London Fire Brigade operational evidence examining bridgehead procedures, FSG call handling, and command decisions during the early stages of the fire.
00:10:03 [Music]
00:10:30 mareko certainly is thank you sent them just a few more questions I think yes mr. Sadler thank you for coming back to us can I get back to the photograph we
00:10:42 us can I get back to the photograph we were looking at just before we broke for lunch which is met triple zero one five eight one three and the picture that you took now in terms
00:11:03 the picture that you took now in terms of the timing of that can you see that the photograph on the right which we've just begun to discuss start with the time in at 9:44 at the top and can you
00:11:17 time in at 9:44 at the top and can you help us with with that was that there that grid at the time you left no so the grid on the left as we
00:11:31 left no so the grid on the left as we look at it this square two rectangles I drew that
00:11:35 drew that the yellow crosses across it they weren't there I do believe are started crossing off the lower floors that weren't affected by the fire the one on the right with
00:11:48 by the fire the one on the right with the writing I was back at my fire engine but Oh 940 for ITV I left the bridgehead when okay doing that no crews are being committed when I left
00:11:59 no crews are being committed when I left their bridgehead you set some backup enter control okay so just so that we can be clear about the sequence of events you go up to the fourth of it first of all when you get to the fourth
00:12:10 first of all when you get to the fourth floor you're told you have to make a plan so you draw the wall on the left that's correct yes well then in your statement and this is what I just wanted to pick up with you in your second statement you say in the third paragraph
00:12:23 statement you say in the third paragraph I carried on with entry control for about two hours and I believe I was relieved at 11:00 a.m. first of all is your recollection correct
00:12:34 correct you were relieved at 11 a.m. you think
00:12:47 it's on the screen if you need to look at it thank you this is the this is your second good obviously I totally forgot about this events yeah
00:12:58 about this events yeah and I asked the Met Police to come back and take the statement did I set up edge control well let let me see if I can
00:13:09 control well let let me see if I can just helps you a bit more if you go to your second statement it you say in the third paragraph I carried on with entry
00:13:21 third paragraph I carried on with entry control for about two hours at them I believed I was relieved at 11:00 a.m. and that's sorry you know we're not sure seeing the right one on the screen is the third paragraph not the fourth
00:13:33 the third paragraph not the fourth paragraph there I carried on with inter control for about two hours and I believe I was relieved at 11 a.m. now was that when you say I was relieved at 11 a.m. was that and then you go on to
00:13:48 11 a.m. was that and then you go on to say around this time it was decided to regroup pull all crews out and move the bridgehead back up to the fourth floor so this is this say okay so this is a current miscommunication in my statement
00:14:00 current miscommunication in my statement my guns it's been hard revisiting this and when the police come after a lot of speaking to them you just want it over a thus slightly inaccurate in terms of the
00:14:12 thus slightly inaccurate in terms of the bridgehead was in the lobby we would really painted a bridgehead to the fourth floor I drew the plan and I left a bridgehead as they started recommitting for crews to the upper floors right so let's see if we can pieces together slightly
00:14:23 if we can pieces together slightly slightly better then but then by using the police statement can you go to your contemporaneous note and just look at page 3 of that
00:14:36 that's a meaty quadruple zero five five six five and just at the very end there you say you say around 11:00 a.m. I was
00:14:48 you say you say around 11:00 a.m. I was relieved from EC o at the bridgehead and left the incident so when you were relieved from the e Co at the bridgehead
00:14:59 relieved from the e Co at the bridgehead and left the incident where was the bridgehead at that stage I think my timeframes wrong there because I would have left in or around that time I can't
00:15:12 have left in or around that time I can't remember setting up bridgehead and committing crews from the fourth floor we just really relocated they put fresh and control offices in that that make
00:15:23 and control offices in that that make sense so I was in the lobby we're committing crews smokey ei is from the fourth floor we would relocate the bridgehead to the fourth floor whilst relocating carrying the ball was
00:15:34 whilst relocating carrying the ball was up there they put fresh and control operators on the boards they asked me to all the plan I drew the pan and I left the fourth floor I see okay and when you left the fourth floor where you was at
00:15:47 left the fourth floor where you was at the end of your involvement of grenfell I left I went to the command units to see if because a lot of release to come on from the daywatch then they were getting there by various means there's
00:15:58 getting there by various means there's no fire engines to bring them right yeah so when resources are in place I've received my fallback from the commissioner at least see you and we left incentive patterns and fire station okay so I'm just trying to get a
00:16:09 okay so I'm just trying to get a timeframe so I can get back to the plan met triple zero one five eight one three Oh as to win a ranek 45 you do that
00:16:22 Oh as to win a ranek 45 you do that hey around 8:45 be close I remember looking at my watch running four to five we closed down the entrance hole off enter control at in the lobby in the
00:16:34 enter control at in the lobby in the lobby of the bottom the mezzanine and relocate to the fourth floor so whatever time it took to relocate and set this back up get fresh we're ease up there twenty thirty minutes and then that kind of started again okay
00:16:46 of started again okay now that's at 8:45 were you still there when the information on the right-hand side of this picture right next to the grid you drew started to be filled out
00:16:58 grid you drew started to be filled out no I don't remember that crew magic been math alone he was with me so his memory might be a bit better but unless I've totally frozen that my memory which I totally forgot about this in my original
00:17:09 totally forgot about this in my original statements because it just everything it took part I got a piece back so right so looking at the first time in recorded on the grid on the right-hand side of the picture which is it looks like Oh
00:17:21 the picture which is it looks like Oh 940 4400 perhaps the earliest one is earlier actually its own 921 a bit that
00:17:32 earlier actually its own 921 a bit that maybe that their crews returning it doesn't matter do you think you were new her left the fourth floor by the by that time I'm almost certain I take you're making me
00:17:44 almost certain I take you're making me question myself now but I'm almost certain I'd remember crews being committed okay all right yeah okay those times they look like they were
00:17:55 times they look like they were time in a knot time out say and we'll obviously have to ask whoever it was who drew that but that looks like that there this time back to the trip to the bridge no they're not time from the bridge head
00:18:06 no they're not time from the bridge head serve the purpose that you would quite time in rather than time out because timing is more important to know rather than when they've left we just cross from opposite looks like what they've done the same systems we had downstairs across their names off on the left-hand
00:18:18 across their names off on the left-hand side
00:18:18 side time out it doesn't really serve a purpose time is the most imperative things who want to know how long they've been in there what the duration ever cylinders are right okay
00:18:33 you mentioned firefighter Macallan on see a crew manager he is at my station resident in the station and he was one that was he one of the firefighters who accompanied you on your on your pump he
00:18:49 accompanied you on your on your pump he was in charge at the pump hotel to to to to to to to do you remember speaking to any of your watch members either during or after the incident about any rescues
00:19:02 or after the incident about any rescues on floor 14 random esta we might've but again it's quite an emotional sensitive situation for them and I having to go
00:19:14 situation for them and I having to go into specifics of locations but my watch at Lambeth carried out multiple rescues on the upper floors in the early stages of fire right
00:19:27 of fire right can I ask you to be shown a section or part of a video clip taken by a police
00:19:40 part of a video clip taken by a police body worn camera aviod adjusted timestamp
00:19:44 timestamp of Oh two thirteen and three seconds you just can't require any form of warning
00:19:55 now can you see the can you identify these in that picture that's crude magic that's P yes there's
00:20:08 that's crude magic that's P yes there's a watch manager there I can see by his markings yes I don't know who that is his helmets there as well right as far as help you see that don't see a police officer there this location looks
00:20:21 police officer there this location looks like we might be back at the I'm not too sure actually it's hard to see that like I can't reference where we are that's a corner gram course heroin ODS were you wearing your helmet well doing the FSG
00:20:32 wearing your helmet well doing the FSG on the car bonnet I'm pretty bad at wearing my habits be fair sir it's hard to hear so unless I was forced to wear I wouldn t wear a helmet right can I just show one more to you which is
00:20:46 can I just show one more to you which is it adjusted time to 1301
00:20:54 ah that's it now if you look at the car and look at the bonnet can you help with who it is that we see there okay and
00:21:13 who it is that we see there okay and that adjusted is by now which we have two for this body worn footage now puts you on the car bonnet at o2 13 which is the time we saw in fact for the first of
00:21:24 the time we saw in fact for the first of the white forms we looked at this morning
00:21:26 morning that's correct so yes and that would tally with your recollection with it yes and I think that over to 13 FS control information form was numbered right if
00:21:37 information form was numbered right if that is numbered that further support line number secrets in taking place on the top on it right and that's the car is it the bonnet of which you were working on as yes it's a little bit further underneath the wheels covered
00:21:48 further underneath the wheels covered bit then stated are you see Paddington's area on the left hand side there's the turntable that's a turntable idea which
00:21:59 turntable that's a turntable idea which this now housed and they disconnected that hose and put it back underneath the this part because it was catching far from debri right and you'll see just one
00:22:11 from debri right and you'll see just one more question you'll see in the middle by the pillar or a front of the pillar a an officer with a white helmet and what looks like a white Tabard do you
00:22:22 looks like a white Tabard do you remember seeing an officer in a white helmet and white tie rod and there's a lot of officers there with what happens when they're wearing at the a set which would which could have that's not me
00:22:34 would which could have that's not me because when I was there is a lot more crowded than as a 20 30 firefighters formula as we see on the left hand side you can see them up on the mezzanine waiting to be committed and to carry out rescues yes so I don't know who that is
00:22:47 rescues yes so I don't know who that is wearing that table art I will be at that table on it okay thank you
00:22:58 mr. Sadler thank you very much indeed and think of your patients they've been extremely helpful but I just want to say how grateful I am to you for coming to the inquiry today and assisting and me with my questions and I have left other
00:23:10 with my questions and I have left other questions for you that there may be a question mark which arises from the original fast survival guidance documents which we have yet to receive but if if then if there are any further
00:23:22 but if if then if there are any further questions we will take that up with other people thank you sir just like being a quest to hear that this file is an unprecedented fire than something I've never witnessed before wins the apps as I saw the
00:23:34 before wins the apps as I saw the firefighters on that day was fast passed and I think I've ever seen and the bravery in the how courageous they were working outside of operational procedures to save sample life makes me
00:23:45 procedures to save sample life makes me proud to be their colleague yes well thank you very much and I'd echo what mr. Miller says we're very grateful to you for coming to give your evidence dealing with some FSG cause is obviously
00:23:56 dealing with some FSG cause is obviously a very important aspect of all this and one which we haven't entirely found easy to get on top off so we're particularly grateful to you for coming to explain it thank you sir before you before you go
00:24:08 thank you sir before you before you go mr. seta can I just correct one thing like when I talk about the originals of the FSG forms we were looking at before it may be necessary to come back and ask you some further questions about them if
00:24:19 you some further questions about them if they are absolutely necessary I just want to make sure that everybody in the room understands that but I hope it won't be necessary okay thank you tom thank you you wouldn't mind doing that if we really needed your help would you and if I can
00:24:31 needed your help would you and if I can do to help really like to win volunteer myself if I have to then these must yes thank you very much and go with the I'll show you a little time
00:24:49 now mr. millet the next witnesses the next witnesses watch manager - Silvo in Chelsea now may be sensible telephone you know if we need any reorganization -
00:25:01 you know if we need any reorganization - furniture we met I think we didn't email so it's no rise well if I bring it together if you would do is mr. chairman that would be very helpful
00:25:18 you