
00:27:10 do you remember how long after waking up and seeing the clock did you wake up your husband you remember less than a minute okay it
00:27:24 you remember less than a minute okay it was that but do you remember whether that was before you'd looked out and seen the fire or after before and then in paragraphs 18 and 19 of your statement you described how you moved
00:27:39 statement you described how you moved from your bedroom to the living room and that's your father-in-law's bedroom can I just ask you while you were doing that moving around the flat could you smell anything were you aware of smoke in the
00:27:55 anything were you aware of smoke in the in the air at all
00:28:02 and in paragraph 19 of your statement if you just look at look at that you you say you looked outside the window to try to find out what was going on and you
00:28:14 to find out what was going on and you described somebody shouting get out get out fire fires you told us today as well
00:28:24 how did you have to lean out of the window to see what was going on did you have to lean out of the window in order to see what was going on or could you see it from where you were standing
00:28:38 okay and when you when you looked out could you see your smell smoke just so the flame right what reflected in the Academy how did it
00:28:50 what reflected in the Academy how did it look to you at the time I went burning or in common
00:28:59 now the paragraph 20 you described working up Mohammed you say it was already awake I told him there was a fire and the people were shouting at us
00:29:10 fire and the people were shouting at us from outside telling us to get out he was confused it looked slightly nervous but remain calm he explained to me that we didn't need to evacuate the building for all from our flat because no one had
00:29:21 for all from our flat because no one had told us to do that now did you then go on to say I couldn't understand why no
00:29:32 on to say I couldn't understand why no one had woken us up or not in our door to tell us to leave the tower as people were screaming from outside telling us to get out and did your husband tell you who was supposed to come and knock on
00:29:43 who was supposed to come and knock on your door ok who did who did you think was supposed to come do you remember did you have any thoughts about who who who might come and knock knock on your door but from the firefighters the
00:29:55 door but from the firefighters the neighbors right and did anybody come and knock on your door no
00:30:05 and then you described in your statement at the end of that paragraph you said there was no smoke you know a flat at this point all flames on the outside of our building and then you say in the
00:30:18 our building and then you say in the beginning of the next paragraph I was really worried so I rushed towards the front door had opened it to find out what was going on when I opened the front door I could see smoke all around in the communal area
00:30:30 in the communal area it was dark smoke it was not very thick when I first opened the door but it was starting to build up I could still see through the smoke um first of all do you
00:30:44 through the smoke um first of all do you remember whether there was any smoke coming through your front door when you moved down your hall towards the front door to open it not in the flat okay do
00:30:59 door to open it not in the flat okay do you remember how much time had passed between your waking up at 12:30 and moving towards the front door to open it
00:31:12 and did you go alone to the front or was somebody with you by the time I was behind me my husband was behind right so
00:31:24 behind me my husband was behind right so he was behind you was he okay and when you opened the front door used you've described what you see and you say it was a dark smoke can you tell us any more about the color as I said your
00:31:38 any more about the color as I said your dad but was still see-through could you still see the electric lights in the lobby yes you could could still see someone in front of you okay could you
00:31:50 someone in front of you okay could you could you smell the smoke no you couldn't
00:31:56 and and it's difficult to remember exactly where how far do you think you could see through the smoke when you open the front door you could see the
00:32:07 open the front door you could see the opposite side okay was there anybody in the lobby when you opened the door it was two firefighters apart from that right now nobody is okay and I'm sorry to keep
00:32:22 nobody is okay and I'm sorry to keep asking these detailed questions about the smoke was it closer to the ceiling or did it go all the way down to the floor do you remember not on the floor of the lobby okay and did the smoke have
00:32:38 of the lobby okay and did the smoke have any when you looked at it did it have any physical effect on you no okay now can we look at your mm1 again please
00:32:59 Mart and the plan of the building using this plan if we can mrs. Mallard when you look into the lobby from your front
00:33:12 you look into the lobby from your front door could you see the front doors of the other flats do you think could you see the front doors of the other flats yes you could do you remember whether they were open or closed or closed they
00:33:24 they were open or closed or closed they were closed did you get any sense or idea of where the smoke that you could see in the lobby was coming from if I'm not mistaken maybe number 24 26 maybe 26 you
00:33:43 mistaken maybe number 24 26 maybe 26 you think so why do you why do you think that what did you see that made you think that because when the fire started is right below 26 which was 16 could could you see smoke coming from
00:33:55 could could you see smoke coming from the door of 26 rainbows Russian okay
00:34:09 now in your statement we can get back to it hey you okay to carry on do you think Thanks okay and paragraph 21 you go on
00:34:21 Thanks okay and paragraph 21 you go on to say we just get back to that paragraph you want to say there were there were fire hoses on the floor in the communal area
00:34:32 the communal area - there were two firefighters in the communal area and they started pulling the hoses connected to the dry riser one firefighter was pulling the hose and the
00:34:43 firefighter was pulling the hose and the other was banging on other flat doors telling people to leave they both had masks on it was clear that the hoses were not working I assumed that they
00:34:54 were not working I assumed that they were already connected to the dry rises at this point that I could not see properly can you were you able to see
00:35:05 properly can you were you able to see the dry riser from where you were standing when you open the front door
00:35:18 they remember okay
00:35:23 when you open the front door do you remember what the temperature in the lobby was like outside your flange it was hot it was hot was it hotter than the nothing they
00:35:35 was it hotter than the nothing they would normally be fun oh did you hear the noise of a fan or smoke extraction
00:35:47 the noise of a fan or smoke extraction system or something like that
00:35:55 and
00:35:59 you then say at the bottom of the paragraph three lines up from the end there were no fire alarms going off in the communal areas I would have expected them to go up to go off as they were smoking the communal area and did you
00:36:14 smoking the communal area and did you think that they were fire alarms in the communal area okay so so just wonder why
00:36:26 communal area okay so so just wonder why because you say in your statement you would have expected the fire alarms to go off because they were smell was oh I see right so if there had been you would have expected them to work right and
00:36:42 have expected them to work right and then you told us this afternoon and in your statement as well that paragraph 22 that the firefighter told do you have two seconds to get out and I know they
00:36:55 two seconds to get out and I know they were both wearing full breathing apparatus but do you remember whether it was the firefighter pulling the hose or the firefighter knocking on the doors that told you that there are no
00:37:08 that told you that there are no commander doors they were knocking on the doors okay then I think you went back into your flat after that as you said have you told us how much time do
00:37:19 said have you told us how much time do you think passed between your game back into the flat and what ofter the firefighter had told you to leave and you actually leaving your flat was less
00:37:32 you actually leaving your flat was less than a minute because I just dropped my daughter who kind of like the bug is right next to the door and the distance from the door to the bedroom is two steps three steps
00:37:44 steps three steps okay okay
00:37:50 mr. Chairman I think mrs. moon if this is all right we take a short break and hard work for you I think no and from us
00:38:02 hard work for you I think no and from us as well
00:38:04 as well so maybe 10-minute break would be good just tell me how you're getting on I'm doing very well mr. chairman we've got some more detailed questions yes to look at well it would be good to have a break under at this point we'll stop
00:38:16 break under at this point we'll stop until five to three and I'm going to ask you to get the usher in a moment I had to ask you not to talk to and run about your evidence why they're after the world you gave it and you gave it yes
00:38:33 world you gave it and you gave it yes just go he'll take you out
00:38:46 alright 5 to sweeten please
00:53:29 she's on her way back in thank you very much mr. chairman
00:53:56 you either need to carry on this is money thank you for coming back to us thank you
00:54:05 thank you I want to ask you now about and the moment when you left your flat with your family when you left your flat do you remember whether there was any smoke
00:54:16 remember whether there was any smoke beginning to come into it no definite in the flat name and then you went into the lobby outside your flat now in your statement of paragraph
00:54:28 flat now in your statement of paragraph 23 you say and let's just have it up on the screen please you say I walked with my children I agreed and walked with my
00:54:39 my children I agreed and walked with my children towards the fire door to the stairwell the smoke in the lobby was getting thicker and the firemen were still knocking on my neighbor's doors on
00:54:50 still knocking on my neighbor's doors on our floor um now I just want to ask you about the smoke getting flicker in the lobby um do you remember how much thicker it was when you went out into it
00:55:03 thicker it was when you went out into it having left your flat than when you first saw it the fire when I saw it was the smoke was there but when I say was
00:55:14 the smoke was there but when I say was the-- cuz you could you could tell they you know there's more smoke coming through now and getting dark and ugly right was it but he was 10 seconds from
00:55:28 right was it but he was 10 seconds from the door to the stairs and my mind meditation was to get downstairs get my kids to safety yes of course did you notice whether they were still up though it was still
00:55:40 they were still up though it was still less thick towards the floor when their stairs down years in the lobby there yes in the lobby area or outside your flat was it was it less thick towards the floor yes it was
00:55:52 floor yes it was did you notice them at that time when you were crossing the lobby to go to the stairs where the smoke was coming from no I mean maybe as I said 26 because on
00:56:06 no I mean maybe as I said 26 because on the other side does nothing Lissie and oh did you see any residence or other people in the lot in the lobby
00:56:19 or other people in the lot in the lobby outside your flat when you when you went across no now you say in the same paragraph three lines down
00:56:30 paragraph three lines down I opened the fire door and started walking down the stairs as quick as I could
00:56:34 could the door did not automatically shut behind me and was left open um could you just tell us what you mean by fire door
00:56:46 just tell us what you mean by fire door would you describe the far door that you're referring to as far as my understanding fire is it doesn't it's there's easy accessible in and out you
00:56:58 there's easy accessible in and out you open it and it just swings he doesn't look but then this was just stuck to the wall and people just coming up right so this is the door into the stairs yes was
00:57:10 this is the door into the stairs yes was it open it was right and you say it didn't autumn you say didn't automatically show up behind me and was left open
00:57:21 left open was there something preventing it from shutting or was it just hanging open right did you notice anything on the floor that was keeping the door open
00:57:33 normally do you remember whether the door would be open or shut used to be sure usually shut yes okay
00:57:49 do you remember ever using that door into the stairs before the fire yes and do you remember what whether it was it would automatically shut whether you used it
00:58:02 automatically shut whether you used it now we'll just push it and pull it to close it behind us when you're going up or down right this is the door into the stairs yes and you'd have to close it behind you would you yes so it didn't
00:58:13 behind you would you yes so it didn't automatically shut right okay now when you all get when you're in the stairwell
00:58:24 you all get when you're in the stairwell you're walking down did you feel any change in temperature in the air did you
00:58:42 change in temperature in the air did you did you feel any sensation of air blowing against you on your face no now you say in the same paragraph paragraph
00:58:54 you say in the same paragraph paragraph 23 the lights were on in the stairwell and I remember seeing smoke in the stairs and can you describe for us where the smoke was in the stairs it was on
00:59:07 the smoke was in the stairs it was on the fourth floor but when we went down there's nothing right so you came down from above yeah so did it get thicker as you well can you tell
00:59:18 it get thicker as you well can you tell me say so from the fifth floor downwards until the fourth floor there was there was smoke but and in the third floor he was this second floor at first floor
00:59:31 was this second floor at first floor ground floor nothing okay and do you remember where the smoke was was it higher up and lower down it was just in the air nice much bugs in the air
00:59:43 in the air nice much bugs in the air did it have a color okay could you breathe okay yeah yes did he make you did he make you cough at all no
01:00:02 now do you remember hearing when you were in the stairs did you or do you remember hearing like a fan noise or vent or anything like that no now if you
01:00:15 vent or anything like that no now if you go to paragraph 24 you say group in the second and third lines I saw a lot of other residents from the tower walking
01:00:27 other residents from the tower walking past me a lot of them looked quite concerned and worried but I did not recognize any of them and can you remember roughly how many residents you
01:00:41 remember roughly how many residents you saw in the stairs at that time
01:00:45 turned 11 just people just coming down right because their quotes are where they're coming down from above you
01:00:56 they're coming down from above you yes right did you do you talk to them no everyone is rushing back right did you recognize any of them no did you
01:01:08 did you recognize any of them no did you know which floors they'd come down from no okay
01:01:12 no okay did they have any difficulty breathing or they coughing I can't I couldn't see that all just rushing down did did they
01:01:25 that all just rushing down did did they slow you down when I was calling my daughter and holding my son so yeah I was slow attending yeah but the days let you down yeah do you remember whether you saw any
01:01:36 do you remember whether you saw any firefighters in the stairs No
01:01:42 now at paragraph 25 of your statement you say that in the fourth line I tried to walk out of the side entrance but I
01:01:56 to walk out of the side entrance but I was told to walk after the main entrance to exit the tower with my two children do you remember who told you to get out of the main entrance those residents one
01:02:08 of the main entrance those residents one of them was on the first floor landing and then just beside the stairs and her mom was next to the main entrance right
01:02:19 mom was next to the main entrance right do you normally use the side entrance well the problem was very confusing when they put the tutors sometime you could use the main door they actually use decide to sometime use decide do they
01:02:32 decide to sometime use decide do they tell you use the main door so I thought he was easy just to turn on my left to go through the side turn right that's when the woman told me this were this
01:02:44 when the woman told me this were this were the main door okay so do you have did you have to go through the glass door at the foot of the stairs to get into the lobby yes did you need a bulb
01:02:55 into the lobby yes did you need a bulb to get out the key fob no was it you did you do before the five years but then that time the door was already open of
01:03:07 that time the door was already open of course
01:03:10 now when you got into the lobby do you remember hearing the noise that of a fan or vent or something like that no what was the temperature in the lobby
01:03:22 no what was the temperature in the lobby the main lobby like do you remember at that time he was hold back until the temperature was hotter than usual was it hotter than before in the same evening
01:03:34 hotter than before in the same evening yes so so just like so I'm cleared so it was hotter than it was earlier on in the same night yes
01:03:49 and when you left the tower did anybody tell you where to go and wait it's just the the residents were helping telling us to go round to meet by the Leisure
01:04:02 us to go round to meet by the Leisure Centre all right did anybody ask you to confirm your flat number and and and how many people you had with you know nobody asked you whether you'd left anybody behind in the flat no now I'm going to
01:04:17 behind in the flat no now I'm going to ask you some questions next about your contact on that night with your very different runya as you after you came out of the tower say okay yes okay we'll
01:04:31 out of the tower say okay yes okay we'll see how we go and if you need a break again we can we can take another break now you've explained in your statement that you left your phone behind and your
01:04:43 that you left your phone behind and your husband didn't have runners when his number yeah and so you had to call other friends to get the number can I go to paragraph 35 of your statement
01:05:00 and you say I called Runyon at around 3:00 a.m. outside my friend's house how
01:05:12 3:00 a.m. outside my friend's house how do you how do you remember that it was 3:00 a.m. it was just roughly because you hung around for quite some time since we left it to Tom okay so that was
01:05:25 since we left it to Tom okay so that was my rough estimate of timing all right and you go on to describe your conversation and the fourth line of your
01:05:36 conversation and the fourth line of your statement you say she said to me thank god you're alive I asked her what was going on and she told me it was very dark did she tell you what was dark so
01:05:50 dark did she tell you what was dark so there was no light dose smoke right in her flat yes
01:05:58 did she did she tell you what else was happening in the in her flat
01:06:10 it was a quick corn I do want to keep her down on the phone all I wanted was her to come down I was responsible for her as my daughter and
01:06:23 responsible for her as my daughter and her kids as my children so when she was happy I was alive I was thinking okay calm down
01:06:34 calm down just both be alive she said no they told her to stay at the help is coming when
01:06:46 her to stay at the help is coming when she heard the helicopter we all are shown they are there to help them could share the people debugger on her neighbors but Rania being rubbish she
01:07:01 neighbors but Rania being rubbish she would believe anyone
01:07:08 she would have come down because I believe that some people survived after 303 a.m. but she didn't she respected
01:07:22 303 a.m. but she didn't she respected and trusted and believed that they are coming to rescue them and that risk you'll never come
01:07:40 you know we just just take
01:08:14 oh you were right tutorial thank you
01:08:23 I've just got one more question this is this is my mood say it's on the same paragraph and
01:08:36 she said and this is halfway down your paragraph you saying she told me that the roof door was locked it's about half
01:08:47 the roof door was locked it's about half just below halfway down the paragraph paragraph 35
01:08:55 just below the 999 number
01:09:01 and that they were sending help as she could see a helicopter I just want to ask you one question about about about that and did she remember her telling
01:09:14 that and did she remember her telling you how she knew the door to the roof was logged I didn't maybe people went up there they didn't succeed they came back down because you used to have a lot of
01:09:28 down because you used to have a lot of teenage boys coming some homeless people coming home so was always locked right
01:09:45 coming home so was always locked right because nobody would get access on top of their room this is Marie Dunn I've got no further questions for you there may be other questions my team
01:09:57 there may be other questions my team might want me to ask you or other other lawyers in the room might want me to ask you as well so I'm gonna ask if it's okay and it asked the Chairman to take another break for a few minutes and then
01:10:09 another break for a few minutes and then and then come back is that Alright five minutes likely to be enough yes mr. chair
01:10:31 20 plus 3
01:17:48 yes just a minute mr. chairman just one or two questions left of course okay yes this is not good to come back empty
01:18:10 right
01:18:13 I think mr. millet has a couple of questions if you're alright to carry on for a bit it's not this is lovely thank
01:18:25 for a bit it's not this is lovely thank you for coming back to us um I just have one or two questions for you you mentioned that Rania didn't cook on the night of the fire because her husband was returning the next day and do you
01:18:38 was returning the next day and do you know where he was returning from from Egypt from Egypt did you know what he was doing in Egypt had some funding issues that I understand you've been
01:18:51 issues that I understand you've been very helpful indeed in your written witness statement and in your evidence to the chairman today and we're all extremely grateful um can I ask a general question is there anything
01:19:02 general question is there anything further additional that you would wish to tell the Chairman about the events of that night would she think that it's important for the Chairman to know
01:19:20 [Music] well you've told us a great deal and we are grateful yes well mrs. Mahmud can i express our gratitude on my behalf and
01:19:31 express our gratitude on my behalf and on behalf of the entire inquiry team for your coming here today and assisting us with our investigations we do hugely appreciate it so thank you very much indeed well as mr. millet said it it
01:19:42 indeed well as mr. millet said it it really very helpful me we are very grateful
01:19:44 grateful you had an awful experience and a very distressing time and I can Kasturi very distressing for you and I think we will understand how difficult it's been for you to come talk about these things
01:19:55 for you to come talk about these things so we're particularly grateful because your evidence is really valuable to us thank you we'll get the justice because
01:20:06 thank you we'll get the justice because there's a vintage applause people this is for them and no one else every single day I did the last minute fighting for
01:20:19 day I did the last minute fighting for justice
01:20:21 justice all those innocent people
01:20:25 my children Ronnie's children are my children
01:20:29 children well you've certainly helped everybody by coming to give us your evidence my hope is gone uncle father thank you thank you very much thank you very much
01:20:40 thank you very much thank you very much with you would you like to go with the I sure she'll look after you now
01:21:00 yes mr. millet well now it's the Chairman we we were going to spend the rest of the afternoon reading some statements yes from witnesses who provided extremely helpful and valuable
01:21:12 provided extremely helpful and valuable witness statements for reasons I needn't go into now we are not I'm afraid able to do that and I'll be able to update you and and everybody else in
01:21:25 update you and and everybody else in this room I hope very shortly but something arose after hours on Friday night which is meant that that would be an unwise course to follow today say I
01:21:36 an unwise course to follow today say I hope to be able to provide some further updates about what we propose to do about statements such as days to during tomorrow if possible we will then continue if we may tomorrow morning with
01:21:48 continue if we may tomorrow morning with our next oral witness who is Merrill mechelen who I think mr. Rawat will take during tomorrow morning right how old the back tomorrow afternoon tomorrow afternoon we break now and resume at 10
01:22:01 afternoon we break now and resume at 10 o'clock tomorrow morning yes thank you right well I'm sorry that we can't take any further evidence this afternoon but we'll resume tomorrow with another
01:22:14 we'll resume tomorrow with another witness from the tower and we'll do that at 10 o'clock then please thank you very much 10 o'clock tomorrow