Module 6 Day 45 - Wednesday 5th May 2021 (2/3)

Full transcript

00:06:58 yes mr. Relin we raised the carry-on we are chairman good thank you

00:07:31 yes when you were in Manila thank you mrs. Quang thank you for coming back calm and gentle what I'm

00:07:42 coming back calm and gentle what I'm going to ask madam interpreter to explain to you now is that I'm going to ask you some questions about the night of the fire itself if I need to show you

00:08:01 of the fire itself if I need to show you a statement it will be your English language statement your are you may be thinking so if at any time you want to

00:08:13 thinking so if at any time you want to see the translation if that will help you please tell us your zone they don't go up I'm doing why are they hiding if I do show you the statement I'm going to

00:08:26 do show you the statement I'm going to ask the interpreter just to translate those parts of the statement that I read out and then to translate the question I

00:08:42 out and then to translate the question I asked and finally to translate back to us your answer in full don't they get the babylonians I finally got a pen

00:08:57 because you've already provided a detailed statement I don't need to ask you about everything that's already in it yuanba dogu-chan safe guerra jingle - how convenient come so you know what

00:09:09 how convenient come so you know what they were eaten will you let the women and I asked to be put up on the screen then I WS five zeros 86 0 80 I WS six

00:09:24 then I WS five zeros 86 0 80 I WS six zeros 80 page 15 please could you when they go up in Mapo Chile

00:09:43 mrs. Krank this is a plan of your flat guanosine nights ahead lady gaga you gay pink mint or we can see that

00:09:54 you gay pink mint or we can see that there's a bedroom marked one yet I doubted ya coca-cola it's a DK jr. gong' phone so you fall can you confirm that that was the bedroom that you were using on the night

00:10:06 bedroom that you were using on the night of the fire there are more young thing being awed attend via Galvan yeah poco garnets are they dumb man if I could see how younger so phone thunder

00:10:17 could see how younger so phone thunder cell phone so where is number one I kind of know you go do you mean the one in

00:10:29 of know you go do you mean the one in the red one in the red yes we talked to her homesick the other you go home early dawn myseif ass spanger so far yes and we can see next door there's

00:10:43 far yes and we can see next door there's a room marked two and two is circled in red gardenia gonna yeahö hong-sik go home cigar lounge again yeah that's the second bedroom

00:10:55 again yeah that's the second bedroom and was that the bedroom that van kwang-ho would use when he stayed no mangu that the legal team for Sanjay Mahoney Dolan yes he was think this is

00:11:09 Mahoney Dolan yes he was think this is it right that your bedroom number one was the closest to the front door they don't own either ego so if I had Joey cheap and got in Manila yes he was the

00:11:24 cheap and got in Manila yes he was the closest we can see on that plan next to the number seven circled in red is the number 31 they'd already go penguin told

00:11:36 number 31 they'd already go penguin told you mean our chat hole Kogelo and a homesick chapel Godsey Kogelo died ere the new Samsung your hole and the plan says that that is a smoke alarm

00:11:47 the plan says that that is a smoke alarm in your hallway later hurry they wanted something I wanna leave ego Pomodoro yeah go John

00:11:59 Pomodoro yeah go John yes that's correct in your statement you tell us that you were woken up by the noise of an alarm in the hallway was it the alarm that's marked 31 having

00:12:12 was it the alarm that's marked 31 having a Tinkham Simonelli tights Iguala Lehigh because cover for king jeongjo's anger it's a highly example corner

00:12:24 it's a highly example corner yes that's wrong when I open my door it stopped before before we get to opening

00:12:36 stopped before before we get to opening the door can I ask you this mrs. Quang when you were woken up by the noise of that alarm was there any smoke in your bedroom I

00:12:48 was there any smoke in your bedroom I know the Mundell wine user they took formal teaching now someone Daria you're on magnetite sorry miss eternity cooking John hunger see how tongs they got a phone a PMO he in molar you know no

00:13:02 phone a PMO he in molar you know no smoke do you remember if before you had gone to bed that night or when you went to bed that night whether there were any windows in your flat that were left open

00:13:14 windows in your flat that were left open making you late on one phone call teaching leading t-totally cocon they call computer leap in no more teacher at our table

00:13:26 no none of the windows were opened

00:13:31 you've just told us that you stepped out into the hallway and the and the alarm stopped did you notice any smoke in the hallway making my wallet a chilly go go

00:13:43 hallway making my wallet a chilly go go to our long Isola Coco walking don't tell thing Joe don't see there more fighting Doha Qatar Motor Lodge agin motor home window

00:13:55 Lodge agin motor home window if also they are pulling at her moon no I walked through the kitchen and I could see through the window of the kitchen that the fire was about halfway on at

00:14:06 that the fire was about halfway on at the window I'll come back to the kitchen in the moment I enjoyed only Gong Gong a chief our model staying with when you were in the hallway hmm

00:14:17 were in the hallway hmm we can see on the plan that your kitchen is marked with the number four in red with a circle around it okay fine I go it's all on the daughter they go and

00:14:28 it's all on the daughter they go and shavonne my savior hotel they're homesick no more say over mmm-hmm and you can walk from your hallway to your kitchen can't you know yeah that's how long do at your hand what you thought

00:14:39 long do at your hand what you thought okay now we Mormons on the plan don't you

00:14:43 you I walk about halfway down I didn't walk complete do you remember if you had a door on your kitchen did your kitchen have a door making anything there's

00:14:58 have a door making anything there's always a door but that's always opened

00:15:02 when you came out into the hallway did you switch any lights on in the hallway they took they got so long I saw him I saw I got don't need to holler daddy my

00:15:13 saw I got don't need to holler daddy my whole job they don't know today I need them home

00:15:18 them home yes I turn on the switch on the lights and so that was was the hallway illuminated by a light am I taking off don't know hey anyway don't eat anyway

00:15:33 yes I turn on the lights and it was they were liked and you told us that you you didn't go all the way into the kitchen you walked about halfway towards it is

00:15:44 you walked about halfway towards it is that right there are any more GG we have borne the window looking for yes I I could see the fire but I was just half way down don't us the kitchen come on go

00:15:57 way down don't us the kitchen come on go home then I went backward I went the other way

00:16:01 other way we can see a number there are different numbers on the plan can you use any number as a marker to tell us how close

00:16:12 number as a marker to tell us how close you got to the kitchen maybe I know y'all don't don't get home I had to go penguin told Shawn be no no no you are a bigger than 10 you heard I kapeniak all right see Dora you go home I don't know

00:16:25 right see Dora you go home I don't know handle turns over yeah it's about the words apart it's a path up as a parts of block code over okay you're the war what about you I walked down to a spice about

00:16:36 about you I walked down to a spice about number 18 and then I stopped and say there was a fire I want to now show you a photograph which was taken of the

00:16:48 a photograph which was taken of the inside of the tower after the fire it's not distressing Oh perfect yep gotta be a little legal it took a

00:16:59 yep gotta be a little legal it took a whole pack and to explain it's a it's a photograph of a kitchen window in flat

00:17:10 photograph of a kitchen window in flat 13 you're gonna hate they use some sound hole phone get you phone get Cho so as

00:17:21 hole phone get you phone get Cho so as I've said mr. Germany it's not a distressing images one we've shown before but could I have please VLA are seven zeros three and then page 23 of that document thank you

00:17:32 that document thank you we're or what top innards are lingering we also got a mocha come on idea phobia it little missus crime is

00:17:43 idea phobia it little missus crime is this what your kitchen window looked like they got you for dojo may I come on young girl yes in your kitchen did you have anything in front of the

00:17:54 did you have anything in front of the window I only got you've only been now like a chunky be ammonium pavilion I had they leave the worm a little bit but I'm hat

00:18:06 there are coconuts and pence oh oh we got holy Toledo yoga my go away

00:18:15 so under the table in front of the window there's a microwave oven in his statement van kwang-ho says there was a

00:18:27 statement van kwang-ho says there was a fridge in front of the kitchen window was there a fridge in front of the window a whole sangha think only beam comminuted wall there how can it be Wanna Go Go chanting be New York of

00:18:39 Wanna Go Go chanting be New York of quite hanayashiki quite pitiful that's a fridge but the fridge was just just touching the left side of the

00:18:51 just touching the left side of the window it wasn't in front of the window as such so would it be right to say that the fridge didn't look very much of the window oh yeah my ingo I think Oh God

00:19:03 window oh yeah my ingo I think Oh God she quite up English or don't talk about Coco charmoula the only holy a holy heart oh yeah we got so many heart anyway somebody a horse a horse you see

00:19:16 anyway somebody a horse a horse you see what also wanna go we could open the window from there you won't be difficult but because we highly open the left

00:19:27 but because we highly open the left window we always open if we need you just the right the small window on the right we can open it you could open is it right you could open both windows but

00:19:38 it right you could open both windows but you would open the one on the right if you need it to function while in God shown w Tahoe Danny don't show anything a hole young something gonna lose another hole talking but I was only

00:19:49 another hole talking but I was only people go to hold I know my top indigo holder yes I can open both windows but the left one I don't normally open and I

00:20:00 the left one I don't normally open and I always just open the white inside window and just so that we can be sure on that night both both the windows that we see in this image were closed were they homemade or my see if I don't Manilow

00:20:12 homemade or my see if I don't Manilow I'm got Chengdu and sang hello Mona yeah they were closed we can see in the top right-hand part of the

00:20:23 see in the top right-hand part of the photo there's a fan unit did you have a fan Eunice in your kitchen window yeah being seen people Olli yes there were and but they fell down

00:20:35 yes there were and but they fell down come on I'll come back to that in a moment your daughter who had put that fan unit in have been ago John you gotta call functions am I gonna write Olivia

00:20:46 call functions am I gonna write Olivia don't look like ya ridin comes the company's logo the the refurbishment company know what you talk what mrs. quack mrs. crying what you've told us is

00:20:58 quack mrs. crying what you've told us is that you've told us you've got to how far you got towards the kitchen and that you could see flames behind the window were those flames behind both windows

00:21:11 were those flames behind both windows that we see later I wanna her daughter she found shielding a salary tied Oh gotcha former child should be now I gotta forget Nidhi for him a her dog died time idly got charm god I could see

00:21:31 died time idly got charm god I could see just past the bit of the fridge behind on the left hand big window there was frame was about halfway up the window so just so that we we've got it clear the

00:21:45 just so that we we've got it clear the flames were outside the the left-hand window have shown on the image and about halfway up well then in my art a hey jobina go Chum got the oil but before you die call her do we have to Boone

00:21:56 you die call her do we have to Boone comes on uncle hey it over family I don't need a lot o little dummy I think I might throw up oh dear it's not quite halfway up but it's just below where the

00:22:09 below where the thank you did you see was it weather and if anything I'll put that again did you see if anything had happened to the extractor fan Nate okay Coco Nicole

00:22:20 extractor fan Nate okay Coco Nicole coming Tony see no demon so it's a chopping alcoholic uncle Nikola for the performance in a cocktail only to my

00:22:33 performance in a cocktail only to my happy colleague working talking about it a lot later yeah we call it objective young go ahead typical call the pinnacle and got Kody operator new people away yeah there's

00:22:46 operator new people away yeah there's two section of the instructor fan one on the outside one internally the internal cover has fallen down and did that leave

00:23:00 cover has fallen down and did that leave any how did that create any hole anything did that did that leave a hole that you could see through Peter morning although he might end up a balloon in very high touching Giovanna okay no

00:23:11 very high touching Giovanna okay no longer yeah you don't sum up being good okay Coco Hawkins here comes over Yuma they go Hawk de la la comida chopping Oh coughing I don't know the famous do they

00:23:22 coughing I don't know the famous do they it was just a cover that fell down the fan was do that could you see if any smoke was coming through the window at this time they don't see Laconia mock Indian mo high up injured mandolin do

00:23:35 Indian mo high up injured mandolin do know could you smell anything in mundo de miedo no I couldn't smell anything were there any flames coming through the

00:23:47 were there any flames coming through the window at all yeah moody for him hiya Tony coach home just hang up don't even come on tony hawk engine see looking for a while cheating some former so you move

00:23:59 a while cheating some former so you move aside a long way but a token teeth of other i my panic as soon as i saw i see the fire and then i just returned and more quebec words

00:24:11 what you've told us is that the front cover of the extractor fan had fallen off did you see what happened to that cover

00:24:20 cover nwalalae junkie no Gilberto is enough corn a monkey no go Corazon de Murcia

00:24:29 yum-yum-yum or while you're missing nothing on Tia book I counted I only saw that fell fell down it's plastic and I don't really know what happened to it you've just told us that

00:24:43 happened to it you've just told us that you went back into the corridor was that when you were shouting fire fire how fun I thought function of them I don't see that you shall fall off or to other but

00:24:55 that you shall fall off or to other but I wonder we can go down low and see how goddamn poverty for me although I don't don't only yes I just wish to be China on a walk back the corridor and I was

00:25:07 on a walk back the corridor and I was scoring fire fire can we have your plan back so I WS 80 page 15 please

00:25:24 was it only when you went back along the corridor that you realized that van kwang-ho was staying in the flat that night yeah my job on June tourists OCD

00:25:37 night yeah my job on June tourists OCD daughter honky-tonk yes no he totally hit a wife ought to quit out early was in GG family when he heard that I was calling there was a fire then

00:25:49 that I was calling there was a fire then that's that's when he came out then I knew that he was in the flat that night

00:25:57 when you were walking back along the whole way along the corridor which is marked 7 in red circle and circled in red on your plan did you notice if there

00:26:10 red on your plan did you notice if there was any smoke in the corridor now if I munch in hallways so funny what I want to know is I really don't see a movie and oh god are Antonio de Malaga Tyler

00:26:29 and oh god are Antonio de Malaga Tyler you know I didn't I didn't discover I didn't see any smoke at the time but so mr. ho he asked me to ring my older

00:26:40 mr. ho he asked me to ring my older daughter and did you smell anything in the corridor at all no in your statement

00:26:53 the corridor at all no in your statement you tell us that you went back into your bedroom which is marked one and you picked up your glasses and put on a jacket they were already gonna sink on

00:27:05 jacket they were already gonna sink on the wall eased up on finally gone for sure if I'm getting low I finally go again no yes estimating time is difficult but are you

00:27:16 estimating time is difficult but are you able to say at all how long you were in your bedroom for you go got your gala paranoid I see that I call because I think I've also found oh not you know I

00:27:27 think I've also found oh not you know I see condom oh you're funny you're funny joke yeah yeah fine joke oh yeah right dongseok in togas hell are you doing something for me

00:27:38 something for me what a con man came with tactical Simon CK yeah and I'm you carrying on do you don't be mad yeah don't see when I'm gonna go to work um I've I would imagine it's about a

00:27:49 um I've I would imagine it's about a minute or so I was quite panicky at that time at that moment and I was thinking to myself what should I do next you tell us that what you then did was to open

00:28:01 us that what you then did was to open your bedroom door and that's when you saw smoke in the flat hallway so again you say they didn't front door I'll put it again in your statement you

00:28:14 I'll put it again in your statement you tell us that you opened your bedroom door and then so smoke in the corridor and that was the corridor of your flat wasn't it they have you think'll know

00:28:25 wasn't it they have you think'll know the wall la basura for guess all that case a yeah hi Joe I guess I couldn't see and I couldn't see my way then

00:28:37 see and I couldn't see my way then custard the smoke was quite picked by that time what you say is that the whole area was black in your statement I think it's in comes on me wanna they saying go

00:28:49 it's in comes on me wanna they saying go to yes

00:28:52 to yes I couldn't see much if you put yourself standing at your bedroom door can you remember if if you could tell if the

00:29:03 remember if if you could tell if the lights were still on in the hallway pathology - Gogol also leave the morgue in dodeth um I know before we open it was like I

00:29:24 I know before we open it was like I couldn't see any light but they were light in my room like Quincy and he liked in the in the corridor because it was so dark so dark were you able to see into the kitchen at

00:29:36 were you able to see into the kitchen at all

00:29:36 all the homework told Johnny Tyler don't want you working hard what what a downer no I ran away because I saw this big thing smoking what working what Allah

00:29:49 thing smoking what working what Allah tell you I woke you Motel when it's the home what is it tell me what couch out there down hoggin was looking no you can go more that's all mine don't move them aside

00:29:58 aside yeah mister who asked me to move on to quickly run so I did I saw these big smoke then I decided to run could you

00:30:09 smoke then I decided to run could you you described the smokers thick and said you couldn't see anything could you see mr. homn no I don't see what he in my home kid no yeah I couldn't see him

00:30:22 home kid no yeah I couldn't see him you're watching on a mystic no high window you're working with your perform and I'm it's like sorry - man go - Sango come with a leukemia sign I couldn't see him but perhaps he knew where I was

00:30:33 him but perhaps he knew where I was so he just touched my curry he picked my phone that's all I couldn't see him so you could hear him and then you could feel him pull on your clothes

00:30:46 yes I fell he he just put on my glue who was the first to leave the flat you or mr. ho hello he don't you know you are more girly he went first and I follow

00:30:58 more girly he went first and I follow him and when you followed him do you remember what happened to your flat door Nicky my countrymen solid they got Nedim younger boy dog it was opened do

00:31:11 Nedim younger boy dog it was opened do you know whether after you'd gone through it left open or did it closed making really chocolatey how good a move to hold your son father I can't remember

00:31:25 to hold your son father I can't remember I I couldn't I don't know where they were so close I mean I can close the door I didn't close the door and I think if we just can you confirm this please

00:31:36 if we just can you confirm this please mrs. Quine this wasn't the door at that time wasn't one that would close by itself was it Amelia don't wanna too high-tech witty witty though Sonia no

00:31:49 you got to form the worker determinate a hit we Sangha yeah your formula to be like angle muna if the window in the

00:32:01 like angle muna if the window in the kitchen was open then there may be drive that pull the door shut shut by itself but on normal days if you were going out

00:32:13 but on normal days if you were going out of your flat would you have to close the door after you or would it close by itself after you take on pinata children yes I already have your ticket on yes

00:32:27 yes I already have your ticket on yes I'll have to close the door tickets you thinking son when you when you came out of me you left you now left your flat and you're in the communal area what

00:32:39 and you're in the communal area what were the conditions like in the communal area I think they children come down long ago they don't see getting foggy again

00:32:48 again it's very dark I couldn't see anything oh yes you're always a light there I couldn't see anything you've just said

00:33:00 couldn't see anything you've just said that there's always a light there does that meaning in your experience whatever time of night it is there's always a light on in the communal area mi Gong Gong how long

00:33:12 Gong how long yeah more sales doing yeah

00:33:18 yes there's always light there where the elite were what you saying your statement is that the communal area was

00:33:29 statement is that the communal area was full of smoke do you think that you couldn't see any light because it wasn't on or because of the smoke blocking the light how do you

00:33:41 the smoke blocking the light how do you think I got Heidi integer got undone in

00:33:52 jail yo yo yo yo my heart in jail we oughta be like India so you got her entire company I do I believe he was

00:34:03 entire company I do I believe he was deduct that the thick smoke that covered the light if the light went on then we should be able I should be able to see it but I couldn't see the light then could you see van kwang-ho

00:34:17 no I couldn't see his recollection in his statement is that he didn't see any smoke in the communal area when you both

00:34:29 smoke in the communal area when you both left the flat are you clear in your mind that there was smoke when you left Hangul think illogically whoever saw it saw him walk in token comes around oh

00:34:41 saw him walk in token comes around oh yeah yeah mortgage in Makkah they got a late CK Coco can he hit living I met you know I remember they were smoke they

00:34:54 know I remember they were smoke they were smoke there mr. ho also recalls that they were two or three firemen on in the communal area on your floor do

00:35:05 in the communal area on your floor do you remember seeing firemen in the communal area on your floor okay okay yeah

00:35:13 yeah come for you I think okay they don't see Mookie and only some way I can go for it now

00:35:18 now okay how many I'm talking that quarter that's moon I'm going I don't work in psycho I saw one and then another one after that so total two not three but

00:35:29 after that so total two not three but was that in the communal area where the Knicks were Laura because he went first so I'm not sure how many he saw your is

00:35:41 so I'm not sure how many he saw your is your recollection of seeing firemen one of firemen in the stairs or on your communal landing they can you to donate got a licking would he go for you yeah

00:35:52 got a licking would he go for you yeah there you go God oh come come down what the WHA

00:35:56 the WHA in the space mrs. quango I'll come back to those firemen in a moment if I may now is he choked on one you did I'm John and Bonnie will go for you at the end

00:36:08 and Bonnie will go for you at the end they see we look at a different plan which you have annex your state we have

00:36:19 iw SAT page 14

00:36:26 this obscene and you got pink mean top

00:36:32 this is the plan of your floor no daily ding Newton okay so flat 7 to 6 is in top right hand corner just up the whole core gonna die

00:36:44 corner just up the whole core gonna die hey yo we can see the noose and the stairs marked cool okay he gonna die go go little tight hmm hello I got lasered

00:36:58 go little tight hmm hello I got lasered all apps up bomb next to the little stairs were the refuge room the rocket room the rubbish room um let's just take

00:37:10 room the rubbish room um let's just take you back to the night itself you've come out into the communal area how did you find your way to the stairwell door but they can't find don't mind if I really truly guess led male 1 the talkative

00:37:22 truly guess led male 1 the talkative locked in human vocal mundo Metallica to Nova has taken from her my little yellow ham totally vegan vegan anti go commando I beta ho g gajala Munna what the water

00:37:33 I beta ho g gajala Munna what the water working but I know my way I just came straight down to where the door is

00:37:43 door is was which was opened was it was left open and I know where the stairs was I'm was van kwang-ho ahead of you when you

00:37:54 was van kwang-ho ahead of you when you went through the door into the stairs Leehom chilly who the coat uncle eat ammonia serenity

00:38:09 yes he went first and he opened the door and I could see the lights and the stairs so I just follow him and the door

00:38:21 stairs so I just follow him and the door that was to the stairs do you remember it closing behind you once you got onto the stairs making a ghost obrigado Montecito Sam yeah my homegirl yes he was a heavy door

00:38:36 yeah my homegirl yes he was a heavy door sound and you remember it closing after you've gone through yes just before I ask you about the stairs I want to ask

00:38:47 ask you about the stairs I want to ask you about a detail in your statement money go go go go CTC now almond almond granular göttingen reading religion second CD in your statement you say this

00:39:02 second CD in your statement you say this I did not hear any fans as I was leaving and I did not hear the fire how do you think on salmonella more time via megaphone singers and they got a mammography

00:39:17 [Music] no I can hear the fan or see the fire would you expect to hear the sound of fans normally in the communal area upon

00:39:30 fans normally in the communal area upon ago Kong Kong Kong Kong get along with all the women we hanging called hang the phone since today weeping see we know so

00:39:46 phone since today weeping see we know so so normally when you were going back leaving your home and coming back at night would you hear any sounds or in

00:39:57 night would you hear any sounds or in the communal area pingzhi go to your castle define finality you gone okay yourself behaving say go go go it's a long road ahead Moira Sangha musica Leland certainly

00:40:09 Moira Sangha musica Leland certainly poor farm until if I know I'm and only poor find him again oh no no sound but I could smell if someone is cooking in the kitchen cooking rice something I could smell but no sound

00:40:24 in your statement you tell us that when you got into the stairs and we can see them marked on this plan that there was no smoke in the stairwell highly adorned

00:40:35 no smoke in the stairwell highly adorned only wallet they don't have more evening time or younger yeah there's no smoke in the stairs and that's where I was going down below down

00:40:46 that's where I was going down below down boom there was light as well and was that the same all the way down as you went down the stairs hello yoga more you yes there was light

00:40:57 hello yoga more you yes there was light and there was no smoke all the way through did you feel the the movement of air on your face at all as you're standing in the stairwell okay they had

00:41:09 standing in the stairwell okay they had uptake it's not only a more complex form I think I mean to the choice know what

00:41:20 I think I mean to the choice know what you tell us in your statement is that you saw a firefighter on the ninth floor and a firefighter on the eighth floor is it still your memory that useful to

00:41:31 it still your memory that useful to firefighters in the stairwell so if you

00:41:42 firefighters in the stairwell so if you know anymore they they also know they're wrong

00:41:44 wrong don't lock they work in vain you go yes I saw the first moment as we went down one floor and then we went down continue

00:41:55 one floor and then we went down continue to go down and he went up we went down again so another firefighter will continue looking would it go down that second firemen asks us to pour down um

00:42:08 second firemen asks us to pour down um can we go to your your this part of your statement please but these are the value if we go to iw SAT page eight please and if we have

00:42:19 SAT page eight please and if we have page Asia page nine next to each other

00:42:38 if we look at paragraph 35 at the bottom of page 8 to please Samsung I just want

00:42:50 of page 8 to please Samsung I just want to clear up something you said to us a few minutes ago mrs. Kwang soo so call me little hmm first question is you've got two fire fighters how did you how

00:43:03 got two fire fighters how did you how did you identify the flaws that they were on they don't go for you they didn't see though got the white like a Tamra your the Lak hello good lord I

00:43:16 Tamra your the Lak hello good lord I only love you I thought oh god I gotta watch another one at that time when went down the stairwell once twice then there's one floor and that's where you

00:43:28 there's one floor and that's where you saw the first fireman did was he did you notice where he was going was he going further up the stairs they don't say I'm a keen dog who say yes we we saw him

00:43:44 a keen dog who say yes we we saw him going up and we just continue going down did you notice whether that firefighter went into a particular floor it didn t go gaga for you who Pina Don beehner to it

00:43:55 it no I don't know the firefighter you described as being on the eighth floor and telling you to go down can you remember what that firefighter was doing

00:44:06 remember what that firefighter was doing no I'll hire you to do I have it and the battle was so leaky no go go come for you and they don't get a joke where they came he seems eager don't see Joe give me my yellow what I'm do you don't want

00:44:17 me my yellow what I'm do you don't want them my cups everyone I'm wrong I'm the water who some of the time I'm charging you for more dahlias and we think almost every time he wasn't carrying anything I

00:44:28 every time he wasn't carrying anything I assumed that he was just went up to investigate you look at something can we look then at page 9 of your statement in paragraph 36 please

00:44:40 paragraph 36 please they sound some local dude like our path you get Cinco Medina in if we expand

00:44:53 you get Cinco Medina in if we expand paragraph 36 play G going gang hi sugar

00:45:04 paragraph 36 play G going gang hi sugar go again if madam interpreter if you could just just if you could just interpret this part I'm going to

00:45:15 interpret this part I'm going to summarize the statement that from mrs. Quine mrs. Kwang in your in this part of your statement I'm sorry do I meet you chance a first well if you could just explain to just yes okay sorry can you

00:45:32 explain to just yes okay sorry can you start again that's all right mrs. Kwang I'm going to summarize a part of this statement for you well we join the end doing that I was younger I did don't get your heart in this paragraph you

00:45:46 your heart in this paragraph you described coming across a woman wearing a hijab who was with her son and her baby

00:45:52 baby they are a highly Adam early well anyway did you know we don't up against a lady chicken

00:45:59 chicken takagi come to Portugal died again was this woman and her son walking side by side down the staircase could you know

00:46:10 side down the staircase could you know bono said may you take because they can be hope you know why are you it I hope the Sun was following her and I was behind the Sun and what was the reason

00:46:22 behind the Sun and what was the reason why you could not get past them didn't garlic oh they're telling me how he did shouldn't go do you know my cell okok what they think oh there you go mother

00:46:34 what they think oh there you go mother had come to you talk I'm all thinking oh they don't like mom because she's a woman and she's a fellow go I got oh and I felt impolite to over Tigger

00:46:48 I felt impolite to over Tigger aside from the two firefighters you described earlier with these the first people that you met on the stairs as you were going down so y'all got a long way to go for you see what kind they could

00:47:00 to go for you see what kind they could eat oh yes I saw them and that's all apart from the two firefighters and this

00:47:12 apart from the two firefighters and this woman I didn't see anybody else was it quite noisy in the stairwell oh no very quiet

00:47:21 quiet and could you see van kwang-ho as you came down the stairs don't say that no I don't know where he went and so was the first time that you saw him next was

00:47:34 the first time that you saw him next was out was that outside the Talpiot ball and maybe honey they do need better jogging van Gogh you know people take gogo on I had a chicken - go go go go -

00:47:46 gogo on I had a chicken - go go go go - whoa whooping yes it was near the grass outstanding the town spot center near the Sports Center Thank You mr. chairman

00:48:01 the Sports Center Thank You mr. chairman those are all the questions I have and it's also an appropriate time anyway to give mrs. Quang a break so could I ask for a short break whilst I consult with others to see if there's any supplementary question

00:48:16 okay Daniel okay thank you choke on it mr. Rawat thinks he's finished the questions he wants to ask you but he needs a moment to consider that so we're

00:48:31 needs a moment to consider that so we're gonna have a short break no no please don't talk to anyone about your evidence while you're outside the room they hold you about how really knowing anything

00:48:43 you about how really knowing anything hmm

00:48:44 hmm and if you'd like to give the a show we'll come back at 10:00 to 3:00 that'll be long enough mystery thank you

00:49:14 right 23 them he's thank you

00:50:21 you

00:54:39 you

00:57:07 you

00:57:46 you

00:58:28 yes sir Robert a very few additional manual school all right thank you

00:58:58 well mrs. crane just a few more questions I think yes mr. Ehlert Thank You mr. chairman and thank you mrs. Krank um could we have please up on the screen I WS 80

00:59:12 have please up on the screen I WS 80 page 7 things expand our graph 28 I think it's a bad dude mrs. Quang I'm

00:59:27 think it's a bad dude mrs. Quang I'm going to read out to you the last sentence of paragraph 28 and I'll ask that that be translated to you well we don't shut that yourself back doing get

00:59:38 don't shut that yourself back doing get you know you're good go Tito Milan always gonna finally be attacking that sentence says I saw the parts of the extraction phone in the kitchen had fallen off from the top right-hand side

00:59:50 fallen off from the top right-hand side of the window because of the fire no really well then look in the toy he seen hate you the only thing is how he seen you up all fun I go in yahoo pin so

01:00:02 seen you up all fun I go in yahoo pin so now some Coco Chung go don't go Toby singing up open it the Jolly yo Michael didn't ya my question is this why do you

01:00:13 didn't ya my question is this why do you say because of the fire at the end of that sentence awesome and mentality hey Tim Kiowa Numa - Walker Union so he Coco funky lorina never open

01:00:27 Union so he Coco funky lorina never open your window for two guys to see the frame through the window okay go tell me no for you go hey move over go to your phone what the heck County God because he thought what I didn't ever go to do

01:00:38 he thought what I didn't ever go to do with it only because it was made of plastic so I assumed that the fire would have caused it you fell down um can I

01:00:49 have caused it you fell down um can I now have put up on the screen please inq five zeros 406 and page two please

01:01:02 it's not in the bundle

01:01:13 could I have the next page

01:01:22 if you look on the right-hand side of the image as we look at it mrs. Quine there are a series of pictures of smoke

01:01:33 there are a series of pictures of smoke you all need highly they'll get started with idle yeah but don't hide it get and there are letters in the middle between

01:01:45 there are letters in the middle between in brackets can you see those depended only ad Duncan everybody you told us earlier of that there was smoke in the

01:01:57 earlier of that there was smoke in the communal area when you left your flat

01:02:03 community gonna start leaking Go Go Go Go Go no longer in using those letters can you identify the picture that best

01:02:18 can you identify the picture that best describes the smoke that you encountered in the communal area no more young needy women see more surely you know that joy

01:02:29 women see more surely you know that joy keep the last one can I confirm that

01:02:40 keep the last one can I confirm that that's image ii i made i'm not to smoke descriptive but not the fire it's just

01:02:54 descriptive but not the fire it's just the smoke that we're asking you about think i got a magnet in a mean w um well thank you for that I've got one last question for you mrs. Kwang connoisseur I dunno I dunno your commentator

01:03:06 I dunno I dunno your commentator putting aside what's in your witness statement and the answers that you've given to me today is there anything else that you saw or heard on the night of

01:03:17 that you saw or heard on the night of the fire that you want to or that you think it's important to tell the Chairman about well they found a gun it singen dominant sencond america makanga

01:03:28 singen dominant sencond america makanga how come show your leading lady mary has some joy come buddy get a commoner can I tell you things all right

01:03:40 commoner can I tell you things all right can I can I give you a statement yes all right

01:03:55 I'll translate it for them Vermont $170 something season I say you know calmly you know Dom like boy Aikido you done well you're hot but gee

01:04:08 Aikido you done well you're hot but gee I can call out we'll talk about your seeking what song with an exception my question is the same as Eppie once I

01:04:19 my question is the same as Eppie once I want to know why there was this serious fire in the tower that I live in I want to know the truth and the facts of what happened

01:04:30 of what happened tengo el sentido your thoughts of me and say mom say it's a cow @ml I buy yo Onsager tofu combo I understand that there was 72 people died has four dogs

01:04:43 there was 72 people died has four dogs and a cat they died unjustly and they suffered terrible death the second man

01:04:54 suffered terrible death the second man to male cow hello both Vegas and winger back in before toi ET tout a l'heure sanguine tons it's handily the residents and the docks and

01:05:06 handily the residents and the docks and the cats have life of Worth and value the ending of such precious life was sudden and brutal the fight has made tower gotu kola open

01:05:21 the fight has made tower gotu kola open signal for follow the Tao has became like crematorium Tok Tok women are called holy for him he come to

01:05:32 called holy for him he come to serve some form combo sing something ugly chi gong young man Tai Fook up young man type the surviving residents and the bereaved suffered from stress

01:05:46 and the bereaved suffered from stress have issues and breathing problems

01:05:52 they were felt they felt terrified and scared no one so enjoy your tiny went well chat you can he wanting for

01:06:05 went well chat you can he wanting for so-called yeonji informed ily lastly I do not want another grant out our to happen again so I want the government should change and put safety

01:06:16 government should change and put safety that's the number-one priority mrs. Kramer thank you once again for coming to give evidence thank you thank you and

01:06:29 to give evidence thank you thank you and my own thanks to you for coming to give your evidence it's important to us I'm sorry translate my first take on why you're gonna get city alderman tell you

01:06:40 you're gonna get city alderman tell you it's very important for us to understand what was going on inside the tower during the fire well they're also UT dou Xiao Qing Tong it do you want to

01:06:57 Xiao Qing Tong it do you want to separate about you supplement this you don't you in my mind don't matter young ago pea Pinatubo her yet thank don't see cycle thing I figured that I couldn't smell anything because my nose

01:07:08 couldn't smell anything because my nose was block

01:07:14 yeah I know you're not teasing but something I was in do you know what become have to have to hold cutting you when I was saving my daughter's home

01:07:25 when I was saving my daughter's home when nice my mother blew my nose I realized that my nose was completely the discharge was completely black I saw this seriousness death

01:07:37 this seriousness death all right well thank you very much for giving us your evidence it's very helpful to us and we're very grateful to you for coming along to do that don't only should see me so baby be single me

01:07:49 only should see me so baby be single me or the highly efficient Thiago Motta vehicle and now you're free to go you gonna leave those you go with the usher she'll look after you

01:08:20 yes mr. Rohit on next witness I think is ready and will be hand over to miss silver come around asking yes okay well thank you

01:09:42 yes the Reverend mr. chairman who may now call our next witness mr. AB mani good thank you very much

01:10:53 thank you very much mr. money that's it make a self comfortable yes we receive it come on mr. money can you confirm your full name

01:11:04 mr. money can you confirm your full name for the inquiry please sit sorry Armani first I'd like to thank you for coming here today to give evidence to the inquiry as you'll be aware the majority of my questions will be about the night

01:11:15 of my questions will be about the night of the fire and what took place in the 14th of June we appreciate it will be difficult to go back it will be very difficult to relive the events of that night I would ask you if you need a

01:11:26 night I would ask you if you need a break at any point please say so thank you my questions I will it be short and I'm hopefully they'll also are intended to be straightforward if I do

01:11:38 intended to be straightforward if I do ask any questions that you find difficult or you do not fully understand please let me know and I'll ask it in a different way yes sure finally the first thing that we

01:11:49 yes sure finally the first thing that we need to do is to put your statement to the inquiry into the record now if we may have iw s70 page 1 this is the first

01:12:00 may have iw s70 page 1 this is the first page of your statement now you'll see that's on the screen to your right yes and you will also see if you want a paper copy there's a bundle in front of you on the table and you'll find your statement at Table one of that bundle

01:12:19 now if we can turn to the last page of your statement that's page 13 you'll see there's a statement of truth that is dated the 18th of April 2018 and there's

01:12:30 dated the 18th of April 2018 and there's a signature above the date is that your signature yes you need now have you had an opportunity to read your statement recently yes I did and can you confirm that the contents of the statement are

01:12:42 that the contents of the statement are true yes indeed it's true can I confirm for the record that there are no exhibits to the statement thank you and if that may be admitted it no mr. Murray turning firstly to the

01:12:55 no mr. Murray turning firstly to the background we've heard evidence from your ex-wife miss Rasheeda early this morning and she's told the chairman that as of June 2017 you are living in flat one two five on the 15th floor of Granville Tower with her and your

01:13:07 Granville Tower with her and your daughter is that correct he's correct now mr. Lee has given evidence already about the condition of the flat this morning I'm not going to go over the same detail that she's given true

01:13:20 same detail that she's given true however I do have a few additional questions for you that I want to explore before we turn to the events of the 14th of June 2017 sure now firstly can the

01:13:31 of June 2017 sure now firstly can the witness be shown inq 93 this is a photo of taken by one of the inquiries experts after the fire of a sign that was in

01:13:43 after the fire of a sign that was in Granville towers have you seen the sign before yes I did and where did you see the sign it was by the lift the 15th in

01:13:54 the sign it was by the lift the 15th in my floor 15 floor and it was in ground floor and on the ground floor yes you did

01:14:00 did did you see that sign anywhere else in the town no when did you first see this sign it was I remember exactly the time when they finished the refurbishment and

01:14:12 when they finished the refurbishment and afterward about a few months after they they put the sign which is I noticed when I was coming up from the lift and I remember that day my daughter she was with me and I said to her look they put

01:14:23 with me and I said to her look they put it was something on the lift because the Nifty still broke all the time so when they take over that I noticed a sign do you remember what year this was it was 2017 2017 and do you

01:14:36 this was it was 2017 2017 and do you remember how long before the fire you saw it no I don't sorry when you saw the sign what did you understand it to me it's fire safety measurement but the

01:14:50 it's fire safety measurement but the hand standing is it's for the safety of yourself if you see if you notice in your file smoke stay it's a stable policy basically what do you understand that to mean for me I don't have any

01:15:04 that to mean for me I don't have any understanding for that because I never happy with it because I had a causes with one I used to be a management I used to be managing incense base so I had all of course is regarding safety and the building safety so I was always against it because I

01:15:18 so I was always against it because I haven't haven't insensibly lab our local sense village it was about 11 o'clock in morning can we have the smoke from from the ground floor so I just get the

01:15:30 the ground floor so I just get the people out and these were I study for so I get all the customer out in the building regulation is different that's I'm trying to say I don't really believe in the policy I never apply it to be

01:15:42 in the policy I never apply it to be sure to be shop semester money you've told us several things if I can just break that down somewhat you've mentioned that you had training as a manager it's a insurance in that training what were you advised to do the

01:15:54 training what were you advised to do the advice in our training in our courses the advice is to make sure the customers they are saved and evacuate and after that the second stage is to evacuate all the staff members and make sure make

01:16:06 the staff members and make sure make sure you're called emergency on the square and you've got we've got a point when you get you check all the stuff we do members and the book and safety measure so you go there and you contact

01:16:17 measure so you go there and you contact your emergency fire services right so your understanding through workers if there was a fire you sure exactly yes indeed that's that's a business recognition and you've mentioned that

01:16:28 recognition and you've mentioned that there was a previous fire weather smoke scene on the ground floor yes he needed it wasn't a fire there was a smoky was a gas related to a fridges has blew up and he

01:16:38 he created a smoke and that's the reason why we have evacuated about ten o'clock 811 okay just so that we're clear mr.

01:16:49 811 okay just so that we're clear mr. money was that smoke that was seen at your premises at work I work yes indeed I work okay and that's an occasion when you just to give you an example okay I

01:17:00 you just to give you an example okay I understand that's quickly enough and in relation to what you understood it grateful Tower did you understand that from this sign that was different advice for you indeed yes it's different and

01:17:12 for you indeed yes it's different and when did you understand that you were meant to stay put from this sign the incentive is for me my action is if anything happened I need to run that's what this is my answer to be clear so I

01:17:25 what this is my answer to be clear so I don't I never applied that policy I never talked about it I never I never give attention to it so just so that we're clear you are aware of this policy

01:17:37 we're clear you are aware of this policy but you didn't intend to follow me you know right and that's what were your understanding was a solution 2017 yes thank you that's very clear mr. money now within your flat 1/125

01:17:50 now within your flat 1/125 is it correct that you had smoke smoke alarms yes indeed and do you know if they were working yes how did you know

01:18:02 they were working yes how did you know that they were working I remember he was a Saturday around two o'clock I was at home and someone nicked the door I think

01:18:14 home and someone nicked the door I think I believe I happened at all and a gentleman come in he said I'm here to to test them to for the fire detector my wife or my daughter was there and we

01:18:28 wife or my daughter was there and we haven't we haven't we haven't had conversation honestly we didn't we didn't even his hairs as I talk he's a usual check-in and so I did why he checked it and then you were out no you

01:18:42 checked it and then you were out no you said this was Saturday which Saturday it was a Saturday the fire happened on Wednesday a 40 and the Saturday it we it means he's three days before okay so Saturday before the fire yes

01:18:53 okay so Saturday before the fire yes indeed and the man that came to the door did he say who he was working for no and you said that he checked their alarms

01:19:04 you said that he checked their alarms which alarm did he check your was that Quarryville so at the corridor Cory bought you did he check any other alarms no did he ask you to sign anything no and did it give you any other advice

01:19:17 and did it give you any other advice about what to do in a fire yeah yep now I'd like to turn to the events of the night of 13 and 14 June now if I can

01:19:28 night of 13 and 14 June now if I can take you to page 3 of your statement and that's paragraph 15 now you've said in this paragraph that in the run-up to the

01:19:39 this paragraph that in the run-up to the 14th of June you were very unwell at the time of the fire yes indeed and your illness was aggravated to this you have emphysema yes you did that's great so you weren't very well and yes and because of that

01:19:51 very well and yes and because of that you were sleeping in another room from mr. Ali and your daughter and this is at paragraph 19 of your statements is that correct yes she's quite now in the Knights of 13th to 14th June is that

01:20:03 Knights of 13th to 14th June is that correct the Masonic came to wake you up and tell you that she'd smell smoke yes she did and what was your reaction when she told you that I remember that day yesterday it's nothing to worry

01:20:14 day yesterday it's nothing to worry about

01:20:14 about maybe ladies had been most casual days you don't need to worry Buster that's my word did you smell any smoke at that statement and did you look out the

01:20:26 statement and did you look out the window and she first woke you now if we can turn to page four paragraph 20 of your statements

01:20:39 in this paragraph you said that sunny Rasheeda told you that she was going to check and she left the bedroom you heard her work walking to the front door and walking out to code on then

01:20:51 door and walking out to code on then she's come back and told you that someone else's reported there was a fire to her is that your that's your recollection of that conversation is that right she said if I can remember to be precise

01:21:03 she said if I can remember to be precise what she said she found three three or two ladies on the stairs and she said he was talking about smoke and she was really worried I concerned that's when

01:21:17 really worried I concerned that's when she come back to me and then I think I believe she's on she said we need to there is something wrong with the building Whitaker heart I said to her

01:21:29 building Whitaker heart I said to her I'm not going nowhere that's my answer you want the whole thing who do you want you have another question just your recollection of my Yeshua and she say I

01:21:43 recollection of my Yeshua and she say I know you will go and come back I can't the word I said the first word I said I can't go nowhere I'm not going nowhere and I was tired I was exhausted

01:21:54 nowhere and I was tired I was exhausted she said I help you I call you I said I can't not I cannot even walk that's I think if I'm to be sure that my word exact where it does what I said and she

01:22:05 exact where it does what I said and she said I'm taking my daughter with me I said I know you will go and come back there's nothing wrong no mustard money

01:22:16 there's nothing wrong no mustard money at that point why did you refuse to go with the Miceli I was I was very ill I never been in love with that and is kind of very tired very exhausted was a

01:22:28 of very tired very exhausted was a sweating law and the fina cold and very hot I was very confusion in my mind I didn't thought I didn't thought it would be the situation I know my wife she's

01:22:41 be the situation I know my wife she's always telling me things she feel things and I was ignored I I I know that but in that moment I was really really exhausted I was really really a I think even walk to to the

01:22:54 really a I think even walk to to the bathroom she happily to go to bathroom and I didn't even believe there is something going on outside so in my mind you know we are safe so that's why my

01:23:06 you know we are safe so that's why my response to hers I know you go in and come back and I stayed behind when you stayed behind and she first left did you notice then at any point the smell of

01:23:18 notice then at any point the smell of smoke no I didn't I didn't and did you notice and did you look out the window on that occasion know what

01:23:29 the window on that occasion know what went one day left somehow I'm about sleeping I feel asleep I don't know how and just I was knocked away and did you

01:23:41 and just I was knocked away and did you stay asleep yeah I was sleeping I went back to sleep now

01:23:47 at paragraph 21 is the following paragraph

01:23:55 you say that you were woken up from your sleep yeah you believe this is fear from hearing a popping sound at the window and it's then that you opened eyes and you stood up how long do you believe

01:24:07 you stood up how long do you believe that you're sleeping for to be honest with you I haven't got timing but I feels to me it's like you were so long because when I wake up I was like you

01:24:19 because when I wake up I was like you know when you wake up sometimes you feel like you slept so long and before you sleepy you have a conversation we had in your mind that morning we copy get surprised and when I wake up I I talk

01:24:31 surprised and when I wake up I I talk and I believe that sound from outside wake me up creepy not will be that sound but that moment I was quite surprised when I wake up so when I wake up I stood

01:24:42 when I wake up so when I wake up I stood up when I stood up I looked behind me because the the where I was sleeping is the window behind my head so I woke up and I looked at through the window that's the moment how loud was that

01:24:57 that's the moment how loud was that sounds the popping sound that you could hear he wasn't very loud it wasn't very loud but you can hear he is not something you can not hear properly but you can't hear he does does get your

01:25:10 you can't hear he does does get your attention the sound okay and you said and was the sound coming from the window then yes indeed you also described later on with that paragraph that I could hear

01:25:22 on with that paragraph that I could hear a sound of crackling yes you did was that a separate sound from the popping the crockery is the public is the same is the same is the same thing it's the same same solid and could you

01:25:34 it's the same same solid and could you tell what was making the sound then the popping and crackling sound in that moment I didn't this I didn't I think I couldn't find out I can describe it with myself

01:25:44 myself and so when I looked at my window I saw I saw like a smoke outside and I saw a flame underneath not an in the Nev of my window is like going from the right side

01:25:56 window is like going from the right side the right side of the building then going like the smoke goes going up and you can see the reflection of the flame that's exactly what I did salt so

01:26:10 that's exactly what I did salt so breaking that down you've mentioned the smoke and seeing a reflection of the frame

01:26:13 frame could you see exactly where the smoke was coming from it was the right side right so yeah but could you see the source of the smoke or could you only see the smoke the souls I can see it okay and the reflection of the flames

01:26:26 okay and the reflection of the flames where did you see that reflection exactly going to the the middle of the building so I mean 15 flow going underneath of 14 14 I'm not sure but it was just you know a moment for me I

01:26:39 was just you know a moment for me I didn't focus I didn't stay there it was just a moment for me when I saw that and then I just come back to myself and went through went out for my my room because

01:26:50 through went out for my my room because that moment my wife and my goal didn't up there so to us that's the moment for me that's the moment where I was little bit lost from my room I went out I want

01:27:06 bit lost from my room I went out I want to deliver room I want you out the window and I saw I hope in the window just pull it up pull it the reporter window and I saw the same thing but not

01:27:17 window and I saw the same thing but not exactly in the same situation with the small or the fire like the middle and middle room but is the same direction coming from the same direction but it was a further window that you're

01:27:29 but it was a further window that you're looking at listened if if the witness can be shown I WS 3 page 16

01:28:03 it's iws 7 series 3 page 16

01:28:20 right now this is a floor plan of your flat one to five 125 you could see at

01:28:31 flat one to five 125 you could see at the far end what appears to be a bedroom and the other they'll be two bedrooms at the end and then the sitting room is that correct yes can you indicate which room you are in when you woke up you

01:28:43 room you are in when you woke up you want to be - yes if you jeez the middle room I will sleep in here and is that

01:28:55 room I will sleep in here and is that right window view that's the window you first looked out of though you've described going to the living room and looking out of another window which window did you go to then I went out from this ball through the quarry Hall

01:29:06 from this ball through the quarry Hall distorted the other sitting room and I went to this window so for the record the witness was indicating the living room window next to the second bedroom yes

01:29:22 receipt business ceremony was the bedroom window open when you looked out of it my bed my where I was sleeping yeah it was my wife she opened up she opened the window I was any smoke coming

01:29:35 opened the window I was any smoke coming in - no I haven't notice any smoke okay and the next window that you looked out of the living room window was that open window yes if I believe it was quite a little bit open I believe so yeah I

01:29:47 little bit open I believe so yeah I can't remember exact but I think it was open it wasn't hard for me to open it again did you notice any size no he wasn't smoke no

01:30:00 from the living-room window if we can take you to page five of your statement paragraph 24 yeah sure

01:30:14 he said after checking the living room windows and bedroom windows you then went to the main door I opened the door I would estimate that from waking to opening the front door was not more than five minutes no more than that and I

01:30:27 five minutes no more than that and I could not believe what was happening it was pitch black outside of the dark smoke out there on this occasion do you know when you open the front door before

01:30:38 know when you open the front door before you open the front door rather did you see any signs of smoke coming into the flat before I opened the door I wanted to other bedroom was my wife and my daughter sleeping yeah and it was the

01:30:49 daughter sleeping yeah and it was the same situation what was in the middle and from that room I went to the front room and in that when you moved within

01:31:00 room and in that when you moved within the flat were there any signs of smoke it wasn't and when you got to the front door before you open the front door did you see any signs of smoke coming in no he wasn't no in this section you've then

01:31:12 he wasn't no in this section you've then described you've opened the front door and you've seen this moment yes you did how thick was that smoke that you saw it was very thick I could you see how far

01:31:23 was very thick I could you see how far through it could you see in front of you you cannot see it's impossible could you see if the lights and the communal Lobby was on at all he can is I can notice no

01:31:38 was on at all he can is I can notice no I don't think I notice in your luck but I believe it was like kind of reflection of lighting but it was in darkness if I put it this way it wasn't partners it

01:31:50 put it this way it wasn't partners it was that the smoke was making make it thick that the way I always thick but he wasn't that darkness by oh no see but me could be from lightening like reflection

01:32:02 could be from lightening like reflection of light but I can notice I couldn't notice just so we clear could you you said there could be a reflection of a light yes could you see any light no and did

01:32:17 yes could you see any light no and did this from the ceiling to the floor was there how far down could you see the smoke

01:32:22 smoke oh you a that all the way down to there could you see where the smoke was coming from at all not at all you've described

01:32:33 from at all not at all you've described the smoke as having a strange smell this is the next line of this paragraph in front of it was a strange smell it was nothing like I had smoked before there was a complex smell with a lot of

01:32:44 was a complex smell with a lot of different smells in it and I cannot describe it it was confusing it wasn't the same as a burning smell are you able to expand I can see that you've said

01:32:55 to expand I can see that you've said that you aren't able to describe it be able to expand at all on what that smell was I don't know how to describe it well I describe it one who was young who used

01:33:10 I describe it one who was young who used to be very naughty you know playing around and learning style and creating stuff creating things and I know what burns things looks like so to describe

01:33:23 burns things looks like so to describe this one here I never seen something like that before to describe that smoke how he was I can't describe it because it doesn't universe I never see I never see it I never come across it it was very strong

01:33:37 never come across it it was very strong very thick

01:33:42 and when you first looked out into lobby did that smoke have any physical effect on you yes indeed what effect was that it was yeah I think words I couldn't I

01:33:53 it was yeah I think words I couldn't I can hold my breath and I was very weak but when I went through that process his chest seems to me like I spent the longest time in my life in that time

01:34:06 longest time in my life in that time that's exactly how effect and every time I remember to trigger something in my more memory I always had that feeling like I spent many hours in that building

01:34:20 like I spent many hours in that building especially in that moment because I couldn't see nothing but how long do you think you actually spent holding the door open at that time I was walking

01:34:31 door open at that time I was walking through the smoke he was it was slow carefully he was in a normal walking you walk carefully that's how I was I

01:34:43 walk carefully that's how I was I walking very careful I was I'm walking that's the way I described it well mister can I take you to if I can take

01:34:55 mister can I take you to if I can take you back to paragraph 21 of your statement

01:35:01 statement sorry 25 of your statements and 26 that's on page six I was it's the next page

01:35:13 you said that you stood there fro I was standing there I was frozen for a little bit thinking what to do and I think this is after you've said actually that you

01:35:25 is after you've said actually that you shut the door again and you've left a paragraph 26 you say I left the flat I closed the door behind me and I remember that although it wasn't a particularly conscious decision and the smoke was

01:35:38 conscious decision and the smoke was heavy thick black the smoke was everywhere is that right so there's that the time that you then walked out the finesse indeed what influenced your decision to leave immediately at this

01:35:50 decision to leave immediately at this time you're talking about the lobby we're talking about the inside before the table when you're inside the flap yes laughter yeah I don't need to

01:36:05 yes laughter yeah I don't need to confuse I'll take a back on stage as you said you've opened the front yes you need he said you were standing there frozen for a little bit thinking what to do yeah and then you've decided take you back to paragraph 25 you said there's a

01:36:16 back to paragraph 25 you said there's a cupboard in the hallway and you put on jeans your tracksuit bottoms yeah and so you got dressed yes indeed and he said like other than what I was wearing I did

01:36:29 like other than what I was wearing I did not take anything from the flat I could not think what to do exactly I thought to myself either you leave or you stay I thought if I stayed I would die it did not occur to me is that to use the phone or to stay put none of this came to my

01:36:41 or to stay put none of this came to my mind my instinct was to go yes my questions is what influenced you then deciding to decide to leave the flat my

01:36:52 deciding to decide to leave the flat my mind it was completely completely stopped my brain my top yours

01:37:02 like you don't know what to do at the moment I don't know what to do not nothing has come in my talk nothing is like nothing all this what we have in

01:37:15 is like nothing all this what we have in our policies or regulation nothing nothing in that kind of stuff in my mind I never met him before that moment what I saw when I closed the door back in

01:37:26 I saw when I closed the door back in that warm that particular moment I was standing there talking all my life when I got panic I talked I talked to myself loudly not inside is loudly what to do

01:37:39 loudly not inside is loudly what to do should I go should I stay that's what I did when I got panic by in that moment nothing comes like planning or look at

01:37:50 nothing comes like planning or look at things like many people's maybe different than me but me in that moment I was completely lost I was completely lost the only solution I have to take is

01:38:01 lost the only solution I have to take is together the only solution I never have even I didn't talk about phones or I know my daughter and my wife died out that's the most important part for me

01:38:14 that's the most important part for me they not dead my daughter she not seen a smoke she knows she's not going through one going through my wife she's not there that's the most important part for me but for myself when I panic I always

01:38:29 me but for myself when I panic I always get stuck I always got stuck on that occasion you know I did it okay and you left the flat straightaway

01:38:40 okay and you left the flat straightaway yes indeed so between waking up and leaving the flat how much time do you think had passed altogether as I said to you he said to me my feeling I've been almost

01:38:51 said to me my feeling I've been almost not so high off faith even when I was sleeping I feel like I still met it's long hours and given when I was going out he's that deep feeling like he been so long here and if I give you the

01:39:04 so long here and if I give you the average of the timing I would say about 10 minutes maybe ten five back I'll give you the correct I'm just estimation of the timing but the time I went to the

01:39:17 the timing but the time I went to the living room and come back to the room I don't know where I was I was very ill I was very weak my talk did not clear but Anita hit me a lot is when I looked at

01:39:30 Anita hit me a lot is when I looked at the window and the second part is when I opened the door that when I opened the DA that part which make me lost make me like no way this is it's not way another

01:39:44 like no way this is it's not way another thought about that I never and to be honest with you I never lived in high-rise towers all my life even with my own families always we always keep in our self ground but I never thought it's

01:39:57 our self ground but I never thought it's going to be to be like that take you back to the lobby it on this night you said that you've stepped out into the communal lobby then it's still full of

01:40:09 communal lobby then it's still full of smoke is that right at that time could you hear any sounds no and how did you

01:40:21 you hear any sounds no and how did you find your way to the stairs you wanted me to describe the walking up yes facial the one I was walking I used my hand and before the smoke before the

01:40:36 my hand and before the smoke before the fire I know where's the stairway I know where is the lift I know where's the neighbor so would me I know what I'm going so even if I was blind I know I'm

01:40:47 going so even if I was blind I know I'm going so I just used my hand just in case if I get something in my in my way to touch something him on my way so I was doing I using my hand out of me I was walking I don't know what I'm going

01:41:00 was walking I don't know what I'm going by my mind I know where's at all so just walking I thought if I go wrong who I will find I would find the exit door so that's exactly what happened I found the

01:41:12 that's exactly what happened I found the exit door and then I pushed it so was the exit door shut when you he was shot yes and when you pushed it open

01:41:23 was it more difficult to open than you just quite heavy it's heavy door because I used it many times before is it normally a heavy door have you do I was

01:41:36 normally a heavy door have you do I was a smoke the same consistency throughout the communal lobby when you left out of these towers in inside the communal lobby when you went from your flat go to the stable yes was a smoke the same

01:41:47 the stable yes was a smoke the same genius and when you reach the stairwell door you said you've pushed it open what were the conditions like in the stairs at that time much better much better much better much better

01:42:00 much better much better was there any smoke in the stairs he wasn't that smoke for if if if you all want me to describe it just just - yes please

01:42:10 please it's like because I do I can't describe it it's like is that foggy not for his

01:42:23 it it's like is that foggy not for his like smoke he wasn't that heavy it was like flowing around but he wasn't that heavy he's not he's not affected smoke that's how I described it this is the smoke in the stairwell that's the same

01:42:34 smoke in the stairwell that's the same voice yeah and what color was that smoke it was what it was what no for the record you made a gesture circular send us up your head as the smoke high up yes

01:42:45 us up your head as the smoke high up yes - PA and huh was that near the ceiling of the cell oh come on but he's he's quite hot it's quite high it's not it's not it's not like everywhere but you can't you see like I see some smoke

01:42:57 can't you see like I see some smoke I was it spread out evenly within the stairs or was it collecting in one particular area that says what a worried call one I start to go down bit by bit the smoke he was little bit more it was a bit more than up I don't know why

01:43:10 a bit more than up I don't know why somehow but that's why I notice okay when did you notice the smoke getting a bit more that's when I was going to a car number what exactly the area but

01:43:21 car number what exactly the area but when I was going down I noticed and as you are going down did you notice of any of the doors from other lobbies were open

01:43:29 open No wasn't now if I can take you to page seven of your statement paragraph 30 no

01:43:44 seven of your statement paragraph 30 no you've said in that statement as you've just told the inquiry that the smoke was not quite this is the fifth line down the smoke was not quite as thick inside the stairwell was not quite so heavy so

01:43:58 the stairwell was not quite so heavy so take it to a further line down say the stairwell was very hot and smelling of burning as if plastic was burning is that the small that you could smell this indeed yeah it was smelly plastics may

01:44:09 indeed yeah it was smelly plastics may smell like ass plastic burning it's true that's quite a specific description to the description of smoke in the communal lobby yeah did they have a different smell definitely not the same at all and

01:44:25 smell definitely not the same at all and you described there as well that the stairwell was very hot you were hot in our faith hot and that's why I would feel it when when I were in it was very warm even-handed my feet I

01:44:39 it was very warm even-handed my feet I feel because I wasn't wearing shoes I feel that so so that's why I said it and was it hot this from when you first enter the stairs did you feel that same

01:44:50 enter the stairs did you feel that same temperature that same intensity of the heat he was yeah it was quite safe it was quite safe maybe more maybe less bodies were quite safe no no not that different

01:45:00 different not much you've described as you went down the stairs the smoke got thicker got if you feel the difference in the temperature no I didn't didn't didn't cross my mind I didn't because I started as I got in I

01:45:14 I didn't because I started as I got in I was really exhausted as well so I wasn't about focusing details but I just got that the first feeling but the rest of it to be honest with you if you ask me now if I go back there's a lot of things

01:45:27 now if I go back there's a lot of things maybe I didn't see there's a lot of things maybe I didn't noticed but I'm giving you what the first my eyes got into

01:45:36 into that's why I can give you know you've just told us just that you started getting and you didn't quite finish a sentence where you your feelings various hours I never forgot that I was very

01:45:48 hours I never forgot that I was very very closeted I couldn't even walk properly I was like unbalanced if I if you want me to describe that my balance it wasn't it wasn't normal the way I was walking it wasn't normal

01:46:00 the way I was walking it wasn't normal why was your balance not normal at all help I was very in I was very very end I mean I was walking like I looked up and going toss that's how I was feeling that

01:46:12 going toss that's how I was feeling that moment no did the smoke at any point also have any effect on you as well or

01:46:23 also have any effect on you as well or was it only your illness to be honest with you I'm not sure because you know the time I was in and I think I I've got already a smoke in my chest and already

01:46:36 already a smoke in my chest and already of course of course ends so I'm not sure that smoke did affect me more or not but I was pretty pretty if I was well and

01:46:47 I was pretty pretty if I was well and faith maybe I will tell you two different they're different things now but my aim is I cannot confirm the smoke affected me badly or does it because

01:47:00 affected me badly or does it because there is no conclusion on that

01:47:06 now if I could take you to paragraph 32 which is on page 8 of your statement

01:47:20 you see I got down to the ninth floor I found a disabled man my hair Coderre you described that he was a person that was known to you yes indeed in this paragraph you've described helping him

01:47:32 paragraph you've described helping him going down the stairs yes indeed you've just told us just now that you already had difficulty going down the stairs before you met him did you have difficulty walking I'm helping him down

01:47:43 difficulty walking I'm helping him down the stairs as well sir and how did you manage to go down the stairs of them to be honest with you if you want me to describe that moment which is he was was very difficult

01:47:55 which is he was was very difficult moment for me and for him I found him on the stairs holding the hand with and it was almost like you know hanging it's

01:48:07 was almost like you know hanging it's not even standing and it was I remember I saw was the clutches in his hand I can't carry him I couldn't carry him I

01:48:19 can't carry him I couldn't carry him I just put my hand around him and I knew I said to him in Arabic I want me to describe it to you in Arabic white coin in English and if you can give it in English in English okay so I say to him

01:48:32 English in English okay so I say to him we're going I'm gonna go together down that's the only word he was in mind he come up for my my mind we were bit down I was going down when we reach whenever

01:48:46 I was going down when we reach whenever which I think tell for central I'm not sure and I said to him I need to get and if you get hurt so stay here there's somebody for me they come back to you he

01:48:59 somebody for me they come back to you he said no worries in Arabic go so I want I want to treat stairs to the lobby and I saw formally his family down having

01:49:13 saw formally his family down having having a conversation with five fighters ok if I can just take you back a little bit in that account you've said firstly

01:49:25 bit in that account you've said firstly that you've met him at the 9th floor how did you notice the mindful just mention mine floor because he's the way I was going down so I feel like I walk down quite a lot from 15 so it

01:49:38 I walk down quite a lot from 15 so it was a coincidence what I wasn't that sure I just mentioned nine because later on I found out my lives in nine flow so I told myself might be I found him in nine flow so I have to mention it to

01:49:49 nine flow so I have to mention it to describe where is I thought maybe I found him in that flow so I have to describe it the way how he is let's first say that you're not sure I wasn't sure okay and when you were walking down the

01:50:02 and when you were walking down the stairs with him how exactly did you support each other down the stairs I was I put my hand to I put my hand under his shoulder and then I hold the left I hold

01:50:15 shoulder and then I hold the left I hold him in his hand left hand and we won't slow very slow he wasn't having it was very difficult for him I was panicking he was panicking I was lost he was I think he was in a situation maybe he

01:50:27 think he was in a situation maybe he could be worse than me he's got he's got a permanent disability so me I've got ends a temporary one so maybe he was like it wasn't a very sensitive

01:50:40 like it wasn't a very sensitive situation for him do you remember anyone going past you on the stairs for new earth mr. Cadell sorry ii do you remember anybody overtaking yeah yeah I believe that is yeah I believe

01:50:53 yeah I believe that is yeah I believe there is people went through through the stairs yeah how many people do you remember there's one I will never forget you he went down like a wind it was exactly like a wind I can't describe

01:51:08 exactly like a wind I can't describe yeah I can't describe I can't describe him I haven't bought what I feel like even what maybe in my left side but it

01:51:20 even what maybe in my left side but it was like a wind it was powerful run very powerful Ronnie I was surprised was there anybody else that went past I believe so the idea I think there's a

01:51:31 believe so the idea I think there's a couple of people um I'm not sure but I think I believe yeah there is a couple of people I wasn't focusing the march on details but I had a feeling like that is

01:51:43 details but I had a feeling like that is people went out bar was focusing what in my situation is and that's the focus the biggest focus elf is the problem RV now my problem and his problem so I wasn't that focused

01:51:55 his problem so I wasn't that focused around me what's going on really now you said that you've left him you told us that you've left him on the

01:52:06 you told us that you've left him on the second or third floor and that's when you went ahead just before we come to that point if I can refer you on page nine to paragraph 34 of your statement yeah sure you said when we got to level

01:52:20 yeah sure you said when we got to level four I noticed the fire door from the stairwell to the lobby was wide open and that was also the case at levels three and two and on these three floors for three and two you think that you're not

01:52:32 three and two you think that you're not sure there was water on the floor do you still recall this as the stairwell door being open there was yes and did you continue past that door yes indeed and do you remember what was holding

01:52:43 and do you remember what was holding that door open he was a host there was a hostess yeah and do you know how far opened that door was he was wide open wide open wide open all the way open all

01:52:55 wide open wide open all the way open all the way to the wall okay and how was the hose holding that it was it was I think I believe you from not going to make mistake in here because I believe

01:53:06 mistake in here because I believe there's the host about to about to and there was in the middle of between the between the frame of the door so there

01:53:18 between the frame of the door so there was two hoses yes side-by-side yeah in the frame of the door yes something that right yes victim and this was on the fourth floor did you see any smoke at that floor I haven't I

01:53:30 any smoke at that floor I haven't I haven't noticed any I haven't noticed any smoke basically just give me that question I haven't noticed that I didn't I don't I don't believe ie I don't believe I see any smoke and was this the

01:53:43 believe I see any smoke and was this the first door to lobby that you saw open the first thought of the lobby I saw open now going to the next level you've mentioned this also at levels 3 & 2 do

01:53:54 mentioned this also at levels 3 & 2 do you I

01:53:54 you I clear in your mind that there was two more daughters there I'll open after this fourth floor here you was I think I found the firefighters I'm not sure I find the mat in one second floor I think

01:54:07 find the mat in one second floor I think it was three or two firefighters that hadn't they were sitting I think he was sitting in the floor and I just got Boston where exactly did you see this

01:54:20 Boston where exactly did you see this five I think he wasn't dead for if I'm not mistaken awful I think it was still fool yeah I'm not that sure honestly to give you that final answer to that but definitely there was firefighter des did

01:54:32 definitely there was firefighter des did not end up in the place where they sitting in the stairs he was owned the door was open and he was sitting by the door not inside the lobby is the holy way the small one that's what you were

01:54:45 way the small one that's what you were sitting okay so next yes indeed no you said on your statements are that they had masks on is that right I think yeah I think they were marks if the masks I

01:54:57 I think they were marks if the masks I think you've normally say Bob I believe so yeah he was wearing masks did you try - no I didn't did you ask them for help

01:55:08 - no I didn't did you ask them for help no I didn't and do you remember you've mentioned that you left mr. mahir Kadare yes I did after it was it after this point that you'd seen the firefighters

01:55:19 point that you'd seen the firefighters that you left him yeah I'm not sure if I left him before what we went through with me - through the second second or third floor but I don't think Mary was with me in

01:55:32 but I don't think Mary was with me in that moment when there was firefighters in corridor I think I left him behind the second part of the stairs maybe the second part of the stairs I left him that but definitely I'm not

01:55:43 I left him that but definitely I'm not sure you were fearless with me but I have a feeling it wasn't with me at that moment that's why I won't try to say haven't think it wasn't that moment he wasn't with me and did you find anybody

01:55:54 wasn't with me and did you find anybody to help mr. Qadir yes I did yes where did you find people - when I were out I had I had you know the inside at the bar

01:56:05 had I had you know the inside at the bar inside I had conversations and voices so I looked at when I see who I saw love firefighters and the lobby so I went

01:56:17 firefighters and the lobby so I went down when I went down I had the woman she was talking in Arabic and she was saying can I say in Arabic so you okay

01:56:28 saying can I say in Arabic so you okay with it

01:56:29 with it you can if you want to also said in English of course what she was saying zaji for Zhu Jie Marie Lou Jim Wallwork the clergy bouzouki that's the words you

01:56:41 the clergy bouzouki that's the words you were saying - my husband is disabled his upstairs is disabled please God bring him - I think that's the word she used if I'm not mistaken and she was keeping

01:56:53 if I'm not mistaken and she was keeping talking in Arabic and then when I reach when I saw them having a conversation I said to them I said to her in Arabic no way your husband he was with me we come down together

01:57:04 down together and it's not far want me to keep going um if I can pause you there is the money if we can be showing the CCTV still inq five series four eight five

01:57:20 now this is a picture CCTV still taken from gram photos Levias at 1:30 509 was taken on the 14th of June can you

01:57:33 taken on the 14th of June can you identify there's a number of firefighters that we can see there and some people that are not identifier fighters can you identify any of the people that are not firefighters in that

01:57:44 people that are not firefighters in that picture in that moment I couldn't see the his daughter in turn now how come I can't remember his daughter but only

01:57:56 can't remember his daughter but only remember his wife but definitely see why she was there but I never talk I forget his daughter I never notice her she was standing by the firefighters mr. no I'm

01:58:10 standing by the firefighters mr. no I'm just opposed to their show for as a matter of record yes can you identify the other person the man that's not a firefighter in that pic that's me that's just that's me yeah

01:58:22 pic that's me that's just that's me yeah okay and just for the record are you can you describe where you're standing within this picture I was standing by the toe and giving them information and where is my hair and why I left him and

01:58:35 where is my hair and why I left him and the state is with madman's his disability and I explained to them worries and why I left him but I didn't give them 100% support while I left him

01:58:48 give them 100% support while I left him I told him maybe the second or third full bar he's definitely over there please can you get him down and I said to his wife don't worry he's just here it's not it's not it's not farfel so

01:59:01 it's not it's not it's not farfel so this way you remember it was this the way this conversations taken listen Steve told us yes indeed but I cannot see it just another one too I cannot see his wife in this picture I see only the

01:59:12 his wife in this picture I see only the girl there girl yeah just to confirm is mr. Cadiz daughter that your phone to the door - is she the person wearing grey in the picture yes indeed okay

01:59:35 now I could just

01:59:47 after this conversation is it correct that you left the the tower yes I did and is it there that you met receipt you met your wife will she die early outside

01:59:59 met your wife will she die early outside the tower that's how you tell me you okay

02:00:02 okay no misstep money I don't have any further questions for you at this moment but if we may have a few minutes I believe there might be further questions from others yes well it may be that

02:00:13 from others yes well it may be that after the reflection there might be one or two more questions so well I have a five minute break now I have to ask you please not to talk to anyone about your evidence on your that's the room and if

02:00:25 evidence on your that's the room and if you got good with the hour sure she'll look after you and we all come back at 4 o clock see whether there's any more to ask thank you thank you very much

02:00:44 good four o'clock please

02:12:10 well one or two questions let's miss asking that money to come back in

02:12:35 Thank You us I think a couple of questions that show yes for just a few brief questions messed up money fact you can first be shown inq five zeros for eight one

02:12:57 now to explain this as a CCTV still with an adjuster time of 1 34 22 on the 14th of June

02:13:06 of June now the person that's shown in the picture you can't see their head unfortunately but do you recognize their the clothing of the person that's shown in the picture I haven't seen in this

02:13:18 in the picture I haven't seen in this picture before and I was quite surprised I was really shocked honestly and I thought of myself how come I forget that moment I found a lady by the door when I

02:13:33 moment I found a lady by the door when I was getting out from stairs and she was she was I think a little bit wet it was water in her face and she was shaking

02:13:45 water in her face and she was shaking and she saw me the de mazing thing about this moment when she saw me I was myself I was out like walking like that and she

02:13:56 I was out like walking like that and she groped me in a way and I hold her as well in a way like she was worried but she was worried more for me that's why when I saw that picture and in my

02:14:09 when I saw that picture and in my statement I didn't mention that and I totally totally forget that moment that's why I was shocked when I saw it when I was in tears because that morning

02:14:21 when I was in tears because that morning the lady coming out would me it was very important moment but afterward when I was thinking and you know going through my mind that moment I was exhausted and

02:14:33 my mind that moment I was exhausted and I left a man behind me thinking how I can get help so I was myself was focused in one thing my brain capacity doesn't take more than that in that moment so

02:14:45 take more than that in that moment so she walked with me and then she walked down the stairs with me it was I hope I'm gonna be her in future because what she did even she was panicking the way

02:14:56 she did even she was panicking the way she's the way out she grabbed me he was very touching and it was very I don't know how to thank her and going down the stairs just my head is get hacked

02:15:08 my head is get hacked the snus in my talk at Mannion did you only remember that insert when you saw one I saw the picture yet when I saw the picture if you can also be shown inq

02:15:19 picture if you can also be shown inq five zeros for 8 - so before we actually show inq four five zeros for 8 - you've given us I apologize mr. trudeau so if

02:15:31 given us I apologize mr. trudeau so if you can go back to iron q50 is for 8 1 I believe us mr. money my question had actually been if you had recognized the

02:15:42 actually been if you had recognized the person or the clothing in that picture and I know it's obviously triggered a memory for you which you've explained for the inquiry today but just as a

02:15:53 for the inquiry today but just as a matter of record do you recognize who is the person depicted in them no no I don't know who or she well there's two people shown in

02:16:04 or she well there's two people shown in the picture yeah that's me yes sorry it was that question sorry I'm confusing all the time I could have been more

02:16:15 all the time I could have been more specifically mr. money so you recognized one of the people in the picture and not that yes indeed yeah and if we can now see inq five zeros for eight - this is a

02:16:27 see inq five zeros for eight - this is a picture taken with an adjusted time of 13424 seconds this is shortly after the first picture that we've just seen which was at 1:30 for 22 seconds and again do

02:16:39 was at 1:30 for 22 seconds and again do you recognize the two people in that picture yes that's one that was me on the left and the lady and if you look at the details how she was holding me that's that's why I was talking before

02:16:50 that's that's why I was talking before he show me this is the way how she was holding me coming down and I found a hand that though there and then we went together and she rolled me like it's like you know her son father it's the

02:17:03 like you know her son father it's the way how I feel and I just triggered my memory when I saw the picture it was it was quite touching mr. Lee you've just gestured to the screen in front of you said you found her at that door there do you think you could just show us for the

02:17:15 think you could just show us for the articles here for the screen to your left or the larger screen oh yeah of course here where do you where did you first meet this way this yeah and how far down did she help you all the way

02:17:27 far down did she help you all the way down I think I believe and then when we went down when I saw the firefighter has just you know keep going to the firefighters and to be honest in that moment I don't know what I did it's like memory loss I don't know what

02:17:40 it's like memory loss I don't know what the lady gone you don't know where she went I don't know what she want okay I mean maybe she went out well if we can go back to ban the CCTV still that showed you at the bottom of the tower if we can go to inq 486

02:18:04 now if we can take I've shown you this CCTV style one that's similar to this one a little bit early and I'd asked you about the conversation you described a conversation taking place so with mr.

02:18:16 conversation taking place so with mr. Qadir wife and then you've also identified his daughter in the CCTV still yes sir we've applied reductions to this photo to protect the identity of

02:18:27 to this photo to protect the identity of a minor child but when you take it from me that behind the minor child there is mr. Qadir wife that would you would be able to see the two of them in this still that is unredacted you've

02:18:39 still that is unredacted you've described the conversation with both of them yeah I believe I believe in that moment I'd wanted to I believe in that moment I was looking at a man the wife

02:18:50 moment I was looking at a man the wife which is facing the firefighters if you see my face is directed to to the girl but I think is why she was standing there I'm not mistaken maybe she was

02:19:02 there I'm not mistaken maybe she was telling that yes that's correct I was talking to her that's correct in the unredacted still you can see this you see people there and you have structures why the reductions and that stone yeah well mr. money I just have

02:19:14 stone yeah well mr. money I just have one final question for you you've provided a statement that has been of great assistance to the inquiry and I'm also grateful for the evidence that you've given today is there anything further that you remember about the

02:19:26 further that you remember about the events of their night above what has been put in your state and statement or that you've described that you think it's important for the Chairman to know

02:19:38 just I would like to I have a speech half prepared if mr. chairman give me the opportunity to read out yes

02:19:50 give me the opportunity to read out yes you should have a chance to say thank you I thank you not too long not too long but basically that it's not too long I know you normally I talk too much right so yeah you know basically I I've

02:20:07 right so yeah you know basically I I've been advised to shut it up so it was very good advice to take and he told me you have to leave it for and he taught me how to leave it for Phase two you if they call you back so I shot it out for four do you respect

02:20:21 so I shot it out for four do you respect respect to you so I don't want to keep you longer and if you can't give me yes because you say

02:20:45 mr. chairman please give me the opportunity to read my statement without interruption please the survivors were not given an opportunity to give

02:20:57 not given an opportunity to give evidence at the memorial and I agree with that as it was for the bereaved to pay tribute to their loved ones I just

02:21:08 pay tribute to their loved ones I just want to say some very important things they have been on my mind and my heart for so long and these are very serious

02:21:19 for so long and these are very serious matters which I have been bothering me very everyday and I feel like it I feel like I need I feel I feel I need to they

02:21:33 like I need I feel I feel I need to they need to come out for my chest sorry - my deepest condolences to the families

02:21:45 deepest condolences to the families friends and neighbors of Grantville tower for their losses and so especially the bereaved all lost their loved ones for the past four hundred ninety three

02:21:58 for the past four hundred ninety three days you have suffered the most in manageable pain and spend many days and night in tears and we will never

02:22:10 night in tears and we will never understand your losses before the tragic fire we were happy families in confortable homes within living

02:22:21 confortable homes within living community we were self-sufficient and independent we lived our lives as a community despite having a difficult

02:22:33 community despite having a difficult local authority advocating

02:22:39 it was a quiet life with peace and privacy and we talked safety and dividual II with dreamed and hard

02:22:53 dividual II with dreamed and hard aspirations individually and together we worked hard and well and we were and were integrated and established in our

02:23:04 were integrated and established in our community we end high we end high and when we got there we end up even higher

02:23:20 our survival instincts kicked in to our concerns for our families friends and neighbors

02:23:28 neighbors we were we were left to our own devices we were abandoned by those we pay taxes to you to those we trusted and appointed

02:23:40 to you to those we trusted and appointed to position of power and influences we were betrayed and humiliated left to watch our families friends and neighbors

02:23:52 watch our families friends and neighbors perché Tiamo failed to turn up and take part and the emergency response just like Kensington and Chelsea counsel

02:24:05 intended instead the community stepped in it was and still is the generosity of the British public but had and still

02:24:17 the British public but had and still helped in Grantham victims and bereaved

02:24:21 our local authorities have let us down the helmet of LFP were brave men and women who risk their own lives to save

02:24:35 women who risk their own lives to save ours the suit of LFP let us down David our bkc did not even consider how the

02:24:46 our bkc did not even consider how the new flammable clothing would impact on our safety our bkc left convert our victim down in

02:24:57 our bkc left convert our victim down in more ways than you can imagine our bkc committed gross negligence before during and after plan felt our

02:25:09 before during and after plan felt our tragedy we are still awaiting justice it should not take a serious fire in which many are killed before all reasonable

02:25:22 many are killed before all reasonable steps are taken to minimize the risk six people died in Lochner house in 2009

02:25:37 people died in Lochner house in 2009 and the government failed to act and make changes to regulations and that will have stopped a fire like that from

02:25:49 will have stopped a fire like that from happening again tonight we know people are going to sleep in homes with dangerous clothing on them the

02:26:00 dangerous clothing on them the refreshment turned our home into death drop we know now that the contractor put profit before lives it's an industry but

02:26:13 profit before lives it's an industry but broken and acting criminally it's a vital the police investigation and the public inquiry and cover everything that led to killing of so many and now the

02:26:26 led to killing of so many and now the government should actually act so that this never happen again one important point policies building regulations and fire safety regulations all need to be

02:26:39 fire safety regulations all need to be reviewed landlord property rights have been self guarded are the expenses of the talents lives that has got to change

02:26:53 the talents lives that has got to change I repeat that has got to change we will suffered great losses as a tenant because of the policies building

02:27:05 tenant because of the policies building regulations and fire safety policies which have been downgraded over many years we are still waiting for justice for the 72 dead victims and their

02:27:23 for the 72 dead victims and their families while those responsible have changed department and titles but there

02:27:34 changed department and titles but there are still the same individual responsible for the tragedy with the same level the same level of content control and position of power we want

02:27:49 control and position of power we want this inquiry to focus on building our confidence we want to know more about the plan and we want to be consulted before decisions are made we want to be

02:28:03 before decisions are made we want to be at the heart of this process that is where we belong justice will be served sooner or later one day thank you very

02:28:14 sooner or later one day thank you very much mr. well mr. money thank you very much for playing your part in the process by evidence I'm sure I don't need to explain how important it is that

02:28:25 need to explain how important it is that we learn about what was going on in the building at different times and you've had a terrible experience although I think would be congratulated in the course of your own escape or stopping to

02:28:37 course of your own escape or stopping to help someone else who was less fortunate and new perhaps thank you anyway we are very grateful to you thank you very much indeed take yourself all right thank you we've made together the ushers and Sheila Carlton

02:29:00 no mr. chairman those are our witnesses for today our next witness is listed for Tuesday tomorrow morning yes thank you very much I mean we were going to read some statements but the time is against

02:29:11 some statements but the time is against us on that I think it is indeed yes all right

02:29:14 right so we'll break now and resume tomorrow at ten o'clock yes thank you very much